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(LA Times)   Monsanto would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for those meddling scientists   (latimes.com) divider line 159
    More: Obvious, Union of Concerned Scientists, USDA, International Skating Union, Department of Agriculture, Member of Congress, continuations, FDA, George W. Bush Administration  
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26530 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Sep 2010 at 2:22 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-09-14 12:44:09 PM
i.imgur.com

Address all complaints to the MONSANTO Corporation
 
2010-09-14 12:50:15 PM
I guess your headline is pure sarcasm because the article said that scientists were complaining that their decisions were routinely
overturned as the result of corporate or other governmental interference. I had hoped that you had some good news about Monsanto being beaten back by bureaucrats. That doesn't happen too often, it would appear.

I went out to look for what caused you to single out Monsanto. I do see that a federal judge banned the planting of Monsanto genetically-engineered beets in mid August. He was reportedly troubled by the fact that the USDA had allowed planting to go ahead before testing had been done. According to what I read, genetically modified beets already had 95% of the marketplace. It's a little late but it appeared to be a small victory. (You may hate beets but they supply most of the sugar for the US.)

Alas, the USDA has already authorized the continued use of Monsanto's seeds proving that corporate interests continue to rule.
 
2010-09-14 02:26:52 PM
Um, I think we need to go back to the '80s for a proper response to this article: NO DUH.

Seriously, there are people that don't know this goes on?
 
2010-09-14 02:27:29 PM
notmtwain: I guess your headline is pure sarcasm because the article said that scientists were complaining that their decisions were routinely
overturned as the result of corporate or other governmental interference. I had hoped that you had some good news about Monsanto being beaten back by bureaucrats. That doesn't happen too often, it would appear.

I went out to look for what caused you to single out Monsanto. I do see that a federal judge banned the planting of Monsanto genetically-engineered beets in mid August. He was reportedly troubled by the fact that the USDA had allowed planting to go ahead before testing had been done. According to what I read, genetically modified beets already had 95% of the marketplace. It's a little late but it appeared to be a small victory. (You may hate beets but they supply most of the sugar for the US.)

Alas, the USDA has already authorized the continued use of Monsanto's seeds proving that corporate interests continue to rule.


I think it was a "Scooby Do" joke...
 
2010-09-14 02:27:59 PM
Monsterous
Oblivious
Needy
Stupid
Apple
Noodle
Terwilliger
Ocelot
 
2010-09-14 02:28:17 PM
I'm disappointed but not surprised. One of the things I wanted the Obama administration to do was what lots of nutjobs on the right feared; clean out some of the political appointees and put some non-political people back (best scenario) or even out the numbers between left hacks and right hacks (worst scenario).

Not that I think Bush was some evil mastermind. I think there were a lot of people chomping at the bit after 8 years of Clinton to get into various positions. Now there appears to still be more righty nuts than lefty nuts.

So, yeah. Not so happy with this information.
 
2010-09-14 02:30:24 PM
Science, bad! Sarah Palin, good!
 
2010-09-14 02:30:50 PM
"We have two very different agencies giving very identical responses, and this suggests the need for broad reform."

"Very identical"?
 
2010-09-14 02:30:57 PM
Aidan: I'm disappointed but not surprised. One of the things I wanted the Obama administration to do was what lots of nutjobs on the right feared; clean out some of the political appointees and put some non-political people back (best scenario) or even out the numbers between left hacks and right hacks (worst scenario).

Not that I think Bush was some evil mastermind. I think there were a lot of people chomping at the bit after 8 years of Clinton to get into various positions. Now there appears to still be more righty nuts than lefty nuts.

So, yeah. Not so happy with this information.


I think your problem is in drawing a distinction. A coin may have two opposite, very different-appearing sides, but it's still one coin.
 
2010-09-14 02:31:30 PM
FTFA: -Dean Wyatt, a supervisory public health veterinarian who has worked for nearly 20 years at the USDA's Food Safety and Inspection Service- WAT?

/Chinese food?
 
2010-09-14 02:31:44 PM
Monsanto is at the top of my "I'm honestly surprised nobody has started shooting people working for this company" list.
 
2010-09-14 02:32:04 PM
JohnAnnArbor: "We have two very different agencies giving very identical responses, and this suggests the need for broad reform."

"Very identical"?


Very extremely, incredibly, awfully, exceptionally, exceedingly, especially, dreadfully, extraordinarily, enormously, fantastically, vastly identical.
 
2010-09-14 02:32:16 PM
I think a lot of the hyperbolic hand-wringing over "evil corporations!!" is often more emotional than reasonable.

That being said, farkin' Monsanto is seriously evil.
 
2010-09-14 02:32:52 PM
Monsanto is pure evil.
 
