FARK.com: (5594273) Chinese officials are forcing families with the last name "Shan" to change it, because it requires a character that can't be typed in standard word-processing programs. In fact, you might say, the fit has hit the Shan

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		Chinese officials are forcing families with the last name "Shan" to change it, because it requires a character that can't be typed in standard word-processing programs. In fact, you might say, the fit has hit the Shan (news.yahoo.com)		153
		More: Interesting

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krelborne

2010-09-02 08:57:37 AM

*golf clap*

tnpir

2010-09-02 09:38:33 AM

Hmmm.

Yes, you indeed might say that.

+1

2wolves

2010-09-02 09:41:52 AM

I call shananagans.

NuttierThanEver

2010-09-02 10:38:10 AM

grooooaaaaannnnn

/a begrudging +1 subby

DamnYankees

2010-09-02 10:52:57 AM

Can anyone find a picture of this character? I'm interested.

UNC_Samurai

2010-09-02 11:01:17 AM

Villagers in eastern China has been forced by the country's unbending bureaucracy to change their family name as the character is so rare it cannot be typed.

Apparently they're not forcing grammar on journalists.

The Stealth Hippopotamus

2010-09-02 11:08:24 AM

+1 Submitter

Also I would like to know how this goes for the government. People kill their daughters so the family name continues.

INTERTRON

2010-09-02 11:09:42 AM

You might, but it wouldn't make any sense.

Sybarite

2010-09-02 11:43:38 AM

DamnYankees: Can anyone find a picture of this character? I'm interested.

www.theepochtimes.com

Weaver95

2010-09-02 12:23:49 PM

DamnYankees: Can anyone find a picture of this character? I'm interested.

members.shaw.ca

/obscure.

Donald_McRonald

2010-09-02 12:37:31 PM

Sybarite: DamnYankees: Can anyone find a picture of this character? I'm interested.

www.theepochtimes.com

Three pancakes floating over a top hat.

AntiNorm

2010-09-02 12:44:32 PM

How do you type "squiggle squiggle line line line" anyway?

Cagey B

2010-09-02 01:06:18 PM

Weaver95: /obscure.

The Cthulhu Mythos is never obscure anywhere.

FloydA

2010-09-02 01:44:51 PM

DamnYankees: Can anyone find a picture of this character? I'm interested.

HTH

tricycleracer

2010-09-02 02:29:15 PM

Microsoft Word includes the characters 'S' 'h' 'a' and 'n'.

Ponzholio

2010-09-02 02:29:28 PM

SHAN WOW!

busy chillin'

2010-09-02 02:29:30 PM

hitchin' bed line, subby!

/shake a tower
//shake a tit

sushovande

2010-09-02 02:30:43 PM

Kudos, Subby.
+1

sboyle1020

2010-09-02 02:31:38 PM

Sources says the new names will be determined by throwing pots and pans down the stairs...

/ugh

Speaker2Animals

2010-09-02 02:32:27 PM

Oh, subby......

wraithmare

2010-09-02 02:34:27 PM

Yes, that's a +1 for subby.

Hot drinks? Try the shanty down the road.

Slartibartfaster

2010-09-02 02:35:57 PM

I do not normally golf clap

But Subby .... that deserves a golf clap

This text is now purple

2010-09-02 02:38:30 PM

Sybarite: DamnYankees: Can anyone find a picture of this character? I'm interested.

It's an ass hat?

Magorn

2010-09-02 02:38:50 PM

AntiNorm: How do you type "squiggle squiggle line line line" anyway?

Apparently, Chinese mobile phones and WP prgrams use standard Qwerty Keyboards and the way you type Chinese characters with them is by typing the first few letters of the sound that particular word makes (which is still problematic because Chinese has so many homophones) and then chosing from a menu of Chinese characters that comes up. Since texting is so popularin CHina this is beginning to effectively "alphabetize" the language, to the dismay of some purists who hope that maybe Tablets and touch screens can spark a resurgance in calligraphy

vudukungfu

2010-09-02 02:39:03 PM

HOTY

Lord Dimwit

2010-09-02 02:39:14 PM

I don't speak, much less read, any of the languages that use writing systems in any way derived from Chinese writing, but it really does make me wonder sometimes.

Japan has to limit the number of characters names can be written in, to avoid an explosion of rare characters being used in names. And in Japanese (I don't know about Chinese), a given character can be pronounced many different ways, leading to a real problem of not knowing how to pronounce someone's name. Japan has sort-of addressed this issue with Rubi script, which are little phonetic characters next to the main character to give hints as to pronunciation...

