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(   Senator Orrin Hatch wants to make it legal for companies to destroy computers of illegal music downloaders   ( divider line
    More: PSA  
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10607 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jun 2003 at 11:06 PM (14 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

423 Comments     (+0 »)

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2003-06-18 12:30:26 AM  

The "Product" is the CD. You are free to make copies for backup and private use.

You cannot redistribute it legally to people without a license. If one cannot verify they have a license, and they obtain a copy they/you are in violation.

MY point is...quit stealing shiat that doesn't belong to you.
2003-06-18 12:30:27 AM  
** aoime
Celebrity I resemble most: "Special Agent Dana Scully." **

2003-06-18 12:30:38 AM  
Antialias: What sort of music are you gonna record?

Check your email...I don't want to be accused of threadjacking. :)
2003-06-18 12:31:20 AM  
I think the record companies shouldnt have put so much of their survival in cds....kinda like Priceline shouldnt have put so much of their survival in...whatever it was they did.

record companies now have an outdated business model that no longer functions for the digital age.

Movie studios also have their works pirated, but they dont have the staggering losses that record labels have....

Basically...poor planning on their part doesnt constitute a congressional act on my computer
2003-06-18 12:33:08 AM  
And the DMCA has made it illegal to circumvent copy protection, which in turn makes it illegal to make yourself a backup copy. Check and mate.

And since none of my CDs are copy protected, I'm not guilty of violating the DMCA.

In your face, RIAA!
2003-06-18 12:33:32 AM  
What an assHatch.
2003-06-18 12:33:33 AM  
What Hatch is proposing would be illegal. Can a Senator advocating the commission of a crime be censured for it?
2003-06-18 12:33:42 AM  
It was good knowing you Hytes. Try to write once in a while.
And don't be nobody's bytch.
2003-06-18 12:34:12 AM  
And the DMCA has made it illegal to circumvent copy protection, which in turn makes it illegal to make yourself a backup copy.

Um, no. If there is no copy protection on a CD, then it's perfectly legal to make a backup copy. Fair use. Maybe you've heard of it. Been around for awhile now.

The DMCA only comes into play for copy protected works.

Incidentally, I have never and will never buy copy protected CDs.
2003-06-18 12:34:25 AM  
Hytes Xian: Yes, when one downloads mp3s one is, by legal definition, a thief. But I feel that certain, particular laws are unjust and I break them out of civil disobedience. I don't drive drunk or assault people, even when I want to, because I believe that it is wrong to do so. And were I caught doing so, I would feel that arrest and prosecution were just and fair. But laws, such as defining recorded music as "work for hire," or the criminization of marijuana use, are neither just nor fair and I stridently oppose them.

/semi off-topic preaching
2003-06-18 12:34:42 AM  
Wow Nanookanano! You win the award for best bullshiat argument for the "virtues of a capitalist, free market ecnomic democracy" You also scored extra points for talking down to everyone! Way to go!

The argument has nothing to do with the poor struggling artists who are get their music ripped off by their fans.

(Personally, if I were a musician and I really cared about my art and wanted it to reach as many people as possible I don't think I'd care too much if they were downloading it as opposed to buying it. Hell, at least they're hearing it, which is why musicians write and record music in the first place)

Anyway, the argument is about whether or not file sharing is stealing or not. Now, whether the RIAA and Metallica likes it or not, the world has changed. I consider the people of my community to be not only the neighbours in my immediate vicinity but the folks I interact with on the phone and on the internet. FARKers are my neighbours, people I share files with are people who share a similar interest as me, they're part of the online community. They're neighbours too.

Now don't you think it's ridiculous to say that if I borrow my neighbours' garden hose that I'm stealing rubber from the rubber tree farmer and that I'm stealing a sale away from my local Canadian Tire?

Or to make it more in line with your argument, if my neighbour gives me some of his homegrown tomatoes and I take the seeds from those tomatoes and I plant them and grow my own tomatoes, am I stealing seeds from White Rose Nursery? Of course not. Use your brain.

2003-06-18 12:35:24 AM  
Fark Hatch, And all the asshats in Washington taking bribes from the entertainment rackets. Don't buy their crap.
jbc [TotalFark]
2003-06-18 12:35:24 AM  

Jealous because I won't share the music I paid for with you? I can burn an unlimited number of CDs by changing the playlist, yet I only need 2 (one for home/car and one for work) and still play it off my hard drive as well. I can also put a converted CD into another computer and it doesn't know the difference. The copy protection does not affect me in the slightest.

Try again. Better yet, Think Different.
2003-06-18 12:37:01 AM  
Isn't Hatch's son or nephew on the legal team that on SCO's side in the big lawsuit against IBM? That would make sense: Orrin wants destructive DRM, his kin is helping a bunch of moneygrabbers in their (self-destructing) quest to cripple Linux and the Open Source movement...

