The concept and the law sound good to me. Tighten up the borders and get rid of all the illegals. Too bad we can't deport American-born repeat criminals. Tighter borders will slow down drug running and potential terrorism as well.

Notice the key word is "illegal", and not "foreign." I don't give a carp where you were born or where your family came from.

Jackson Herring: This is why I never post anything political on Facebook. Most of my friends are borderline retarded when it comes to Politics.

So you come to Fark, where there is no doubt!

JamUhn: Cataholic: Those three steps have to be taken long before we get anywhere close to the "locking up" part mentioned in TFA. One has to presume that most people who "cannot show proof they are in the country legally," when pulled over by the police will fall by the wayside somewhere along those three steps and never get to "lockup".

So, what happens in the third step while the officer is making a reasonable attempt to determine immigration status...the person is free to go? Or are they "locked up" until their immigration status is determined?

1. Person is stopped for a *rolls die* ... "illegal lane change" (and being brown of course, but we can't include that in the police report)
2. Person is suspected of being in the country illegaly because they "forgot their driver's license" (and because they are brown and/or have an accent)
3. Person is "locked up" while the officer makes a reasonable attempt to determine their immigration status.

See, NPR is just removing all your BS obfuscation and getting to the meat of the matter. Damn liberal reality!

Try this one:
1. Person walking along the street at 3 A.M., not a crime.
2. Police stops person and asks for ID.
3. Person tells the cop to go fark himself, again not a crime.
4. Person locked up, until they provide id.
5. Person decides to not provide id, refuses to give their name, still not a crime. Having no prior record can not be identified by their DNA or fingerprints is locked up.

Yeah, I'm that asshole who tells cops to go fark themselves when they want to me to present papers. I'm not a farking good German, this is not a police state, yet, but for some reason retards think it should be.

That was the stupidest piece of advocacy posing as a news article I've ever read.

DistendedPendulusFrenulum: Great. Another way to siphon money off of the government. Who says teabaggers are against welfare?

.

"Teabagger" is an offensive term. Please don't use it.

jheard: "Teabagger" is an offensive term. Please don't use it.

Teabagger is so 2009. Teanderthal is the new hotness.

SchlingFocker: DarnoKonrad: A person is presumed to not be an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States if the person provides to the law enforcement officer or agency any of the following:

1. A valid Arizona driver license.

2. A valid Arizona nonoperating identification license.

Well, that makes the law kind of pointless. The illegals already have driver's licenses or non-operating licenses. That's how they're taking our menial labor jobs.

In Arizona, you have to prove legal residency or citizenship to procure a driver's license. Not sure about the non-operating ID, but I'd imagine it's the same.

Slaves2Darkness: Yeah, I'm that asshole who tells cops to go fark themselves when they want to me to present papers.

No you're not, ITG...

zombietheclown: so the officer must first have reason to pull you over for committing another crime before this "papers please" even comes into effect . . . so yes, it has been debunked . . . no, they can't just demand id because you look shady

Yesterday I was speaking with a border patrol agent. I got into an argument with him regarding what constituted a legal stop.

Yes they will. No, they can't. But yes they will.

Our police forces are uneducated, or specifically wrongfully educated because it makes their jobs easier.

Glad to see Soros' money being well spent.

keypusher: That was the stupidest piece of advocacy posing as a news article I've ever read.

To me, it seemed to be focused more on the fact that private prison corporations are writing legislation that guarantees an expansion of an underclass here in America.

This is not the only time where these corporations have written legislation expanding the number of people we have incarcerated in this country.

The_Six_Fingered_Man: In Arizona, you have to prove legal residency or citizenship to procure a driver's license.

If that were actually the case in practice, then illegals wouldn't be flooding the job markets in Arizona, having obtained the jobs with their AZ IDs.

JamUhn:
1. Person is stopped for a *rolls die* ... "illegal lane change" (and being brown of course, but we can't include that in the police report)
2. Person is suspected of being in the country illegaly because they "forgot their driver's license" (and because they are brown and/or have an accent)
3. Person is "locked up" while the officer makes a reasonable attempt to determine their immigration status.

See, NPR is just removing all your BS obfuscation and getting to the meat of the matter. Damn liberal reality!

