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(MSNBC)   Mexico is experiencing a civil war aided by the availabilty of "50 caliber machine guns" that are available "over the counter" in the United States   (msnbc.msn.com) divider line 434
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13372 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Oct 2010 at 4:09 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-10-18 07:20:40 PM
sprlpgcn: Psylence: You can buy t72's, etc... for pretty cheap. Seriously, you can buy just about anything these days if you know where to look.

That's pretty much it. But I have to admit there's a certain humor to watching the usual suspects flailing about because the Mexican cartels are taking their 'armed society is a polite society' hogwash and shoving it into a chipper-shredder.



From where I sit, they're proving it. Mexico is a case study in gun control gone mad and the consequences of it.
 
2010-10-18 07:21:01 PM
 
2010-10-18 07:25:03 PM
Valarius: Here's an interesting Wiki on gun politics in Mexico:

A good read which only goes to show how effective such restrictive gun laws really are.

JesseL: "An armed society" is not the same thing as a society with armed police or federales on one side and armed criminals on the other side, with the bulk of the disarmed citizenry in the middle.

If the cartels aren't having any problems arming themselves, then what's to stop the 'disarmed' citizenry from arming themselves? Its not like the federal government can do anything about it.

The problem is, as has been seen countless times the world over, that the spread of small arms in an anarchy doesn't help create or sustain an orderly society. Or at least any orderly society that any American would want to be a part of.
 
2010-10-18 07:29:03 PM
sprlpgcn: If the cartels aren't having any problems arming themselves, then what's to stop the 'disarmed' citizenry from arming themselves?

Well, for one thing, the cartels have money, while the citizenry is generally very poor. So, to answer your question, lack of money is what's to stop the citizenry from arming themselves, assuming they decide to defy the law (just like the cartels do).
 
2010-10-18 07:30:14 PM
sprlpgcn: The problem is, as has been seen countless times the world over, that the spread of small arms in an anarchy doesn't help create or sustain an orderly society. Or at least any orderly society that any American would want to be a part of.

That's weird, it did here in the United States. But then, I doubt any of those Americans *would* want to be part of today's "orderly society".
 
2010-10-18 07:31:17 PM
LittleSmitty: Whats your take on the P90? I've already got the 5.7 pistol... do you think the P90 is pretty much a required addition?

I love the PS90 (civilian P90 with a 16 incher instead of the 12) and the 5.7 combo. If you live in a state more friendly than mine (CA) you get the 50 round mag with the PS90/P90 and you get the 30 round extended mag for the 5.7 and you have a 1 person fire team inside of 200m. Compliment the package with an extra person and a 12ga and you are ready for just about any zombie situation.
 
2010-10-18 07:32:26 PM
davidab: LittleSmitty: Whats your take on the P90? I've already got the 5.7 pistol... do you think the P90 is pretty much a required addition?

I love the PS90 (civilian P90 with a 16 incher instead of the 12) and the 5.7 combo. If you live in a state more friendly than mine (CA) you get the 50 round mag with the PS90/P90 and you get the 30 round extended mag for the 5.7 and you have a 1 person fire team inside of 200m. Compliment the package with an extra person and a 12ga and you are ready for just about any zombie situation.


Bam.
 
2010-10-18 07:33:17 PM
sprlpgcn: If the cartels aren't having any problems arming themselves, then what's to stop the 'disarmed' citizenry from arming themselves? Its not like the federal government can do anything about it.

I don't think their government has any problem cracking down on ordinary folks who aren't inclined to fight back.

You have highlighted the deeper issue though - being armed isn't the root of what's missing. Having a core citizenry that's willing to take up arms against being victimized (by their government or the drug gangs) is what they lack.
 
2010-10-18 07:33:38 PM
sprlpgcn: Valarius: Here's an interesting Wiki on gun politics in Mexico:

A good read which only goes to show how effective such restrictive gun laws really are.

JesseL: "An armed society" is not the same thing as a society with armed police or federales on one side and armed criminals on the other side, with the bulk of the disarmed citizenry in the middle.

If the cartels aren't having any problems arming themselves, then what's to stop the 'disarmed' citizenry from arming themselves? Its not like the federal government can do anything about it.

The problem is, as has been seen countless times the world over, that the spread of small arms in an anarchy doesn't help create or sustain an orderly society. Or at least any orderly society that any American would want to be a part of.




"Any American?"

No, just you and the other trolls.

You went overboard there and tipped your hand.
 