What a family!
2003-06-18 12:37:27 AM  
Actually Antialias, I look forward to the streetcorner kiosk that will offer a menu of music that will play samples, and that will burn your selections onto a CD for you there and then, reading your money card for a small debit.

But then, such machines already exist.
2003-06-18 12:37:34 AM  
I can't help but wonder how it's possible for a computer to be destroyed by downloading an MP3...
2003-06-18 12:37:48 AM  
Sidi - Beaverfever CD's are dirt cheap to produce. Much, much less than $2.50 (the CD alone is under 10 cents). Of course, there are a lot of other overhead costs that really add up.

Yes, the other overhead costs include recording (which can often cost hundreds of thousands of dollars). Besides, the entertainment industry is made up of businesses, trying to make money.

But why the hell can a movie company sell a DVD at virtually the same price as a CD and make a profit if CD's are just scraping by? The DVD has all the same distribution overhead, it's a more expensive medium to produce, and it costs a hell of a lot more money to shoot and edit a full-length movie than it will ever cost to do a music CD.

How do we know movie studios don't have smaller profit margin on DVDs? Besides, DVDs (as well as video cassettes and TV broadcasts) are the modern version of second-run movie theatres from the days of yore. Most movies will have had a fair injection of cash into their balance sheet long before the DVD hits the shelf - DVDs are gravy, really. Many of the extras would exist whether DVDs existed or not (movies have always had alternate takes/endings/etc.), so the studio just needs to whip up the interviews (which would cost nearly $zilch) and a GUI ($zilch).

Also, in terms of business risk, one could argue that selling CDs is much riskier than DVDs - music companies take huge risks selling music/style/culture, but movie companies will have a pretty good idea how their DVD will do by gauging the box-office draw, which would affect their investment and lower their risk.

Finally, DVDs could be priced to sell - for the time being. Once video cassettes are totally dead, will you be surprised to see DVD prices rise drastically - surely it will coincide with HDTV standardization which will tidily provide a cover story for price hikes.
2003-06-18 12:38:39 AM  
Many of the newer CDs come with copy protection, and if memory serves, one of the major labels was putting copy protection on to every single CD they sold. But I think it was cracked about a week before the first CD hit the market.

Such is life in the world of the severely misguided RIAA.
2003-06-18 12:38:56 AM  
What if I were to download amateur porn off of P2P? Would it still be an illegal file just because it was taken from a file-sharing network in the first place (assuming my knowledge of "amateur" defines it as being home-made mainly without the intent or means of profit)?
2003-06-18 12:39:08 AM  
Wow AburKadabur! You win the award for best gratuitous, snarky trolling! You also scored extra points for insulting someone in a thread where everyone else is being civil! Way to go!
2003-06-18 12:39:39 AM  

If you make your garden hose miraculously available to anyone in the world for free, then YES. You are stealing from the hose-maker.
2003-06-18 12:39:43 AM  
Theculturedredneck: if the libertarian party was in control this shiat would never happen. goverment has no right to destroy personal propety over something as trivial as downloading a cd. i am waiting for the day when the people of this country will rise up agenst this corrupt goverment and finally live by the constuation
2003-06-18 12:41:06 AM  
I'm not here to "win" Abur. But you probably wouldn't understand my actual motives, anyway.

Your neighbor is lending you a garden hose that he borrowed from somebody who borrowed it from somebody who . .

. . who borrowed it from somebody who stold it.

You're a thief.
(And, I'm not talking down to everybody, just you.)
2003-06-18 12:42:11 AM  
Evil_Urna: i am waiting for the day when the people of this country will rise up agenst this corrupt goverment and finally live by the constuation

Hell, sign me up for the revolution.
2003-06-18 12:42:14 AM  
So tell me you cats in Utah will vote this dirtbag repub out next time he comes up to bat. Even repub farkers should see the folly of this scumbag.

/late to thread ("traffic was a biatch")
2003-06-18 12:42:14 AM  
Or, more properly, you're a receiver of stolen property.

I'm sure that makes all the difference in the world to you.
2003-06-18 12:42:58 AM  
Hey, I've got an idea. Why doesn't somebody put together a website where you can download all the songs you want for a $1 each? Doesn't that seem like a fair and reasonable way to go about it?
2003-06-18 12:43:10 AM  
In accepting this award I'd like to thank all of the little holier-than-thou automatons out there who think their shiat don't stink. Oh and the Academy.
2003-06-18 12:43:53 AM  
There was a copy protection scheme that was out very briefly. It was intended to keep computers from playing music CD's so that you couldn't rip tracks. The super high tech means of defeating the copy protection was to use black sharpie pen and color the outer 1/8 inch of the CD which blacked out the copy protection. What this meant was that since sharpie pens could be used to defeat copy protection, they were illegal under the DMCA.
2003-06-18 12:44:06 AM  
Consider this situation:

Music-loving Scientist: "Eureka! I have discovered the cure for the cold, all cancers, AIDS, SARS, and West Nile Virus. I must send this information to my colleges. But first, a celebration. I will play my favorite MP3 I downloaded from Kazaa and--What the fark?!" The Orrin Hatch Computer Virus initiates wiping the scientist's hardrive then attacking the network and all his e-mail contacts "NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! PLANET EARTH DOOMED TO A GERMY FATE AND I'M NOT EVEN A TERRORIST! DAMN YOU ORRIN HATCH! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!"
2003-06-18 12:44:34 AM  
On a diiferent topic....

