Christians don't threaten the Sistine Chapel as much as fundamentalist atheists do who would see it in ruins if they had their way. Their most common argument is that the religious paintings in the Sistine Chapel are only religious because that's what was asked of the painters. Richard Dawkins said something like, "We'll never know what he would have painted if he was driven by science." He's right, we will never know, and it's a good thing too. Without religion, we wouldn't have a Sistine Chapel. And there are a lot of things we wouldn't have - morality, virtue, faith, but also art, be it paintings, music or literature. And we need those things, because it reminds us whose world we're living in. It would be a very dark place without God.

ignite ice: Christians don't threaten the Sistine Chapel as much as fundamentalist atheists do who would see it in ruins if they had their way. Their most common argument is that the religious paintings in the Sistine Chapel are only religious because that's what was asked of the painters. Richard Dawkins said something like, "We'll never know what he would have painted if he was driven by science." He's right, we will never know, and it's a good thing too. Without religion, we wouldn't have a Sistine Chapel. And there are a lot of things we wouldn't have - morality, virtue, faith, but also art, be it paintings, music or literature. And we need those things, because it reminds us whose world we're living in. It would be a very dark place without God.

I thought Eugene Scott was dead.

SpaceyCat: Why not cover the walls and stuff in plexiglass? Can see everything still, but it keeps a lot of the other crap off of it....

It's the Pope's Chapel. He owns it. That's where he worships. It's not a tourist attraction or an historical landmark except in the present tense. If I were the Pope, I wouldn't like my walls and stuff covered in plexiglas.

Sun God: SpaceyCat: Why not cover the walls and stuff in plexiglass? Can see everything still, but it keeps a lot of the other crap off of it....

It's the Pope's Chapel. He owns it. That's where he worships. It's not a tourist attraction or an historical landmark except in the present tense. If I were the Pope, I wouldn't like my walls and stuff covered in plexiglas.


Well, I certainly would! I would love it. I would be the Plexiglass Pope.

MetaCarpal: Sun God: SpaceyCat: Why not cover the walls and stuff in plexiglass? Can see everything still, but it keeps a lot of the other crap off of it....

It's the Pope's Chapel. He owns it. That's where he worships. It's not a tourist attraction or an historical landmark except in the present tense. If I were the Pope, I wouldn't like my walls and stuff covered in plexiglas.


Well, I certainly would! I would love it. I would be the Plexiglass Pope.

We already have one. Sorey.


(or is that tempered glass?)

NO PICTURES!! NO PICTURES!! Is what I heard screamed at tourists repeatedly when I saw the Sistine chapel. I'm not entirely sure, but I did get the subtle feeling like they didn't want pictures taken.

Sun God: SpaceyCat: Why not cover the walls and stuff in plexiglass? Can see everything still, but it keeps a lot of the other crap off of it....

It's the Pope's Chapel. He owns it. That's where he worships. It's not a tourist attraction or an historical landmark except in the present tense. If I were the Pope, I wouldn't like my walls and stuff covered in plexiglas.

Bullshiat. It's marketed as a tourist attraction.

I stood outside of the Sistine Chapel for midnight mass the day in which that crazy lady knocked over the pope. The line to get into the Sistine Chapel pretty much went from both archs.

For those of us who did not have tickets to get in, there were pews set up for the "faithful" for those who could not go inside. Probably only 4 people sat in those pews. The rest of us stood outside and watched one of the two huge telescreens. We did not know that the pope was knocked over. I was hoping to get a picture of the pope standing at the winter to greet us prior to the mass. Unfortunately I did not see the pope through the window. So, I simply stated to myself since I did not see the pope we would have three more months of winter.

I would have had pictures to show from my vacation if my camera equipment was not stolen on a train from Amsterdam to London.

Once while bar hopping in New York I was drunk as hell and looking for a bathroom. There was a Catholic church so I went in staggering, making noise and looking for a bathroom. I found a room and I'm in there relieving myself and this little window suddenly opened and this voice said, "can I help you my son?" It surprised the hell out of me and finally I said, "yeah, do you have any toilet paper?"

