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(Some Guy)   Blizzard finally responds to Valve's "DOTA" trademark. Surprisingly, they're polite and respectful   (eurogamer.net) divider line 92
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8903 clicks; posted to Geek » on 25 Oct 2010 at 3:38 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-10-25 03:43:17 PM
Please no one go and ask Kotik...it would just result in WHARGARRRBBLL.

/Former ATVI investor...I got out when I saw Activision-Blizzard management risking big lawsuits at every possible avenue.
 
2010-10-25 04:09:19 PM
VALVe vs. Activision Blizzard. I wonder who the gamers will support?

/Newell is fat because the win he possesses could not be contained by a normally- sized body.
 
2010-10-25 04:11:06 PM
There's massive irony in Blizzard complaining about someone sh*tting all over the mod-community.
 
2010-10-25 04:13:15 PM
netweavr: There's massive irony in Blizzard complaining about someone sh*tting all over the mod-community.

Yup. Pretty much that. Oh look Blizzard's new patch farked up all the WoW mods. You'd think for a game with 12 million users and an active community they could release an API and not fark everything up every 3rd patch or so.
 
2010-10-25 04:16:15 PM
ha-ha-guy: netweavr: There's massive irony in Blizzard complaining about someone sh*tting all over the mod-community.

Yup. Pretty much that. Oh look Blizzard's new patch farked up all the WoW mods. You'd think for a game with 12 million users and an active community they could release an API and not fark everything up every 3rd patch or so.


It's why I stopped using 3rd party mods. They kept breaking them.

That and I quit raiding and lost interest in the game.
 
2010-10-25 04:18:40 PM
ha-ha-guy: netweavr: There's massive irony in Blizzard complaining about someone sh*tting all over the mod-community.

Yup. Pretty much that. Oh look Blizzard's new patch farked up all the WoW mods. You'd think for a game with 12 million users and an active community they could release an API and not fark everything up every 3rd patch or so.


Just curious, but do you think it's Blizzards responsibility to make sure that their updates work with thousands of different mods? Yeah it'd be great if they didn't change their API, but it happens when they do updates, and the developers of said mods know this and update their mods appropriately.
 
2010-10-25 04:20:54 PM
The mods in WoW are so out of control the game basically plays for you. They wouldn't have had to even develop most of these if Blizzard designed a decent interface to begin with. There are some mods that just floor me that aren't a part of the standard game. Most mods however shouldn't even be allowed in the game. As someone who plays LOTS AND LOTS of MMORPGs, it would be nice to not have to update mods every single farking patch. Just make a clean UI and respond to the community when they say they all want something. For the most part, mods and macros should just not exist in games now they enable players to be bad.
 
2010-10-25 04:22:36 PM
Unoriginal_Username: ha-ha-guy: netweavr: There's massive irony in Blizzard complaining about someone sh*tting all over the mod-community.

Yup. Pretty much that. Oh look Blizzard's new patch farked up all the WoW mods. You'd think for a game with 12 million users and an active community they could release an API and not fark everything up every 3rd patch or so.

Just curious, but do you think it's Blizzards responsibility to make sure that their updates work with thousands of different mods? Yeah it'd be great if they didn't change their API, but it happens when they do updates, and the developers of said mods know this and update their mods appropriately.


If Blizzard is honestly making a claim to "DOTA" then yes. If they aren't, then no.
 
2010-10-25 04:22:58 PM
ha-ha-guy: netweavr: There's massive irony in Blizzard complaining about someone sh*tting all over the mod-community.

Yup. Pretty much that. Oh look Blizzard's new patch farked up all the WoW mods. You'd think for a game with 12 million users and an active community they could release an API and not fark everything up every 3rd patch or so.


Things change. good mods keep getting updated, crap and things that help cheating (AVR and such) don't get updated.
 
2010-10-25 04:28:40 PM
Unoriginal_Username: ha-ha-guy: netweavr: There's massive irony in Blizzard complaining about someone sh*tting all over the mod-community.

Yup. Pretty much that. Oh look Blizzard's new patch farked up all the WoW mods. You'd think for a game with 12 million users and an active community they could release an API and not fark everything up every 3rd patch or so.

