This kinda makes me wonder about that whole "multiple intelligences" thing I heard about in school (i.e. musical, kinesthetic, verbal, intrapersonal, etc.). Wonder if it's a better fit than the traditional model...

You're a moran, subby. I never studied at all in college, and I got correct answers to questions that weren't even on the tests!

And your nose is too big.

Can someone sum the article up for me? I have a hard time reading anything that doesn't have bullet points.

My study habits are thus: I smoke a lot of weed, go to all my classes, read the material, write down questions to ask in-class, smoke a lot more weed. Oh and I worked stressful jobs for 15 years before going to school and pay for it myself and I don't have a safety-net so I value my education.

I think the two biggest factors for students who are not doing well are 1) they have absolutely no appreciation for how much better it is to be in a classroom than it is to be in a data center or a cubicle and 2) everyone goes on to college these days, and let's face it a lot of your kids are stupid farking assholes who don't have the intellect to succeed in cerebral environments.

/yeah I know the article is about little kids, but they are mostly stupid too. You ever talk to a little kid? farking morons.

Duh. I figured that out from my last F.

I don't go to collage.

I never did any of this.

When I was in college I used to get wicked hammered. My nickname was Puke. I would chug a fifth of So Co, sneak into a frat party, polish off a few people's empties, some brewskies, some Jell-o shots, do some body shots off myself... Pass out, wake up the next morning, boot, rally, more So Co, head to class. Probably would've got expelled if I had've let it affect my grades but I aced all my courses. They called me Ace. It was totally awesome. Got straight B's. They called me Buzz.

To this day, I still don't know what studying actually is. Doing homework, reading the materials, thinking about the materials, classwork, etc, I know that, but I ask something what studying is and I get vague responses like "well, you know... it's studying." Seriously, what the fark does that mean?

/not doing too well in college

Yet there are effective approaches to learning, at least for those who are motivated.

I'm convinced this is the key. I had to put up with so many complete losers who will never amount to anything. These people even drifted through college somehow. It was more of a serious problem in high school and middle school.

Some kids are too stupid to understand that education is good for them. No matter how hard you try, you will never get them to learn anything.

We need an education system with 3 different approaches to education.
1. A basic high school experience for approximately 60% of students. Pretty much what high school is right now.
2. A vocational option for those who don't care to sit through english and math classes and will look for a job immediately after high school. This will be for approximately 30% of all students.
3. Finally an advanced school for the remaining 10%. This school would be for those who actually care about learning and want to be undisturbed while doing so.

I know it's a ridiculous idea that will never happen, but I really wish that schools could have done something with the students who truly didn't care to be there. They aren't going to learn so why force them to go?

We need an education system with 3 different approaches to education.
1. A basic high school experience for approximately 60% of students. Pretty much what high school is right now.
2. A vocational option for those who don't care to sit through english and math classes and will look for a job immediately after high school. This will be for approximately 30% of all students.
3. Finally an advanced school for the remaining 10%. This school would be for those who actually care about learning and want to be undisturbed while doing so.

Only if the job they are looking for is washing dishes or something along those lines. Everything else needs math. Vocational schools have to teach math as plumbers and carpenters and such need it.

Memorization and regurgitation. Don't ask me anything about last semester.

NotARocketScientist: Only if the job they are looking for is washing dishes or something along those lines. Everything else needs math. Vocational schools have to teach math as plumbers and carpenters and such need it.


the math a plumber or carpenter needs can be taught by grade 6.

go ahead and watch them figure stuff out, I mean the good ones even.

Axel_Gear: I'm convinced this is the key. I had to put up with so many complete losers who will never amount to anything. These people even drifted through college somehow. It was more of a serious problem in high school and middle school.

This is a problem that is mainly due to that you are seen as a failure if you don't pass college, have a low requirement job, or are in a lower class.
Yes, some people will not do as much as other people, or have the same social class needed for other jobs. The problem is people looking down on them, thus they are taught if you can't be the best, you're worthless.
Probably one of the better examples of this is the phrase, "The world always needs ditch diggers." While this phrase is true, it's imbued with such malice that makes people think if you're in a "dumb" job, you're worthless and not deserving of respect.
Thus, we have everyone striving to be the best when some people can't, and those that can't try to force themselves to be the best, rather than average, because no one likes someone who is just average in this world.
And really, that's what it comes down to: You're either one of the best, or one of the losers. The way things are taught, by parents and by schools, is that being average and happy is something to be ashamed of, while being the best, if at the cost of your happiness, is required above all.
That people are judged by the amount of intelligence their job requires, above all else, is rather irritating, to say the least.

