If you can pull the pin on a grenade with your teeth, it's only because you have titanium teeth implants welded to your titanium jaw. Also, grenades are no fun if the friggin' safety lever stays on.

Other than that, that's about the only way ping pong would be worth watching. And badminton would be more entertaining if they used a live 60mm mortar round instead of a shuttlecock.

PacManDreaming: If you can pull the pin on a grenade with your teeth, it's only because you have titanium teeth implants welded to your titanium jaw. Also, grenades are no fun if the friggin' safety lever stays on.


You make it sound as though this never happened. As though it were all just make-believe...

PacManDreaming: the friggin' safety lever stays on.

That really ruined the entire video for me.

Infamous Dr. X: Also, the contestants were wearing clothes.

That would have saved the video for me.

PacManDreaming: If you can pull the pin on a grenade with your teeth, it's only because you have titanium teeth implants welded to your titanium jaw. Also, grenades are no fun if the friggin' safety lever stays on.

Other than that, that's about the only way ping pong would be worth watching. And badminton would be more entertaining if they used a live 60mm mortar round instead of a shuttlecock.

Yes, but "shuttlecock" is more fun to say.

Am I the only one who saw this as a metaphor for the whole Korean situation?? The North and South playing a game of political and military ping-pong that could easily end up in the annihilation of one side (or both) while the rest of the world mainly just watches and roots for 'their side' (or mayhem in general)?

While looking at the messages before mine something struck me. And after I threw the wad of paper back at my co-worker I had the following thought: this thread is a shining example of why people like Rogert Ebert will probably never consider video games art.

'Real artists' aren't as concerned with technical details as most of the posts in this thread seem to be, and they can't understand why they would matter anywhere as much as the message itself.

Furthermore, those who do consider the little technical details to be important are obviously not sophisticated enough to understand the true meaning of art, otherwise they wouldn't be so worried about such unimportant minutiae.

So in short, video games, which will always have some amount of emphasis on mechanics and how-to, are inherently inferior to 'true art' which transcends the mechanics and how-to. Or so say the self-appointed arbiters of art.

Man, that's way too much thinking for as little caffiene as I've had today. I think I sprained something.

/get me a Red Bull IV, STAT!

BStorm: 'Real artists' aren't as concerned with technical details as most of the posts in this thread seem to be, and they can't understand why they would matter anywhere as much as the message itself.

"Real artists" should be concerned with the technical details, because inattention to detail will absolutely kill their ability to deliver the message that you say is so important to them.

In all honesty, I never noticed that the two Asian girls were in fact Korean, never identified the North Korea/South Korea metaphor, and never got the overall message. Because the first thing I noticed was the damned lever stuck in the grenade, and that focused my attention in a direction that the artist did not want it to go. Attention to detail on the artist's part would have prevented that.

As a side note, how long would it have taken to do some basic research on how a grenade works? Fifteen minutes? Is the time of a "real artist" so valuable that this time couldn't be spent in this way?

Furthermore, those who do consider the little technical details to be important are obviously not sophisticated enough to understand the true meaning of art, otherwise they wouldn't be so worried about such unimportant minutiae.

Statements like this are why many people consider "artists" to be arrogant little pricks.

Hmm.. looks like I may have done too good a job of understating my opinion, but I guess that's my fault. Anyway..

Cybernetic: "Real artists" should be concerned with the technical details, because inattention to detail will absolutely kill their ability to deliver the message that you say is so important to them.

I tend to agree. Unfortunately that's doesn't seem to be a popular sentiment amongst many of the most vocal critics out there.. from what I've read/seen/heard, it seems the belief is that 'The Message' should override any and all other considerations, and anyone who is distracted by those details is clearly not competent to determine what makes art, ART.

Of course this completely ignores the hypocrisy involved when these self-same critics decide to ignore the message behind something and instead focus on the perceived failure of some mechanical detail. In their view, the creator was obviously not a TRUE artist, or else there would be no such flaw in the creation.

In short, most of the 'art' that gets elevated publicly seems pretty arbitrary to me.

"Furthermore, those who do consider the little technical details to be important are obviously not sophisticated enough to understand the true meaning of art, otherwise they wouldn't be so worried about such unimportant minutiae."

Statements like this are why many people consider "artists" to be arrogant little pricks.

Well, for my part I consider arrogant pricks to be arrogant pricks. Whether they're an artist or not typically has little to do with their personality and vice-versa. The problem is those types of a-holes who would have acted like that regardless.. they just happened to get famous, which gave them a chance to spread their bad attitude and behavior to a wider audience than usual.

Infamous Dr. X: I can think of one Dead Italian Male who would like a word with you:

Though I meant my comment in sarcastic jest, please convey my most heartfelt apologies to Segnori Da Vinci if he took them personally.. I wouldn't want to upset him as he knows far too much about human anatomy, obviously to make him a better killer.