Sorry, but no. Just no. I have been stopped by police in Arizona when I forgot my wallet. You know what happened? They asked for my name and address. Then they walked back to their car, typed it into their computer, and saw that I had a valid drivers license and that the picture looked like me. It took about 2 minutes. Oh, and I was technically in violation for operating a motor vehicle while not carrying my permit to do so.. and nothing happened.

dittybopper:

Problem with that philosophy is that they can't dump them when they cease to be profitable, and there is a cap on how much you can charge them.

I don't think the HCL is going to be a windfall for insurance companies when everything shakes out. They'll get to their comfortable level of profit (probably by raising rates on the healthy, which would also allow them to raise rates on the sick), but they aren't going to be significantly more profitable than before.

I think you will see their profit margins remain the same. However, the profits will increase substantially in overall amount because of a huge influx of guaranteed revenue streams. Imagine owning a business and your state saying everyone in the state now needs to buy your product?

Would you support that politically? Bet your bottom you would.

FTFA: "Last year, two men showed up in Benson, Ariz., a small desert town 60 miles from the Mexico border, offering a deal."

Hmmmmmmm...... mysterious men (in black, no doubt, with little red flashlight thingees....) with no names, no affiliations.

GOTTA be true! Would a City Manager make shiat up?

FTFA

"NPR spent the past several months analyzing hundreds of pages of campaign finance reports, lobbying documents and corporate records. What they show is a quiet, behind-the-scenes effort to help draft and pass Arizona Senate Bill 1070 by an industry that stands to benefit from it: the private prison industry."

What reports? What documents? How about some names, dates, places, you know, the standard for reporting: "who what where when how why" that sort of shiat?

FTFA "It's a membership organization of state legislators and powerful corporations and associations, such as the tobacco company Reynolds American Inc., ExxonMobil and the National Rifle Association. Another member is the billion-dollar Corrections Corporation of America - the largest private prison company in the country."

Little short on, ya know, actual FACTS there, aren't we, Laura baby? That's some really hard hitting journalism there, totally up to NPR standards.

Sorry, based on this "reporting" I'll stick to my racistxenophobic known facts rather than running around in a libtard frothing hysteria.

(Wow, and lefty moonbats make fun of World Net Daily!)

Slaves2Darkness: JamUhn: Cataholic: Those three steps have to be taken long before we get anywhere close to the "locking up" part mentioned in TFA. One has to presume that most people who "cannot show proof they are in the country legally," when pulled over by the police will fall by the wayside somewhere along those three steps and never get to "lockup".

So, what happens in the third step while the officer is making a reasonable attempt to determine immigration status...the person is free to go? Or are they "locked up" until their immigration status is determined?

1. Person is stopped for a *rolls die* ... "illegal lane change" (and being brown of course, but we can't include that in the police report)
2. Person is suspected of being in the country illegaly because they "forgot their driver's license" (and because they are brown and/or have an accent)
3. Person is "locked up" while the officer makes a reasonable attempt to determine their immigration status.

See, NPR is just removing all your BS obfuscation and getting to the meat of the matter. Damn liberal reality!

Try this one:
1. Person walking along the street at 3 A.M., not a crime.
2. Police stops person and asks for ID.
3. Person tells the cop to go fark himself, again not a crime.
4. Person locked up, until they provide id.
5. Person decides to not provide id, refuses to give their name, still not a crime. Having no prior record can not be identified by their DNA or fingerprints is locked up.

Yeah, I'm that asshole who tells cops to go fark themselves when they want to me to present papers. I'm not a farking good German, this is not a police state, yet, but for some reason retards think it should be.

either your trolling or just being willfully ignorant of the law. . .

this doesn't apply to you if you haven't committed a crime. . . that was one of the most public modifications to this law (and one of the most overlooked) . . . they can't bring you to jail for just walking down the street, they can't REQUIRE you to provide id when you haven't done anything wrong

if / when they do, lawyer up and enjoy your payday

SchlingFocker: The_Six_Fingered_Man: In Arizona, you have to prove legal residency or citizenship to procure a driver's license.

If that were actually the case in practice, then illegals wouldn't be flooding the job markets in Arizona, having obtained the jobs with their AZ IDs.

