Weaver95: y'know what? I think that documentary might have gotten it right. A bunch of whiny well fed assholes decided to block Genetically modified food crops from getting to africa where a bunch of people were/are starving to death and it was all because the whiny well fed people didn't like the politics behind the technology that developed those crops.

If you honestly think that any crop would be able to wipe out hunger in Africa within a single decade, you're dumber than your choice of words makes you sound.

The anti-GM crowd are evil anti-science zealots who do more harm than a billion creationists all put together.

Silly Africans. You exist to be a political football for the left. If it's politically convenient to demonize DDT or genetically modified food, well, I hope you enjoy malaria and starving to death. It's for a greater cause. You understand.

There is plenty of food. The problem is getting it to the people who need it. This is a problem of politics and local warlords, not a lack of food.

I think Penn and Teller covered it best: The greens are farking wrong and they should be ashamed.

Norman Borlaug (new window)

blazemongr: Weaver95: y'know what? I think that documentary might have gotten it right. A bunch of whiny well fed assholes decided to block Genetically modified food crops from getting to africa where a bunch of people were/are starving to death and it was all because the whiny well fed people didn't like the politics behind the technology that developed those crops.

If you honestly think that any crop would be able to wipe out hunger in Africa within a single decade, you're dumber than your choice of words makes you sound.

You really think that there is no difference between "eliminating hunger in Africa" and "feeding more people than they could before?"

You're dumber than your choice of words make you sound.

Pretty much. If you want farmers to able to feed the world, we have to make better crops. Some of the stuff genetists do is a bit overzealous, but most of it is helpful.

blazemongr: If you honestly think that any crop would be able to wipe out hunger in Africa within a single decade, you're dumber than your choice of words makes you sound.

So obviously no one should try. Do everyone a favor and kill yourself.

blazemongr: Weaver95: y'know what? I think that documentary might have gotten it right. A bunch of whiny well fed assholes decided to block Genetically modified food crops from getting to africa where a bunch of people were/are starving to death and it was all because the whiny well fed people didn't like the politics behind the technology that developed those crops.

If you honestly think that any crop would be able to wipe out hunger in Africa within a single decade, you're dumber than your choice of words makes you sound.

The man who saved a billion lives would like to have a conversation with you.

Where their comments taken out of context? Did they lie to the camera crew so their statements are not false? Are they suggesting that the comments where taken out of context? (I didn't see that) If your problem is that the truth is getting out oh well, if this film is full all falsehoods that came out of your own mouth why did you say them?

Came here for all the "greenpeace" and "worldwide socialist state" derp.

/leaves satisfied as my daily quota of facepalm has already been met

How about how the greens have caused several million deaths by banning DDT from Africa, even though it is perfectly safe. They all read some stupid book called "Silent Spring" and decided to condemn all the poor africans to death because they were worried DDT might hurt birds.

The green movement is about money and destroying human life.

They're both right. The GM industry would wipe out local crops to make indigenous farmers dependent on them, and the indigenous crops are not enough to feed them adequately. There needs to be a third solution that doesn't turn them into slaves for their seed, nor cause them to starve. However by pushing the illusion that it's one side vs. the other, fear and tribal-defense-mechanisms of the brain prevent anyone from seeing the truth before their eyes.

Manfred J. Hattan:
The anti-GM crowd are evil anti-science zealots who do more harm than a billion creationists all put together.

Their opponents are predatory companies like Monsanto, whose use of GMO technology feeds no starving people, promotes no sustainable development, and alleviates no environmental damage.

Hell, I think GM technology is a great idea, and I still agree that the way it's used now is largely unnecessary at best, and very harmful at worst.

The reason I can't get behind the anti-GMO movement is because the whole damn lot of them know less about biology than your average fifth-grader, and many of their arguments reflect that. Since I'm a scientist, they probably consider me their natural enemy.

Expert estimations of food waste in the USA alone range from 25% to 40% to as much as 50% of all food produced.

There's plenty of food. But food is a weapon...rather, LACK of food is a weapon. And it's wielded as such every single day.

Go ask your friends from India what THEY think about Norman Borlaug and his Green Revolution. Penn Gilette can stick it up his fat ass.

If these people hadn't been starving all this time, there would be a couple billion of them now, and they'd for damn sure all be starving.

Africa is starving because of tribal warlords and backward thinking, not an actual lack of food.

Won't buy into GM for simple reason it's a racket. You have to buy your seeds from Monsanto every year. A farmer becomes an addict/prisoner of their system. It is actually ILLEGAL for them to retain seeds from this year's crop to plant next.

Greenpeace is at its core a political organisation with a socialist agenda. Most of the fundraising and frontline activity is aimed at people who mainly care about the ecology and so forth. These people who support Greenpeace tend to young, naive, idealistic, and exceedingly manipulable.

Greenpeace is bad because it's socialist, but evil because it exploits impressionable people (useful idiots) to achieve its goals.

Africa needs more people.

BRAVO!

This is why population control theorists are idiots, starvation doesn't reduce population, it increases it. If we really wanted to reduce their population we would give them all college educations

Boobiesontheside: Africa is starving because of tribal warlords and backward thinking, not an actual lack of food.

Having countries set up arbitrarily by white Europeans didn't help either.

Not to be that guy, but I'm not seeing the AMUSING here. Mass deaths from starvation comedy gold.

In the opposing camp, organisations such as the UN's environment programme based in Nairobi have produced their own research suggesting that organic practices can have better impact on African harvests.

They do have a better impact on harvests, but they're far more labour intensive. The result of this is that farmers can't actually make the sort of money that creates development but instead have to remain as peasants.

