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(heraldnet.com)   Senator Orrin Hatch wants to make it legal for companies to destroy computers of illegal music downloaders   (heraldnet.com) divider line 423
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10601 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jun 2003 at 11:06 PM (11 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2003-06-17 11:50:16 PM  
SpaceCoyote: See, that's what I'm talking about. There are more ways around this type of nonsense then there are watchdogs to spy on people. That's why millions of people don't pay as much in taxes as they are supposed to, regardless of whether they did it intentionally, and hardly any get caught. Even though the IRS is the single largest agency in the US government (to the best of my knowledge) it's just too monumental a task to keep up with everything.
 
2003-06-17 11:50:24 PM  
If you download mp3's, you have prevented the record label and the musician from earning money they could have had, had you bought the CD. It's stealing, just like eating at Burger King is stealing from McDonalds. Just like all of you are stealing from me by not giving me $10 each, right now. That could be money in my pocket, damn you!
 
2003-06-17 11:51:03 PM  
GimpRulez just be glad you weren't banned for 60 hours *shudders*. I will never insult bands on Fark again.

The personals are just not a good match for Fark. They're just too tempting of a target, and people can't resist commenting/insulting. I don't think Drew is able to dedicate a comments section specifically to the ads, because I'm sure the people paying him to run them would shiat their pants if they saw half the things people say about them. Putting them all in one thread would just be asking for trouble.
 
2003-06-17 11:51:04 PM  
I can't read through all that, but question to whoever replied to me.

Er.. how can you put a trojan in an mp3? And no, it really is a serious question.
 
2003-06-17 11:51:43 PM  
GimpRulez: Farker posts on Fark. Post gets deleted. Hilarity ensues?
 
2003-06-17 11:51:54 PM  
Bonobo62 just hit the nail on the head. Just because you could have had money in your pocket does not mean you should have had money in your pocket.
 
2003-06-17 11:52:50 PM  
Christ, no one tell him, I don't want to download the latest Kenny G and get fried....oh, wait, if I'm downloaded the G, I'd deserve that
 
2003-06-17 11:52:59 PM  
I get you, Dmd.
Tell me, is there a qualitative difference between the audio resolution of a downloaded track and one from a CD?
 
2003-06-17 11:53:10 PM  
Sidi

60 hours? Try getting banned for 90...DAYS. You realize how much Fark is like a narcotic that you are hopelessly addicted to. I think I actually had withdrawal symptoms.
 
2003-06-17 11:53:36 PM  
Having music be free is actually a great boost to the US economy. For instance, if food were to suddenly be free, the farmers and packaging workers etc. would be out of business but everyone else would benefit immensely, more than enough to make up for it.

Think of it this way, if oxygen were to suddenly become a commodity that needed to be pumped to our homes for money, it would create oxygen pumping jobs, oxygen plant jobs, etc. but it definitely would force our economy to suffer because we would be forced to pay for a commodity that used to be free.
 
2003-06-17 11:53:59 PM  
Changing the channel during a commercial break is not stealing.

If I'm not mistaken, one of the PVR makers (Tivo, Replay, can't remember which) is/was being sued over this very principle. They built an automatic commercial skip into their product and are being dragged into the courts over it. Somehow, the wording of the suit is that avoiding commercials is illegal.

Just one site with the story.
 
2003-06-17 11:54:08 PM  
Fark Insta Poll: Who thinks Hatch is actually the Grinch?
 
2003-06-17 11:54:29 PM  
You know, I just had an idea that I daresy is rather clever.

Why not download the songs you want, then send a $10 check to THE BAND THEMSELVES, and cut the record company out of the loop? You wouldn't have to tell them what it was for, just say it's a donation. Then you pay for the music, AND fvck the record company. >:)
 
2003-06-17 11:54:37 PM  
"There's no excuse for anyone violating copyright laws," Hatch said.

...in theory, the sales of DVD recorders, Tivos, VCRs, blank CDs, blank audio and video cassettes are also violating copyright laws.

DUH!
 
2003-06-17 11:55:15 PM  
Doesn't affect me at all. I'm on a Mac.
 
2003-06-17 11:55:17 PM  
Food (and music) is free . . if you produce it yourself.
 
2003-06-17 11:55:40 PM  
If you download mp3's, you have prevented the record label and the musician from earning money they could have had, had you bought the CD. I

what if you already own the cd but it's just faster for you to download mp3 copies so that you can make a backup (or you're just too lazy to rip all the files)

or say the cd you bought is slightly damaged...should you absolutely have to buy it again when you've already paid for it once, or should you be allowed to just download it and burn it, you've already bought the cd once

I mean say my car got broken into (it did) and some jackass appeared to have gleefully run glass along some of my cds (s/he did) should I have to go out and buy a new copy when I've already purchased the cd once, or should I be allowed to download the mp3s...burn it to disk and just keep that in the jewel case of the now destroyed cd?
 