2010-10-18 07:33:38 PM
Nocens: sprlpgcn: Psylence: You can buy t72's, etc... for pretty cheap. Seriously, you can buy just about anything these days if you know where to look.

That's pretty much it. But I have to admit there's a certain humor to watching the usual suspects flailing about because the Mexican cartels are taking their 'armed society is a polite society' hogwash and shoving it into a chipper-shredder.


From where I sit, they're proving it. Mexico is a case study in gun control gone mad and the consequences of it.


Boomity-bam-Bam-boomity?

;)
 
2010-10-18 07:36:18 PM
Simultaneous awesome is awesome.

Word twice.

;)
 
2010-10-18 07:37:25 PM
FarkinFarker: SRD: they are using select fire weapons which no american can own.

Someone with that many cool guns has to know this statement is false. You can own them, you just have to pay out the ass for the transferable guns, and jump through the various federal hoops for the privilege of doing so.


Without a SOT 2 / FFL (which is a *business* license, not an *ownership* license), you cannot personally own a G36, select fire SCAR, ACR, or any other select fire weapon created domestically after May 1986 or imported after 1968. It cannot happen. Period. His statement is therefore partially correct.

And that is unconstitutional.
 
2010-10-18 07:38:55 PM
LittleSmitty: JesseL: LittleSmitty: Crazy huh? I's a federal crime to turn a semi into a full, and so is telling someone else how to do it.

Got a cite for that last part?

bmitchell82: LittleSmitty: bmitchell82: LittleSmitty: Recoil Therapy: Except it isn't as easy as you seem to think to change semi to full auto. From what I understand (not that I've looked into it really, I don't particularly want Google keeping track of a search like that...) the lower receiver on a semi is completely different than that for a full auto (so it isn't a matter of trading out the sear) for that very reason. They're similar of course but engineered differently enough that it can't easily be done.

Although it would really be nice to be able to buy a Ma Deuce over the counter. Feeding her would be a biatch though...

If you understand how an auto works, and what it is that makes a semi auto a semi auto, it's easy. You basically remove a specific part (it's illegal to even explain what/how), but it's not hard to turn most semi autos in full auto.

It takes about 90 seconds and a frigging pair of needle nose pliers to make a Ruger mini 14 full auto.


Crazy, I didn't realize freedom of speach was already removed from the constitution, I thought it was still just in the works.

Crazy huh? I's a federal crime to turn a semi into a full, and so is telling someone else how to do it.

Citation please? On the telling someone how to do it piece... I am sure making home-made explosives is also illegal, but I can go to the library and rent a book about how to do it.

You know, I don't recall where I came by that bit of info. Just something I recall.

But if you want to temp fate and probably run afoul of the Patriot act, you can do the experiment. It stuck in my mind, wherever I heard it from.

I'll see if the Googles can provide


It's certainly not illegal to tell someone how to convert a gun to full-auto. It's simply illegal to actually do it without meeting certain requirements.

People have written books on the subject. A friend of mine gave me the first book (or one similar to it, as it looks a bit different) and Workbench Silencers as a birthday gift.

/already have a legal silencer
//silenced .22s are fun
 
2010-10-18 07:41:20 PM
SRD: Barakku: SRD: Maybe i need to go down to mexico and make some money. Just kidding as cool as my weapons may be they have much more serious stuff in mexico. They are not getting most the weapons from the US they are using select fire weapons which no american can own.


Jesus christ man, that's dangerous! Don't you have any respect for safety?! You might scratch the felt!

Sherjo311: SRD

When the zombie infestation hits, I'm coming to your house.

The table needs to be refelted so its all good. And yes everyone tells me they are going to my house when the SHTF. Little do they know im going to the guys house with a bigger arsenal than mine.



I'll help carry your hardware over
 
2010-10-18 07:44:11 PM
sprlpgcn: But I have to admit there's a certain humor to watching the usual suspects flailing about because the Mexican cartels are taking their 'armed society is a polite society' hogwash and shoving it into a chipper-shredder.

Perhaps if the good people of Mexico could go buy an OTC .50 CAL and fight back.......

Oh, wait, no, it's not good to point out that in a country with outlawed guns, only the outlaws have guns. No no, that just won't do.

/Are guns in Mexico outlawed? WTF do I know.
//Don't listen to me, I broke a shoelace this morning.

loonatic112358: is there a job opening?

No, but I here they are accepting resumes.Indubitably: I smell douche here.

Is it you?

Yes, yes, why yes, it IS you...

Douche that, biatch.

STFU yourself, dick.

Not only are you smart and big, but you're funny too. Funny reference is funny; you're big and smart too...

