Usually test skews like this are used to decide scholarships (If someone's exceptionally gifted, you let them in even if they can't pay.) Or, in the alternative, poor families get extra tutoring after school for students that may be borderline. Both of these make sense individually.

I see no valid reason to have a test for a gifted program that sets different standards for poor and nonpoor students. She can't pay the difference and get in? Why not?

I'm guessing they have a quota for various minority students, and the "poor" barrier is the only legal way they have of making the quota. That's the only problem I can see this situation actually solving.

Children with equal intellectual abilities often achieve different scores on exams when one of the two is allowed to just be a kid and the other is taking care of the cooking, doing laundry and raising younger siblings as well as doing homework because his/her parents are both working two jobs.

The girl feels that it's not fair that a poor family's kid would get in with that score. She may be right. I imagine that the poor family would gladly trade the spot in the gifted class for the difference in dad's salary.


Life isn't fair. This girl gets to learn that lesson while she's still young.

from the comments on TFA:

Keep fighting Hannah!!! You will encounter liberal double-standards your whole life. We need you and more like you to take charge and fight the fight against arrogant liberals who believe their moral superiority justifies granting of special privileges to their pet special interest groups. Continue to work hard knowing that someday, when only merit counts, you will be rewarded while those who have grown only to expect hand-outs and special breaks will be left open-mouthed babbling about how unfair it is to finally be treated equally.

hilarious!

Oh Hell: Even Forrest Gump's mother knew how to handle this situation.

FloydA: Children with equal intellectual abilities often achieve different scores on exams when one of the two is allowed to just be a kid and the other is taking care of the cooking, doing laundry and raising younger siblings as well as doing homework because his/her parents are both working two jobs.

The girl feels that it's not fair that a poor family's kid would get in with that score. She may be right. I imagine that the poor family would gladly trade the spot in the gifted class for the difference in dad's salary.


Life isn't fair. This girl gets to learn that lesson while she's still young.

And affirmative action will screw over the truly qualified. That is a good lesson she will learn as well.

According to the school district, there are different standards for different students. If a student gets a free or reduced lunch or speaks limited English, the grading scale is different.


Sigh... anger... hatred..
Having gone through the same BS.. fark em. Don't care.

feckingmorons:

And affirmative action will screw over the truly qualified. That is a good lesson she will learn as well.

Two sprinters are running a 100 meter dash. One of them gets a 40 meter head start. Both cross the finish line at the same time.

Which one is more qualified to represent the US in the next Olympics?

FloydA: Which one is more qualified to represent the US in the next Olympics?

The rich one.

ultraholland: FloydA: Which one is more qualified to represent the US in the next Olympics?

The rich one.

You know, I would almost be OK with that if the "oh noes Affirmative Action is out to get us" people would at least admit that this is what they really think.

It would still be disgusting and pathetic, but at least it would be honest.

I suppose none of you are considering that poorer students given a chance at better education have a history of a higher return on investment; that those children are more likely to be better people by given a better chance. That's the real rational for affirmative action for disadvantaged students. Wealth is just as much a disadvantage as color.

bulldg4life: The gifted program is screwed up all over the country.

Of course, perhaps I am just pissed since I graduated 5th in my class while three of the four people in front of me took all remedial level classes and I was busting my ass in gifted/AP classes.

Bastards.

You'll get over it when you finally realize that grades and class rankings don't mean anything, and you can be satisfied with your level of knowledge. :p

;)

GAT_00: I suppose none of you are considering that poorer students given a chance at better education have a history of a higher return on investment; that those children are more likely to be better people by given a better chance. That's the real rational for affirmative action for disadvantaged students. Wealth is just as much a disadvantage as color.

While I see the point, that is no reason to discourage the financially better-off students. Does this girl getting into the gifted program exclude another student from the program? i.e. are there only so many spots, and it would be better to give her spot to another? If not, then the separate standards are BS.

Aside, it said she needed a score, which I assume to be for an IQ test, of 130 to get into the gifted program. At my school, that was the minimum baseline for EVERYONE regardless of financial class (I wouldn't know if the upper class kids required a higher score or not, as I was on the lower to middle class borderline) to get into the "Gifted Program". I was under the impression that a 130 IQ was the standard for "gifted" with 140 the standard for "genius". Has this changed? Or do the standards for gifted and genius now also rely on financial class?

mamoru: Does this girl getting into the gifted program exclude another student from the program?

In the real world? Yes.

It would be nice if ALL students got the extra resources and good education that far too many places reserve for the "gifted" class, though. Sadly, people just aren't willing to pay for that.

itazurakko: In the real world? Yes.

No, I mean in this particular situation. Is there a poor student competing with her for the position in the program with the same score who gets precedence because of his/her financial situation?

If so, then I don't really have a problem with it, or I have much less of a problem with it..

If not, then it's BS. If she's not taking anyone's spot, and she meets the IQ requirements, she should be in the program.

mamoru: No, I mean in this particular situation.

As do I. Vast odds (granted, I don't know for certain) are that the number of kids accepted into the gifted program is limited, as that's how it is in most places I've ever heard of.

There's always the "alternate" kids and whatever for that reason - they only hire a certain number of teachers, and they can only teach a certain number of kids.

But again, I think the better education reserved for these programs would serve ALL tracks well.

Anyway, she didn't get the precious 130. She (or more likely, her mom) is upset that some other kid got in with the same LESS THAN 130 score than Hannah got.