Can somebody summarize that? It was long and I got distr

Their denial of visual/auditory learners is complete BS. I am a very visual learner, which I learned halfway through sophomore year of high school. I make flowcharts, or somesuch, of everything in my head and remember it forever. Contrawise, most sound is in one ear and out the other.

A girl I knew in high school was just the opposite; audio all the way. She loved books on tape. She would even literally read the textbook to herself into a tape recorder. Then she would play the tape so she could hear the words, and in one listening, memorize the book perfectly.

I can't stand books on tape. In fact, I sometimes turn on Closed Captioning on the TV because it's far easier for me to read the text than to hear the sounds, especially if the characters are whispering. I'm looking forward to the day Youtube videos are CCed.

Pichu0102: Axel_Gear: I'm convinced this is the key. I had to put up with so many complete losers who will never amount to anything. These people even drifted through college somehow. It was more of a serious problem in high school and middle school.

This is a problem that is mainly due to that you are seen as a failure if you don't pass college, have a low requirement job, or are in a lower class.
Yes, some people will not do as much as other people, or have the same social class needed for other jobs. The problem is people looking down on them, thus they are taught if you can't be the best, you're worthless.
Probably one of the better examples of this is the phrase, "The world always needs ditch diggers." While this phrase is true, it's imbued with such malice that makes people think if you're in a "dumb" job, you're worthless and not deserving of respect.
Thus, we have everyone striving to be the best when some people can't, and those that can't try to force themselves to be the best, rather than average, because no one likes someone who is just average in this world.
And really, that's what it comes down to: You're either one of the best, or one of the losers. The way things are taught, by parents and by schools, is that being average and happy is something to be ashamed of, while being the best, if at the cost of your happiness, is required above all.
That people are judged by the amount of intelligence their job requires, above all else, is rather irritating, to say the least.

This really isn't what I'm getting at. The world needs competent plumbers, electricians, carpenters, auto mechanics, etc...

Would you want someone who is "dumb" wiring the electricity in your home? I sure wouldn't and I certainly dont view the people who do that as "dumb" or second class citizens or what have you.

I'm more referring to the weapons grade idiot students or the ones who have deep emotional issues and probably should be in some sort of counseling sessions rather than in school. Nothing the school can do will get through to them. They need better tools to deal with kids like that. After you've given a student detentions for the 50th time in a single year it should be fairly obvious that the system in place isn't working.

B.S. subby My study habits are fine. I wait until the last minute and then do my homework the night before it's due. Like right now, I am putting off a paper that is due tomorrow until later. A final that is due Thursday, I will do tomorrow. I have a 3.7 GPA. It seems fine to me.

/Voting enabled?

kenkire: B.S. subby My study habits are fine. I wait until the last minute and then do my homework the night before it's due. Like right now, I am putting off a paper that is due tomorrow until later. A final that is due Thursday, I will do tomorrow. I have a 3.7 GPA. It seems fine to me.

/Voting enabled?

Didn't school just start like 6 days ago? That is a seriously advanced school you are going to.

College LOL. I go to college year round. I just finished summer term. 2 week till fall term starts.

Well constructed classes make learning material self evident in the process. It is still very time dependent, but just reading the book isn't exactly going to cut it in order to learn organic chemistry. Good (teaching) professors understand this

Also: Bloom's Taxonomy is an excellent reference on levels of learning
Link (new window)

"I mean, it's school. School sucks, right?"

inigo montoya's father: Memorization and regurgitation. Don't ask me anything about last semester.

That's well-addressed in the article. I'm guilty of it as well.

I took a bunch of Scandinavian Lit and barely remember a thing. Strindberg, Ibsen and Hans Christian Andersen. I read other authors' entire books, got As and Bs, and I can't remember shiat.

Sim Tree: Their denial of visual/auditory learners is complete BS. I am a very visual learner, which I learned halfway through sophomore year of high school. I make flowcharts, or somesuch, of everything in my head and remember it forever. Contrawise, most sound is in one ear and out the other.

A girl I knew in high school was just the opposite; audio all the way. She loved books on tape. She would even literally read the textbook to herself into a tape recorder. Then she would play the tape so she could hear the words, and in one listening, memorize the book perfectly.