Blow me.

;z)


Oh, you were being SERIOUS? Then, STFU, Douche.

/Wait, no, I'm a douche for making fun of the ridiculous ascertion in the article and then assuming you were making some proto-pop culture reference and attempting to go along with it only to find out you were being serious.
//That pile of goo on the floor is the gut I just busted laughing. Anyone got a spare?
 
2010-10-18 07:45:01 PM
LittleSmitty: Funny, I watched the dude do it and then fire it. In person.

But, you win, I guess.

Feel better?


Dude, you're do full of it I wouldn't believe you if you said the pope was catholic.

What your "friend" undoubtedly had was a malfunctioning slam-firing gun using commercial ammunition with soft primers/high primers. Sure that gives the illusion of controlled full-auto fire, but that is not a machine-gun, it's a bomb.

Such modifications are unreliable and dangerous. It's like fueling your Civic with Nitromethane. Sure you'll go faster, but it's also eventually gonna blow up in your face and everyone is gonna be laughing at you for being an idiot.

You've talked about "readily convertible guns" which is false, you've talked about it being illegal to tell someone how to convert a gun, which is false. You have brought no accurate or correct information into this thread, instead of cutting your losses and just not post any more in this thread you keep trying to convince people who have actual experience with select fire weapons and their design vs semi-auto variants who are calling you out on your crap.
 
2010-10-18 07:47:03 PM
Crosshair: Dude, you're do full of it I wouldn't believe you if you said the pope was catholic.

What your "friend" undoubtedly had was a malfunctioning slam-firing gun using commercial ammunition with soft primers/high primers. Sure that gives the illusion of controlled full-auto fire, but that is not a machine-gun, it's a bomb.

Such modifications are unreliable and dangerous. It's like fueling your Civic with Nitromethane. Sure you'll go faster, but it's also eventually gonna blow up in your face and everyone is gonna be laughing at you for being an idiot.

You've talked about "readily convertible guns" which is false, you've talked about it being illegal to tell someone how to convert a gun, which is false. You have brought no accurate or correct information into this thread, instead of cutting your losses and just not post any more in this thread you keep trying to convince people who have actual experience with select fire weapons and their design vs semi-auto variants who are calling you out on your crap.


Hold on. I'm going to brew some hot tea to go with that pwnage.
 
2010-10-18 07:48:29 PM
Indubitably: brap: Thankfully, on the interwebby whenever I throw out specious and easily debunked statistics, people never bother asking me what I do for a living.

- Lobbyist for the U.S. weapons (or "peace keepers" as we prefer to call it) industry.

Indeed.

;)


i'm a super spy / marine kore sniper / playboy and i sit on 4 UN committees
 
2010-10-18 07:50:02 PM
NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: sprlpgcn: But I have to admit there's a certain humor to watching the usual suspects flailing about because the Mexican cartels are taking their 'armed society is a polite society' hogwash and shoving it into a chipper-shredder.

Perhaps if the good people of Mexico could go buy an OTC .50 CAL and fight back.......

Oh, wait, no, it's not good to point out that in a country with outlawed guns, only the outlaws have guns. No no, that just won't do.

/Are guns in Mexico outlawed? WTF do I know.
//Don't listen to me, I broke a shoelace this morning.

loonatic112358: is there a job opening?

No, but I here they are accepting resumes.Indubitably: I smell douche here.

Is it you?

Yes, yes, why yes, it IS you...

Douche that, biatch.

STFU yourself, dick.

Not only are you smart and big, but you're funny too. Funny reference is funny; you're big and smart too...

Blow me.

;z)

Oh, you were being SERIOUS? Then, STFU, Douche.

/Wait, no, I'm a douche for making fun of the ridiculous ascertion in the article and then assuming you were making some proto-pop culture reference and attempting to go along with it only to find out you were being serious.
//That pile of goo on the floor is the gut I just busted laughing. Anyone got a spare?


"Ascertion?"

WTF is that? It SOUNDS like something I'd purchase at the respectable Fail-Mart. Made in Where?

Out of what?

How so, again?

Boo.

P.S. No slashies.
 
2010-10-18 07:50:07 PM
MurphyMurphy: i'm a super spy / marine kore sniper / playboy and i sit on 4 UN committees

But you don't own a toy store, so stfu.
 
2010-10-18 07:50:30 PM
heypete: LittleSmitty: JesseL: LittleSmitty: Crazy huh? I's a federal crime to turn a semi into a full, and so is telling someone else how to do it.