2010-09-14 02:33:19 PM
untaken_name: Aidan:
Not that I think Bush was some evil mastermind. I think there were a lot of people chomping at the bit after 8 years of Clinton to get into various positions. Now there appears to still be more righty nuts than lefty nuts.

So, yeah. Not so happy with this information.

I think your problem is in drawing a distinction. A coin may have two opposite, very different-appearing sides, but it's still one coin.


A distinction between nuts of different flavors? Yes, most likely. They're both going to do stupid, potentially dangerous stuff. I was kind of hoping for an impasse between the groups being the least dangerous overall, in the absence of hiring the highest qualified, most objective people.
 
2010-09-14 02:33:37 PM
JohnAnnArbor: "We have two very different agencies giving very identical responses, and this suggests the need for broad reform."

"Very identical"?


A little too identical if you ask me.
 
2010-09-14 02:35:15 PM
Monsanto: making food purchases more worrying for over two decades.

/grandma doesn't use genetically modified crops on her farm
//her stuff always tastes better
/her chickens are meaner, though
 
2010-09-14 02:35:36 PM
I Am Much Smarter Than You: Monsanto

Whatever, as long as I can still get my Roundup I don't care.
 
2010-09-14 02:35:37 PM
This is exactly why removing the cap on corporate political contributions was a good idea. Now the marketplace is free to solve these types of problems.

Oh by the way, Kraft Foods is now the your childrens' legal guardian.
 
2010-09-14 02:36:38 PM
Aidan: untaken_name: Aidan:
Not that I think Bush was some evil mastermind. I think there were a lot of people chomping at the bit after 8 years of Clinton to get into various positions. Now there appears to still be more righty nuts than lefty nuts.

So, yeah. Not so happy with this information.

I think your problem is in drawing a distinction. A coin may have two opposite, very different-appearing sides, but it's still one coin.

A distinction between nuts of different flavors? Yes, most likely. They're both going to do stupid, potentially dangerous stuff. I was kind of hoping for an impasse between the groups being the least dangerous overall, in the absence of hiring the highest qualified, most objective people.


Well if you're going to use flavors, it's like having different flavors of turd. It doesn't matter whether it's Vanilla turd or Strawberry turd, it's still a freakin' turd. Also, they *are* hiring the most-qualified people for the position. It's just that the goals of that position are not likely to be the goals you would like.
 
2010-09-14 02:37:35 PM
trippdogg: This is exactly why removing the cap on corporate political contributions was a good idea. Now the marketplace is free to solve these types of problems.

Oh by the way, Kraft Foods is now the your childrens' legal guardian.


The Your children? Who are they? Where are Mother and Father Your? Did they have an accident?
 
2010-09-14 02:38:17 PM
Union of Concerned Scientists

The name says it all. From corporations affecting Global Cooling/Warming/Climate Change to food, a very liberal (big) bunch.
 
2010-09-14 02:38:57 PM
If there were a Justice League of villainous corporations/organizations, Monsanto would definitely be in it.

Other notable members would include representation from big pharma, RIAA/MPAA, Wall Street, and big insurance.
 
2010-09-14 02:39:07 PM
It's surprising you hippies still think that "organic" is better, there is no such thing, the genetically modified strings have been the norm for decades now. The crops of 100 years ago don't exist, they're in a sense extincted, replaced with better, healthier, tastier, higher yield modified crops. Livestock is another story though.
 
2010-09-14 02:40:12 PM
I don't like Monsanto or their practices, but I do find genetic engineering to be a useful tool in addressing real problems with growing enough food for everyone.
 
2010-09-14 02:40:38 PM
I wonder what the outcry would be like if someone in Congress put in a law that basically said that corporations and Congressmen must fully disclose any and all communications with the FDA.

Something like, "Transparency is bad! The terrists will win! Why do you hate capitalism and freedom?"
 
M-G
2010-09-14 02:40:41 PM
bobbarker02: That being said, farkin' Monsanto is seriously evil.

Most of the anti-Monsanto rhetoric isn't justified. I'm probably considered a foodie by many, but we've got to get over the GMO panic. The use of Roundup and Roundup-ready crops allows farmers to practice no-till methods, which significantly reduce CO2 emissions, not only from tractors running, but from the amount of CO2 that tilled soil emits.

And do you know how most non-GMO seed is selected for desired traits? They irradiate the seeds to force mutations, then use whichever gives the desired results. There are all kinds of unknowns in that process, but somehow manipulating a specific gene is cause for panic.
 
2010-09-14 02:40:45 PM
I Am Much Smarter Than You: It's surprising you hippies still think that "organic" is better, there is no such thing, the genetically modified strings have been the norm for decades now. The crops of 100 years ago don't exist, they're in a sense extincted, replaced with better, healthier, tastier, higher yield modified crops. Livestock is another story though.

