Where do I send my resume?

Dude, you are so screwed!

Ah, Gato Negro, you make for such a good puppet.

Revving a bitless drill?

That is an AWESOME technique that I whole heartedly endorse.

First, if I were a suspect, it would scare the shiat out of me and I would pretty much tell you my story from DNA until yesterday afternoon.

Second, it doesn't actully hurt anyone.

Since when is reving a drill without a drillbit in it torture?

/I guess whoever wrote that rule didnt enjoy highschool shop.

Is it safe?

Coconice: Revving a bitless drill?

That is an AWESOME technique that I whole heartedly endorse.

First, if I were a suspect, it would scare the shiat out of me and I would pretty much tell you my story from DNA until yesterday afternoon.

Second, it doesn't actully hurt anyone.

But it's MEAN! and GFSM forgive the thought we be MEAN to those people trying to kill Americans.


/Jack Bauer says, "If he had a bit in it, he might have gotten enough info to avoid 9/11"

For a straight to DVD movie, I thought it was pretty thought provoking. Also, don't normally like Samuel L. but he was pretty kick ass in it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unthinkable

Maybe it was a dildo drill?

Mitch Rapp.

/that is all.

See here's the thing, torture doesn't really work because as the pain increases the person will simply say anything to make it stop, and even if they were lying they would have probably experienced enough pain to the point where death would appear to be a summer vacation in Cancun with topless women.

The real way to get information out of people is either through blackmail, or basically demonstrate how your hospitality is better than their superiors'.

And if you're dealing with a crazy fanatic just understand that all the truth serums/water boarding/etc won't mean a damn thing because they would rather die than help you.

Revving a drill with no bit near a prisoners head? Oh, America - we're such a country of pantywaists now...

LegacyDL: See here's the thing, torture doesn't really work because as the pain increases the person will simply say anything to make it stop, and even if they were lying they would have probably experienced enough pain to the point where death would appear to be a summer vacation in Cancun with topless women.

The real way to get information out of people is either through blackmail, or basically demonstrate how your hospitality is better than their superiors'.

And if you're dealing with a crazy fanatic just understand that all the truth serums/water boarding/etc won't mean a damn thing because they would rather die than help you.

I can totally buy this.

I guess the empty drill technique is best reserved for people like me that really don't know anything anyway.

I just don't think frightening people should be considered torture, though.

They are "persons" that can now "legally" torture you. Just like cops, but with more resources and more reach.

When they first started doing anti-terrorist training in my office they always had a cool picture in the Powerpoint presentation showing a "terrorist" sticking a power drill with a woodboring bit against someones' kneecap:

"Remember, they won't always kill you, but instead cripple you as a living reminder of their cause..."

Meh. Closest I've come so far is a carbomb set off next to my house when I was 12 yo. Good times...

/has NO problem with torturing and killing bad guys

If you've seen the documentary that came as an extra on the Rendition dvd, the architect of the program lays out pretty plainly why torture doesn't work.

If you torture someone long enough, they'll tell you what they think you want to hear, not what the truth actually is.

Because of that, you can't really rely on information that came from torture unless you acquired it yourself.

Add to that the fact that a lot of the terrorists that we fight are religious zealots - this sort of treatment feeds right into their martyr image. Torture is in no way any kind of deterrent to them.

Add to THAT the fact that treating prisoners in this manner guarantees that more people will join his cause.

Now weigh the suspect information you get against the overall cost of attaining it. It's just not practical.

Terrorists should get due process. If you have to bend the rules to get evidence, bend it in an area that produces real proof. But once you know who the players are, give them their day in court.

Refuse to drop to their level, and take away a lot of the will to fight.

/amateurs... who needs power tools?

FlashHarry: mark12A: /has NO problem with torturing and killing bad guys

how do you know with 100% certitude that they're "bad guys?"

You torture them till they confess to being bad guys OFC

MilitaryTigger: But it's MEAN! and GFSM forgive the thought we be MEAN to those people trying to kill Americans.

8th Amendment: "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

It doesn't say "unless they're a terrorist" or "applies only to US Citizens within the borders of the United States". It says that the Government of the United States shall not ever do these things -- period, end of story, no exceptions, no excuses.

If you swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States, you are breaking that oath if you ignore it's prohibitions or tolerate those who do.

We're supposed to be the good guys, and the good guys don't do that shiat.

Torture is used because it works. Wouldn't be used if it didn't. I wish you simpletons would just recognize reality.

Refuse to drop to their level, and take away a lot of the will to fight.

On what do you base this inane statement? Wishful thinking?

Sooner or later the terrorist problem will become annoying enough that the gloves will come off. And Farkers can just curl up sobbing in the corner hugging a stuffed animal while the adults deal with eliminating the problem.

acaciaavenue: Revving a drill with no bit near a prisoners head? Oh, America - we're such a country of pantywaists now...

What if you were blindfolded and had no idea what that shrill mechanical noice was coming from, the only thing you know is that its getting louder and closer to your left temple. Do you want to find out what is making that noise?

FlashHarry: mark12A: /has NO problem with torturing and killing bad guys

how do you know with 100% certitude that they're "bad guys?"

who cares? If they're not bad guys themselves they know some bad guys and can still tell us what they're up to. Personally I find the drill technique much more effective if you apply it to the kneecaps. use a 10 penny nail instead of a bit for maximum results.

Human rights critics say Albert's return as a contractor raises questions about how the intelligence community deals with those who used unauthorized interrogation methods.

3-day suspensions with pay?

He scared the shiat out of them with no intention of inflicting harm. In my book he is at least a step above the water boarders. But still a step below that foul smelling bum on the street corner.

tennessee.hillbilly: Mitch Rapp.

/that is all.

Can't forget John Kelly :P

Orgasmatron138:
Add to that the fact that a lot of the terrorists that we fight are religious zealots - this sort of treatment feeds right into their martyr image. Torture is in no way any kind of deterrent to them.

Threaten to kill/torture their loved ones
OR
Threaten to kill them with a slab of bacon in their mouths, disqualifying them from martyrdom.

You know, I'd like to point out that the "cruel and unusual" punishment bit is quite a nice piece of sophistry. Punishment, by its nature, is cruel and unusual; you're deliberately depriving someone of their goods, time, etc., to "rectify" a violation of a social contract and create an example to others of what happens when they step out of line of that contract.

Frankly, punishment should be cruel and unusual, but correctly applied. Four years of your life for stealing a $2,000 bag? A person on minimum wage would make $40,000 during that time. Why not just return the bag and pay a fine equivalent to what you stole, and maybe a punitive fine on top? Four years of your life for dope possession? Why not just do ten lashes in public, using shame to rectify the behavior? Corporal punishment doesn't work, you say? I think most parents who actually raise their children would disagree, as opposed to experts who dick around with an agenda. (I'm sure Theaetetus would say that lashes are banned by the coda above, but I'm just exploring the idea right now)

Honestly, fear and shame are very powerful when it comes to getting people to comply with the social contract. Honestly, though, revving a bitless drill or displaying an unloaded handgun aren't torture. They're intimidation tactics. There are people who crack when you look at them mean, and there are people who are cool no matter what you do short of torture. I'd say the only thing wrong with fear of punishment as opposed to actual torture is that the suspects may say what you want to hear as opposed to the truth.

Orgasmatron138:

[clip]

Terrorists should get due process. If you have to bend the rules to get evidence, bend it in an area that produces real proof. But once you know who the players are, give them their day in court.

Refuse to drop to their level, and take away a lot of the will to fight.

turn in your playground lawyer card, smart man, because perverted thinking like that is gonna get more of your fellow citizens killed in their own hometowns.