Can you show that a) this is actually happening and they aren't being paid under the table, or b) these licenses are on the up and up and not based on stolen information?

brap: I love Arizona it's beautiful the girl keeps hinting that she wants me to move out there with her.

But politically it's tard central.

My little cactus flower moved here from AZ back in 1986, and she never looked back.

Even when the weather turns cold, gray and blustery, like it did today, she never talks about going back. Never, ever, ever.

Slaves2Darkness
Well the state does pay the prison per prison, but then hires local people to guard, do the laundry, deliver the food, etc... So the politician gets to say, "See all those jobs I brought them to the community.", the prison company gets to make a profit, Joe six pack gets a job, and the only people hurt are the illegal immigrants. Oh and those of us who object to our government becoming an oligopoly, but hey what the fark do we matter anyway. We apparently lost that battle ten years ago.

True, then they get re-elected... wash hands repeat.


On another note, the term "prison" being used for illegals is way over the top in my opinion. I'm fine with a "campus" style facility that teaches illegals everything they need to become "legal" citizens (which by the way is more knowledge about the U.S. than most regular citizens know) but a farking prison? seriously? I would rather have a large hallway that has one entrance and one exit. Exit door opens up to the Mexican border.

Unless they are muslim... inprison all of them sumsa biatches.
/am i right?

The_Six_Fingered_Man: For any lawful STOP

do you understand how broad this statement is? You can be pulled over to ask about the weather, that is a lawful stop. It's also lawful to leave, but in this case, the guy can ask for your ID, and if you fail to produce it, you can go to jail.

zombietheclown: DarnoKonrad: zombietheclown: the statement that they can just ask you for "your papers" because you look suspicious has been debunked

No, it hasn't. That's what the law says. In plain English:

A person is presumed to not be an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States if the person provides to the law enforcement officer or agency any of the following:

1. A valid Arizona driver license.

2. A valid Arizona nonoperating identification license.

3. A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.

4. If the entity requires proof of legal presence in the United States before issuance, any valid United States federal, state or local government issued identification.



ahh i see you either didn't read, or are cherry picking the law

this is the important part

" Changes "lawful contact" to "lawful stop, detention or arrest.""

so the officer must first have reason to pull you over for committing another crime before this "papers please" even comes into effect . . . so yes, it has been debunked . . . no, they can't just demand id because you look shady

My state doesn't require proof of citizenship to issue a driver's license. Can I be detained in Arizona for not having my papers even though I am a US citizen?

give me doughnuts: It doesn't.

yes it does, and it explicitly says what presumes residency. Can you people not read?

I_C_Weener: This is old news...brought up days before an election. Hmmm.

How DARE you imply that totallyobjectiveministryoftruthnpr is taking sides in the election. LET'S SEE SOME IDENTIFICATION THERE, MISTER!

elchip: jheard: "Teabagger" is an offensive term. Please don't use it.

Teabagger is so 2009. Teanderthal is the new hotness.

I use "teabaggot" and "teabaggotry", just to reference the not-so-latent butt-boy tendencies of Right Wing Authoritarian followers.

Politically speaking, they are all a bunch of pillow-biters.

TheWizard: zombietheclown: so the officer must first have reason to pull you over for committing another crime before this "papers please" even comes into effect . . . so yes, it has been debunked . . . no, they can't just demand id because you look shady

Yesterday I was speaking with a border patrol agent. I got into an argument with him regarding what constituted a legal stop.

Yes they will. No, they can't. But yes they will.

Our police forces are uneducated, or specifically wrongfully educated because it makes their jobs easier.

i understand what you're saying, but the answer to an uneducated police force is NOT to stop making laws

SchlingFocker: keypusher: That was the stupidest piece of advocacy posing as a news article I've ever read.

To me, it seemed to be focused more on the fact that private prison corporations are writing legislation that guarantees an expansion of an underclass here in America.

This is not the only time where these corporations have written legislation expanding the number of people we have incarcerated in this country.

Except if you read the facts the article contains, rather than what it wants you to think, you learn that, in fact, private prison corporations did not write the bill in question.