No, they're just called "heirloom" now and they're really hard to find (comparatively). Additionally, you may want to look at differences in actual nutrients from 100 years ago to today. The plants might be bigger or higher-yield, but they're much lower in actual nutrients.
 
2010-09-14 02:41:34 PM
government-protecting big business from the people for two centuries (at least).
 
2010-09-14 02:41:48 PM
I am heavily vested in Monsanto stock. They send me the quarterly reports written on weak human souls. You'd know that if you weren't such a loser.
 
2010-09-14 02:42:28 PM
i380.photobucket.com
Jinkies
 
2010-09-14 02:42:35 PM
I think Monsanto was created for the pure purpose of seeing if they could make pacifist environmentalist hippies into violent gunmen.
 
2010-09-14 02:44:24 PM
angry_scientist: FTFA: -Dean Wyatt, a supervisory public health veterinarian who has worked for nearly 20 years at the USDA's Food Safety and Inspection Service- WAT?

/Chinese food?


Um, just where do you think meat, eggs, and other foods come from?
 
2010-09-14 02:44:32 PM
As long as scientists want to get paid, political and corporate interests will continue to intrude on their work.
 
2010-09-14 02:44:40 PM
Tachikoma: /grandma doesn't use genetically modified crops on her farm

Like hell she doesn't.

Have you ever seen wild corn? Even maize is domesticated.
 
2010-09-14 02:45:28 PM
M-G: bobbarker02: That being said, farkin' Monsanto is seriously evil.

Most of the anti-Monsanto rhetoric isn't justified. I'm probably considered a foodie by many, but we've got to get over the GMO panic. The use of Roundup and Roundup-ready crops allows farmers to practice no-till methods, which significantly reduce CO2 emissions, not only from tractors running, but from the amount of CO2 that tilled soil emits.

And do you know how most non-GMO seed is selected for desired traits? They irradiate the seeds to force mutations, then use whichever gives the desired results. There are all kinds of unknowns in that process, but somehow manipulating a specific gene is cause for panic.


It's all in how you present it.

The application of mutagenic compounds to seed and plants in order to develop and eventually breed new varieties is far from news.

I'm finding that unfortunately, certain open pollinated varieties are not producing like I wanted for my small urban garden.

The sweet corn was a complete farking failure for instance. That's the last time I used heirloom corn seed that doesn't follow strict pollination and propagation procedures.

The OP tomatoes however are excellent.
 
2010-09-14 02:45:46 PM
untaken_name: Aidan:
A distinction between nuts of different flavors? Yes, most likely. They're both going to do stupid, potentially dangerous stuff. I was kind of hoping for an impasse between the groups being the least dangerous overall, in the absence of hiring the highest qualified, most objective people.

Well if you're going to use flavors, it's like having different flavors of turd. It doesn't matter whether it's Vanilla turd or Strawberry turd, it's still a freakin' turd. Also, they *are* hiring the most-qualified people for the position. It's just that the goals of that position are not likely to be the goals you would like.


But doesn't that make them the most qualified turd? :)

If it helps, I am thinking of Monica Goodling (US attourneys dismissal) and the politicized hirings in the justice department (here (new window)). I'm also thinking of this (new window) which is just a blog, so not as useful, but implies that the FDA was... weakened to help out businesses.

In the first two cases I would definitely argue for poor hiring practices. The third case just ties in better with TFA.
 
2010-09-14 02:46:09 PM
M-G: bobbarker02: That being said, farkin' Monsanto is seriously evil.

Most of the anti-Monsanto rhetoric isn't justified. I'm probably considered a foodie by many, but we've got to get over the GMO panic. The use of Roundup and Roundup-ready crops allows farmers to practice no-till methods, which significantly reduce CO2 emissions, not only from tractors running, but from the amount of CO2 that tilled soil emits.

And do you know how most non-GMO seed is selected for desired traits? They irradiate the seeds to force mutations, then use whichever gives the desired results. There are all kinds of unknowns in that process, but somehow manipulating a specific gene is cause for panic.


I don't have a problem with GMO.

I was referring more to the practice of turning farmers into indentured servants by selling them Monsanto-owned seeds and all the nefarious practices that follow.

And the collusion between federal regulators and corporations like Monsanto is so severe that you aren't sure where executives end and bureaucrats begin.
 
2010-09-14 02:46:22 PM
untaken_name: I Am Much Smarter Than You: It's surprising you hippies still think that "organic" is better, there is no such thing, the genetically modified strings have been the norm for decades now. The crops of 100 years ago don't exist, they're in a sense extincted, replaced with better, healthier, tastier, higher yield modified crops. Livestock is another story though.