Also, the symbolism was pretty obvious, I thought. Doesn't make critiques regarding the inaccuracy of the grenade or the fact that the girls were wearing clothes any less meaningful, Mr. Snooty McArtsyGuy.

Agreed. I had a hard time not laughing at first, and when I called my ex-Ranger co-worker over to take a look, all he did was shake his head and mutter "Cheap bastards couldn't even spring for a GOOD prop grenade?"

I also would like to place my vote firmly in the 'no clothing on the players' column, should that option become available.

Unless they're underage, in which case I will NOT have a seat over there, thank you very much Mr. Hansen.

BStorm: Of course this completely ignores the hypocrisy involved when these self-same critics decide to ignore the message behind something and instead focus on the perceived failure of some mechanical detail. In their view, the creator was obviously not a TRUE artist, or else there would be no such flaw in the creation.

Nope. It's like trying to talk to someone when they have something stuck in their teeth or toilet paper stuck to their shoe. The message in what they're saying is lost in a glaring distraction.

Or...it's like having some "artist" decide to make a Batman movie, but the actor playing Batman is wearing a psychedelic tutu and fighting against The Incredible Hulk. Doesn't matter how good the movie actually is, all anyone is gonna notice is the mistakes.

I think the real success here is that they managed to make me watch an entire music video for a rather mediocre song.

technical details aside, I appreciated the way they, um... moved.

PacManDreaming: BStorm: Of course this completely ignores the hypocrisy involved when these self-same critics decide to ignore the message behind something and instead focus on the perceived failure of some mechanical detail. In their view, the creator was obviously not a TRUE artist, or else there would be no such flaw in the creation.

Nope. It's like trying to talk to someone when they have something stuck in their teeth or toilet paper stuck to their shoe. The message in what they're saying is lost in a glaring distraction.

Or...it's like having some "artist" decide to make a Batman movie, but the actor playing Batman is wearing a psychedelic tutu and fighting against The Incredible Hulk. Doesn't matter how good the movie actually is, all anyone is gonna notice is the mistakes.

Unfortunately those examples are far more obvious flaws in the process than the ones I've seen get something panned as 'not ART'. I've seen critics go on ad nauseum about how the brush strokes in a painting are not in harmony with the color of the paint or the texture of a statue was a bit 'too earthy'.. comments that seemed to be made solely because they couldn't find anything more substantial to criticise.

Honestly, anyone who considers themselves to be a better judge of art than someone else is probably delusional anyway, which is why I try to avoid making judgements and stick with clearly personal opinions.

Or course I fail at that alot, anyway.

BStorm: Unfortunately those examples are far more obvious flaws in the process than the ones I've seen get something panned as 'not ART'. I've seen critics go on ad nauseum about how the brush strokes in a painting are not in harmony with the color of the paint or the texture of a statue was a bit 'too earthy'.. comments that seemed to be made solely because they couldn't find anything more substantial to criticise.

Now I think I see where you were coming from when you made your original comment. It did not occur to me that someone might see the lever left in the grenade as a minor detail, because to me it stuck out as a major mistake--much more substantial and obvious than something like the brush strokes in a painting. But that's purely subjective on my part and probably based on the fact that I know more about hand grenades than I do about art.

Cybernetic: BStorm: Unfortunately those examples are far more obvious flaws in the process than the ones I've seen get something panned as 'not ART'. I've seen critics go on ad nauseum about how the brush strokes in a painting are not in harmony with the color of the paint or the texture of a statue was a bit 'too earthy'.. comments that seemed to be made solely because they couldn't find anything more substantial to criticise.

Now I think I see where you were coming from when you made your original comment. It did not occur to me that someone might see the lever left in the grenade as a minor detail, because to me it stuck out as a major mistake--much more substantial and obvious than something like the brush strokes in a painting. But that's purely subjective on my part and probably based on the fact that I know more about hand grenades than I do about art.

No, you're right, it's a pretty significant flaw as far as the reality of how a hand grenade typically works is concerned, and I had a hard time not giggling about it at first. It took a bit for 'suspension of disbelief' to take over but once it did I could pay better attention to everything else and enjoyed the rest of the video.

Must be all the practice ignoring the glaring flaws in my current employment situation. Hooray progress. :P

Cybernetic: Now I think I see where you were coming from when you made your original comment. It did not occur to me that someone might see the lever left in the grenade as a minor detail, because to me it stuck out as a major mistake--much more substantial and obvious than something like the brush strokes in a painting. But that's purely subjective on my part and probably based on the fact that I know more about hand grenades than I do about art.

Ditto.

BStorm: Honestly, anyone who considers themselves to be a better judge of art than someone else is probably delusional anyway, which is why I try to avoid making judgements and stick with clearly personal opinions.

Yeah, I know exactly what you're saying.

FWIW, the video is also posted on YouTube (link pops); it includes credits for the video, and the usual treasure trove of moronic YouTube comments.