I can't stand books on tape. In fact, I sometimes turn on Closed Captioning on the TV because it's far easier for me to read the text than to hear the sounds, especially if the characters are whispering. I'm looking forward to the day Youtube videos are CCed.

Many youtube videos are CCed. The speech recognition technology isn't perfect, but it's there.

I got through high school getting B's and C's without cracking a book. I went to college and crashed and burned in 5 quarters. I had zero study habits. Would have helped if I went to class, but mostly I blame the study habits.

I am convinced, the most important skill that anyone can learn to succeed at any level of school is to figure out how to retain and access information. Oh, and how to copy homework without getting caught.

Counter_Intelligent: This kinda makes me wonder about that whole "multiple intelligences" thing I heard about in school (i.e. musical, kinesthetic, verbal, intrapersonal, etc.). Wonder if it's a better fit than the traditional model...

This has to be one of the biggest farces in education...people have grasped onto this concept as the gospel despite there being zero evidence that multiple intelligences exist. Gardner himself gave up on trying to find evidence of it. One study that I read found that the eight so called 'intelligences' all load onto a measure of general intelligence. Multiple learning styles, sure, but not intelligences.

habitual_masticator: I got through high school getting B's and C's without cracking a book. I went to college and crashed and burned in 5 quarters. I had zero study habits. Would have helped if I went to class, but mostly I blame the study habits.

This, though I wouldn't go straight to crashed and burned. I went for 3 years, then took 6 years off, and then went back at night to finish. With a *little* focus, I could have just finished that las..... ooooooooo! Donuts!

Seriously, though... my sister has a PhD in Physics. I have a business admin degree from a directional state school. Supposably Supposively Supposedly, all the standardized tests said I was the smarter of the two of us. She got 100% of the focus/dedication gene.

Luckily, I got the good looks and personality.

Axel_Gear:
We need an education system with 3 different approaches to education.
1. A basic high school experience for approximately 60% of students. Pretty much what high school is right now.
2. A vocational option for those who don't care to sit through english and math classes and will look for a job immediately after high school. This will be for approximately 30% of all students.
3. Finally an advanced school for the remaining 10%. This school would be for those who actually care about learning and want to be undisturbed while doing so.


Be awfully careful thinking this. I was reading an interview recently with a small business owner who couldn't find anyone to work for him. He paid something like $20/hour with benefits, no college degree required- a great blue color job. But you had to be able to run a CNC mill, and all the folks out there who thought that math was optional in HS couldn't do it reliably.

There's no escaping a technical education these days unless you're willing to push buttons on the Fryolator the rest of your life.

Pichu0102: To this day, I still don't know what studying actually is. Doing homework, reading the materials, thinking about the materials, classwork, etc, I know that, but I ask something what studying is and I get vague responses like "well, you know... it's studying." Seriously, what the fark does that mean?

/not doing too well in college

Studying 101.
1. Read the material before the class that covers it. That way you have exposure too it before the prof discusses it.
2. Show up to class, take notes, ask questions, and do the homework.
3. Read the material after the class that covers it and figure out how it applies. You will have a greater understanding.
4. Read the material a third time before the test. Also work more practice problems.

According to this article you should also vary the places you study and the things you study when you are studying. So schedule time to at least two different subjects or in one subject do reading and problems or problems and memorization, and study in different places. The theory is your memory is richer, more complex, and lasts longer if you vary what you are studying, how you are studying, where you are studying and the time/days you are studying.

Don't worry though I did not figure out good study habits until my last semester senior year, you still can get through it.

logruszed:
....and let's face it a lot of your kids are stupid farking assholes who don't have the intellect to succeed in cerebral environments.

Hey, Look! I found one!


Pichu0102: To this day, I still don't know what studying actually is. Doing homework, reading the materials, thinking about the materials, classwork, etc, I know that, but I ask something what studying is and I get vague responses like "well, you know... it's studying." Seriously, what the fark does that mean?

/Fugging books. How do they work?!

you mean reading fark and masturbating won't get me an A?

Axel_Gear: Yet there are effective approaches to learning, at least for those who are motivated.

I'm convinced this is the key. I had to put up with so many complete losers who will never amount to anything. These people even drifted through college somehow. It was more of a serious problem in high school and middle school.

Some kids are too stupid to understand that education is good for them. No matter how hard you try, you will never get them to learn anything.