No, they're just called "heirloom" now and they're really hard to find (comparatively). Additionally, you may want to look at differences in actual nutrients from 100 years ago to today. The plants might be bigger or higher-yield, but they're much lower in actual nutrients.


That's a function of when they are picked, as opposed to how they are grown.

It's especially obvious with tomatoes, which are picked while immature so they can transport without bruising. Heirloom tomatoes picked immaturely do the same thing.
 
2010-09-14 02:48:34 PM
moops: Science, bad! Sarah Palin, good!

This is wrong. I know you are trying to make a point, but science is a study, not a belief system. It is not political, it is not religious, it is not moral outside of social sciences, which are a study, not a belief system. Science is science and when you highjack science and parade it around as you own personal belief system and put it in opposiition of other people's ideas belifs that science does not touch on, then you are using something totally neutral to further your own beliefs and that is wrong.
 
2010-09-14 02:48:47 PM
CMetzger42: angry_scientist: FTFA: -Dean Wyatt, a supervisory public health veterinarian who has worked for nearly 20 years at the USDA's Food Safety and Inspection Service- WAT?

/Chinese food?

Um, just where do you think meat, eggs, and other foods come from?


Exactly, veteranarians!

Or did you mean from the chinese food?
 
2010-09-14 02:51:23 PM
bobbarker02: M-G: bobbarker02: That being said, farkin' Monsanto is seriously evil.

Most of the anti-Monsanto rhetoric isn't justified. I'm probably considered a foodie by many, but we've got to get over the GMO panic. The use of Roundup and Roundup-ready crops allows farmers to practice no-till methods, which significantly reduce CO2 emissions, not only from tractors running, but from the amount of CO2 that tilled soil emits.

And do you know how most non-GMO seed is selected for desired traits? They irradiate the seeds to force mutations, then use whichever gives the desired results. There are all kinds of unknowns in that process, but somehow manipulating a specific gene is cause for panic.

I don't have a problem with GMO.

I was referring more to the practice of turning farmers into indentured servants by selling them Monsanto-owned seeds and all the nefarious practices that follow.

And the collusion between federal regulators and corporations like Monsanto is so severe that you aren't sure where executives end and bureaucrats begin.


This is where I fall. While I could live without GMO foods, I have no problem eating them. My real issue is how the genes are patented and those patents used against farmers, especially those who never even used or purchased the GMO seeds.
 
2010-09-14 02:52:26 PM
trippdogg 2010-09-14 02:35:37 PM
This is exactly why removing the cap on corporate political contributions was a good idea. Now the marketplace is free to solve these types of problems.

Oh by the way, Kraft Foods is now the your childrens' legal guardian.


Well, at least Kraft Foods can afford to put them through college.
 
2010-09-14 02:53:12 PM
bobbarker02: And the collusion between federal regulators and corporations like Monsanto is so severe that you aren't sure where executives end and bureaucrats begin.


Touches on what I think is the biggest issue in US government: the revolving door between the board room and public service. That, and the fact that corporations have human rights.
 
2010-09-14 02:53:51 PM
Subby totally RTFA, I can tell.

/seen a lot of shops in my time
 
2010-09-14 02:53:55 PM
Zoinks!
 
2010-09-14 02:54:16 PM
monsatan has made their money by selling the "no till" system, but, now that the weeds have developed tolerance to round up, farmers are once again finding themselves returning to labor intensive tilling. and, if you research it, you will find that gmo crops have not increased crop yield. in some cases they've even decreased it.

citation provided...do your homework.

Link (new window)
 
2010-09-14 02:54:44 PM
CMetzger42: angry_scientist: FTFA: -Dean Wyatt, a supervisory public health veterinarian who has worked for nearly 20 years at the USDA's Food Safety and Inspection Service- WAT?

/Chinese food?

Um, just where do you think meat, eggs, and other foods come from?


Not pets!!! I know the farmers around here mainly use vets for higher value animals like horses and mother cows. I would've thought animals to be inspected long before becoming food.

But since they only raise and sell them around here, I just hear some good stories from the farmers and that is the limited extent of my livestock knowledge and comma usage,
 
2010-09-14 02:55:25 PM
This text is now purple: That's a function of when they are picked, as opposed to how they are grown.

No, it's a function of bad farming practices. Leaching the land of nutrients without properly replacing them, not properly rotating crops, failing to rest fields, etc.
 
2010-09-14 02:55:45 PM
sboyle1020: I Am Much Smarter Than You: Monsanto

Whatever, as long as I can still get my Roundup I don't care.


In every bite!
 
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