gopher321: Ohhhh, putting your junk mail on top of your Blackberry...

Gotcha.

In fairness, that was the best meeting..ever. well, until those cops showed up..

While I was out of the country on a vacation in the beginning of July I left my blackberry at home with its battery removed and the case popped on top of

If it was powered down you need the SIM code to make calls again. How did the "thief" get that?

I'm all for paying bills, but these phone companies aren't really doing due diligence when extending unlimited credit lines with every phone. Giving out an unsecured loan of $6000 is bad business. He should default on his bill and they should pick it up for their bad lending practices.

FTA While I was out my mother came over to do some cleaning and she threw swept all the junk mail along with my cellphone into the trash and threw it out.

WTF does this even mean? His mom stops by his apartment, frequently enough that she has a key, to clean up his place? That's pathetic.

littlebadwolf: I'm all for paying bills, but these phone companies aren't really doing due diligence when extending unlimited credit lines with every phone. Giving out an unsecured loan of $6000 is bad business.

However this isn't a loan, it probably costs them nowhere near 6 grand to connect these services. So they let idiots run up huge phone bills and even if a few can't pay, oh well, enough do that its good biz.

No pity for these idiots anyway, no one but themselves to blame.

In all fairness, mom is the idiot here.
Her kid, on the other hand, is a lazy POS that expects his mom to clean his room while he goes jetsetting.

Meh. Just throw the whole bunch in a trash compactor.

That sucks. Next time don't leave anything valuable out when you are letting people into your apartment.

From my experience, everyone has "carefully cared for credit". Which usually means multiple 30 and 60 day lates, charge-offs, and possibly bankruptcy. High DTI is also common among people with great credit.

Indolent: gopher321: Ohhhh, putting your junk mail on top of your Blackberry...

Gotcha.

What if my wife wants to put blackberry on my junk? Is that ok? She makes some good jelly & jams.

Just don't get impatient. Gotta give the jam time to cool first. Trust me on this one.

/every year, same thing
//race with the deer to get to the blackberries first
///try not to eat them all before I get time to make jam
//learn again how hot jam resembles napalm
/burns AND sticks

lilplatinum: While I was out of the country on a vacation in the beginning of July I left my blackberry at home with its battery removed and the case popped on top of

If it was powered down you need the SIM code to make calls again. How did the "thief" get that?

what model? You can turn the phone on and immediately start making calls by default, unless that's something only enabled on certain networks.

Vern: From my experience, everyone has "carefully cared for credit". Which usually means multiple 30 and 60 day lates, charge-offs, and possibly bankruptcy. High DTI is also common among people with great credit.

Ummm, what? Not saying this guy has great credit but you say all people have bad credit? No, not really. There's plenty of people out there with legitimately good credit records. In fact, before the recession, the majority of people had "good credit" meaning a FICO score above about 700.

If you have poor credit that's ok, perhaps somethign happened that caused it, but don't assume everyone else does.


As for the parties involved, I find little sympathy for either. Kid was a retard for not putting the phone in a safe place. For that matter, why didn't it come with him? T-Mobile is GSM, you can just buy a prepaid GSM chip for it and use it while traveling. Cheaper than buying a prepaid cell.

However T-Mobile is stupid too. It makes business sense to let overages happen, but when it goes beyond a reasonable amount, say 10x the normal monthly bill, time to pull the plug. No matter what is happening the likelihood that you see the massive amount you are billing is virtually nil. The larger the amount, the more likely the default.

Both sides can suck eggs IMO.

Bathia_Mapes: I don't know about you, submitter, but I'd get a bit upset if Verizon was trying to bill me for calls made on my T-Mobile phone

I never had that problem with verizon. However I did with AT&T.

If you think its hard to get AT&T to fix your bill, try doing it when you don't have an account.

2, 3 days after hitting Consumerist and this wasn't greenlit prior?

This should be an open and shut case. Mom should pay the farking bill!

littlebadwolf: I'm all for paying bills, but these phone companies aren't really doing due diligence when extending unlimited credit lines with every phone. Giving out an unsecured loan of $6000 is bad business. He should default on his bill and they should pick it up for their bad lending practices.

This. Not to mention that nobody even wants that unlimited line of credit. A $6000 phone bill from someone who was previously a normal customer is illegitimate on the face of it; the odds of it being a legitimate, intentional charge are absolutely laughable. It's basically the phone company acting as an accomplice for the person who stole the phone.