Just curious, but do you think it's Blizzards responsibility to make sure that their updates work with thousands of different mods? Yeah it'd be great if they didn't change their API, but it happens when they do updates, and the developers of said mods know this and update their mods appropriately.


I think Blizzard's responsibility is to make sure I have a pleasant experience using their software. I don't think they're beholden to me over things like the custom add on people in our guild wrote for internal use. On the other hand things like Recount or Map Coordinates are used by a massive percentage of the community (anecdotal: when I PUG it seems like everyone has Recount). So you'd think for common use cases like that they'd ensure there was a stable and unchanging API. Or add it as a feature they curate and take care of.

/Recount can of course use read off the combat log so it's kind of a bad example
 
2010-10-25 04:29:03 PM
To be fair, people in the article are trying to say that Valve has more of a right to it because IceFrog is employed by them, and its HIS game. It ISN'T his game.

The original map was Blizzard's, and a mod community made a custom scenario. Defence of the Ancients was originally created by Eul. When Eul didn't update the game after the editor got an upgrade 9allowing them to do more with it) another developer named Steve Feak (Guinsoo) took over and added more features, and branching off into what is the widely known DotA Allstars. Another member of the group (Steve "Pendragon" Mescon) created a website where they could collaborate and share information about the mod. Guinsoo eventually passed development off to IceFrog.

IceFrog stopped affiliating himself with DotA Allstars in 2009. IceFrog announced that he'd be continuing development and maintaining his own site: playdota.com, while Mescon dropped DotA Allstars to pursue work with League of Legends.

Heroes of Newerth is a DotA-Clone based on previous IP created by S2 Games. They're making money off of the DotA franchise, probably without permission.

League of Legends at least was started as a direct branch off of one of the major contributors to the DotA franchise. Steve Feak and Steve Mescon work for Riot games.

Apparently when IceFrog had left the DotA Allstars community, he was secretly working for S2 Games, when he was supposed to be trying to pitch a full DotA concept to multiple companies (Riot games included).

Now IceFrog has bounced from the original concept that was built on Warcraft 3 technology that was not created by him, took it to Heroes of Newerth (S2 Games) and then bounced ship and moved on to Valve, who decided that he's the entitled owner of the IP that is DotA and by extension, so are they.

In my eyes, the game belongs to Eul, should he speak up and claim it, but it sounds like Mescon and Feak are the earliest holders of the DotA that still associate with it. Therefore, I consider League of Legends to be the actual DotA standalone.

Letter from "Pendragon" (new window)
 
2010-10-25 04:30:55 PM
The competitive Starcraft scene, Defense of the Ancients...anyone else notice that Blizzard only wants to get their hands on third-party products when its demonstrable that they can be profited from in the immediate future?
 
2010-10-25 04:33:16 PM
the money is in the banana stand: As someone who plays LOTS AND LOTS of MMORPGs, it would be nice to not have to update mods every single farking patch.

Oh please. Enormous content patches like the most recent are few and far between. On most other patches, mods still work fine if you enable outdated addons, and most of them are updated within hours anyway.

If that really bothers you, you probably have some kind of anxiety disorder.
 
2010-10-25 04:33:40 PM
the money is in the banana stand: The mods in WoW are so out of control the game basically plays for you. They wouldn't have had to even develop most of these if Blizzard designed a decent interface to begin with. There are some mods that just floor me that aren't a part of the standard game. Most mods however shouldn't even be allowed in the game. As someone who plays LOTS AND LOTS of MMORPGs, it would be nice to not have to update mods every single farking patch. Just make a clean UI and respond to the community when they say they all want something. For the most part, mods and macros should just not exist in games now they enable players to be bad.

If you look in the addon directory, there is a growing amount of blizz created addons. I agree however, that some of the addons should really just be in the game. Threat meters would be nice to be built in.
 
2010-10-25 04:35:35 PM
Ika7734: the money is in the banana stand: The mods in WoW are so out of control the game basically plays for you. They wouldn't have had to even develop most of these if Blizzard designed a decent interface to begin with. There are some mods that just floor me that aren't a part of the standard game. Most mods however shouldn't even be allowed in the game. As someone who plays LOTS AND LOTS of MMORPGs, it would be nice to not have to update mods every single farking patch. Just make a clean UI and respond to the community when they say they all want something. For the most part, mods and macros should just not exist in games now they enable players to be bad.