Yahoo comments is like 4chan lite

stupid wops ...

ignite ice: It would be a very dark place without God.

Protip: One of Satan's names is the Bringer of Light. We'll be able to see just fine when you take your god and shove him up your ass.

ignite ice: Christians don't threaten the Sistine Chapel as much as fundamentalist atheists do who would see it in ruins if they had their way. Their most common argument is that the religious paintings in the Sistine Chapel are only religious because that's what was asked of the painters. Richard Dawkins said something like, "We'll never know what he would have painted if he was driven by science." He's right, we will never know, and it's a good thing too. Without religion, we wouldn't have a Sistine Chapel. And there are a lot of things we wouldn't have - morality, virtue, faith, but also art, be it paintings, music or literature. And we need those things, because it reminds us whose world we're living in. It would be a very dark place without God.

I like your subtler trolls better.

Baryogenesis: I like your subtler trolls better.

I admire the way he sticks to it. I mean sure his latest effort may wreak of fetid desperation because everyone has recognized his trolliness, but he doesn't give up. He keeps the faith and knows eventually he'll find someone naive enough to bite, someone perhaps lacking education and is prone to being blindly lead, someone willing to buy into a pompous display as opposed to rationally thinking why. I don't know that he'll find that person, but ignite ice I want you, nay I need you to keep believing you'll find that person.

GoldenMetalRaven: I stood outside of the Sistine Chapel for midnight mass the day in which that crazy lady knocked over the pope. The line to get into the Sistine Chapel pretty much went from both archs.

That would have been St. Peter's Basilica, not the Sistine Chapel. The Sistine Chapel is relatively tiny and inaccessible from the outside (it's built as a fortress.)

xynix: Yeah this is why the paintings are starting to suffer. Because people don't have enough holy spirits being invoked or some such nonsense

I think he meant "pure spirits" as in "noncorporeal beings". In other words, they breathe and sweat.

I'm not a religious person. However I think anyone going into the Sistine Chapel should respect the rules/what it represents and NOT talk and NOT take pictures like they ask. The lack of that simple respect when I was there was utterly amazing to me.

Everyone in the damn building is in there to have a look at some famous artwork, you just don't stumble into it by accident. So on some level it should be EASY for everyone to respect it.

But it's not. This is why I hate people.

MayoSlather: He keeps the faith and knows eventually he'll find someone naive enough to bite, someone perhaps lacking education and is prone to being blindly lead, someone willing to buy into a pompous display as opposed to rationally thinking why.

Does it count as getting trolled when you troll a troll? I never understood how you kiddies tabulate scores these days.

kerpal32: MayoSlather: He keeps the faith and knows eventually he'll find someone naive enough to bite, someone perhaps lacking education and is prone to being blindly lead, someone willing to buy into a pompous display as opposed to rationally thinking why.

for a moment there I thought you were describing Dawkins or Myers. I KNOW you just described Hitchens and Harris to a T.

You also just described 97% of their evangelical atheist followers.



It's what they do with their "faith" that's as irritating and annoying as any other religious fundamentalism.

*grabs beer*
*watches thread*

/it's Friday, time for beer, not popcorn

I was shocked and appalled by how rude people were in the sistine chapel. They specifically request that you remain a respectful quiet and not use flash photography (as the combined flashes can be harmful to the ancient colors.) NOBODY was following any of the simple requests. people were laughing and talking, taking all sorts of pictures and then fighting with the guards- it was a mad house. as a non-christian, even i was uncomfortable by the lack of respect, and i don't believe i can burn eternally for doing it.

kerpal32: You also just described 97% of their evangelical atheist followers.

Uh huh.

Syphilis_Smile: Does it count as getting trolled when you troll a troll? I never understood how you kiddies tabulate scores these days.

See how ignite wasn't subtle enough to evoke the ire of those that disagree? I just wanted to show how it's done.

Well they could implement a system the seals the artwork behind large bullet proof glass.

a huge portion of our social problems today can be traced directly to a lack of respect for other people's shiat.

tlchwi02: I was shocked and appalled by how rude people were in the sistine chapel. They specifically request that you remain a respectful quiet and not use flash photography (as the combined flashes can be harmful to the ancient colors.) NOBODY was following any of the simple requests. people were laughing and talking, taking all sorts of pictures and then fighting with the guards- it was a mad house. as a non-christian, even i was uncomfortable by the lack of respect, and i don't believe i can burn eternally for doing it.

