Why do people demand more than they can deliver?

Avatar's crap story aside, the protag couldn't even maintain accent consistency. What kind of "perfectionist" director lets his lead slip between American and Australian accents?

TFA: ...he had only ever lost his cool on set as he expects the best of his cast and crew.

That's right up there with the only mistake I made is when I thought I was wrong and it turned out I was right to begin with or my major failing is caring too much.

Wolverines: GreenAdder: He demands excellence? How does he explain "Avatar?"

I know, right? Worst farking movie ever made but people kept going to see it over and over across the globe making it the #1 movie in the history of the planet by a wide margin. Farking trash.

Because quality is determined democratically?

I think what he means is that he wants things exactly the way he imagines them to be. Excellence is another story entirely. Although, its hard to argue that the guy knows how to make people go see his movies.

Wolverines: GreenAdder: He demands excellence? How does he explain "Avatar?"

I know, right? Worst farking movie ever made but people kept going to see it over and over across the globe making it the #1 movie in the history of the planet by a wide margin. Farking trash.

I know! It's the Star Wars prequels all over again!

Wolverines: Mother's Bloody Sperm: Because quality is determined democratically?

In the case of entertainment, that's exactly right.

I'll play your game, lets check the opinions of people who have made a profession out of reviewing movies. Avatar sits at 95% among top critics according to Rotten Tomatoes. Guess that doesn't help you make your case either.

Haters gonna hate

Therefore Harry Potter and Twilight are pinnacles of literature because they made tons and tons of money.

That argument also doesn't take into consideration 'masterpieces' that were both financial and critical failures in their time, but have come to be appreciated by modern generations.

'Quality' can have an objective element to it, at least to a significant degree. We have whole academic fields dedicated to cinema and literature, presupposing that there is some standard to these forms.

Further, a RottenTomatoes score isn't indicative of anything. It's a really haphazard way of attempting to quantify a qualitative analysis. If every single review said, "The graphics were phenomenal, the writing septic, but a must see for the visuals alone," that would be a 100% on the meter. The content of these reviews isn't analyzed at all. I think if you actually read them, you would find that no, it is not considered a 'masterpiece' of cinema, merely a 'masterpiece', if that, of aesthetic.

Wolverines: Mother's Bloody Sperm: Therefore Harry Potter and Twilight are pinnacles of literature because they made tons and tons of money.

Wait, so every book you read, every movie you see and every TV show you watch have to be what you would describe as a "masterpiece". Funny, I thought the whole point of spending money on entertainment was to be, you know, entertained.

Anytime I'm flipping channels and 'Cops' is on I have to watch. Someone will always ask me why I'm watching it and I say I like it, it's really interesting to me. Then the person usually says something like "Come on, Cops?"
Yes "Cops". I don't need art to bring meaning or inspiration to my life. I just want to see the perp beat beat down.

When did Jake ever have an Australian accent? He sounded pretty dead set American the whole time to me. I just have a hard time seeing Avatar as the smelly ball of shiat the haters seem to have watched.

Seriously, break it down for me. What exactly was I supposed to be so disappointed by in this movie? The only stupid thing that brought me away was "Unobtainium."

Apparantly he was a true asshole on the set of the Abyss.
From imdb:During the rigorous and problematic shoot, the cast and crew began calling the film by various derogatory names such as "Son Of Abyss", "The Abuse" and "Life's Abyss And Then You Dive". Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio reportedly suffered a physical and emotional breakdown because she was pushed so hard on the set, and Ed Harris had to pull over his car at one time while driving home, because he burst into spontaneous crying.
I've also heard secondhand that Cameron became so enraged at one of the special effects guys he climbed into the tank and wailed on him.

Here's a link to one of the sfx guys experiences on the set and a lot of behind the scenes footage.
^
There's multiple videos but that's the first part.

Mugato: James Cameron is like that girlfriend with a beautiful set of tits but will also wield a knife on you at any time. T1 and T2, Aliens and True Lies are the beautiful set of tits. Titanic and Avatar are the knife wielding. So numerically speaking, I suppose he's ahead of the game.

Sounds like you know from personal experience (girlfriend part, anyway).

Thanks who ever did that. What am I supposed to do now?

He demands these of himself? It's about freaking time.

Wolverine: excellent gif! hahaha

Mother's Bloody Sperm: Wolverines: GreenAdder: He demands excellence? How does he explain "Avatar?"

I know, right? Worst farking movie ever made but people kept going to see it over and over across the globe making it the #1 movie in the history of the planet by a wide margin. Farking trash.

Because quality is determined democratically?

I love morons who cite profit/profitability as proof of excellence.

Mother's Bloody Sperm: Wolverines: Mother's Bloody Sperm: Because quality is determined democratically?

In the case of entertainment, that's exactly right.

I'll play your game, lets check the opinions of people who have made a profession out of reviewing movies. Avatar sits at 95% among top critics according to Rotten Tomatoes. Guess that doesn't help you make your case either.

Haters gonna hate

Therefore Harry Potter and Twilight are pinnacles of literature because they made tons and tons of money.

Not the point of your post, but I'd argue for Harry Potter being a pinnacle of literature from this era. They have just enough character development and an in-depth world to last over the next few decades. Heck the first one will be 14 years old by the time the last movie comes out. It'll be 15 by the time the all 8 movies super special extended LOTR-esque edition comes out to bluray

Again, more of an aside to the convo

Wolverines: Mother's Bloody Sperm: Because quality is determined democratically?

In the case of entertainment, that's exactly right.

I'll play your game, lets check the opinions of people who have made a profession out of reviewing movies. Avatar sits at 95% among top critics according to Rotten Tomatoes. Guess that doesn't help you make your case either.




Avatar haters remind me of...

