TO clarify my 9:40:37 post- I should have said "why do people think that the expansion of our modern idea of "family" necessarily involves the degradation of the classic ideas of family?"

The way I wrote it, it could be interpreted that I share that view.

Alexandra
Eskobar, you're really out of it. I gave my son Gerber cereal and some juice. (He's 18 months old.)

Sure...

And I am very happy with my marriage, thank you very much. And I much prefer spending time with my son than running the 40-hour rat race.

Yeah, you just keep telling yourself that, and it will all be well...

Tourney, no, I just take offense when someone contends that they are better off than I am because they were raised in a different environment. I was merely calling him to prove his assertion (which, admittedly, is unprovable over the internet). I would imagine that if someone was to put you in a similar situation, you'd react in a similar fashion. It happens all the time on Fark ("All southerners are idiots!!" "No, I grew up in the south and I'm educated!!", etc.).

I liked Pathighgate's first set of comments. Although I don't agree with him, at least he approached it without the blind hatred of other posters.

Noone has to like it, but people should look at it more objectively and give gay people fair rights. I don't think anyone could reasonably argue that having a child raised by the state is better than in the care of a loving gay couple that have to fight tooth and nail for the right to care for a child. Don't get me wrong though. Not all gay couples should be able to adopt a child, but neither should all heterosexual couples.

One of the biggest factors (other than religion) is homophobia is that guys are afraid of being hit on by another guy. What about girls who have to deal with sexual harassment in the workplace. It may make you cringe and leave you with an uncomfortable feeling, but that doesn't mean that straight lifestyles should be considered wrong either.

And as far as the religion aspect goes, don't get me started ....

Eskobar, you wanna come over sometime? Apparently you know a LOT about my life--NOT.

Methinks you're just jealous or something. You seem to think I can't be happy being married to the same guy for nearly 10 years and being a mother. Got news for you. I am happy with my husband and I love my son very much.

Leave it to homosexuality-supporters to totally diss anyone who's *gasp* happy with a "traditional" family. Ann Coulter is right--liberals resort to first-grade behavior, i.e. name-calling and putting people down, when proved wrong.

Let's kick this up another notch.

#9 happened to my girlfriend; although her folks weren't warring, they were definitely bitter. The whole thing came apart after she moved out last year, and everyone is happier as a result.

Flame on.

I disagree with Alexandra on some of her views, but I fully support her choice to have the type of family she wants. Weren't you just railing against people who wanted to dictate how others live their lives, eskobar?

Alexandra: "Ann Coulter is right"

You were winning 'till you said that.

eskobar, I disagree with Alexandra on pretty much everything, but I think she should be able to let her live the type of life she chooses. So call a truce, maybe?

Now, if we could get her to extend that same courtesy to others, we'd be doing pretty well.

how is a couple of gay guys supposed to talk to their straight 'daughter' about boys as she grows up

"How are a couple...." you mean? /Grammar Nazism

They will probably do a better job of it than I will as a single dad who isn't interested in boys. Like it or not the old fashioned nuclear family is dead for reasons other than homosexuality.

No parents are perfect. My parents raised us in a normal nuclear family environment and my sister went lesbo and I'm probably going to be a single dad forever. So what went wrong there?

One of the biggest factors (other than religion) is homophobia is that guys are afraid of being hit on by another guy. What about girls who have to deal with sexual harassment in the workplace.

I said something very similar to a cow-orker yesterday who asked how I would react if a guy hit on me. Hell, women deal with passes from guys all the time--if you want to know how to properly handle a guy making a pass, ask a women.

Of course, "women" was a typo.

I meant to type "womyn"

</evil leftist bleeding-heart pinko freak>

Alexandra I am quite curious, though, as to why you think that increased social and legal acceptance of homosexuality contributes to the downfall of the traditional family.

Ann Coulter is right--liberals resort to first-grade behavior

That's funny, considering that this is the woman that advocates killing political opponents to terrorize their constituency into silence.

Alexandra

Eskobar, you wanna come over sometime? Apparently you know a LOT about my life--NOT.

If you wanna call it a life, sure, whatever...

Methinks you're just jealous or something. You seem to think I can't be happy being married to the same guy for nearly 10 years and being a mother. Got news for you. I am happy with my husband and I love my son very much.

Why should I be jealous when I have all that myself?

Leave it to homosexuality-supporters to totally diss anyone who's *gasp* happy with a "traditional" family. Ann Coulter is right--liberals resort to first-grade behavior, i.e. name-calling and putting people down, when proved wrong.

Ann Coulter? Well, you just proved what I suspected all along. Now I really do pity you...

LawTalkingGuy
I disagree with Alexandra on some of her views, but I fully support her choice to have the type of family she wants. Weren't you just railing against people who wanted to dictate how others live their lives, eskobar?