Ditto. The asian tourists in particular didn't give a shiat. I wasn't sure if they just didn't understand the directions or they didn't care.

Raise the price of the entrance fee substantially. You'll get less people going through and make the same amount of cash.

Problem solved thanks to capitalism and the free market, biatches.

MayoSlather: Ditto. The asian tourists in particular didn't give a shiat. I wasn't sure if they just didn't understand the directions or they didn't care.

they don't understand, but they don't care when they do. I went out to Ankgor Wat a few years ago, and that area primarily gets only asian tourists- nearly 1 million japanease and koreans a year. Our cambodian guide told us that no matter how many signs and ropes they put up, they could not get them to stop touching these ancient carved reliefs. Literally,centuries of the jungle, the french, the khmer rouge, civil war, land mines, neglect and pollution hadn't done much damage but the koreans and japanease were going to force them to put plexiglass up to protect them in less than a decade

Ball of Confusion: a huge portion of our social problems today can be traced directly to a lack of respect for other people's shiat.

I think a larger portion comes from people who indicate, in advance, how much respect you should have for a given person, place, or thing, and then feel at odds with the fact that you do not think exactly like them.

In fact, this is one of the problems with the self-professed religious folk in modern society.

When an atheist asks you to respect their (lack of) beliefs, at least they're really only asking you to tolerate - not venerate - them.

quietwalker: I think a larger portion comes from people who indicate, in advance, how much respect you should have for a given person, place, or thing, and then feel at odds with the fact that you do not think exactly like them.

In fact, this is one of the problems with the self-professed religious folk in modern society.

When an atheist asks you to respect their (lack of) beliefs, at least they're really only asking you to tolerate - not venerate - them.

Beliefs != property.

Respecting other people's property is fundamental to a smoothly functioning society. The OP that you responded to appears to be referring directly to property but you appear to be trying to switch the argument to one regarding forced approval of belief systems, which isn't accurate.

GoldenMetalRaven: I stood outside of the Sistine Chapel for midnight mass the day in which that crazy lady knocked over the pope. The line to get into the Sistine Chapel pretty much went from both archs.

For those of us who did not have tickets to get in, there were pews set up for the "faithful" for those who could not go inside. Probably only 4 people sat in those pews. The rest of us stood outside and watched one of the two huge telescreens. We did not know that the pope was knocked over. I was hoping to get a picture of the pope standing at the winter to greet us prior to the mass. Unfortunately I did not see the pope through the window. So, I simply stated to myself since I did not see the pope we would have three more months of winter.

I would have had pictures to show from my vacation if my camera equipment was not stolen on a train from Amsterdam to London.

The Sistine Chapel is not the same thing as St. Peter's Basilica.

Cool story, bro:

I visited in 1996 and was one of the last people to get in that day before they closed down to prep for a service by the pope. We were up in the balcony way up in the roof of the main area- the area below us had been cleared out of tourists in prep for the service.

They opened the doors for service attendees, and all of a sudden it was a wild explosion of nuns, all wearing those flying-nun style wing habits. It looked like one of those scenes when the doors open during Walmart pre-Xmas sales. Except since I was so far up, all I saw were the top of their heads, like an old-style RTS game.

Just this massive rush of flying nun habits sprinting and elbowing past each other to get front row seats for the pope.

As an atheist, I'd hate to see the chapel damaged. I saw it when I was a child and it is a work of art, even if it is about imaginary things.

Kinkyyy!

Slackfumasta: As an atheist, I'd hate to see the chapel damaged. I saw it when I was a child and it is a work of art, even if it is about imaginary things.

^ This. Even those that have lost their faith, or never had faith, etc, can still appreciate art. Ive never been, but I would still like to see it.