I remember reading an essay about a guy who was getting his doctorate in Mandarin. He said that in no other language on Earth could you have studied a language for six years and not be able to read a novel without a dictionary. A big problem is that if you've never seen a given character before, there's nothing you can really do to determine how it is pronounced, and very little you can do to guess its meaning. He contrasts this with any of the alphabetically-written languages, where you can at least guess the pronunciation, if not the meaning of previously unseen words.

So, anybody out there learn to read Chinese as an adult? Is it as hard as this guy seems to make it sound?

BadKarma86

2010-09-02 02:39:30 PM

I wouldn't normally do this, but I want to see if anyone gets it.

free-pianosheetmusic.com

lukelightning

2010-09-02 02:39:39 PM

Next up, people named Biang.

simplifierlab.com

jedzz

2010-09-02 02:40:07 PM

ChadM89

2010-09-02 02:40:36 PM

I might NOT say that.

-1, subby.

Boooo!

Huck Chaser

2010-09-02 02:42:20 PM

AntiNorm: How do you type "squiggle squiggle line line line" anyway?

First thing I thought of...

www.wearysloth.com

HailRobonia

2010-09-02 02:42:47 PM

DamnYankees: Can anyone find a picture of this character? I'm interested.

The problem is that computers evidently can't handle the character. Perhaps if I translate the name into Betacrypt-3....

Director_Mr

2010-09-02 02:44:27 PM

ChadM89: I might NOT say that.

-1, subby.

Boooo!

If the strongest objection to subby's submission is purely speculative in nature (you MIGHT not), he doesn't deserve to get a -1. You would need to DEFINITELY NOT SAY THAT to warrant a -1. Its in Fark's bylaws somewhere.

bgddy24601

2010-09-02 02:46:16 PM

BadKarma86: I wouldn't normally do this, but I want to see if anyone gets it.

I'll answer your photo with a photo or two...
www.autoscape.com

lukelightning

2010-09-02 02:48:10 PM

The name might be 单 which is usually "dan", which means "single", but pronounced "shan" when it's used as a surname (which is rare). So, when using the Pinyin romanization system to input it, "shan" won't bring it up.

Then again, it sounds like it could be a character that doesn't have a standardized electronic version.

Magorn

2010-09-02 02:48:15 PM

Lord Dimwit: I don't speak, much less read, any of the languages that use writing systems in any way derived from Chinese writing, but it really does make me wonder sometimes.

Japan has to limit the number of characters names can be written in, to avoid an explosion of rare characters being used in names. And in Japanese (I don't know about Chinese), a given character can be pronounced many different ways, leading to a real problem of not knowing how to pronounce someone's name. Japan has sort-of addressed this issue with Rubi script, which are little phonetic characters next to the main character to give hints as to pronunciation...

I remember reading an essay about a guy who was getting his doctorate in Mandarin. He said that in no other language on Earth could you have studied a language for six years and not be able to read a novel without a dictionary. A big problem is that if you've never seen a given character before, there's nothing you can really do to determine how it is pronounced, and very little you can do to guess its meaning. He contrasts this with any of the alphabetically-written languages, where you can at least guess the pronunciation, if not the meaning of previously unseen words.

So, anybody out there learn to read Chinese as an adult? Is it as hard as this guy seems to make it sound?

Heard a segemnt on NPR the other day about a lady (Who had a PHD in Linguistics and spoke like 9 languages) talking about how insanely hard she found speaking the language even after living there for years. Apparently there are only something like 300 basic syllables, many of them very short, for the whole langauge, which leads to words having hundreds of homonyms sometimes, and while the tonal system helps distinguish them somewhat, it can still be dammned difficult to pick out unfamiliar nouns

Rezurok

2010-09-02 02:51:29 PM

Amazing how they have no way of representing "Shan" on a computer, and yet I know from the article that the name that can't be represented on a computer is Shan. If only somebody could come up with a way to write Shan using readily available characters, they wouldn't have this predicament...

/Shan
//ShanShan

trappedspirit

2010-09-02 02:51:42 PM

All names are made up anyways. Your name sounds made up.

Cryptic Farker

2010-09-02 02:52:36 PM

sboyle1020: Sources says the new names will be determined by throwing ~~pots~~ forks and ~~pans~~ spoons down the stairs...