Making the phone company eat the charge isn't really a solution because this sort of thing costs them pennies anyway, so they don't have any motivation to stop at least trying for it. Some kind of legislation or legal action is needed. This is ridiculous and there's no real reason we should have to put up with it.

Mitrovarr: littlebadwolf: I'm all for paying bills, but these phone companies aren't really doing due diligence when extending unlimited credit lines with every phone. Giving out an unsecured loan of $6000 is bad business. He should default on his bill and they should pick it up for their bad lending practices.

This. Not to mention that nobody even wants that unlimited line of credit. A $6000 phone bill from someone who was previously a normal customer is illegitimate on the face of it; the odds of it being a legitimate, intentional charge are absolutely laughable. It's basically the phone company acting as an accomplice for the person who stole the phone.

Making the phone company eat the charge isn't really a solution because this sort of thing costs them pennies anyway, so they don't have any motivation to stop at least trying for it. Some kind of legislation or legal action is needed. This is ridiculous and there's no real reason we should have to put up with it.

If the dude was not going to bring his Blackberry with him to Europe he should have logged onto his account and deactivated the phone.

Somaticasual: what model? You can turn the phone on and immediately start making calls by default, unless that's something only enabled on certain networks.

All vodaphone phones here have sim locks by default, I assumed other places would be similarly smart.

Still, the options there. If you leave your door unlocked you shouldn't be shocked when something happens.

The sad truth is 80% of these investigations show there was no fraud. Just someone trying to get out of paying there bill.

I can't honestly find T Moble at fault for finind this story fishy.

Mock26: If the dude was not going to bring his Blackberry with him to Europe he should have logged onto his account and deactivated the phone.

This doesn't address the root of the problem - phone companies are forcing people to accept huge lines of credit they don't want. They only do it in the hopes that you either mess up or have your phone stolen. It's purely anti-consumer behavior that we shouldn't tolerate.

Phone companies could avoid this by offering flat fee plans. They'd make money hand over fist on a $75 unlimited everything plan for Crackberries.

Mitrovarr: It's basically the phone company acting as an accomplice for the person who stole the phone.

That's quite a stretch there.

Mitrovarr: This doesn't address the root of the problem - phone companies are forcing people to accept huge lines of credit they don't want

No they aren't. In fact you can disable long distance calling or toll numbers. In fact, who the fark pays for long distance anymore, anyways. All the phones I had were flat rates and I left America 3 years ago, I can't imagine we've gone backwards.

Mitrovarr: This doesn't address the root of the problem - phone companies are forcing people to accept huge lines of credit they don't want. They only do it in the hopes that you either mess up or have your phone stolen. It's purely anti-consumer behavior that we shouldn't tolerate.

There is no long distance on T-Mobile, overage charges are at worst $.35 a minute, international/roaming is blocked by default and they will cut off making calls at 30 days past due. The only way this happened is he turned on international calling and the phone was used a lot.
T Mobile has to pay for the time on other systems and passes the bill on. So T-Mobile got a several thousand dollar bill too, it's not just a few penny's. My bet is his mom found the phone and called her little snowflake every day, he thought since it was a vacation he could use the stolen excuse.

Oh, and as long as I'm complaining, I might as well offer a solution. Here's the rule I suggest:

1. Phone companies just can't offer you credit, period, unless you sign a statement authorizing them to, with a specified amount. They can't require this, can't require a certain amount of it, and can't give incentives for it, either. They can specify a maximum, and that's it.

2. If you hit the limit, everything on your phone that requires additional charges stops working immediately. The phone company may contact you, but you cannot raise the limit without a physical visit to a store to authorize a new credit limit (where they verify your ID), or unless you provide an alternative source of payment over the phone.

Anyone see any problems with this solution?

RayD8: Mitrovarr: It's basically the phone company acting as an accomplice for the person who stole the phone.

That's quite a stretch there.

Not necessarily. Phone companies monitor usage. It is just part of how their hardware and software works. Thus they should be able to monitor for massive over usage, and notice if it is strange and see if something should be done.

Credit card companies do this. They have all kinds of things that can set off a warning. If they detect strange behaviour they call, or shut down the card. Had that happen to mine. I bought 3 reasonably large ticket items in town in the space of an hour at 3 stores, one of which I never shop at. As I was driving home, I got a call to see if it was legit.