2003-06-17 11:56:05 PM  
Nanookanano: The difference in quality between a CD track and an mp3 is undetectable by most people's hearing.
 
2003-06-17 11:56:07 PM  
Hmmm... I wanna come up with a rationalization for Hatch's little scheme. The closest I can come up with is that the instrument used in the commission of a crime is confiscated: vehicle used to smuggle drugs - impounded. Drug paraphanelia confiscated during a bust... But that's all I can come up with. Anyone have any alternatives? I mean it's one thing for the companies to be looking after their interests, but to do this by destroying property? There's gotta be a middle ground...
 
2003-06-17 11:56:18 PM  
The train left the station on this one a long time ago. Yes, it is stealing. But there's no stopping it. It has gotten far too popular to argue as a moral issue, it just doesn't inspire guilt in those that do it. And that's all there is to it.
 
2003-06-17 11:56:44 PM  
Nanookanano, well just imagine if we could have our favorite food on demand just by replicating it from an already existing sample.
 
2003-06-17 11:56:52 PM  
Antialias, somebody told me there was a website that allows you to send money directly to the band/singer of your choice. I never did find out if it exists or not, though.
 
2003-06-17 11:56:58 PM  
06-17-03 11:28:38 PM Sidi

Thanks for clearing that up. I knew there was something I didn't like about this guy. I mean, besides his jack-booted fascist politics.
 
2003-06-17 11:57:11 PM  
Nanookanano

There is a huge difference. I have ripped all of my CDs to MP3 encoded at 192 kbps in order to place them onto my MP3 player. This is pretty much the highest feasible bit rate that you can hope for. In fact, 128 is the standard. An audio CD plays at something like 320 kbps. The difference is huge. An MP3 is considered a lossy compression format, which means that you lose audio quality. What the makers of the codecs try to do is get the MP3 to lose quality that the human ear cannot hear, but some is invariably lost, and the sound is noticeably different. In fact, it's different enough to warrant getting the actual CD.
 
2003-06-17 11:57:44 PM  
Can I rip out Orrin Hatch's lungs if he breathes air that I own without paying me?
 
2003-06-17 11:58:02 PM  
Tuna762 I thought those numbers were IPs for a second there... :>
 
2003-06-17 11:58:22 PM  
Mattamox that's only in the case of drug crimes though. Basically the police weren't allowed to confiscate anything used for the commission of a crime (other than as evidence) until the drug "war" came along and they got their spiffy new powers.
 
2003-06-17 11:58:30 PM  
I think I saw an announcement that Tivo is removing the commercial skip feature from their boxes.

Also, I saw a comparison between the slump in music sales versus the overall economy. Guess what? They matched. It seems that the economic slowdown applies to music sales as well. Go figure. However, the RIAA still insists it's piracy.

I have a better defintion of piracy: Spending $20 on a CD that has maybe one song worth damn and 40 minutes of filler crap.
 
2003-06-17 11:59:14 PM  
Mattamox, the drug war is bullshiat anyways, and another irrational injustice that needs to be confronted.
 
2003-06-17 11:59:44 PM  
Dmd8605: No, there is a huge difference to you. I'm not hard of hearing or anything, but I can't tell the difference. I have a friend who's a DJ, she can tell the difference. But many people can't. Seriously.
 
2003-06-17 11:59:54 PM  
Just imagine if you had to buy water . . (chuckle) . . in bottles . . (snort) . . just to have water that's clean enought to drink!

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Imagine!
 
2003-06-18 12:00:07 AM  
"What we eventually want is the elimination of joy, in any fashion, except through Jesus," added Sen. Hatch.

Okay, I made that up.
But you know he's thinking it.
 
2003-06-18 12:00:29 AM  
so, will the US government keep a catalogue of all the vinyl albums, 45s, cassettes and CDs I own so that they can compare against my download history?
 
2003-06-18 12:00:36 AM  
GimpRulez, Both parties are guilty of catering to RIAA payola. Look up Fritz Hollings.

Hey, Disney paid for their Senator, fair and square!
 
2003-06-18 12:00:55 AM  
And I seriously would like some opinions here. If you download music, but then you send money to the artist, is it stealing?
 
2003-06-18 12:00:56 AM  
Sidi, I believe the gov'ts reasoning for confiscating property of drug dealers is that the property was paid for by drug money, which avoided taxation thus cheating the government. They could probably use the exact same law to steal our computers for downloading copyrighted material.
 
2003-06-18 12:01:23 AM  
So, Dmd and Anti, my question to you is; is the CD production technology dead? Should we purchase from E-vendors who get their wares directly from the mixing studios?
 
2003-06-18 12:01:39 AM  
About all this shiat that CD sales are slumping, I say horse hockey. If it weren't for some of those songs I downloaded I wouldn't have purchased those 50+ CDs I did last year.
 