And it is, in fact, immigration of the unskilled from Mexico and Central America that is expanding the underclass every goddam day.

DarnoKonrad: zombietheclown: the statement that they can just ask you for "your papers" because you look suspicious has been debunked

No, it hasn't. That's what the law says. In plain English:

A person is presumed to not be an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States if the person provides to the law enforcement officer or agency any of the following:

1. A valid Arizona driver license.

2. A valid Arizona nonoperating identification license.

3. A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.

4. If the entity requires proof of legal presence in the United States before issuance, any valid United States federal, state or local government issued identification.

Let me get this straight:

My imigrant with is driving though AZ and gets pulled over for speeding. She has a heavy accent. She does not have her Resident Alien (green) Card. But does produce a Florida Liscence. Does she get to sit in jail until she is proven not guilty?

Since the US has outsourced most of its manufacturing and has very little natural resources left the major players have realized that the best place to make money is govt contracts + health care/pharma (which a good part of that is govt paid) so they are just laying the groundwork to be sure they get as much as possible. It is called capitalism. Ever wonder why health care costs are growing at 8x the rate of inflation???

yert: DarnoKonrad: zombietheclown: the statement that they can just ask you for "your papers" because you look suspicious has been debunked

No, it hasn't. That's what the law says. In plain English:

A person is presumed to not be an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States if the person provides to the law enforcement officer or agency any of the following:

1. A valid Arizona driver license.

2. A valid Arizona nonoperating identification license.

3. A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.

4. If the entity requires proof of legal presence in the United States before issuance, any valid United States federal, state or local government issued identification.

Let me get this straight:

My imigrant withwife is driving though AZ and gets pulled over for speeding. She has a heavy accent. She does not have her Resident Alien (green) Card. But does produce a Florida Liscence. Does she get to sit in jail until she is proven not guilty?

sry wife

DarnoKonrad: The_Six_Fingered_Man: For any lawful STOP

do you understand how broad this statement is? You can be pulled over to ask about the weather, that is a lawful stop. It's also lawful to leave, but in this case, the guy can ask for your ID, and if you fail to produce it, you can go to jail.

No you can't. Not in the context of this law. In the immortal words of Bartelby, you need to keep reading.

For any lawful stop, detention, or arrest...in the enforcement of any other law or ordinance of a county, city or town in this State...

zombietheclown: so the officer must first have reason to pull you over

That's not what 'stop' means. It's not unlawful for an officer to pull you over for any reason they please.

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Can you show that a) this is actually happening and they aren't being paid under the table

A company like Applebee's can't exactly pay every single busboy under the table and hide it. They'd have no problem hiding it from ICE or any state/local agency.

But, the IRS would bring the farking hammer down.

b) these licenses are on the up and up and not based on stolen information?

If they have a valid license, then it doesn't really matter how they got it in the first place. They'll pass the traffic stop scrutiny.

This legislation isn't going to do much of anything for getting the illegals out of our country. That makes me sad because the illegals stay. It makes me glad because they private prison corporations won't see the profit they're expecting.

TheWizard: zombietheclown: so the officer must first have reason to pull you over for committing another crime before this "papers please" even comes into effect . . . so yes, it has been debunked . . . no, they can't just demand id because you look shady

Yesterday I was speaking with a border patrol agent. I got into an argument with him regarding what constituted a legal stop.

Yes they will. No, they can't. But yes they will.

Our police forces are uneducated, or specifically wrongfully educated because it makes their jobs easier.

Fun fact: many police agencies only require a high school diploma to become an policeman, just like the Army. I was in the Army. Trust me when I say that is not a high enough standard for people who need to do more than "see bad guy, shoot bullets".

yert: yert: DarnoKonrad: zombietheclown: the statement that they can just ask you for "your papers" because you look suspicious has been debunked

No, it hasn't. That's what the law says. In plain English:

A person is presumed to not be an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States if the person provides to the law enforcement officer or agency any of the following:

1. A valid Arizona driver license.

2. A valid Arizona nonoperating identification license.

3. A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.

4. If the entity requires proof of legal presence in the United States before issuance, any valid United States federal, state or local government issued identification.