I just felt like giving her a little of her own medicine. If she's going to belittle my family, she'd better be prepared to take the same crap...

/stooping to their low level, 'cos somebody has to

The ad right under the Fark logo right now:

"Single Christian Network", right beside "Executive Gay Dating".

What perfect timing.

bubbaprog, thanks.

I'm sure they'll turn out great.

Sure, MyrnaMinkoff, I've made my point...

Just because I say someone is right about something does not mean I completely agree with them. Especially since I long since made that observation about liberals myself!

You know, gays should stop their asinine whining. If anyone's being completely dissed, it's people who support the "traditional" family.

I've flipped through the cable channels and where was it, Jenny Jones, where they have that boot camp for kids--the kids who walk all over their mothers? Common denominator--absent father. I'm not saying kids of single parents will all turn out bad, but their chance of doing so is greater.

What's wrong with wanting to be a homemaker? I mean picture it...wife makes things looking nice for husband when he comes home tired from work, maybe later on husband takes wife out and tells her how much he appreciates her...why do people think that's not a life? Yeah I have a full-time job but I'm on LOA because of a bum foot...but I'm enjoying being on leave because I have plenty of time for my son, and I can find something where I can work from home.

If slaving away 40 hours a week is "liberation," may I never see bondage.

Alexandra: You yourself resorted to an attack on Liberals when the arguement didn't go your waY. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

If slaving away 40 hours a week is "liberation," may I never see bondage.

I just don't see what being a wage slave has to do with kinky sex. Try and stay on topic, won't you?

3Horn: I suspect someone is going to answer that it is because their little book has told them to love everyone, even the horrible gay people, and it's their christian duty to help them see the error of their ways.
Usually they don't seem like very loving people though, so I'm not sure that's the real reason.
Maybe it's because people in general have an instinct to fear that which they don't understand. As Alexandra demonstrated above, this sort of person feels that acceptance of something different somehow implies an attack on their own way of life. It doesn't make sense, but there you have it.

Ann Coulter is right--liberals resort to first-grade behavior, i.e. name-calling and putting people down, when proved wrong.

Ann Coulter makes her living resorting to first-grade behavior, i.e. name-calling and putting people down. And she's never right. Her argument is consistently the either-or fallacy (no middle) argument.

She's a clever lawyer who knows how to make money by capitalizing on the current fad of Liberal-Bashing. She no more believes in the canned values she parrots than I do.

BTW, my son (18 mo) sits at the table with the rest of the family and eats his own food. He's NEVER eaten baby food (yuk). And we love him and take care of him not because Someone told us to, but because morality can exist outside of politico-religionist dogma.

You know, gays should stop their asinine whining.

Followed by whining....

Seriously, just being attacked on a Fark forum does not mean that you're oppressed in real life. If you think your traditional family is less accepted than a gay lifestyle, I invite you to come to Oklahoma.

I agree that you shouldn't be attacked for living as a homemaker. It's not a choice I'd make, but it's your choice. But if you don't want to be attacked, maybe you should rethink your attacks on others' lifestyles. It's quite hypocritical.

Alexandra: I'm confused, you say you choose to be a homemaker, but you're on a LOA from a full time job due to a bum foot. So I take it the bum foot isn't bad enough to keep you from working and that your boss was nice enough to let you take a LOA anyway (nice guy, I have a hard enough time taking a sick day)? Otherwise how would it be your choice? Just nitpicking.

getFARKED

Males and females are different, a male parent will go a long way in teaching a child to relate to the world as a man should, the same applies with females.

This statement is rather absurd. "Relate to the world as a man should"? What, exactly, does that mean? You're saying that a child's gender role needs to be impressed on him (or her) by their same-sex parent. But that gender role is not inherent -- it changes over time. What men and women are 'supposed' to do in their lives now is distinctly different from 50, 100, and 1000 years ago.

I was raised in a single-parent family with no male role-model, and I turned out just fine. In a stable, monogamous, heterosexual relationship. Well educated. Well paid. Highly ethical. What, exactly, did someone like me miss out on by having a father?

I didn't get to throw a baseball around as a ten year old? True. But it didn't stop me from doing well in my sport of choice (soccer).

I had to teach myself how to shave? Also true, but I survived.

I didn't know how to approach and court women 'properly'? False. I do better with women than most of my friends, perhaps *because* of the fact that I didn't have a typical 'macho, emotionally distant American father' to show me how to act like a man.

I didn't learn how to be a father to a child? True, but my mother taught me how to be a *parent*. Children don't need a mother that does X Y and Z and a father that does A B and C. They need a parent (or parents) that do them all. So long as ABC and XYZ are done, children turn out fine. It's easier with two people due to the bulk of things that need to be done, but the idea that a man is needed to provide certain things and a woman to provide other things in the parenting process is absurd.