Why? Because in the event of unauthorized usage, the owner of the card isn't liable for anything. Means either they get stuck or the merchant gets stuck. They have incentive to make sure that you are the one making purchases.

It is not too much to ask phone companies to do the same. If I never call Japan, and suddenly a 4 hour call to Japan happens, they should wonder what is up. If this goes on, they should shut down the phone, send it a message that says to call them and verify things. If it really is me, no problem I call the number, verify my info, and am back to placing calls.

When it gets to such a massive level, the amount alone should flag it is a problem. That is doesn't means they are sort of being willful in their ignorance.

Mitrovarr: 1. Phone companies just can't offer you credit, period, unless you sign a statement authorizing them to

You already do this, it is called your contract.

Indolent: Yes it is. and I'm jealous.

Well yeah, who isn't?

Seems like BS or a family of morons. Why would he agree to pay $2000 let alone anything when your phone gets stolen?! Seems like he did make the calls and was making up a BS story to reduce the charges.

lilplatinum: You already do this, it is called your contract.

Yeah, it was more about the later parts of that line - the parts where you MUST specify a maximum, and they cannot make you take credit, make you take X amount of credit, or make it cheaper if you do.

Mitrovarr: Yeah, it was more about the later parts of that line - the parts where you MUST specify a maximum, and they cannot make you take credit, make you take X amount of credit, or make it cheaper if you do.

The laws for actually offering credit are different from being billed for a service you use at the end of every month based on how much you are using it. While you may see no difference, the law does.

Your power company is not lending you money every month because they let you run up an electric bill, neither is your water, cable, or phone companies.

Sure, its dick of them to not check, but its your responsibility to secure your accounts. If you leave your phone lying around unlocked and dont report it stolen, it sounds a bit fishy to me.

vorsicht: T Mobile has to pay for the time on other systems and passes the bill on. So T-Mobile got a several thousand dollar bill too, it's not just a few penny's. My bet is his mom found the phone and called her little snowflake every day, he thought since it was a vacation he could use the stolen excuse.

Well, if T-Mobile does have to eat thousands of dollars on this, I'm willing to chalk that up to the 'Thinking a normal person would want to make $6000 of international calls in one month' tax. Hell, I'd fine them more for allowing it. Nobody wants to run up a $6000 phone bill without making special arrangements first, and only an idiot would think they would. Or at the very least, it's incredibly unlikely and you should confirm with the customer - the odds are vastly in favor of it being an illegitimate charge.

And if it's fraudulent, well, all the numbers dialed from and to are in a computer network somewhere. That won't exactly be hard to figure out. This does happen for real, though, and I've gotten sick of seeing stories on it.

From a moral standpoint, the guy whose phone was supposedly stolen for months and went unreported is at fault. Between T-Mobile and him, I'd say that T-Mobile is the party least at fault and they certainly shouldn't be forced to eat the charges. This guy was incompetent enough to leave his unlocked phone someplace where it could be used by people for a month without him reporting it stolen.

Also, mobile phone providers do have to pay when things like this happen. If the person who stole the phone was making calls on another network then T-Mobile is charged for that usage whether or not this guy pays his bill or not. So it's incorrect to suggest that it only cost them pennies for the $6000 in calls. It cost them thousands in charges that they have to pay to whatever company owned or leased the towers that the thief was using.

That being said, T-Mobile, and all phone companies should make it so your monthly bill never goes above $200/mo by default unless you specifically request a higher limit.

lilplatinum: The laws for actually offering credit are different from being billed for a service you use at the end of every month based on how much you are using it. While you may see no difference, the law does.

Why are you pointing out what the law says when I'm specifically trying to argue that we need to change that law?

Mitrovarr: Why are you pointing out what the law says when I'm specifically trying to argue that we need to change that law?

Because fundamentally changing the nature of the word "credit" is a bit more of a deal than what you are proposing, and certainly not worth the effort simply to protect people from their own stupidity.

Mitrovarr: Well, if T-Mobile does have to eat thousands of dollars on this, I'm willing to chalk that up to the 'Thinking a normal person would want to make $6000 of international calls in one month' tax. Hell, I'd fine them more for allowing it. Nobody wants to run up a $6000 phone bill without making special arrangements first, and only an idiot would think they would. Or at the very least, it's incredibly unlikely and you should confirm with the customer - the odds are vastly in favor of it being an illegitimate charge.