If you look in the addon directory, there is a growing amount of blizz created addons. I agree however, that some of the addons should really just be in the game. Threat meters would be nice to be built in.


Threat meters are built into the game. You may have to enable them, but they pop up on top of the target bar with a percentage of how much threat you have against the target.
 
2010-10-25 04:39:30 PM
Uh, maybe it seems polite and respectful to you, Subs, but that's a very subtly-worded threat right there, particularly this bit:
What if Valve were to object to Blizzard's use of the term for Blizzard DOTA, we aksed? "Our response is that they don't own the term DOTA at this point. It's something that they're filing for," Pardo said.
 
2010-10-25 04:42:14 PM
netweavr: Unoriginal_Username: ha-ha-guy: netweavr: There's massive irony in Blizzard complaining about someone sh*tting all over the mod-community.

Yup. Pretty much that. Oh look Blizzard's new patch farked up all the WoW mods. You'd think for a game with 12 million users and an active community they could release an API and not fark everything up every 3rd patch or so.

Just curious, but do you think it's Blizzards responsibility to make sure that their updates work with thousands of different mods? Yeah it'd be great if they didn't change their API, but it happens when they do updates, and the developers of said mods know this and update their mods appropriately.

If Blizzard is honestly making a claim to "DOTA" then yes. If they aren't, then no.


I agree with this. I personally think that any mod should be 'owned' by the moding community.What I gather is that Valve is trying to register DOTA even though it's been around for years and was created by the mod community. I think Valve is great, but I don't think this is a good idea, no matter who works for them.
 
2010-10-25 04:43:44 PM
Unoriginal_Username: netweavr: Unoriginal_Username: ha-ha-guy: netweavr: There's massive irony in Blizzard complaining about someone sh*tting all over the mod-community.

Yup. Pretty much that. Oh look Blizzard's new patch farked up all the WoW mods. You'd think for a game with 12 million users and an active community they could release an API and not fark everything up every 3rd patch or so.

Just curious, but do you think it's Blizzards responsibility to make sure that their updates work with thousands of different mods? Yeah it'd be great if they didn't change their API, but it happens when they do updates, and the developers of said mods know this and update their mods appropriately.

If Blizzard is honestly making a claim to "DOTA" then yes. If they aren't, then no.

I agree with this. I personally think that any mod should be 'owned' by the moding community.What I gather is that Valve is trying to register DOTA even though it's been around for years and was created by the mod community. I think Valve is great, but I don't think this is a good idea, no matter who works for them.


Knowing what I do of Valve, I suspect this is just pre-emptive against someone (Blizzard, S2, Riot, random guy with a lawyer) trolling/suing them in the future.
 
2010-10-25 04:44:44 PM
Just look at the ToS and EULA For WC3, pretty sure all maps created are the property of Blizzard etc. etc. etc. Now whether that covers the IP rights, who knows. Either way, DOTA 2 is a direct port of DOTA with an updated engine which if you want to argue what Icefrog/Valve vs Blizzard they probably have a stronger argument as opposed to HoN or LoL.
 
2010-10-25 04:46:47 PM
Unoriginal_Username: netweavr: Unoriginal_Username: ha-ha-guy: netweavr: There's massive irony in Blizzard complaining about someone sh*tting all over the mod-community.

Yup. Pretty much that. Oh look Blizzard's new patch farked up all the WoW mods. You'd think for a game with 12 million users and an active community they could release an API and not fark everything up every 3rd patch or so.

Just curious, but do you think it's Blizzards responsibility to make sure that their updates work with thousands of different mods? Yeah it'd be great if they didn't change their API, but it happens when they do updates, and the developers of said mods know this and update their mods appropriately.

If Blizzard is honestly making a claim to "DOTA" then yes. If they aren't, then no.

I agree with this. I personally think that any mod should be 'owned' by the moding community.What I gather is that Valve is trying to register DOTA even though it's been around for years and was created by the mod community. I think Valve is great, but I don't think this is a good idea, no matter who works for them.


I agree. As already stated, to me it feels like Mescon and Feak are the major players invested in DotA and they had left to do a standalone DotA quite a while back. IceFrog bounced from company to company trying to make money on the idea that was handed to him from Feak (who got it from Eul, but as stated, he hasn't shown up to say that he wants a piece of the pie).