Got a cite for that last part?

bmitchell82: LittleSmitty: bmitchell82: LittleSmitty: Recoil Therapy: Except it isn't as easy as you seem to think to change semi to full auto. From what I understand (not that I've looked into it really, I don't particularly want Google keeping track of a search like that...) the lower receiver on a semi is completely different than that for a full auto (so it isn't a matter of trading out the sear) for that very reason. They're similar of course but engineered differently enough that it can't easily be done.

Although it would really be nice to be able to buy a Ma Deuce over the counter. Feeding her would be a biatch though...

If you understand how an auto works, and what it is that makes a semi auto a semi auto, it's easy. You basically remove a specific part (it's illegal to even explain what/how), but it's not hard to turn most semi autos in full auto.

It takes about 90 seconds and a frigging pair of needle nose pliers to make a Ruger mini 14 full auto.


Crazy, I didn't realize freedom of speach was already removed from the constitution, I thought it was still just in the works.

Crazy huh? I's a federal crime to turn a semi into a full, and so is telling someone else how to do it.

Citation please? On the telling someone how to do it piece... I am sure making home-made explosives is also illegal, but I can go to the library and rent a book about how to do it.

You know, I don't recall where I came by that bit of info. Just something I recall.

But if you want to temp fate and probably run afoul of the Patriot act, you can do the experiment. It stuck in my mind, wherever I heard it from.

I'll see if the Googles can provide

It's certainly not illegal to tell someone how to convert a gun to full-auto. It's simply illegal to actually do it without meeting certain requirements.

People have written books on the subject. A friend of mine gave me the first book (or one similar to it, as it looks a bit different) and Workbench Silencers as a birthday gift.

/already have a legal silencer
//silenced .22s are fun


Like I said, something I picked up somewhere and filed it away in memory. And with the Patriot Act and all, it's my personal policy if nothing else.

Know a bit about silencers. My dad was a welder/machinist and made me one for my .22 a long time ago.

A two liter soda bottle makes a fairly effective one, for a shot or two

Thanks for the links, I always enjoy that kind of stuff.
 
2010-10-18 07:51:23 PM
Indubitably: "Ascertion?"

It's a new, um, line of auto that I've been designing in secret for, um, you know, zee germans, or zomething. er, something.
 
2010-10-18 07:57:18 PM
NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: Indubitably: "Ascertion?"

It's a new, um, line of auto that I've been designing in secret for, um, you know, zee germans, or zomething. er, something.


Actually, that might sell...

"I ascert my dominance via pavement, yo."

Hmm.

;)
 
2010-10-18 07:58:50 PM
weiserfireman: Over 20 years ago, I had a friend by a specific model and year of semi-automatic rifle. He paid cash to the private seller.

I won't name the country of origin or manufacturer. (it was a 5.56mm version of a european militaries standard firearm is all I will say)

When we took it out to shoot, we noticed there was a spot weld that kept the selector switch from moving past the semi-auto position.

Being the curious people we are, we disassembled the gun and reassembled it with the selector switch on the other side of the detent.

To our surprise (not), it proceeded to fire in full auto. Worked great. We fired way too much ammo. We then put the switch back the way it came when he bought it.

He let me shoot the gun many times after that, but we never put it back in full-auto again. He said he wanted to see if it would work, but it was too expensive ammo-wise, and not worth the legal risks, if he was caught with it configured for automatic.


If BATFE got a hold of that he will be doing jailtime and big fine.
 
2010-10-18 08:00:02 PM
LittleSmitty: Crosshair: LittleSmitty: If you understand how an auto works, and what it is that makes a semi auto a semi auto, it's easy. You basically remove a specific part (it's illegal to even explain what/how), but it's not hard to turn most semi autos in full auto.

It takes about 90 seconds and a frigging pair of needle nose pliers to make a Ruger mini 14 full auto.

Ah yes, the internet gun expert who can make every gun full auto.

Got some new for ya. I's not illegal to tell someone how to make a gun into a full auto. You can post high-res schematics, measurements, materials, where to get those materials. All legal, protected under first amendment. What is illegal is actually doing it.

You are also not going to make a Mini-14 into a full auto gun by removing the disconnector. First off, the firing pin on a Mini won't even touch the primer until the gun is fully in battery. Second, without the diconnector all you'll get is hammer follow which doesn't come anywhere close to delivering enough energy to the firing pin.

What you get from a broken disconnector is a broken gun.

Come back once you're actually learned how guns work

Funny, I watched the dude do it and then fire it. In person.

But, you win, I guess.

Feel better?