It's not hard to get up to $6000 in international charges in a month. That is why there is a whole credit check / contract thing when you enable international calls. I have no sympathy for the "I didn't read the contract excuse". With a story that conveniently gets around all the security measures, I would want some kind of proof too.

Sure I whined and tantrumed when T-Mobile gave my brother a $1000 bill. But he didn't report his phone stolen for a week out of embarrassment. In the end T-Mobile settled for their costs of $800 that I see as fair. Also I give props to the T-Mobile rep who fully called me out.

And this is why I use a prepay account. It'd suck to lose my phone, but at leastI'm not stuck with a bill for someone else's douchery!

Mock26: If the dude was not going to bring his Blackberry with him to Europe he should have logged onto his account and deactivated the phone.

Seriously? That's as stupid as telling someone who was a victim of car theft that they should have taken the battery out before going on vacation. WTF?!

As for $6k in charges, I'm not sure that I'd know how to even do that. I mean, what the hell do you have to do to create a $6k bill? There's certainly nothing that an individual could possibly do on any phone that is worth $6k unless the idiot company allows you to bill your Amazon purchases to you account or some other absurd shiat.

vorsicht: It's not hard to get up to $6000 in international charges in a month.

Then there is obviously a class of people that need to have their mouths sewn shut for their own good. Holy fark!

Also a prepaid SIM user here. Only problem I ever had with it was when I accidentally added funds to the wrong number. Hope whoever had that number enjoyed the free airtime. :)

Prepaid SIMs have the potential issue of running out of airtime when you really need to make an important call. The provider I use (DNA Finland) allows two "emergency call" numbers that can be called for something like three minutes if the account is depleted. I've never had to use this feature, but it's nice to know it's there.

vrax: I mean, what the hell do you have to do to create a $6k bill

I've had several thousand euro phone bills for work before, easier than they think.

Plus, the asshole could have called 900 numbers.

vrax: vorsicht: It's not hard to get up to $6000 in international charges in a month.

Then there is obviously a class of people that need to have their mouths sewn shut for their own good. Holy fark!

Peru was $11 a minute and Germany was 5% a miunte. That is 20-40 minutes a day. When I am dealing with a forengn customer

What I said earlier is, the situation sounds like he left the phone with his mother, figuring he could write off charges for strange numbers and international calls by claiming theft. 30 minutes a day is just about right.

Peru was $11 a minute and Germany was $5 a minute. That is 20-40 minutes a day. Easy to do when dealing with a foreign customer.

/FTFM

/Ctl+V is hard

Verizon rates hover between 1.50 - 2 bucks a minute (or nearly 5 for antartica, 9-10 if you are calling a sat phone).

Racking up 50 hours of international calls is certainly doable.

T-mobile this, T-mobile that.

As mentioned above, his mother apparently has a key to his apartment. She also thought it would be nice to clean up the place so he had a nice home to return to after his oversea adventure. I can totally understand that.

What I don't understand is how someone in his mother's position would see a pile of mail on the table and think "Oh, this is all junk mail. I'll just sweep the entire pile into the trash without looking under the first mailer." I mean, if my mother had that level of dementia, I'd be more concerned about who's taking care of her, and she sure as hell wouldn't have a key to my house.

More proof it's fake?

Who stores their blackberry "with its battery removed and the case popped" under, or even near a pile of farking junk mail on a common table?

"I really dont know what to do, I dont have the money to pay, I cant buy a new cellphone and activate a line as long as I have to be paying for this."

Sue your mom for mail theft.

lilplatinum: vrax: I mean, what the hell do you have to do to create a $6k bill

I've had several thousand euro phone bills for work before, easier than they think.

Plus, the asshole could have called 900 numbers.

It shouldn't even be possible to be billed at that level for an individual account. It's the type of thing where there should be a either a cap on the amount you are required to contribute to the service or a high-usage flat fee up front. If I can download endless gigabytes of data for a fairly low, flat monthly rate at home, the cost differential should no longer be so astronomical for the small fraction of that data carried by wireless providers. It's an industry that needs a serious reboot. There's no excuse for these charges any longer.