Also, Blizzard's DotA feels like it was probably more of a nod to the mod community. I haven't looked into it myself, but Blizzard isn't trying to file a copyright over it, they've simply released a version for SC2. I seriously wonder if all they did is take the latest version and update it for the SC2 engine/units/terrain. Also, it will be interesting to see if they continue to tweak and add to it, or if they'll turn it over to the DotA mod community to nurture.
 
2010-10-25 04:47:58 PM
Fark Blizzard. Lawsuit-happy scumbags.
 
2010-10-25 04:51:58 PM
Splinshints: Fark Blizzard. Lawsuit-happy scumbags.

You know how we know you DRTFA?

The fact that your accusing Blizzard of any lawsuits. Since they haven't filed a lawsuit. The only grounds that Blizzard has to file a lawsuit is if the EULA says that any maps/content made with their World Editor becomes the property of Blizzard. If it does, then that gives them the control over DotA. At that point, Blizzard would have to file for the copyright and then decide if they want to sue Valve, and maybe even HoN or LoL.
 
2010-10-25 04:53:18 PM
Saxton Hale is by far cooler than anything Blizzard has ever done. VALVe wins.
 
2010-10-25 04:56:08 PM
Celerian: Splinshints: Fark Blizzard. Lawsuit-happy scumbags.

You know how we know you DRTFA?

The fact that your accusing Blizzard of any lawsuits. Since they haven't filed a lawsuit. The only grounds that Blizzard has to file a lawsuit is if the EULA says that any maps/content made with their World Editor becomes the property of Blizzard. If it does, then that gives them the control over DotA. At that point, Blizzard would have to file for the copyright and then decide if they want to sue Valve, and maybe even HoN or LoL.


They'd own the map but not the name, nor the idea.

Blizzard doesn't instantly own the phrase "recount" just because it's a mod.
 
2010-10-25 04:57:44 PM
Related video: Basshunter - Dota
 
2010-10-25 04:57:48 PM
BusketsMcBride: Just look at the ToS and EULA For WC3, pretty sure all maps created are the property of Blizzard etc. etc. etc. Now whether that covers the IP rights, who knows.

I really hope Blizzard would not possibly be dumb enough to assert they own the intellectual property. In-fact, I'd like to see them try. Show your entire modmaking community that they'll take credit for their work in the event it becomes famous. That'll win the fan base over.
 
2010-10-25 04:58:01 PM
the money is in the banana stand: The mods in WoW are so out of control the game basically plays for you. They wouldn't have had to even develop most of these if Blizzard designed a decent interface to begin with. There are some mods that just floor me that aren't a part of the standard game. Most mods however shouldn't even be allowed in the game. As someone who plays LOTS AND LOTS of MMORPGs, it would be nice to not have to update mods every single farking patch. Just make a clean UI and respond to the community when they say they all want something. For the most part, mods and macros should just not exist in games now they enable players to be bad.

They do respond to the community. Just look at 4.0.1--we've gotten a new raid UI that only needed to be done 5 years ago. You see something you want now, you just need to wait until patch 8.3 in 2015.
 
2010-10-25 05:03:20 PM
netweavr: Celerian: Splinshints: Fark Blizzard. Lawsuit-happy scumbags.

You know how we know you DRTFA?

The fact that your accusing Blizzard of any lawsuits. Since they haven't filed a lawsuit. The only grounds that Blizzard has to file a lawsuit is if the EULA says that any maps/content made with their World Editor becomes the property of Blizzard. If it does, then that gives them the control over DotA. At that point, Blizzard would have to file for the copyright and then decide if they want to sue Valve, and maybe even HoN or LoL.

They'd own the map but not the name, nor the idea.

Blizzard doesn't instantly own the phrase "recount" just because it's a mod.


Please see: "Counter-Strike developers bring (I believe - yes that many, seriously) 13 lawyers to meeting with VALVe over who owns Counter-Strike."

It wasn't VALVe. This is why Blizzard is being nice - they don't want DoTA to be anything but theirs. Sadly; the lovely "ROM dumpers vs. Nintendo" thing didn't end up on Nintendo's side in the late 80s.