Are you still farking that chicken? How in the fark can you claim to be a gunsmith when you can't even tell the minor difference between TFA's "50 caliber machine guns [sic]" and NATO standard .223? It's not like IT'S OVER TWICE AS BIG or anything. Could you explain to the class how you can use anything from conversion of the mini 14 in the process of converting a gas-operated box-fed semiauto into a recoil-operated belt-fed machinegun?
 
2010-10-18 08:00:19 PM
The last big gunshow I went to (Portland, OR) was selling a m2 browning, with tripod for $12,999. Even if one bought it and it was in good working order, who could afford to shoot it?
 
2010-10-18 08:02:37 PM
Tickle Mittens: The last big gunshow I went to (Portland, OR) was selling a m2 browning, with tripod for $12,999. Even if one bought it and it was in good working order, who could afford to shoot it?

Not I, said the fly...

;)
 
2010-10-18 08:05:07 PM
davidab: LittleSmitty: Whats your take on the P90? I've already got the 5.7 pistol... do you think the P90 is pretty much a required addition?

I love the PS90 (civilian P90 with a 16 incher instead of the 12) and the 5.7 combo. If you live in a state more friendly than mine (CA) you get the 50 round mag with the PS90/P90 and you get the 30 round extended mag for the 5.7 and you have a 1 person fire team inside of 200m. Compliment the package with an extra person and a 12ga and you are ready for just about any zombie situation.


My wife has proven herself to be a better shot with the 5.7 than me.. so in that situation I'll gladly man the Saiga 12 and leave the PS90/5.7 to her!
 
2010-10-18 08:07:24 PM
HeWhoHasNoName: FarkinFarker: SRD: they are using select fire weapons which no american can own.

Someone with that many cool guns has to know this statement is false. You can own them, you just have to pay out the ass for the transferable guns, and jump through the various federal hoops for the privilege of doing so.

Without a SOT 2 / FFL (which is a *business* license, not an *ownership* license), you cannot personally own a G36, select fire SCAR, ACR, or any other select fire weapon created domestically after May 1986 or imported after 1968. It cannot happen. Period. His statement is therefore partially correct.

And that is unconstitutional.


Ah yes. I was just considering the many transferable firearms and drop-in auto sears which are available on the market. The '68 and '86 bans are real a biatch, though there are still a few older HKs out there, and quite a fear sear guns.

Some expensive toys for sale here.
 
2010-10-18 08:12:35 PM
Crosshair: LittleSmitty: Funny, I watched the dude do it and then fire it. In person.

But, you win, I guess.

Feel better?

Dude, you're do full of it I wouldn't believe you if you said the pope was catholic.

What your "friend" undoubtedly had was a malfunctioning slam-firing gun using commercial ammunition with soft primers/high primers. Sure that gives the illusion of controlled full-auto fire, but that is not a machine-gun, it's a bomb.

Such modifications are unreliable and dangerous. It's like fueling your Civic with Nitromethane. Sure you'll go faster, but it's also eventually gonna blow up in your face and everyone is gonna be laughing at you for being an idiot.

You've talked about "readily convertible guns" which is false, you've talked about it being illegal to tell someone how to convert a gun, which is false. You have brought no accurate or correct information into this thread, instead of cutting your losses and just not post any more in this thread you keep trying to convince people who have actual experience with select fire weapons and their design vs semi-auto variants who are calling you out on your crap.


I never claimed it was safe. I never said it was a smart thing to do. I never claimed anything was "readily convertible". And I never claimed to have direct knowledge of full auto weapons. What I said was it isn't that hard to make one go full auto if you understand how it works.

I watched a guy turn his mini 14 into a full auto. took him about 90 seconds. Watched it fire. Brrrrrrrp. Never once advocated doing it. Never said it was safe, never claimed anything but what I've seen done.

As for telling someone how to do it, I'll concede I was wrong. It's something I picked up somewhere, and simply filed away.

And as has been pointed out already, there is plenty of info on how to do it readily available.

Get off your high horse. This is FARK for Christ sake. Do you really expect anything remotely reasoned and logical?

I sure got under your skin though. If I ever want to troll gun threads, I know just exactly how to do it.

Feel better?
 
2010-10-18 08:15:39 PM
Indubitably: Psylence: You can buy t72's, etc... for pretty cheap. Seriously, you can buy just about anything these days if you know where to look.

Exactly.


Yea, demilled main gun dadgummit.
 
2010-10-18 08:18:50 PM
frankencj: Indubitably: Psylence: You can buy t72's, etc... for pretty cheap. Seriously, you can buy just about anything these days if you know where to look.

