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(MSNBC)   Mexico is experiencing a civil war aided by the availabilty of "50 caliber machine guns" that are available "over the counter" in the United States   (msnbc.msn.com) divider line 427
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13371 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Oct 2010 at 4:09 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-10-18 01:15:56 PM
www.soundonsight.org

Phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range.

Hey, just what you see, pal!

/hot
 
2010-10-18 01:21:39 PM
I can buy 50s over the counter now?

It's MSNBC. That's the kind of outright bullshiat I've come to expect from them. They're the new Fox.
 
2010-10-18 01:32:13 PM
Stop it all dead in its tracks. Legalize the shiat already.
 
2010-10-18 01:40:28 PM
ok, now I want to be a federally licensed arms dealer. .50 cal machine guns over the counter!? c'mon! who actually believes that shiat?
 
2010-10-18 01:40:38 PM
Eyebleach: I can buy 50s over the counter now?

Semi-automatic or bolt-action, yes. Except in California. Although in reality, you'd probably spend months on a waiting list for a Barrett M107 or a McMillan TAC-50.

".50 caliber machine guns" that were specifically mentioned in TFA? Have fun with the ATF for the next 3 months as you try to transfer a Class III weapon from a seller, assuming you can find one.
 
2010-10-18 01:48:35 PM
no...really...what do I have to do to get a federal firearms dealer license?
 
2010-10-18 01:54:29 PM
Weaver95: no...really...what do I have to do to get a federal firearms dealer license?

About what you'd expect
 
2010-10-18 01:55:00 PM
GaryPDX: Weaver95: no...really...what do I have to do to get a federal firearms dealer license?

Fill out a form (new window) and pay 250.00 (last time I checked). Oh and endure the anal microscope background check by the ATF.


ooo...i'm off to do some reading.
 
2010-10-18 01:58:56 PM
Sgt Otter: Eyebleach: I can buy 50s over the counter now?

Semi-automatic or bolt-action, yes. Except in California. Although in reality, you'd probably spend months on a waiting list for a Barrett M107 or a McMillan TAC-50.

".50 caliber machine guns" that were specifically mentioned in TFA? Have fun with the ATF for the next 3 months as you try to transfer a Class III weapon from a seller, assuming you can find one.


The gun shop I used to visit when I lived in Arkansas had .50cal hand built sniper rifles. Damn things were about six feet long.
 
2010-10-18 02:00:53 PM
At least 80 per cent of Mexican weapons originated from the U.S. I understand nobody seems to equate arms manufacture with any sor to moral culpability but I find it rather deplorable that these manufacturers continue to get away with this bullshiate.
 
2010-10-18 02:02:25 PM
GaryPDX: Sgt Otter: Semi-automatic or bolt-action, yes.

A bolt action .50? Ouch! I'll take the Barrett, thanks.


Well, it's got one hell of a muzzle brake on it:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2010-10-18 02:03:03 PM
There was a similar, rather glaring claim in this week's edition of the Economist: Mexican waves, Californian cool (new window).

Immediately under the title, it said Three things to stop the gangs: better police in Mexico, stricter gun laws in America and legal pot in California. Yet the very first paragraph of the story reads

THERE have been gunfights outside the American school and a big private university. The mayors of two suburbs have been murdered. And a grenade has been thrown at Saturday evening strollers in a square, injuring 12.

Stricter gun control would really limit the sale of over-the-counter grenades.

/BTW, Mexico, if you policed your northern border better, maybe you could cut down on the supply of grenades handguns and scary-looking rifles.
 
2010-10-18 02:08:26 PM
brap: At least 80 per cent of Mexican weapons originated from the U.S.

[Citation Needed]

If you do get around to digging up a citation on that what we're going to see is a news report that states 80-90% of guns that Mexican law enforcement asked the ATF to trace actually came from the US.

That's not he same thing as 80% of Mexican weapons coming from the US.
 
2010-10-18 02:09:31 PM
Mexican't

I think Lester's forehead grew.
 
2010-10-18 02:11:07 PM
brap: At least 80 per cent of Mexican weapons originated from the U.S.

