A-theists (in keeping with the Daylight-Saving Time postscript) don't want to take over anything. There are people who apply rational thought, Ockham's Razor, and falsifiability to any claims.

And there are other people who were told by their parents that if you're 'good' while you're living, Santa Claus brings you presents when you're young, and Jesus brings you a present when you die. Most adults have shaken the Santa Claus lie, but they still believe the Jesus one.

The King James Bible is a great book. I taught myself to read from it at age 2 (from family bible study, Mom read aloud while I sat on her lap). I think everyone should be exposed to it, but the danger is that impressionable youts might get the idea that's it's real.

Yes, over 2800 years of cultural heritage will fade if folks don't put faith in Yahweh...

English is better with fewer idioms.
Try to spend a day communicating only in sentences that can be transliterated sensibly in 5 languages. You'd be amazed how much it clears up your thinking and cuts down insubstantial nonsense.

staplermofo: English is better with fewer idioms.
Try to spend a day communicating only in sentences that can be transliterated sensibly in 5 languages. You'd be amazed how much it clears up your thinking and cuts down insubstantial nonsense.

And yet, as a trade language, and based in deep storytelling traditions, it excels, especially in that it can quickly incorporate words and even entire phrases from other languages and still be mutually intelligible, and support a vast array of dialects. It is a wonderfully adaptive tongue, which is why it's still around, despite invasion after invasion, wave after wave of conquerers and rulers from afar. That rich history forged English into a versatile trade language, and expressive enough to support arts and poetry.

hubiestubert:
And yet, as a trade language, and based in deep storytelling traditions, it excels, especially in that it can quickly incorporate words and even entire phrases from other languages and still be mutually intelligible, and support a vast array of dialects. It is a wonderfully adaptive tongue, which is why it's still around, despite invasion after invasion, wave after wave of conquerers and rulers from afar. That rich history forged English into a versatile trade language, and expressive enough to support arts and poetry.

I don't think that's particularly true. Modern English wasn't firmly in place until the mid 1500s, and I don't think England was significantly occupied or conquered between now and then.
I don't think English dialects are particularly mutually intelligible either; I certainly can't understand Indians, 50¢ or Hong Kongians comfortably.
It's not a bad language, but having as many speakers as it does, doing all the exciting things they do, well... it's more force of numbers than it is any great thing about English.

There aren't too many potential poets sitting around thinking "Gosh, I'd love to express myself poetically but I only know Chinese, and that language is worthless. Oh well, I guess I'll just mine coal."

itazurakko: And Chinese being not poetic? You have GOT to be kidding.

Chinese is the crappiest language I've ever taken, by far. They've had thousands of years and billions of people so I'm sure they've eked out some grace or beauty with it, but it's similar to how Michelangelo used a hammer and a pointy bit of metal to carve the Pieta.
It's such a clumsy, cumbersome, imprecise language, doing anything graceful with it is like a bear on a bicycle.

staplermofo: hubiestubert:
And yet, as a trade language, and based in deep storytelling traditions, it excels, especially in that it can quickly incorporate words and even entire phrases from other languages and still be mutually intelligible, and support a vast array of dialects. It is a wonderfully adaptive tongue, which is why it's still around, despite invasion after invasion, wave after wave of conquerers and rulers from afar. That rich history forged English into a versatile trade language, and expressive enough to support arts and poetry.

I don't think that's particularly true. Modern English wasn't firmly in place until the mid 1500s, and I don't think England was significantly occupied or conquered between now and then.
I don't think English dialects are particularly mutually intelligible either; I certainly can't understand Indians, 50¢ or Hong Kongians comfortably.
It's not a bad language, but having as many speakers as it does, doing all the exciting things they do, well... it's more force of numbers than it is any great thing about English.

There aren't too many potential poets sitting around thinking "Gosh, I'd love to express myself poetically but I only know Chinese, and that language is worthless. Oh well, I guess I'll just mine coal."

Our English today comes from roots in Old and Middle English. Our literary and storytelling traditions, as well as the influx of loan words, and adopted tales didn't end there either. English has been amazingly adaptive--especially when you look at how far its travelled and where it's taken root. It has numbers because of its adaptability.