Exactly.

Yea, demilled main gun dadgummit.


Do YOU know where to get shells for that? I mean... here in the US that is. I'd bet if someone knew how to get ammo for such a beast they could sort out the main gun problem...

Sadly, my wife will not let me park a t72 in my backyard, even though it would be a pretty big fark you to the neighbors!
 
2010-10-18 08:22:20 PM
g4lt: LittleSmitty: Crosshair: LittleSmitty: If you understand how an auto works, and what it is that makes a semi auto a semi auto, it's easy. You basically remove a specific part (it's illegal to even explain what/how), but it's not hard to turn most semi autos in full auto.

It takes about 90 seconds and a frigging pair of needle nose pliers to make a Ruger mini 14 full auto.

Ah yes, the internet gun expert who can make every gun full auto.

Got some new for ya. I's not illegal to tell someone how to make a gun into a full auto. You can post high-res schematics, measurements, materials, where to get those materials. All legal, protected under first amendment. What is illegal is actually doing it.

You are also not going to make a Mini-14 into a full auto gun by removing the disconnector. First off, the firing pin on a Mini won't even touch the primer until the gun is fully in battery. Second, without the diconnector all you'll get is hammer follow which doesn't come anywhere close to delivering enough energy to the firing pin.

What you get from a broken disconnector is a broken gun.

Come back once you're actually learned how guns work

Funny, I watched the dude do it and then fire it. In person.

But, you win, I guess.

Feel better?

Are you still farking that chicken? How in the fark can you claim to be a gunsmith when you can't even tell the minor difference between TFA's "50 caliber machine guns [sic]" and NATO standard .223? It's not like IT'S OVER TWICE AS BIG or anything. Could you explain to the class how you can use anything from conversion of the mini 14 in the process of converting a gas-operated box-fed semiauto into a recoil-operated belt-fed machinegun?


Show me exactly where I claimed to be a gunsmith. I'll wait.

I made a simple comment that a mini 14 can be made to fire full auto. I also said there are a few others that can be made to fire full auto. I never mentioned the .50 at all.

I never said it was safe, nor did I condone doing it.

Reading comprehension, you have none.

Feel better?
 
2010-10-18 08:25:54 PM
theoriginalslash Quote 2010-10-18 07:18:08 PM
I'm getting tired of the media assholes blaming all of Mexico's shiat on us (the average, non-drug-buying public). At some point, Mexico has got to put on their big boy pants and acknowledge that large parts of their government are owned by the cartels and the rest is owned by a small number of the extremely wealthy and that's why it's such a shiathole.

>>>>>


American industry taking advantage of natural resources and cheap labor and working with the Mexican government to keep the people poor and not work hard enough to stop drug cartels is what makes Mexico a shiathole.
 
2010-10-18 08:33:26 PM
FarkinFarker:

Some expensive toys for sale here.


"Toys... This is the verbiage that makes responsible firearms owners look like nuts. Firearms are not toys.
 
2010-10-18 08:41:07 PM
Because you can't have just one photo of Helen Mirren, or a Browning .50 cal.

deceiver.com

/Hot, like older chicks with automatic weapons and a 'tude.
 
2010-10-18 08:44:26 PM
that sucks you were picked on as a kid.
 
2010-10-18 08:53:29 PM
nelsonal: brap: GaryPDX: It's my understanding they buy semi auto AR style weapons just like any one of us can do. Once they arrive in Mexico they are modified to full auto, which is really easy to do and short work in a metal shop. As far as the heavy weapons they talk about? I believe they are stolen from the Mexican Military or smuggled in from elsewhere. The ATF watches sales of those weapons pretty damned close in the States.

Of course, I could be wrong.

I have the same understanding. I find manufacturing something that is so easily convererted to full auto morally ambiguous as well.

It's not that easy, any machine shop that can do it could easily build the whole gun from scratch.


AFAIK, any weapon initially designed for full auto, you only need to acquire those parts which were substituted to make it semi-auto. You wouldn't need a machine shop.

But, any weapon not designed for full auto, it'd be really difficult to try to modify and the results could be unpredictable, like cooking off the entire mag even after the trigger is released.

I've heard people explain that full auto is kinda dumb anyways. It's wildly inaccurate and goes through a magazine in a flash. Even the military seems to emphasize the 3-round burst for unmounted weapons.
 
2010-10-18 08:59:18 PM
Maybe Mexico could erect a big fence and not let their citizens cross over to the USA to buy these weapons.
 