Owning the process to make something is a design patent. The actual code, working iconography and everything else they could sue to remove; but probably not damages, are the "real" patent.

And Blizzard doesn't have a foot to stand on.
 
2010-10-25 05:05:36 PM
Mike_LowELL: BusketsMcBride: Just look at the ToS and EULA For WC3, pretty sure all maps created are the property of Blizzard etc. etc. etc. Now whether that covers the IP rights, who knows.

I really hope Blizzard would not possibly be dumb enough to assert they own the intellectual property. In-fact, I'd like to see them try. Show your entire modmaking community that they'll take credit for their work in the event it becomes famous. That'll win the fan base over.


Blizzard only coded the entire game and mapmaking tool.... so yes, the mods are their property.
 
2010-10-25 05:10:29 PM
Sounds like they're just talking about the trademark "DOTA," not any of the actual game content. Am I wrong?

Valve probably has good reason for doing what they're doing: if they didn't go for the registered trademark to test the waters, they could have found themselves in a world of hurt when they started marketing "DOTA 2" commercially. If it gets granted, they're fine; if it doesn't, they might need to rethink their branding.

/I have no idea why the words "patent" or "lawsuit" show up anywhere in this thread.
//Oh, right, DRTFAs
 
2010-10-25 05:13:28 PM
yumpizza: Mike_LowELL: BusketsMcBride: Just look at the ToS and EULA For WC3, pretty sure all maps created are the property of Blizzard etc. etc. etc. Now whether that covers the IP rights, who knows.

I really hope Blizzard would not possibly be dumb enough to assert they own the intellectual property. In-fact, I'd like to see them try. Show your entire modmaking community that they'll take credit for their work in the event it becomes famous. That'll win the fan base over.

Blizzard only coded the entire game and mapmaking tool.... so yes, the mods are their property.


Yes. The map is theirs. The intellectual property rights? I can't fathom they would be stupid enough to argue the map is their intellectual property.
 
2010-10-25 05:13:53 PM
yumpizza: Blizzard only coded the entire game and mapmaking tool.... so yes, the mods are their property.

Go tell, let's say, Adobe that all their code is owned my Microsoft because Photoshop is a Windows mod.
 
2010-10-25 05:14:29 PM
The Hammer Is My Penis: Related video: Basshunter - Dota

I'm surprised it took so long for someone to post the DotA song. At least someone has their priorities in order.
 
2010-10-25 05:24:53 PM
netweavr: Celerian: Splinshints: Fark Blizzard. Lawsuit-happy scumbags.

You know how we know you DRTFA?

The fact that your accusing Blizzard of any lawsuits. Since they haven't filed a lawsuit. The only grounds that Blizzard has to file a lawsuit is if the EULA says that any maps/content made with their World Editor becomes the property of Blizzard. If it does, then that gives them the control over DotA. At that point, Blizzard would have to file for the copyright and then decide if they want to sue Valve, and maybe even HoN or LoL.

They'd own the map but not the name, nor the idea.

Blizzard doesn't instantly own the phrase "recount" just because it's a mod.


I understand they own the map. The EULA would say whether they own the idea as well. its like sending in your home video to America's Funniest Home Video. You created it, but the rights to the video become that of the studio, who can then decide to sell it to Bounty to sell their paper towels if they want.

I'm assuming that mods for WoW are different, since Blizzard encourages people to make mods for the game, as long as they don't feel that it gives players an unfair advantage, like AVR, and then decide to break it. If Blizzard decided tomorrow that all of the mods out are in violation of the EULA, then they'd break all of them by making the data that the mods operate on protected variables that only the game could read.

Blizzard does not allow mods for War3 or SC2, but do encourage people to make maps and scenarios. However, those maps and scenarios, very well could become property of Blizzard Entertainment, because they were built using the software provided by the company. Again, maybe that doesn't give them right to the idea, but then again, that just means that HoN and LoL dropped the ball by not getting a game patent on the idea and gameplay. And maybe Valve hasn't thought about that idea, because I haven't heard any talk of patenting the gameplay, but we're talking an awful lot about the name "Defence of the Ancients." Copyright and patents are two different monsters. Hoyle owns the copyright to "Hearts" as well as the gameplay. I can't go make a game called "Diamonds" and use the exact same gameplay, because that would be a patent violation, although not a copyright violation.
 