Bullshiat. Stop drinking the Kool-aid.
 
2010-10-18 02:11:56 PM
GaryPDX: brap: At least 80 per cent of Mexican weapons originated from the U.S. I understand nobody seems to equate arms manufacture with any sor to moral culpability but I find it rather deplorable that these manufacturers continue to get away with this bullshiate.

It's my understanding they buy semi auto AR style weapons just like any one of us can do. Once they arrive in Mexico they are modified to full auto, which is really easy to do and short work in a metal shop. As far as the heavy weapons they talk about? I believe they are stolen from the Mexican Military or smuggled in from elsewhere. The ATF watches sales of those weapons pretty damned close in the States.

Of course, I could be wrong.


you can't give facts to a gun grabber. they just ignore 'em.
 
2010-10-18 02:14:45 PM
GaryPDX: Hard bolt? wow..I imagine for some people that would be akin to being kicked by a horse.

Everybody that shoots 'em says the same thing: About like a 12 gauge slug.

SayUncle's writeup from a blogger shoot this last weekend. He brought a Zel .50BMG AR-15 upper to the event and shot it.
 
2010-10-18 02:21:19 PM
I wonder if it's worth it to get a dealer license? I'm ok with my second hand contributions to world destruction (I do work for an Evil Corporation after all), but I'd like to be a bit more hands on with the whole 'merchant of death' thing.
 
2010-10-18 02:31:18 PM
GaryPDX: jbuist: GaryPDX: Hard bolt? wow..I imagine for some people that would be akin to being kicked by a horse.

Everybody that shoots 'em says the same thing: About like a 12 gauge slug.

I've heard that about the Barrett too. I gotta try one of them thar 50's.


Better be ready to reload your own, that pet has an expensive appetite.
 
2010-10-18 02:39:31 PM
Dread Pirate Slasher: Stop it all dead in its tracks. Legalize the shiat already.
 
2010-10-18 03:06:08 PM
brap: At least 80 per cent of Mexican weapons originated from the U.S.

False. This has been debunked for a long time yet people still cite it.

Link (new window)

Likewise, Mr. Calderon's claim that 80 percent of guns used in Mexican crimes come from the United States is completely false. Most weapons seized in Mexico have traceable serial numbers that show they come from countries other than the United States. The 80 percent number reflects how many guns sent to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives for tracing end up being from America. Most weapons seized in Mexico aren't transferred to U.S. authorities, so that figure is meaningless for calculating overall totals.

Translation: 80% of the guns they sent to the ATF for tracing came from the US. However, they only send a fraction of the guns they find to the ATF because most of the ones they find do not come from the US. Not to mention quite a few of those guns are ones that were sold legally into Mexico and were diverted once they left the US.
 
2010-10-18 03:07:57 PM
I seem to recall that drug groups like the Zetas were former special forces in the Mexican military who realized that drug running was more profitable and they walked away with tons of weaponary which of course was sold to the Mexicans by the US.
 
2010-10-18 03:10:24 PM
GaryPDX: Sgt Otter: GaryPDX: Sgt Otter: Semi-automatic or bolt-action, yes.

A bolt action .50? Ouch! I'll take the Barrett, thanks.

Well, it's got one hell of a muzzle brake on it:

Is it gas recoil? No? Hard bolt? wow..I imagine for some people that would be akin to being kicked by a horse.


I haven't shot one of those, but I have fired a Desert Eagle .50AE, which is the same caliber round but with a LOT less oomph behind it. Shooting at an outdoor range, the bullet kicked up such a massive cloud of sand and dirt from the backstop that I christened the gun "The Plow".

Recoil wasn't as bad as you'd expect (the 9 year old did it, and of course he loved it).
 
2010-10-18 03:10:41 PM
GaryPDX: I can see you now..lol.

I enjoyed that movie.
 
2010-10-18 03:24:34 PM
GaryPDX: It's my understanding they buy semi auto AR style weapons just like any one of us can do. Once they arrive in Mexico they are modified to full auto, which is really easy to do and short work in a metal shop. As far as the heavy weapons they talk about? I believe they are stolen from the Mexican Military or smuggled in from elsewhere. The ATF watches sales of those weapons pretty damned close in the States.