2010-10-18 09:00:47 PM
i509.photobucket.com

Marty! I'm sure that in your time, 50-cal machine guns can be bought at any corner drugstore, but in 1955, it's pretty hard to come by!
 
2010-10-18 09:12:52 PM
MSNBC couldn't report the facts straight of a dog pissing on a hydrant.
 
SRD [TotalFark]
2010-10-18 09:14:51 PM
HeWhoHasNoName: FarkinFarker: SRD: they are using select fire weapons which no american can own.

Someone with that many cool guns has to know this statement is false. You can own them, you just have to pay out the ass for the transferable guns, and jump through the various federal hoops for the privilege of doing so.

Without a SOT 2 / FFL (which is a *business* license, not an *ownership* license), you cannot personally own a G36, select fire SCAR, ACR, or any other select fire weapon created domestically after May 1986 or imported after 1968. It cannot happen. Period. His statement is therefore partially correct.

And that is unconstitutional.


My statement is correct. You can only own full auto weapons as a civilian which the receiver was manufactured prior to 1986. A civilian can only own full auto not select fire.

Now certain dealers can own anything. But even with the right license its a biatch to get select fire weapons you must have a dept letter head from a LEO agency that orders them. Now if you do that and they do not want the weapons you demo to them they can go back into the dealers possession for him to use.
 
2010-10-18 09:19:45 PM
LittleSmitty: g4lt: LittleSmitty: Crosshair: LittleSmitty: If you understand how an auto works, and what it is that makes a semi auto a semi auto, it's easy. You basically remove a specific part (it's illegal to even explain what/how), but it's not hard to turn most semi autos in full auto.

It takes about 90 seconds and a frigging pair of needle nose pliers to make a Ruger mini 14 full auto.

Ah yes, the internet gun expert who can make every gun full auto.

Got some new for ya. I's not illegal to tell someone how to make a gun into a full auto. You can post high-res schematics, measurements, materials, where to get those materials. All legal, protected under first amendment. What is illegal is actually doing it.

You are also not going to make a Mini-14 into a full auto gun by removing the disconnector. First off, the firing pin on a Mini won't even touch the primer until the gun is fully in battery. Second, without the diconnector all you'll get is hammer follow which doesn't come anywhere close to delivering enough energy to the firing pin.

What you get from a broken disconnector is a broken gun.

Come back once you're actually learned how guns work

Funny, I watched the dude do it and then fire it. In person.

But, you win, I guess.

Feel better?

Are you still farking that chicken? How in the fark can you claim to be a gunsmith when you can't even tell the minor difference between TFA's "50 caliber machine guns [sic]" and NATO standard .223? It's not like IT'S OVER TWICE AS BIG or anything. Could you explain to the class how you can use anything from conversion of the mini 14 in the process of converting a gas-operated box-fed semiauto into a recoil-operated belt-fed machinegun?

Show me exactly where I claimed to be a gunsmith. I'll wait.

I made a simple comment that a mini 14 can be made to fire full auto. I also said there are a few others that can be made to fire full auto. I never mentioned the .50 at all.

I never said it was safe, nor did I condone doing it.

Reading comprehension, you have none.

Feel better?


You lost all credibility when you talked about it being mythically "illegal" to explain how to convert a firearm to fully automatic, converting a Mini-14 to a "machine gun" in less than 90 minutes with a pair of pliers, an SKS being "easy" to convert, your dad just up and making an illegal unpapered suppressor for you, and a 2-liter soda bottle making a "fairly effective silencer". You're full of crap.

You're a goddamn Chairborne Ranger and everybody here who actually knows what they're talking about can tell. When you've been caught acting like an expert while spreading myths and bullshiat, and people more knowledgeable than you call you on it, it's best to cut your losses and shut up.
 
2010-10-18 09:35:19 PM
Indubitably: Nocens: From where I sit, they're proving it. Mexico is a case study in gun control gone mad and the consequences of it.

Boomity-bam-Bam-boomity?

;)


Peter, you can't speak Italian just because you have a mustache.
 
2010-10-18 09:35:22 PM
HeWhoHasNoName: LittleSmitty: g4lt: LittleSmitty: Crosshair: LittleSmitty: If you understand how an auto works, and what it is that makes a semi auto a semi auto, it's easy. You basically remove a specific part (it's illegal to even explain what/how), but it's not hard to turn most semi autos in full auto.

It takes about 90 seconds and a frigging pair of needle nose pliers to make a Ruger mini 14 full auto.

Ah yes, the internet gun expert who can make every gun full auto.

