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(Yahoo)   Six signs that you've made it to the middle class, does not include living in the basement of the home your mother owns   (finance.yahoo.com) divider line 111
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5371 clicks; posted to Business » on 28 Aug 2010 at 8:05 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-08-28 04:55:42 PM  
Check, check, check, check, check, check....I'm dull.
 
2010-08-28 05:37:18 PM  
5 out of 6, the kids can pay their own way through college.
 
2010-08-28 07:39:28 PM  
Errk: 5 out of 6, the kids can pay their own way through college.

THIS. Once kids are 18, they can pay their own damned way.
 
amo [TotalFark]
2010-08-28 07:42:00 PM  
dustman81: Errk: 5 out of 6, the kids can pay their own way through college.

THIS. Once kids are 18, they can pay their own damned way.


Thirded. If they want it, they'll find a way.
 
2010-08-28 07:44:37 PM  
I consider myself middle class but only have 3/4. I don't own a home because when I moved to Vegas they were terribly overpriced, it made more sense to rent. Glad I did, too. Now I'm waiting for the last kid to leave before we buy a small townhome or condo.

Kids can pay their own way through school - it's scholarships or work as you go, just like me.
 
2010-08-28 07:54:14 PM  
amo: dustman81: Errk: 5 out of 6, the kids can pay their own way through college.

THIS. Once kids are 18, they can pay their own damned way.

Thirded. If they want it, they'll find a way.


I was thinking about this today - it's total bullshiat that an 18 year old adult's parent's income could prevent him from getting financial aid, because not every 18 year old's parents are going to be willing to pay a kid's way through college, for all sorts of reasons.
 
2010-08-28 08:26:10 PM  
Home Ownership is first on the list. LOL.

Just another propaganda item perpetuated by the industry to convince people they are poor scum unless they own (owe).
 
2010-08-28 08:40:37 PM  
Every child had a pretty good shot
To get at least as far as their old man got
But something happened on the way to that place
They threw an American flag in our face

Amazing how a song more than 30 years old is still relevant.
 
2010-08-28 08:43:52 PM  
aimtastic: amo: dustman81: Errk: 5 out of 6, the kids can pay their own way through college.

THIS. Once kids are 18, they can pay their own damned way.

Thirded. If they want it, they'll find a way.

I was thinking about this today - it's total bullshiat that an 18 year old adult's parent's income could prevent him from getting financial aid, because not every 18 year old's parents are going to be willing to pay a kid's way through college, for all sorts of reasons.


I grew up dirt poor but once I got to college I was far better off than a lot people who had parents with money. I got a ton of financial aid and they had to put it all on loans. I could pick up a construction job for the summer, party my ass off, and pay off my yearly tuition bill.
 
2010-08-28 08:45:07 PM  
wolvernova: Home Ownership is first on the list. LOL.

Just another propaganda item perpetuated by the industry to convince people they are poor scum unless they own (owe).


So you still live in your parents basement rent free?
 
2010-08-28 08:50:39 PM  
Friction Tape: So you still live in your parents basement rent free?

I rent an entire house for half of what my landlord pays per month for his mortgage.

Yay home ownership!!!!

/dumbasses
 
2010-08-28 08:53:53 PM  
So you'd rather pay someone else for something you'll never own, even if it's 30yrs down the line. Yeah, we're the dumbasses....you keep paying your landlord.
 
2010-08-28 09:02:02 PM  
FTFA:

Don't underestimate the role of hard work and luck. Sometimes being in the right place at the right time or taking one particular course of action over another can make all the difference. So keep watching for opportunities and make the most of them when you find them. As motion-picture mogul Samuel Goldwyn said, "The harder I work, the luckier I get."

According to Wikipedia, Goldwyn didn't really work at all. Instead, he was lucky enough to be an investor of a film company, then spun off onto Paramount, then let the artistic works of several more people with more talent sell him films which he then pocketed most of the money for. So, in an article about how you could become middle class (a dubious term that seems to change regionally), we should follow the example of a man who never created anything but distributed it and created the studio system today that has been pushing smaller people out of the movie business to this very day.

Ironically, through changing the distribution model so only well-funded studio movies could play in theaters while others have to go to lesser-known venues.

America: Work Hard, so the Rich don't have to.
 
2010-08-28 09:03:06 PM  
Yes to all of 'em, but still don't think we count as middle class.
 
2010-08-28 09:05:34 PM  
Friction Tape: So you'd rather pay someone else for something you'll never own, even if it's 30yrs down the line. Yeah, we're the dumbasses....you keep paying your landlord.

Retard, I've owned before and will buy again. Still sniffing the bullshiat your realtor threw at you when you bought? I love new homeowners. You can practically smell the Realtard farts on their breath. So farking clueless, so exhausted from patting themselves on the back.
 
2010-08-28 09:11:35 PM  
There never was an American middle class that wasn't over their heads in debt, anyway. If you didn't owe money on your home loan, car loan, tuition loan, or credit cards, you were not middle class...you were upper class.