We need an education system with 3 different approaches to education.
1. A basic high school experience for approximately 60% of students. Pretty much what high school is right now.
2. A vocational option for those who don't care to sit through english and math classes and will look for a job immediately after high school. This will be for approximately 30% of all students.
3. Finally an advanced school for the remaining 10%. This school would be for those who actually care about learning and want to be undisturbed while doing so.

I know it's a ridiculous idea that will never happen, but I really wish that schools could have done something with the students who truly didn't care to be there. They aren't going to learn so why force them to go?

What happens to the kids who are perfectly smart but just not mature and focused enough yet? Do they get a second chance later to go to college?

I think about this stuff all the time - being a bio/chemistry tutor for the athletics department at a div-1 large state school.

First, this "learning styles" thing is like a religion. Early on at this job, the director took me aside to ask me about my teaching styke . She said that it seemed like I relied almost entirely on "visual modalities" and that she was concerned.

I told her that the class I was tutoring presents info in visual form and that tests require drawing - so visual learning was intrinsically most important. This look came across her face - that "mom when you did something wrong"-look and she lectured me on it for 20 minutes-she seemed unwilling to let me go until I agreed to switch to reading/auditory based training with a particular student. She seemed totally ignorant of the subject-matter - so yeah, I ended up having to explain the structure of proteins entirely in words to a girl who claimed she wasn't a "visual learner".

Guess what happened to her? Well, let's just say the bench of a particular title-winning womans team isn't as deep this semester.

Also, that difficulty comment from TFA shouldn't be taken out of context. I attended a really challenging undergrad. It seemed like a lot of the problems were "brain-teasers" often at the expense of testing the material. When I took deficiency courses as a grad, I found that the straightforward, non-brain teaser approach left me with much better knowledge of the subject. Tests really did highlight what I didn't know - rather than making me feel puzzled (which happened sometimes even when I got "a"s).

Education really needs some serious reality checks

Sim Tree: Their denial of visual/auditory learners is complete BS. I am a very visual learner, which I learned halfway through sophomore year of high school. I make flowcharts, or somesuch, of everything in my head and remember it forever. Contrawise, most sound is in one ear and out the other.

A girl I knew in high school was just the opposite; audio all the way. She loved books on tape. She would even literally read the textbook to herself into a tape recorder. Then she would play the tape so she could hear the words, and in one listening, memorize the book perfectly.

I can't stand books on tape. In fact, I sometimes turn on Closed Captioning on the TV because it's far easier for me to read the text than to hear the sounds, especially if the characters are whispering. I'm looking forward to the day Youtube videos are CCed.

I actually learn better visually too and have an almost photographic memory - to the point I have often known exactly where on a page to look for a quote (but often not the page number, just if it is left or right page).

I got through college by writing pages and pages of notes each lesson to the point I annoyed my Economics teacher.

My study habits in post-secondary

-Go to class
-Work full time job
-read material while extracting important information and typing it down.
-sleep 3 hours a night
-read typed notes 3 times before the test
-Pass with a 80% average.

/The program director said I would not pass unless I worked under 25 hours a week.
//Coolest story ever bro.

monsieurstabby: Axel_Gear: Yet there are effective approaches to learning, at least for those who are motivated.

I'm convinced this is the key. I had to put up with so many complete losers who will never amount to anything. These people even drifted through college somehow. It was more of a serious problem in high school and middle school.

Some kids are too stupid to understand that education is good for them. No matter how hard you try, you will never get them to learn anything.

We need an education system with 3 different approaches to education.
1. A basic high school experience for approximately 60% of students. Pretty much what high school is right now.
2. A vocational option for those who don't care to sit through english and math classes and will look for a job immediately after high school. This will be for approximately 30% of all students.
3. Finally an advanced school for the remaining 10%. This school would be for those who actually care about learning and want to be undisturbed while doing so.

I know it's a ridiculous idea that will never happen, but I really wish that schools could have done something with the students who truly didn't care to be there. They aren't going to learn so why force them to go?

What happens to the kids who are perfectly smart but just not mature and focused enough yet? Do they get a second chance later to go to college?

Why wouldn't they? Lots of people wait to go to college. In fact, its probably better that way. Schools today are too much of a "one size fits all" affair. All kids are different and schools should do the least they can and cater to at least a few large "types" of students.

My idea is more or less trying to put kids into a school environment they actually care to be in. When they don't care to be there they tend to do stupid things, mostly out of boredom. Kids who act out in class disrupt the experience for others who want to be there.