If could be a superhero, I would be "Justice Guy" and I would make Orrin asshatch die of the plague, or skin him and drain him and watch him die
2003-06-18 12:45:25 AM  
From now on, I suggest we refer to Orrin hatch as "AssHatch"....anyone second the motion?
2003-06-18 12:46:10 AM  
seconded that
2003-06-18 12:46:20 AM  
(Thiefs always, always, always think they're more clever than honest folk. The truth is, they're lacking something in their brain, something the rest of us are very glad we have.)
2003-06-18 12:46:23 AM  
Or maybe repubs would like to elect yet another sub-100 IQ candidate to office, like your past successes (note great successes such as Reagan, Quale, and Bush II).
2003-06-18 12:46:27 AM  
What about those miraciulous tomatoes? Is planting seeds from a gifted plant stealing?

2003-06-18 12:46:29 AM  

I've got the week off, I'll pick you up in 10 minutes... with a trunk full of helium, baby!
2003-06-18 12:46:46 AM  
I second.
2003-06-18 12:46:47 AM  

Apple, of all companies, has set up a store in which you can do just that. And there is actually a pretty good variety of music to choose from, unlike the 'services' the record companies have tried as of late. Unfortunately, it is Mac only at this point, but it is supposed to come to Windows in a few months.
2003-06-18 12:46:48 AM  
Young_Fart: There are sites that offer that service, but the problem I always have - and why I often download songs - is that I can't find the music I want for love or money. Sometimes things are obscure or out of print, and P2P sharing is the only way to get a copy. Not that I'm trying to rationalize. Yes RIAA, I'm "stealing."
2003-06-18 12:47:18 AM  

the bottom line is that it is blatantly copyright infringement to download music. but...

it isn't their god-given right to hav the business model they choose. the world is a fluid and changing place, they cannot expect to be the gatekeepers growing fat on a monopoly forever. ok, it is against the law... but should it be? in the current climate, they literally control music. they control what is produced and played, what is promoted and what is distributed. they have abused this, and the market is reacting.

They aren't going to be able to choose what is popular for much longer, and that pisses them off.
2003-06-18 12:47:44 AM  
Ask the thief taking your tv if he has a good reason. Ask the kid pocketing some candy if he has a good reason. Ask the accountant moving a few numbers around if he has a good reason. Ask any thief if he has a good reason. A criminal will always justify his crime.

Hate to spit 'n' run, but I'm heading for bed since I'm through eating my ice cream. NO, I didn't smuggle it out of the store in my butt! I paid for it. And then I put it in my butt. And now it's on its way there again. Life is a wondrous circle, no?
2003-06-18 12:48:41 AM  
Deluge: Aye!

AssHatch it is.
2003-06-18 12:48:55 AM  
Did you buy the seeds from the local Seed And Feed?

No, you ""borrowed"" them.
I'm sure you'll return them when you're done.
2003-06-18 12:49:19 AM  

the bottom line is that it is blatantly copyright infringement to download music

Not if you own a copy already.
2003-06-18 12:49:51 AM  

Very good point....they gotta change with the times, they cant fight the internet,

just like communism cant fight capitalism, that is why Vietnam is trying to change their approach, without changing their system.
2003-06-18 12:49:52 AM  
I always thought that the rules of supply and demand took care of a market economy... for instance, if I think that a Coke is worth $1, I'll pay $1 for it. If the vendor wants $5 and will not accept my $1, then I've got to pony up the money or not have a Coke.

Now with this MP3 deal we have a whole new model... Company says 8 songs by "Band X" are worth $20, I say 1 song by "Band X" may be worth something but I'm not interested in the whole album. They say, "Tough Luck" - I rip a MP3 from Kazaa. "Band X" loses contract, company keeps on going and I get to listen to Senator Hatch talk about blowing up my computer.

Point of the story is, I don't think the old model or the current model will work any more. Surely someone's got an idea on this...
2003-06-18 12:50:15 AM  
Stupid bastard.. fark orrin ugly bastard
2003-06-18 12:51:07 AM  

yeah, i know... i just thought that downloading music you don't own was assumed in the context of the discussion.

you're right either way.
2003-06-18 12:51:12 AM  


I agree with your comment, however.

/playing grammar asshat
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