One of the comments to TFA mentions this too, if they unified the levels and said "no exceptions for poor kids" they'd likely pick 130 for the cutoff (as it's a common cutoff) and she'd STILL be ineligible.

itazurakko: One of the comments to TFA mentions this too, if they unified the levels and said "no exceptions for poor kids" they'd likely pick 130 for the cutoff (as it's a common cutoff) and she'd STILL be ineligible.

Fair enough, and what I was thinking. She wouldn't have got in at my school.

I still disagree with the double standard, though. Unless they do have a large gifted program and are struggling with having enough teachers to handle it, I don't think there should be different standards for getting into it. Back when I was in school, I think there were maybe 5-10 students from each grade level in the program, solely on the basis of the IQ test qualification, and we all pretty much did our own thing, so there was no burden on the teacher at all (it was basically an independent study program with academic competitions and such thrown in on top... mainly it was the place where we could go and play Artillery or Oregon Trail on the Apple IIgs with no consequence ;) ).

mamoru: solely on the basis of the IQ test qualification

Durrr... Not solely on this. This was the sole requirement to be considered for the program. However, then there were interviews with the teacher that ran it, as well as looking at the academic records and such, to make sure the student had a good attitude for the program. It was several factors, but without the initial minimum 130 IQ, you couldn't even be considered.

Reminds me of how when my older sister was tested for the gifted program in elementary school she got a 129 and they wouldn't make an exception for her, so my mom refused as a principle to allow me and my brother to be tested. Sis ended up graduating cum laude with degrees in chemistry and biology and I'm getting my PhD in astrophysics, so clearly the school was intelligent in dithering over a mere IQ point (bro was a finance major and is thus the smartest of us all, as he'll actually make money someday).

To be honest, my best advice to a girl in such a situation is to say I actually think it was better for me to not be labeled as "smart" in the long run. You can't do a thing about being smart or not but you CAN do a thing or two about work ethic, and not realizing I was "smart" until my teenage years meant I could work harder at the stuff I could control.

feckingmorons: And affirmative action will screw over the truly qualified. That is a good lesson she will learn as well.

won't somebody think of us poor white folks???

drjekel_mrhyde: Why would they base it on income?
/Slow person

She's a middle class white girl.

This is truly bullshiat.

This was more than six months ago in case no one noticed.

There is nothing in the article to suggest that the score of 130 is an IQ score, and frankly I doubt it as only 2% of the country scores at or above 130 on the Stanford Binet 5 (that is the lower limit for Mensa eligibility), I frankly doubt any gifted program only accepts two percent of the students.

Gifted programs are nonsense. Put the child in the grade that reflects the level at which they are performing (within reason you don't want a 10 year old in junior college) rather than that which is a cohort of chronologically similar students.

We didn't have gifted programs when I went to school, we had nuns.

Put the kid in a parochial school to remove her from the public school system where they do more warehousing than teaching.

Equal opportunity means just that, everyone regardless of their membership in any protected class has the same opportunity as everyone else. Equal outcomes are what our public schools are geared toward, not equal opportunity; however they fail at that as well.

Gifted programs in public schools serve only to stoke the egos of the parents as they yammer at tailgate parties that their snowflake is in the gifted program in third grade at NEA elementary school. If the child was that gifted she would be bored out of her mind and dread going to school with the stupid kids. Remember too it is public school teachers that teach these gifted students. While there are many fine public school teachers who can and do do a wonderful job with high achieving students, I don't find that the quality of public school teachers follows a normal distribution, it skews quite heavily to the left.

stirfrybry: class warfare FTW!!

some of us are more equal than others, right?

let me guess....You don't like unions and think they get paid too much. right?

Jim_Callahan: Kids that are "allowed to just be kids" are playing Halo all day and fail these kinds of tests miserably. The ones that do well are smart and make time to read, practice, or study. Rich or poor, it's as simple as that.

Kids that are allowed to just be kids are slovenly, ignorant, with policies calloused from video game absorption, overweight, unhealthy troglodytes because their parents are imbeciles.

Gifted in Florida means you are not longer pissing yourself or your classmates by third grade.

One can only hope that these parents took their average child out of public school and put her in an accredited and well performing private school before she succumbed to the enervating mindlessness at which Florida public school students excel.

Failing that she can always get knocked up in the eighth grade, that will most probably drop her into one of the silos that will allow her into the gifted classes.

/policies above is the plural of pollex
//I own a thesaurus

Penman: feckingmorons: And affirmative action will screw over the truly qualified. That is a good lesson she will learn as well.

This isn't about race, though.

Affirmative action need not be about race, but solely about what those who oversee the various programs that espouse affirmative action as an underrepresented group.

You don't see them letting extra Asians into MIT because they make up the smallest racial group in the US.

misfitdreams: She may be a straight A student there but at my sons school she would be hovering at a B+ with her 90. The two A- scores would bring her GPA down and one messed up test and she'd be a B student. I'll get upset about it when she carries higher than a 94 in all her classes all year long and is actually a solid straight A student.

Well since she is not at your child's school that is comparing apples to oranges, is it not?

Cairene: Math question: A bus pass costs $16. A single fare costs $1.55. Which is the better buy to go to work?

The correct answer to this is there is not enough information to reach a conclusion.

How long is the pass valid for? A day, a week, a month. You illustrate other dependencies. Questions are not written with ambiguities as you describe.


Cairene: Question: At what temperature should you wear a coat?

A subjective question such as that would never be on a standardized test. Should is simply not a word that is used in that setting, it requires opinion and standardized tests are not measures of opinion.

My gradmother has the opinion that one should wear a coat at 60F, My uncle Irving in Fairbanks feels that one should wear the same coat at 45F.

While I understand the point that you are trying to make, your questions are absurd, and the bias in standardized testing has been reduced so much as to be de minimis.