MikeWeath: Finances dictate that I have a job. My LOA is a paid leave. It's actually workman's comp but that's another story (there's a bit of a fight going on over that). If it weren't for finances I wouldn't work outside the home at all. If I could work from home I would.

DPF: So my 18-month-old is just learning to eat with a fork and spoon. He eats table food too...I just feel that Graduates food is better for him at this point. Babies develop at their own pace.

And those of you who accuse me of first-grade behavior...I don't resort to babyish name-calling. I simply call things the way I see it. Flame all you want, it's not going to change my way of thinking.

OrphanedWombat: There's a right way and a wrong way. I just hate when people support the wrong way and add to it by attacking the right way.

I've said all I'm going to say on this thread. And I'm not visiting it anymore. No point.

If you're reading this and keeping "score" (in terms of votes, not necessarily debating skills), I would just like to quickly put in my $0.02. I will not, however, be participating in the discussion.

I'm happy with the court's decision.
Gay marriages and adoption are fine.

/What's wrong with wanting to be a homemaker? I mean picture it...wife makes things looking nice for husband when he comes home tired from work, maybe later on husband takes wife out and tells her how much he appreciates her...why do people think that's not a life?/

So if you simply exchange the husband for another woman, does that mean it suddenly lacks any value? I see nothing wrong with being a homemaker.

"Finances dictate that I have a job. .... If it weren't for finances I wouldn't work outside the home at all."

I think that's generaly why most people work, beause they need the money. Do you think if people didn't financialy NEED to work the still would? Anyway you answered my question, it wqsn't your choice, it just worked out that way.

There's a right way and a wrong way.

You're right, every single issue is black and white. I'm sure glad we have you here to guide us. Otherwise us stupid heathens would be living in the middle ages.

Sheesh.

www.gayegypt.com/gaycairo.html

CFM:
Great Article. I am going to start using "Grand Moff Scalia" in conversation.

I still don't understand how supporting gay families is the equivalent of "dissing" the traditional family.

If it's already been explained, I apologize.

Just found out that our insurance does not cover same sex partners. Neato. Im thinking cause most of them have aids...

I'd just like to pop back in to thank LawTalkingGuy for being the only person to try and answer my question:

How do you define a man?

(good answer, by the way :)

2003-06-30 04:55:49 AM yodamasterjedi
BTW, women in Egypt hate gays & lesbians more than they hate
.
.ah.
.
uhm.
.
oops,
.
Thank god I held my words at the last minute. I almost broke the peace treaty of 1977.

Racist, sexist, AND homophobic!
We've hit the trifecta here, folks!

/irritated with Muslims who are outraged at the West's seeming intolerance of Islamic values, when they then turn around and display even more intolerance toward Western values.

Cola - I might be wrong, but your own country dawdled about it until 1995.

Give us some time! Sheesh.

There are a couple of lesbians who are living next door to my mother, they have been together for 15 years. That is longer than a lot of my friends marriages have lasted. One of them recently adopted a six year old girl who was taken fom a household where her mother neglected her and her father abused her. I have no problem with her being adopted into a loving environment where she has two people to care for her health and well being. They sure do a hell of a lot better job that the sperm and egg donors that spawned her. I was actually pretty surprised that they were allowed to adopt her, I don't believe that it is common practice to allow gays/lesbians to adopt here in Oklahoma.

I was raised in a single parent household by my mother. I had no "strong male figure" in my life. I turned out very well (not concieted, just convinced). I believe that being raised in a house hold of women has given me a deep respect for women that many of my friends male friends who were raised in traditional two parent housholds don't have.

As far as the gay agenda goes, i have it on very good authority from several gay friends of mine that they recieve a lovely toaster cozy when they convert three young boys to the gay lifestyle.

/on topic

getFARKED

When you have been out in the real world, and no longer have mommy to wipe you ass for you, for a few years, talk to me then. Until then, STFU. You seen to have issues with your single parent upbringing. I had one and it was by no means perfect. However, I have an ex gf who was raised by her mother and her lesbian lover. She is straight, well adjusted, and openminded. Would that we had more like her in this world.

yodamasterjedi :
In American we also find child molesters to be worthy of a slow death. Which would mean your precious prophet would deserve to die. After all, doesn't your Koran tell us that he married a girl at 6 and then farked her when she was 9?

Also I wonder how you would address the fact that the Koran not only promises 70 virgins if you enter Paradise, but gives you the option of having 70 unspoiled youths (male virgins) if you want those instead?

Please enlighten us ye representative of the religion of "peace".