The colonial efforts spread English, but in the Caribbean, in Africa, in Australia, in Hong Kong, you have a rich history in how English adapted to its new home. While there are many dialects and odd pidgins, most English speakers are mutually intelligible when you both decide to strip off the extra layers--be that Jamaicans, Aussies, folks from Hong Kong, Mainiacs, or folks from Minnesota. That ability to adapt to reinforce local ties is another strength for the tongue, and therein lies its utility. Strengthening what amount to tribal ties puts down communal roots. You can understand folks who speak another dialect, but you firmly place your ties and allegiances at the same time.

As for the idea that other languages aren't expressive, that is hardly the point being made. English is a tongue whose very fluidity and many shades of meaning in context lends itself well to the arts traditions that we've created around it. The ability to graft local words and phrases easily has expanded our vocabulary by leaps and bounds, and that gives us a huge palette to work with. Add to it, the many cultures that have adopted English and added their own traditions to the mix, and you have a tongue that is versatile for both business and pleasure.

itazurakko: But, how many 4-character idioms do you know? Old poems? Confucian lore that has been shrunk into a single word, that calls to mind the original stories? Words derived from obscure bits of Buddhist philosophy?

4 character idioms? You've gotta be kidding. They're just really old, they aren't meaningful or worth reading on their own. Yeah, Chinese has gobs of history, but history isn't poetry. Without history it's no different from throwing in phrases from the Simpsons in English.

Compare that to real poetry, where clarity, evocative descriptions; all the crap that allows the poem to stand on its own.

hubiestubert: As for the idea that other languages aren't expressive, that is hardly the point being made.

If you aren't saying English is significantly better than other languages, what is your point?

staplermofo: hubiestubert: As for the idea that other languages aren't expressive, that is hardly the point being made.

If you aren't saying English is significantly better than other languages, what is your point?

That atheism isn't going to rob the language of much. That even if the King James Bible were to disappear tomorrow and never to return, we would have just as rich a language.

When we stopped believing in Greek gods we stopped using the word Nemesis too.

itazurakko: Then I move to the US and people do the exact same thing in reverse.

Except we have verb tenses, causation is easily conveyed and we don't have to repeat verbs with adverbs.
And yes, English is a clumsy language. Native speakers screw it up all the time. We desperately need a gender neutral 3rd person pronoun and a verb for offering things. The grammar is all over the place and virtually all rules are broken regularly. I'd be surprised if anyone said it was as fluid as Spanish.

These are all things that people wouldn't complain about in Japanese. They don't have those problems.
Every language has its downsides. Being clear and concrete is a problem for Chinese.

staplermofo: English is better with fewer idioms.
Try to spend a day communicating only in sentences that can be transliterated sensibly in 5 languages. You'd be amazed how much it clears up your thinking and cuts down insubstantial nonsense.

Spend a day thinking in Balinese. You'll find that communicating in essentially one tense really frees up the day.

/Has happened, Happening, will happen later. No soon, no "in a few" no hurry, no "just missed it"

Oh, for heaven's sake... are these people serious?

My dad's an atheist, and even if Christianity ceased to exist tomorrow, he'd still probably be appalled if you couldn't find a bible anywhere.

There's a hell of a lot of literature you wouldn't fully appreciate unless you were at least somewhat versed in it.

In other words, yawn, fearmongering, etc.

/recovering Catholic
//agnostic
///humanist

Raging Brainer: And if all clocks become digital, we won't know what "clockwise" means!

It really does make more sense to use "dextrorotatory" and "levrorotatory" anyway.

Inflammable and flammable are the same thing?!?!?!? Oh hell!

syrynxx: impressionable youts



What's a "yout?"

Shadow Blasko: staplermofo: English is better with fewer idioms.
Try to spend a day communicating only in sentences that can be transliterated sensibly in 5 languages. You'd be amazed how much it clears up your thinking and cuts down insubstantial nonsense.

Spend a day thinking in Balinese.

Or Russian.

/you have to *think* in Russian.

xanadian: Shadow Blasko: staplermofo: English is better with fewer idioms.
Try to spend a day communicating only in sentences that can be transliterated sensibly in 5 languages. You'd be amazed how much it clears up your thinking and cuts down insubstantial nonsense.

Spend a day thinking in Balinese.

Or Russian.

/you have to *think* in Russian.

I thought about firing rear missile, but a cheese coney came out.

Oh, c'mon. We'll still let you use them. It's just literature, after all.