/ugh

FTFU

Kazan

2010-09-02 02:52:54 PM

how about getting rid of that monstrosity called "pictographic language" and convert to an alphabet.

elev8meL8r

2010-09-02 02:54:01 PM

You know who ELSE made people change their names for the purpose of convenient data entry?

www.destination360.com

(what, did you think I was going to say the other guy?)

lukelightning

2010-09-02 02:54:28 PM

Lord Dimwit: So, anybody out there learn to read Chinese as an adult? Is it as hard as this guy seems to make it sound?

Yep, it's tough. The point about not knowing pronunciation is important; I read the Harry Potter series in Chinese and spent a lot of time with the dictionary... even when I knew what an unfamiliar word was by context (e.g. Harry puts on his 斗篷 and turns invisible... ah hah, 斗篷 means cloak!), I would still have to look up how to say it.

Plus it's filled with made-up fantasy words that don't even make sense in English. But at least it wasn't another tragic/depressing Cultural Revolution autobiography.

Mishno

2010-09-02 02:55:38 PM

It's spelled "Shan" but it's pronounced "Throat-Warbler Mangrove".

Oznog

2010-09-02 02:57:01 PM

Xian of the Dead?

Ashelth

2010-09-02 02:57:21 PM

Lord Dimwit: I don't speak, much less read, any of the languages that use writing systems in any way derived from Chinese writing, but it really does make me wonder sometimes.

Japan has to limit the number of characters names can be written in, to avoid an explosion of rare characters being used in names. And in Japanese (I don't know about Chinese), a given character can be pronounced many different ways, leading to a real problem of not knowing how to pronounce someone's name. Japan has sort-of addressed this issue with Rubi script, which are little phonetic characters next to the main character to give hints as to pronunciation...

I remember reading an essay about a guy who was getting his doctorate in Mandarin. He said that in no other language on Earth could you have studied a language for six years and not be able to read a novel without a dictionary. A big problem is that if you've never seen a given character before, there's nothing you can really do to determine how it is pronounced, and very little you can do to guess its meaning. He contrasts this with any of the alphabetically-written languages, where you can at least guess the pronunciation, if not the meaning of previously unseen words.

So, anybody out there learn to read Chinese as an adult? Is it as hard as this guy seems to make it sound?

The complex characters (used less frequently) are usually made up of subparts which can give clues as to their meaning.

The traditional example of this is 'trouble' which is two characters for 'female' under a 'roof'. I vaguely remember the character (in chinese or japanese) for rape is 3 women under a roof... Which I suppose says a lot.

But long story short, Japanese is a royal pain in the ass.

deeproy

2010-09-02 02:58:16 PM

krelborne: *golf clap*

Second. Best headline I've seen all week.

oren0

2010-09-02 02:59:54 PM

lukelightning: Yep, it's tough. The point about not knowing pronunciation is important; I read the Harry Potter series in Chinese and spent a lot of time with the dictionary... even when I knew what an unfamiliar word was by context (e.g. Harry puts on his 斗篷 and turns invisible... ah hah, 斗篷 means cloak!), I would still have to look up how to say it.

Related question: how does a Chinese dictionary work in terms of ordering, if you don't know the name of the symbol? I remember the Beijing Olympics coverage saying something about ordering countries by the number of strokes in their Chinese names, are dictionaries the same thing?

Shazam999

2010-09-02 02:59:57 PM

Lord Dimwit: I don't speak, much less read, any of the languages that use writing systems in any way derived from Chinese writing, but it really does make me wonder sometimes.

Japan has to limit the number of characters names can be written in, to avoid an explosion of rare characters being used in names. And in Japanese (I don't know about Chinese), a given character can be pronounced many different ways, leading to a real problem of not knowing how to pronounce someone's name. Japan has sort-of addressed this issue with Rubi script, which are little phonetic characters next to the main character to give hints as to pronunciation...

I remember reading an essay about a guy who was getting his doctorate in Mandarin. He said that in no other language on Earth could you have studied a language for six years and not be able to read a novel without a dictionary. A big problem is that if you've never seen a given character before, there's nothing you can really do to determine how it is pronounced, and very little you can do to guess its meaning. He contrasts this with any of the alphabetically-written languages, where you can at least guess the pronunciation, if not the meaning of previously unseen words.

So, anybody out there learn to read Chinese as an adult? Is it as hard as this guy seems to make it sound?

Yes. Even my Chinese friends complain about how farking difficult and totally god damned arbitrary their written system is.

lukelightning

2010-09-02 03:00:09 PM

Here's an "interesting" piece of information: China has a long history of mandated name changes. When someone became Emperor, it was taboo to use the Emperor's name, so people had to change their names.

lukelightning

2010-09-02 03:01:08 PM

Oh, and the word for fan in Chinese is pronounced "shan".

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