Let me get this straight:

My imigrant withwife is driving though AZ and gets pulled over for speeding. She has a heavy accent. She does not have her Resident Alien (green) Card. But does produce a Florida Liscence. Does she get to sit in jail until she is proven not guilty?

sry wife

If you're a citizen and your wife is not...she is through marriage...she's not an immigrant.

yert: DarnoKonrad: zombietheclown: the statement that they can just ask you for "your papers" because you look suspicious has been debunked

No, it hasn't. That's what the law says. In plain English:

A person is presumed to not be an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States if the person provides to the law enforcement officer or agency any of the following:

1. A valid Arizona driver license.

2. A valid Arizona nonoperating identification license.

3. A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.

4. If the entity requires proof of legal presence in the United States before issuance, any valid United States federal, state or local government issued identification.

Let me get this straight:

My imigrant with is driving though AZ and gets pulled over for speeding. She has a heavy accent. She does not have her Resident Alien (green) Card. But does produce a Florida Liscence. Does she get to sit in jail until she is proven not guilty?

Why is she violating Federal law by not keeping her Resident Alien Card on her?

Regardless, if she has a Florida license, she's fine. Florida is one of the States that require proof of legal residency before issuing a DL.

bookman: (Wow, and lefty moonbats make fun of World Net Daily!)

Actually there are no "Lefty Moonbats". That's just more right-wing nutjob projection. There are simply no left-wingers (mainstream or otherwise) that even approach the crazy of the mainstream right wing.

Now the fringe right wing, that's what happens when you gut mental health services and force the crazy out in public.

Any attempt to cite otherwise will provide gleefully funny proof of the "Ann Coulter = Michael Moore" variety.

pvd021: The hippies were right, this country is turning into a prison state. But its in Arizona, who in the world would want to live there anyways, with that level of blatant xenophobia and stupidity. Either their a good proportion of their public are stupid and lazy, or they agree with these crazy laws. Either way, I hope they enjoy.

Particularly since YOU will NOT be there, right?

Go boycott some Arizona Iced Tea; it will make you feel better.

If Brown wins in California and they go ahead with the Final Solutions Global Warming Bill, I will probably be moving to Arizona shortly thereafter.

SchlingFocker: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Can you show that a) this is actually happening and they aren't being paid under the table

A company like Applebee's can't exactly pay every single busboy under the table and hide it. They'd have no problem hiding it from ICE or any state/local agency.

But, the IRS would bring the farking hammer down.

b) these licenses are on the up and up and not based on stolen information?

If they have a valid license, then it doesn't really matter how they got it in the first place. They'll pass the traffic stop scrutiny.

This legislation isn't going to do much of anything for getting the illegals out of our country. That makes me sad because the illegals stay. It makes me glad because they private prison corporations won't see the profit they're expecting.

You really think that if a police officer has reasonable suspicion, that he won't check the DL to ensure that there is a match? It's not as if he'll just look at it, notice it "appears" valid, and let them go. Especially not before citing them for the offense for which they were originally stopped.

Forest. Trees.

Isn't the real story the fact that the legislation was largely put forward by private prison interests?

FarkLiter: JamUhn:
1. Person is stopped for a *rolls die* ... "illegal lane change" (and being brown of course, but we can't include that in the police report)
2. Person is suspected of being in the country illegaly because they "forgot their driver's license" (and because they are brown and/or have an accent)
3. Person is "locked up" while the officer makes a reasonable attempt to determine their immigration status.

See, NPR is just removing all your BS obfuscation and getting to the meat of the matter. Damn liberal reality!

Sorry, but no. Just no. I have been stopped by police in Arizona when I forgot my wallet. You know what happened? They asked for my name and address. Then they walked back to their car, typed it into their computer, and saw that I had a valid drivers license and that the picture looked like me. It took about 2 minutes. Oh, and I was technically in violation for operating a motor vehicle while not carrying my permit to do so.. and nothing happened.

name: Tim

Yes, I'm sure that's why, and not because you were white so the cop didn't care. What part of "reasonable suspicion"("whatever I want to make up") don't you understand?

Mere citizens proposing bills to become law?! That's preposterous! Only official government officials should be able to do that!

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Why is she violating Federal law by not keeping her Resident Alien Card on her?

lulz