Of course, I could be wrong.


I have the same understanding. I find manufacturing something that is so easily convererted to full auto morally ambiguous as well.
 
2010-10-18 03:29:16 PM
Sgt Otter: GaryPDX: Sgt Otter: Semi-automatic or bolt-action, yes.

A bolt action .50? Ouch! I'll take the Barrett, thanks.

Well, it's got one hell of a muzzle brake on it:


We fired about 15 rounds through a bolt-action Barrett prone in one spot and it completely cleaned the ground beside the muzzle for about 4 feet. I also noticed that if I stood too close the side while someone else was firing, the redirected muzzle blast would kinda sting when it hit my lower legs.

I've never gotten to fire a full auto .50, but I've watched many of them at invitational shoots. My favorites out of all that I've seen and not fired were the .22 gatlings and the air-powered auto golfball shooters. The most fun auto I've ever shot is, by far, the good old drummed .45 Tommy. The little Uzis, MACs and their variants, auto-Glocks and such are absolutely worthless as crap. Dangerous little bastards.
 
2010-10-18 03:35:57 PM
BillCo: Bullshiat. Stop drinking the Kool-aid.

Didn't you know? We started manufacturing AK-47s over here.
 
2010-10-18 03:37:19 PM
brap: I find manufacturing something that is so easily convererted to full auto morally ambiguous as well.

Under US law a semi-automatic design must not be readily convertible to full auto. What that means in concrete terms is difficult to nail down, but the ATF will plug the plug on a design if they deem it readily convertible.

Basically if you've got the equipment and skill to turn a semi-auto AR-15 receiver into full-auto then you could probably do the same with a raw chunk of aluminum.
 
2010-10-18 03:39:16 PM
Except it isn't as easy as you seem to think to change semi to full auto. From what I understand (not that I've looked into it really, I don't particularly want Google keeping track of a search like that...) the lower receiver on a semi is completely different than that for a full auto (so it isn't a matter of trading out the sear) for that very reason. They're similar of course but engineered differently enough that it can't easily be done.

Although it would really be nice to be able to buy a Ma Deuce over the counter. Feeding her would be a biatch though...
 
2010-10-18 03:42:25 PM
brap: GaryPDX: It's my understanding they buy semi auto AR style weapons just like any one of us can do. Once they arrive in Mexico they are modified to full auto, which is really easy to do and short work in a metal shop. As far as the heavy weapons they talk about? I believe they are stolen from the Mexican Military or smuggled in from elsewhere. The ATF watches sales of those weapons pretty damned close in the States.

Of course, I could be wrong.

I have the same understanding. I find manufacturing something that is so easily convererted to full auto morally ambiguous as well.


I've got a couple of Russian rifles that were once automatics that were converted to semi prior to importation in the 70s. While they were imported specifically as 'semi-automatics', the machine work on the receiver as well as the bolt block to engage the seer are all still present. The safe/fire selector was modified to prevent the seer lever from contacting the bolt block during a firing cycle. It would take me about 45 minutes of rough work, overnight carburizing, and about 30 minutes of fitting to convert them to use a nearly factory identical selector, if I wanted. Which I don't.
 
2010-10-18 03:42:28 PM
Eyebleach: The most fun auto I've ever shot is, by far, the good old drummed .45 Tommy.

I can see that; standing there, spraying the range with lead screaming, "YOU'LL NEVER TAKE ME ALIVE, COPPER!"

/good times
 
2010-10-18 03:47:27 PM
i221.photobucket.com

Francisco 'Pancho' Villaan and Emiliiano Zapata approve of a revolution


The situation looks pretty bad down there.
 
2010-10-18 03:51:45 PM
That would be Francisco 'Pancho' Villa.
 
2010-10-18 03:59:29 PM
jbuist: brap: I find manufacturing something that is so easily convererted to full auto morally ambiguous as well.