Got some new for ya. I's not illegal to tell someone how to make a gun into a full auto. You can post high-res schematics, measurements, materials, where to get those materials. All legal, protected under first amendment. What is illegal is actually doing it.

You are also not going to make a Mini-14 into a full auto gun by removing the disconnector. First off, the firing pin on a Mini won't even touch the primer until the gun is fully in battery. Second, without the diconnector all you'll get is hammer follow which doesn't come anywhere close to delivering enough energy to the firing pin.

What you get from a broken disconnector is a broken gun.

Come back once you're actually learned how guns work

Funny, I watched the dude do it and then fire it. In person.

But, you win, I guess.

Feel better?

Are you still farking that chicken? How in the fark can you claim to be a gunsmith when you can't even tell the minor difference between TFA's "50 caliber machine guns [sic]" and NATO standard .223? It's not like IT'S OVER TWICE AS BIG or anything. Could you explain to the class how you can use anything from conversion of the mini 14 in the process of converting a gas-operated box-fed semiauto into a recoil-operated belt-fed machinegun?

Show me exactly where I claimed to be a gunsmith. I'll wait.

I made a simple comment that a mini 14 can be made to fire full auto. I also said there are a few others that can be made to fire full auto. I never mentioned the .50 at all.

I never said it was safe, nor did I condone doing it.

Reading comprehension, you have none.

Feel better?

You lost all credibility when you talked about it being mythically "illegal" to explain how to convert a firearm to fully automatic, converting a Mini-14 to a "machine gun" in less than 90 minutes with a pair of pliers, an SKS being "easy" to convert, your dad just up and making an illegal unpapered suppressor for you, and a 2-liter soda bottle making a "fairly effective silencer". You're full of crap.

You're a goddamn Chairborne Ranger and everybody here who actually knows what they're talking about can tell. When you've been caught acting like an expert while spreading myths and bullshiat, and people more knowledgeable than you call you on it, it's best to cut your losses and shut up.


Ooh, got under your skin too.

You boys really need to lighten up. I mean really, this is FARK. You take this a bit too seriously.

Now take the hook out yer mouth and shaddup.

Though my dad really did machine me a silencer many years ago, and a 2 liter bottle actually does work as a decent silencer on a .22, try it.

Feel better?
 
2010-10-18 09:35:41 PM
SRD: My statement is correct. You can only own full auto weapons as a civilian which the receiver was manufactured prior to 1986.

Yes.

A civilian can only own full auto not select fire

No.

I know several people that have registered AR receivers with safe-semi-auto FCGs. Same for HKs with registered sears. What's more, a RDIAS allows for select fire in whatever compatible AR it's dropped into (thus the "drop-in" part of "registered drop-in auto sear").

The NFA qualifies anything that fires more than one shot with a single function of the trigger to be a machine gun. There's no restrictions on burst versus full-auto versus a FCG that can do safe-semi-full or safe-semi-burst or safe-semi-burst-full or whatever.

Some states and localities have retarded, obscure laws about burst versus automatic, but they're rare and, like I said, not federal.

Read the damn federal code. It's stupid, but it's not horrifically complicated. Every time somebody spreads misinformation, it makes unraveling the issue in public debate and bringing sanity back to the federal and state laws that much harder.
 
2010-10-18 09:36:39 PM
brap: Thankfully, on the interwebby whenever I throw out specious and easily debunked statistics, people never bother asking me what I do for a living.


Are you attempting to explain why you previously lied in claiming that eighty percent of firearms found in Mexico originated in the United States?
 
2010-10-18 09:42:06 PM
LittleSmitty:
Feel better?


Yep. Adding you to my ignore list was quite therapeutic.
 
2010-10-18 09:44:17 PM
HeWhoHasNoName: LittleSmitty:
Feel better?

Yep. Adding you to my ignore list was quite therapeutic.


Yay, my ignore list cherry is popped!

I've been trying to get SOMEONE to do it for years
 
2010-10-18 09:52:34 PM
The Equipment I use:

i189.photobucket.com

i189.photobucket.com

i189.photobucket.com

i189.photobucket.com

i189.photobucket.com

i189.photobucket.com

Not easily available "over the counter" in my state. I do not have a .50cal in the inventory, but would love to know where to get one "OTC", especially in full auto unlimited ammo, Hollywood, auto-aim mode.

I think I also need to head down to the local gun shop to get some "OTC" RPG's and M72 LAW Rockets pictured in the video to battle the drug cartels... Ya know 'cause there just that easy to get.
 
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