2010-10-25 05:27:38 PM
Maybe it's already been said, but I would think technically Blizzard already owns the rights to DOTA, as most companies that allow modding of their games claim ownership of any mods. Even if that's not the case, DOTA can be made without WC3. Look at League of Legends. That f2p/p2p game was born from DOTA and is the exact same game mechanics, just lots of enhancements. I see no reason why Valve can't take DOTA, get rid of the WC3 elements, and have a great multi-player game on their hand.
 
2010-10-25 05:37:19 PM
Celerian: Copyright and patents are two different monsters. Hoyle owns the copyright to "Hearts" as well as the gameplay. I can't go make a game called "Diamonds" and use the exact same gameplay, because that would be a patent violation, although not a copyright violation.

Doesn't stop Blizzard (new window)
 
2010-10-25 05:38:57 PM
Saw the WC3 map editor EULA quoted elsewhere. Sounds like things that were created with the map editor and the resources within can't be used for commercial gain or sold to a third-party.

I'd think things like models and icons that came with the tool as well as the code the tool actually craps out (like mapfiles) are restricted by this. The scenario and overall game type seems to me like it exists outside of the game engine. ie: (and I don't know the workings of the map editor, so bear with me here) if you created a model/texture outside of the editor and then imported it into the game, the output of the editor would be commercially limited by the EULA, but your original model would not be.

Different engine, different icon sets, all different resources, but same type of game play? I don't see why it would be an issue. Correct me if I'm wrong, but HoN and LoL haven't had any problems.
 
2010-10-25 05:43:58 PM
ProfessorOhki: Sounds like they're just talking about the trademark "DOTA," not any of the actual game content. Am I wrong?

Completely correct. Valve, apparently, has applied for a registration for the mark "DoTA" or variations of it. Blizzard has stepped up and said publicly, "gosh, that seems confusing. Valve doesn't own the mark. When people think DoTA, they think of our game and our modding community."

That's a shot across the bow in two respects... First, they're letting Valve know that they could oppose the registration, and second, they're making a public case that the USPTO simply shouldn't grant the mark in the first place.
 
2010-10-25 05:44:05 PM
The DotA developer who works for Valve is NOT the creator of original DotA. This trademark can only backfire if they try to bully Blizzard, so it seems its really about stopping new versions of the game they copied.
 
2010-10-25 05:45:40 PM
Celerian: Therefore, I consider League of Legends to be the actual DotA standalone.

Letter from "Pendragon" (new window)


LoL is a terrible perversion of DOTA. Its nothing near the original. As of right now I would say HON is definitely the closest thing to a standalone DOTA. For one they maintained the map, mostly, as well as many of the hero concepts. For two LOL is extremely noob friendly, removes much of the strategy inherent in DOTA, and made last hitting easier, and removed denying.

LoL is a terrible game. I play HON regularly, but I'll probably end up on DOTA2.

Blizzard is just pissed because their Starcraft2 Dota is going to see no success, mostly because of their horrible netcoding in the engine. The latency to control a character is in the neighborhood of 5-10x as long in SC2 as it is in HON.
 
2010-10-25 05:46:22 PM
scathing1: The DotA developer who works for Valve is NOT the creator of original DotA. This trademark can only backfire if they try to bully Blizzard, so it seems its really about stopping new versions of the game they copied.

He's the person who currently updates, maintains and controls it though. Either he owns it or Eul does. And no one seems to know where/who Eul is.
 
2010-10-25 06:01:48 PM
Blizzard's just mad that they didn't think to trademark it first.
 
2010-10-25 06:06:27 PM
Celerian: To be fair, people in the article are trying to say that Valve has more of a right to it because IceFrog is employed by them, and its HIS game. It ISN'T his game.

The original map was Blizzard's, and a mod community made a custom scenario. Defence of the Ancients was originally created by Eul. When Eul didn't update the game after the editor got an upgrade 9allowing them to do more with it) another developer named Steve Feak (Guinsoo) took over and added more features, and branching off into what is the widely known DotA Allstars. Another member of the group (Steve "Pendragon" Mescon) created a website where they could collaborate and share information about the mod. Guinsoo eventually passed development off to IceFrog.