Under US law a semi-automatic design must not be readily convertible to full auto. What that means in concrete terms is difficult to nail down, but the ATF will plug the plug on a design if they deem it readily convertible.

Basically if you've got the equipment and skill to turn a semi-auto AR-15 receiver into full-auto then you could probably do the same with a raw chunk of aluminum.


THIS

New production "Readily convertible" gun have been illegal for decades. Of course old production "Readily convertible" guns can still be legally owned, but they typically fetch a huge premium due to the collector value. The last open bolt semi-auto MAC-10 45 ACP I saw fetched over $1,500 for the gun. A modern closed bolt variant will go for a third of that.

If you have the tooling to convert a semi-auto into a full auto, then you would be better off just building the gun from scratch.
 
2010-10-18 04:00:57 PM
AlwaysRightBoy: That would be Francisco 'Pancho' Villa.

Francisco 'Pancho' Villa is still dead.
 
2010-10-18 04:12:07 PM
vernonFL: Phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range.

Hey, just what you see, pal!

/hot



I might close early today.
 
2010-10-18 04:13:57 PM
I dunno. I guess I just like Mexico and think it's sad. I'm not here to jack off over the petty semantics of the international weapons trade and their apologists.
 
2010-10-18 04:13:59 PM
Way to push that gun control agenda, MSNBC.
 
2010-10-18 04:14:18 PM
i51.tinypic.com

Terrifying. Is that .50 cal TP?!

/commercial? *CLOSE*
 
2010-10-18 04:14:23 PM
I can buy a 50 cal machine gun OTC?

Where? I'd like one.
 
2010-10-18 04:14:24 PM
brap: GaryPDX: It's my understanding they buy semi auto AR style weapons just like any one of us can do. Once they arrive in Mexico they are modified to full auto, which is really easy to do and short work in a metal shop. As far as the heavy weapons they talk about? I believe they are stolen from the Mexican Military or smuggled in from elsewhere. The ATF watches sales of those weapons pretty damned close in the States.

Of course, I could be wrong.

I have the same understanding. I find manufacturing something that is so easily convererted to full auto morally ambiguous as well.


It's not that easy, any machine shop that can do it could easily build the whole gun from scratch.
 
2010-10-18 04:14:32 PM
Well I for one am glad that we're making some money on this. Better us than the Russians.

Also, legalize weed and deport meth heads to Mexico.
 
2010-10-18 04:14:40 PM
The_Sponge: Way to push that gun control agenda, MSNBC.

Facts and reality do not corroborate the claims of advocates of civilian disarmament. Consequently, such advocates must instead lie as a means of attaining public support for their agenda.
 
2010-10-18 04:14:50 PM
Well yeah...but they're used strictly for hunting.
 
2010-10-18 04:15:11 PM
The only thing I saw was an Asian chick and a possibly Italian chick smiling in a Crest toothpaste ad. I do have reservations about firing a .50 though unless it was bolted down to something secure.
 
2010-10-18 04:15:34 PM
You know why wages are so cheap in Mexico? Because life is cheap in Mexico. If you aren't one of those with money--either in the elite or the cartels or both--you're shiat. And if the priests speak to you of Christianity being an engine of economic change, the Pope himself will chide them and then your countrymen will murder them and their parishioners.

Murder is what it is all about. It is not about drugs or illegal aliens. It's about murder. That's why an illegal shot a Phoenix cop in the face and left him to die on the street. And that's why the Phoenix cops murdered that illegal in the street when they caught up with him.
 
2010-10-18 04:15:50 PM
Down in the west Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican gun.
 
2010-10-18 04:16:07 PM
Why don't the mexican cartels just buy a bunch of weapon making machinery and make their own machine guns? How hard could it be if you have billions of dollars?
 
2010-10-18 04:16:08 PM
Honest Bender: Terrifying. Is that .50 cal TP?!

/commercial? *CLOSE*


Jerk. Your commercial looks more amusing than the toothpaste one I saw.
 
2010-10-18 04:16:21 PM
Let me know when I can mount a pair of 50's on my fenders.
 
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