The problem with much of the green movement is that many of the people have a romantic view of what it was to be a medieval peasant. That because they can go off on a peace camp for a weekend or eat organic food that somehow, it would all be just like that, and you wouldn't be dying by the age of 30.

dan_in_oakland: Not to be that guy, but I'm not seeing the AMUSING here. Mass deaths from starvation comedy gold.

Dammit. That should be "starvation != comedy gold."

Aarontology:
Weaver95: y'know what? I think that documentary might have gotten it right. A bunch of whiny well fed assholes decided to block Genetically modified food crops from getting to africa where a bunch of people were/are starving to death and it was all because the whiny well fed people didn't like the politics behind the technology that developed those crops.

My biggest gripe with GM foods isn't the "Frankenfood" nonsense, but how the genetic code has been patented/trademarked by the biotech companies, and their despicable practice of suing local farmers and other people when seeds from the GM plants end up on other people's property.

Well it IS a lot easier to lawyer up against some small farmer than develop a technical solution whereby your seeds don't end up growing on their adjacent land. Nothing is easier than suing someone who has vastly less money than you, which is one of the biggest reasons bad corporate citizens prosper so much.

All_Farked_Up: There is plenty of food. The problem is getting it to the people who need it. This is a problem of politics and local warlords, not a lack of food.

While I agree that the greens have it wrong, that's to say we should look at nuclear energy (where do they think their battery powered cars are going to get electricity?) and genetically modified foods are not necessarily the son of the devil - Africa's food problems are problems of Africa's making.

40 years ago Zimbabwe had Africa's most advanced economy, it was a net food exporter -- and now... well it hasn't gone so well for the country.

For 1000s of years Egypt fed Europe, it too is now a net food importer.

Africa's problem are the leaders. And with China's involvement in many of these countries I don't expect it to get better anytime soon.

Weaver95: y'know what? I think that documentary might have gotten it right. A bunch of whiny well fed assholes decided to block Genetically modified food crops from getting to africa where a bunch of people were/are starving to death and it was all because the whiny well fed people didn't like the politics behind the technology that developed those crops.

F*ck you greenpeace. you aren't starving to death.

The documentary is right, but the point needs to be made that there are different groups or factions within the "green movements" if you will. One faction is smaller but composed of rational progressives who recognize the place science has in fixing problems and making a sustainable and more environmentally conscious future. This group supports GM crops and nuclear power. The other group is composed mostly of retarded ultra-left wing blowhards that are the mirror image of the ultra-right wing anti-science crowd just about different issues.

There have been some high profile defections with some prominent old guard leaders of the green movement admitting they were wrong on both GM crops and nuclear power.

Aarontology: My biggest gripe with GM foods isn't the "Frankenfood" nonsense, but how the genetic code has been patented/trademarked by the biotech companies, and their despicable practice of suing local farmers and other people when seeds from the GM plants end up on other people's property.

While the patent issue is a little farked up (I support patenting the whole organism that you developed but not the individual trans-sequences themselves) it should be noted that in at least some of those cases there was good evidence that the seed spread either wasn't accidental or the farmers knew damn well what had happened and chose to ignore it. I still hate Monsanto with a passion but they aren't quite as bad as they are sometimes made out to be.

lordaction: How about how the greens have caused several million deaths by banning DDT from Africa, even though it is perfectly safe. They all read some stupid book called "Silent Spring" and decided to condemn all the poor africans to death because they were worried DDT might hurt birds.

The green movement is about money and destroying human life.

I am not going to look it up, so hate me for my laziness not for being wrong, but I've also heard this and I agree.

I am however not going to touch your last sentence with a ten foot pole, being lazy I don't have the time whether right or wrong.

/Malaria anyone?

When were Europeans put in charge of how Africans farm?

You want to have a few sleepless nights, read Stewart Brands new book. Some of the updated predictions for real climate caused issues are only a couple of decades away, and includes not enough water to grow crops in the USA.

Monsanto

Monsanto is actually the devil. I've seen the paperwork.

austin_millbarge: Came here for all the "greenpeace" and "worldwide socialist state" derp.

/leaves satisfied as my daily quota of facepalm has already been met

Yes, it's much better to run away than it is to challenge the statements you disagree with.

Greenpeace is the most evil people in the world. fark you Greenpeace.

/me hasn't formed this opinion because of the current claims, but has always held that opinion.


Thanks for ruining the Inuit culture btw. Greenpeace, lets not forget that, fark you.

The Monsanto "Seed Police" are not something Penn & Teller get around to talking about. Because Monsanto is not about helping subsistence farmers around the world, or saving lives. They are a transnational corporation that wants to maximize profits.

Monsanto's Harvest of Fear (new window)

So, no thanks.

entropic_existence: or the farmers knew damn well what had happened and chose to ignore it.

If so, good for them.

Aarontology: Weaver95: y'know what? I think that documentary might have gotten it right. A bunch of whiny well fed assholes decided to block Genetically modified food crops from getting to africa where a bunch of people were/are starving to death and it was all because the whiny well fed people didn't like the politics behind the technology that developed those crops.

My biggest gripe with GM foods isn't the "Frankenfood" nonsense, but how the genetic code has been patented/trademarked by the biotech companies, and their despicable practice of suing local farmers and other people when seeds from the GM plants end up on other people's property.

Exactly. But it's much easier to pretend angry Socialist hippies want to starve the world.

Greenpeace (pop) wrote a counter piece, some you can find there.

If there's one thing Africa needs more of, it's people.