Did anyone else get a very icky vibe when touring the Vatican in general? I loved seeing the art in the Sistene Chapel, but St. Peter's Basilica made me a little ill, with the "sanctioned Vatican gift store" topping off my distaste. All the countless hours and piles of money supposedly spent to glorify God, but it seemed clear that the various Popes over time who went nuts building gold this and mosaic that to stuff into the Basilica were really glorifying themselves, and often for political reasons. Just seemed wrong to me. I was raised Catholic, but I'd consider myself agnostic now. My Mom was with me however (still a Catholic) and she had the same feeling. Talk about not walking the walk...

lady_nocturne: SpaceyCat: Why not cover the walls and stuff in plexiglass?

I'm not sure, but I'm thinking it has something to do with the fact that the walls are stone, and stone covered with plaster/paint probably needs to be able to breathe to some extent to prevent the paint from degrading faster. That'd be my guess, anyway.

Why not cover the tourists with plexiglass? Some sort of plastic bubble/tunnel from entry door to exit door. Make it so it can be dismantled as needed for official stuff.

Ginsbergs Ink: Slackfumasta: As an atheist, I'd hate to see the chapel damaged. I saw it when I was a child and it is a work of art, even if it is about imaginary things.

^ This. Even those that have lost their faith, or never had faith, etc, can still appreciate art. Ive never been, but I would still like to see it.

Seconded.


/Really likes the weird ones with demons...this is from our cathedral (yeah, I need a better camera..)



We also have the holy grail. Really. The crusades were a complete waste of time, we had it all along (though it was very well hidden during the times of the crusades).

MayoSlather: kerpal32: You also just described 97% of their evangelical atheist followers.

Uh huh.

Syphilis_Smile: Does it count as getting trolled when you troll a troll? I never understood how you kiddies tabulate scores these days.

See how ignite wasn't subtle enough to evoke the ire of those that disagree? I just wanted to show how it's done.

The only way i actually know he is a troll is because he's posting that tripe here. The sad thing with Christians is that many of them will actually wax philosophical in copypasta responses to Dawkins quotes, so he is being more subtle than you give him credit for. Best to just nuke the farker from orbit.

SueDisco: Did anyone else get a very icky vibe when touring the Vatican in general? I loved seeing the art in the Sistene Chapel, but St. Peter's Basilica made me a little ill, with the "sanctioned Vatican gift store" topping off my distaste. All the countless hours and piles of money supposedly spent to glorify God, but it seemed clear that the various Popes over time who went nuts building gold this and mosaic that to stuff into the Basilica were really glorifying themselves, and often for political reasons. Just seemed wrong to me. I was raised Catholic, but I'd consider myself agnostic now. My Mom was with me however (still a Catholic) and she had the same feeling. Talk about not walking the walk...

Yeah that was the general reaction of me and my ex after going through. It's a giant hypocrisy based on greed, ego and vanities of small minded men before. Sarah Silverman sums up my feelings here (new window)

SueDisco: Did anyone else get a very icky vibe when touring the Vatican in general? I loved seeing the art in the Sistene Chapel, but St. Peter's Basilica made me a little ill, with the "sanctioned Vatican gift store" topping off my distaste. All the countless hours and piles of money supposedly spent to glorify God, but it seemed clear that the various Popes over time who went nuts building gold this and mosaic that to stuff into the Basilica were really glorifying themselves, and often for political reasons. Just seemed wrong to me. I was raised Catholic, but I'd consider myself agnostic now. My Mom was with me however (still a Catholic) and she had the same feeling. Talk about not walking the walk...

It's like I told a Catholic co-worker when we were visiting Rome and took some time off to tour the Vatican: If Saint Peter were to climb out of his tomb and wander upstairs into the building bearing his name, he'd think he was in a pagan temple.

I don't think my co-worker appreciated my observation.

Kind of crappy, almost got the whole ceiling and far wall. Too bad those were the best and most visibly Sistine of the ones I got. The others were so fuzzy you couldn't tell what they were from ;_; Still happy I got a couple at least.

/"No photo, no photo"
//They want to sell the postcards, of which I bought a couple.
///Thought about going back and getting more but there were less people there the second time through.
//Missed the blasted fig. grr
/That's my $.01 lame story sis