IceFrog stopped affiliating himself with DotA Allstars in 2009. IceFrog announced that he'd be continuing development and maintaining his own site: playdota.com, while Mescon dropped DotA Allstars to pursue work with League of Legends.

Heroes of Newerth is a DotA-Clone based on previous IP created by S2 Games. They're making money off of the DotA franchise, probably without permission.

League of Legends at least was started as a direct branch off of one of the major contributors to the DotA franchise. Steve Feak and Steve Mescon work for Riot games.

Apparently when IceFrog had left the DotA Allstars community, he was secretly working for S2 Games, when he was supposed to be trying to pitch a full DotA concept to multiple companies (Riot games included).

Now IceFrog has bounced from the original concept that was built on Warcraft 3 technology that was not created by him, took it to Heroes of Newerth (S2 Games) and then bounced ship and moved on to Valve, who decided that he's the entitled owner of the IP that is DotA and by extension, so are they.

In my eyes, the game belongs to Eul, should he speak up and claim it, but it sounds like Mescon and Feak are the earliest holders of the DotA that still associate with it. Therefore, I consider League of Legends to be the actual DotA standalone.

Letter from "Pendragon" (new window)


LoL is also the best product. It has the most features and its free. Go figure.
 
2010-10-25 06:13:08 PM
HoN is a terrible clone of DOTA. It is just a copy of the original. As of right now, I would say LoL is the best way to get into the DOTA genre. For one, they updated the maps and balanced the hero concepts. It is extremely beginner friendly, and gets rid of superfluous detail such as denying.

HoN has a terrible fanbase. I play LoL regularly, but I'll probably try out Blizzard's DOTA clone.

Valve is just trying to claim the name first and hope nobody notices they don't really have a claim to it. Valve's netcode has always struck me as sub-par, so I don't put much faith in them pulling off a compelling product.
 
2010-10-25 06:25:22 PM
Uakronkid: Blizzard's just mad that they didn't think to trademark it first.

Doesn't matter. Trademark is based on first usage, not first to file.
 
2010-10-25 06:29:46 PM
Marine1
VALVe vs. Activision Blizzard. I wonder who the gamers will support?

certainly not the factual merits of the case, that's for sure.

/my local sports team is superior to all others!
 
2010-10-25 06:31:20 PM
Theaetetus: Uakronkid: Blizzard's just mad that they didn't think to trademark it first.

Doesn't matter. Trademark is based on first usage, not first to file.


Here's how I suspect it plays out. Valve releases DOTA 2. Blizz has DOTA for SC. HoN exists. LoL exists.

No one sues anyone. No one wants to actually open that can of worms.
 
2010-10-25 06:34:57 PM
Celerian: ...

Also, Blizzard's DotA feels like it was probably more of a nod to the mod community. I haven't looked into it myself, but Blizzard isn't trying to file a copyright over it, they've simply released a version for SC2. I seriously wonder if all they did is take the latest version and update it for the SC2 engine/units/terrain. Also, it will be interesting to see if they continue to tweak and add to it, or if they'll turn it over to the DotA mod community to nurture.


Hopefully the later. I'm not a modder or anything but I do enjoy the fruits of their labor. If anything, from my perspective, moding does a few things. One, it gives games more playability. Second, in terms of WoW, it lets the developers (hopefully) focus on core game play and not get distracted by all the little things. Let the modding community build intricate UIs and add-ons.
 
2010-10-25 06:53:33 PM
People still play DOTA? WTF?

Back when I knew people who played DOTA they were to nerds as nerds are to normal people.
 
2010-10-25 06:56:23 PM
netweavr:
Here's how I suspect it plays out. Valve releases DOTA 2. Blizz has DOTA for SC. HoN exists. LoL exists.

No one sues anyone. No one wants to actually open that can of worms.


Nope - you've missed step one, which has already occurred. Valve filed for a trademark. If they get, and want to keep, that trademark, they have to enforce it.
Similarly, Blizz thinks they own DoTA. Valve filed for a trademark on it, but Blizz claims they don't own it. If they don't say anything then Valve may well own it.

Likely possibility - Valve drops the mark, Blizz takes it, and then licenses the mark to Valve for a pittance.
 
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