2003-06-18 12:01:42 AM  
hmm. i remember being a little boy in the 80's before internet and computers were useful(my friend and i would stay up all night programming hangman into a commodore vic). what did you do if you heard a song you liked and wanted a copy of it? you recorded it off the radio with a tape recorder or you dubbed it from a buddy's tape. even before computers, people were finding ways to transfer information. what if they made it illegal to have a tape recorder because you might record a song?

this is not about property as much as it is about culture and who really owns our culture, the people or the people who create it? i believe the people own the culture. just because 50 cent comes up with a rap that people like doesn't entitle him to blow up a person's computer if they download it. a song by its nature is not property. if i hear a song i like i can start singing it in my head and not pay any royalties at all, what makes it different if i keep a copy on my computer? isn't it the same thing? how can people say that you can own an idea? 50 cent is making his money, trust me- concerts, appearances, etc. if we just paid him for his raps, it wouldn't cost us much, but instead we have to pay all his middle men and flunkies who overprice and try to leech off his talents. where are the senators calling for the music industry to regulate itself?

i just have always found copyright to be a very slippery slope. sure, i believe people are entitled to their money, but also i find it hard to swallow the fact i can't draw mickey mouse without being sued. how can someone own an idea? its just not right. sometimes, culture overrides copyright or intellectual property rights. sometimes, works of art or music become the property of our society and not just the person who made it. if i want to draw mickey freaking mouse i should be allowed to draw him. i should also be allowed to keep it on my computer without worrying it will be blown up for being there.
 
2003-06-18 12:02:16 AM  
This debate hasn't even touched on the fact that the RIAA is desperately holding on to a business model that has collapsed. And they are willing to sue to maintain it, despite the market's wishes.

Why don't you see many blacksmiths anymore? Because the market has determined they aren't needed.

The RIAA cannot see that they are old and unneeded. They insist on charging $20 for a CD that costs maybe $2.50 to produce. And they can't admit that their own malicious litigation of anyone who stands up to them just might be the reason for the slumping sales.

People can and will boycott CDs due to the RIAA's business practices. I have.
 
2003-06-18 12:02:57 AM  
Hatch is not concerned with how we get music.
He is concerned that the getting of music supports industry, and thus the economy.
 
2003-06-18 12:03:09 AM  
I believe that the gov't also uses an anti-pirate statute passed by Congress in the 1700s allowing captains to board and capture pirate vessels in order to confiscate the cars used by men who solicit prostitutes.
 
2003-06-18 12:03:28 AM  
FELLOW FARKERS!!

We gotta take the power back!!
 
2003-06-18 12:03:35 AM  
Antialias

If you listen to a 192 kbps MP3 and its corresponding CD track immediately after one another, the difference is quite noticeable.

Meh, maybe my ears are good. Who knows?
 
2003-06-18 12:03:48 AM  
For some reason after watching MTV Cribs and seeing artists with gold plated bathroom fixtures, gold ceilings, waterfalls, Rolex's for every outfit, 500 pairs of shoes, 20 escalades, owning more platinum than citibank.....that kind of makes it hard to scream poverty to college kids that live off of ramen, and most of the time cant even afford a good steak.

Just my opinion though
 
2003-06-18 12:04:08 AM  
Even if asshat Hatch has his way, in the end it's going to be pointless anyway. The minute they start doing what they're doing to monitor our downloading, hackers and programmers will be working feverishly to crack the program and distribute a patch to counter it or avoid it all together. Because on one side, you have people that are underpaid to meet deadlines, but on the other side, there are people who do it simply to piss the other people off.

/goes back to sleep..
 
2003-06-18 12:04:54 AM  
pfft. This scares the shiat out of me, but frankly, the more they try to control us, the more motivation hackers will have to create newer, better, and untrackable distributed file networks. Evolution through necessity.

The level of control the RIAA wants runs against the wishes of a lot of corporate power players throughout the world as it is. They might crush some of us peons, but tech manufactures have lawyers and money.
 
2003-06-18 12:05:12 AM  
Yes, AntiAlias, it is still theft since it circumvents the contractual obligation the artist would be under with his record label. Artists don't own their intellectual property (lyrics, music, etc), their record company does.
 
2003-06-18 12:06:56 AM  
What next? Books that fire blinding liquid at your eyes if your fingerprints don't match those imprinted when the book was bought? Magazines that give off nerve gas if you aren't the subscriber?

Oh and by the way I thought of it first so if anyone trys to copy it a team of professionals will come and drive nails into your skull to teach you your lesson about intellectual property rights.

Hey I got a better idea...how about we execute politicians who don't vote on issues the way their voters want them to.
 
2003-06-18 12:07:01 AM  
Cubansaltyballs unfortunately, those sort of artists are very rare. And most of them are still in debt to the record company, but are living off that "advancement" they got at the start of the album that they don't quite comprehend that they owe back to the record company.

Most artists, even ones who sign a contract, are screwed. I've seen estimates that an artist needs an album to go gold before they actually begin to make money, because they owe the record company for promotion, studio time, etc.
 
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