Namahs: Wolverines: Mother's Bloody Sperm: Because quality is determined democratically?

In the case of entertainment, that's exactly right.

I'll play your game, lets check the opinions of people who have made a profession out of reviewing movies. Avatar sits at 95% among top critics according to Rotten Tomatoes. Guess that doesn't help you make your case either.

Avatar haters remind me of...

Wolverines: I love morons who try to tell the masses what is and isn't entertaining.

I didn't see anyone arguing entertainment. The password is "quality."

Avatripe was not a very good film. Deal with it.

Wolverines: Mother's Bloody Sperm: Therefore Harry Potter and Twilight are pinnacles of literature because they made tons and tons of money.

Wait, so every book you read, every movie you see and every TV show you watch have to be what you would describe as a "masterpiece". Funny, I thought the whole point of spending money on entertainment was to be, you know, entertained.

That's astute of you, picking out points I never came close to making. Well done.

How about this: If you declare a movie that 90% of people liked or loved to be the shiattiest movie of all time, you are wrong.

If you declare a movie that made the largest amount of money ever to be the greatest movie of all time based on that fact, you are also wrong.

Fair enough?

Need_MindBleach: How about this: If you declare a movie that 90% of people liked or loved to be the shiattiest movie of all time, you are wrong.

If you declare a movie that made the largest amount of money ever to be the greatest movie of all time based on that fact, you are also wrong.

Fair enough?

No, that's stupid too. The second statement is fair, that the money a film makes isn't a reflection of its quality. But the first statement is effectively a restatement of the second.

If 90% of people love it, and it's being sold on the open market, it'll fulfill that condition of making a ton of money.

Quality is not democratic. People can easily be pandered to and exploited.

Here, here's an analogue: the Bible. 70$ (or however many) people on Earth believe in it in some iteration (Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc.). Does that make it true?

That was supposed to be 70%.

It's not as ridiculous an analogue as you'd think.

Look, most people readily believe in the Bible because it appeals to them on an emotional level and it's sufficiently reasonable given their limited knowledge of objective truths.

Average consumers are, likewise, not particularly well versed in the history of literature, its progression, styles and forms. They see Twilight or Harry Potter and they see something that, within their limited scope of experience, is novel and unique. Neither is unique, neither is particularly original, but to these readers it is. And they love it and they consume, consume, consume it. Does that legitimize these products as 'good'? No. You may like it, that's fine, but outside of your limited experience, we do have objective standards.

We know what a bad sentence is, right? A bad sentence, we can recognize the badness of a unconstructed sentence that is bad? We can recognize bad pacing? Deus ex machina? The nature of dramatic tension?

It's textbook; the more you read, the more critical you become. Some authors transcend these boundaries, at least as far as they can, by attempting to create a work that's more than just aesthetic. Kundera vs. Stephen King, Vonnegut vs. John Grisham, etc.

Mattevil: Apparantly he was a true asshole on the set of the Abyss.
From imdb:During the rigorous and problematic shoot, the cast and crew began calling the film by various derogatory names such as "Son Of Abyss", "The Abuse" and "Life's Abyss And Then You Dive". Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio reportedly suffered a physical and emotional breakdown because she was pushed so hard on the set, and Ed Harris had to pull over his car at one time while driving home, because he burst into spontaneous crying.
I've also heard secondhand that Cameron became so enraged at one of the special effects guys he climbed into the tank and wailed on him.

Here's a link to one of the sfx guys experiences on the set and a lot of behind the scenes footage.
^
There's multiple videos but that's the first part.



On the laserdisc there was a great segment with Cameron yelling at everyone. Don't know if that's in the listed clips, but it's been pretty common knowledge. Mastrantonio broke down because they did so many takes of her being revived, and at one point when the camera ran out of film she said that's it.

They did have one great soundbite from the big guy (called the Hammer?) who summed it up nicely. He said every time he's on a film and someone's biatching about something he says "Fark you.. I did the Abyss..."

Demanded excellence, made excellence, and wasn't an asshole:



Psycho is 50 years-old this fall. Who the heck will be talking about Avatar in 50 years, let alone 5?

Everything - except the CGI - about Avatar was supbar, if not outright awful. Story? Trite. Script and acting? Literally cringe-inducing. Action choreography? Unremarkable. Creature/scenery designs? Star Trek-style rubber-forehead-aliens (that speak English) and dinosaurs with extra fins stuck on them.

I'm shocked that anyone comes out to defend it. Judging from the typical responses people trot out when one points out how terrible Avatar was, it honestly just looks like people are so desperate to not be seen as "snobs", that they'll convince themselves that dreck like that is ok. NO, it isn't. And if admitting that Avatar was an awful, awful film makes me a snob, or an elitist, or a hipster, or whatever the fark, I'm totally ok with that.

The guy is a self-important azzhat.

Mentalpatient87: When did Jake ever have an Australian accent? He sounded pretty dead set American the whole time to me. I just have a hard time seeing Avatar as the smelly ball of shiat the haters seem to have watched.

Seriously, break it down for me. What exactly was I supposed to be so disappointed by in this movie? The only stupid thing that brought me away was "Unobtainium."

You're in the midwest and you couldn't tell when his accent slid back to Oz? No way. To me, it was BAD, very very bad. Not Colin Ferrell 'brogue and back' in Alexander bad, but still very very bad. It made me wish they had just made his character Australian. It would have added a dash of interest and depth to this future world.

thornhill: Demanded excellence, made excellence, and wasn't an asshole:



Psycho is 50 years-old this fall. Who the heck will be talking about Avatar in 50 years, let alone 5?

Thread over.

ExperianScaresCthulhu: You're in the midwest and you couldn't tell when his accent slid back to Oz? No way.

When? If it was so glaringly obvious, give me an example. I'm sure you could find a Youtube clip...