The near collapse of the credit industry has exposed the mighty American middle class for what they always were: indentured servants. The banks don't want them to know this. Heaven forbid we eschew the merits of instant gratification to the tune of 28.9% APR or 360 easy monthly payments more than half of which are pure interest.
 
2010-08-28 09:17:55 PM  
wolvernova: Friction Tape: So you'd rather pay someone else for something you'll never own, even if it's 30yrs down the line. Yeah, we're the dumbasses....you keep paying your landlord.

Retard, I've owned before and will buy again. Still sniffing the bullshiat your realtor threw at you when you bought? I love new homeowners. You can practically smell the Realtard farts on their breath. So farking clueless, so exhausted from patting themselves on the back.


Me thinks that reply earns a well deserved

farm1.static.flickr.com
 
2010-08-28 09:19:13 PM  
wolvernova: Friction Tape: So you'd rather pay someone else for something you'll never own, even if it's 30yrs down the line. Yeah, we're the dumbasses....you keep paying your landlord.

Retard, I've owned before and will buy again. Still sniffing the bullshiat your realtor threw at you when you bought? I love new homeowners. You can practically smell the Realtard farts on their breath. So farking clueless, so exhausted from patting themselves on the back.


I've owned for many years dickbag and am 12 years ahead of schedule. Suck it.
 
2010-08-28 09:20:43 PM  
wolvernova: Friction Tape: So you still live in your parents basement rent free?

I rent an entire house for half of what my landlord pays per month for his mortgage.

Yay home ownership!!!!

/dumbasses


In 30 years (or less), my payment will be zero. Until it is paid off, the payment amount is locked in.

Meanwhile, your landlord will raise your rent every year, eventually paying off the mortgage and pocketing the rent money.
 
2010-08-28 09:24:21 PM  
Friction Tape: wolvernova: Friction Tape: So you'd rather pay someone else for something you'll never own, even if it's 30yrs down the line. Yeah, we're the dumbasses....you keep paying your landlord.

Retard, I've owned before and will buy again. Still sniffing the bullshiat your realtor threw at you when you bought? I love new homeowners. You can practically smell the Realtard farts on their breath. So farking clueless, so exhausted from patting themselves on the back.

I've owned for many years dickbag and am 12 years ahead of schedule. Suck it.


I've only owned for 2 years but I'm 28 years ahead of schedule.
 
2010-08-28 09:25:47 PM  
H31N0US: Friction Tape: wolvernova: Friction Tape: So you'd rather pay someone else for something you'll never own, even if it's 30yrs down the line. Yeah, we're the dumbasses....you keep paying your landlord.

Retard, I've owned before and will buy again. Still sniffing the bullshiat your realtor threw at you when you bought? I love new homeowners. You can practically smell the Realtard farts on their breath. So farking clueless, so exhausted from patting themselves on the back.

I've owned for many years dickbag and am 12 years ahead of schedule. Suck it.

I've only owned for 2 years but I'm 28 years ahead of schedule.


Then you have a bigger e-peen than I. Well played sir, well played.
 
2010-08-28 09:27:34 PM  
Friction Tape: I've owned for many years dickbag and am 12 years ahead of schedule. Suck it.

I sold before the market collapsed and have avoided the "owning homes = brilliant" bullshiat since. Congrats for being ahead of schedule, but it doesn't make up for sucking the NAR cock.

dustman81: In 30 years (or less), my payment will be zero. Until it is paid off, the payment amount is locked in.

Maybe you haven't heard about property taxes.

dustman81: Meanwhile, your landlord will raise your rent every year, eventually paying off the mortgage and pocketing the rent money.

a) my landlord hasn't raised rent in the 3 years I've been here
b) he can pocket that less-than-50% of the mortgage my rent is covering. Anybody with a 5th grade equivalent math competence or above knows who is winning in that arrangement.

Man, there are so many idiots that defer to NAR when it comes to owning or renting. Wake up, dipshiats.
 
2010-08-28 09:34:16 PM  
Friction Tape: H31N0US: Friction Tape: wolvernova: Friction Tape: So you'd rather pay someone else for something you'll never own, even if it's 30yrs down the line. Yeah, we're the dumbasses....you keep paying your landlord.

Retard, I've owned before and will buy again. Still sniffing the bullshiat your realtor threw at you when you bought? I love new homeowners. You can practically smell the Realtard farts on their breath. So farking clueless, so exhausted from patting themselves on the back.

I've owned for many years dickbag and am 12 years ahead of schedule. Suck it.

I've only owned for 2 years but I'm 28 years ahead of schedule.

Then you have a bigger e-peen than I. Well played sir, well played.


Just messing around. I'm not that far ahead. But seriously, fark the banks.

And yeah, buying a house then renting it out for half your burn rate seems like a bad idea. Better off renting and saving the other half up for a down payment on a reasonably priced home.
 
2010-08-28 09:39:50 PM  
H31N0US: And yeah, buying a house then renting it out for half your burn rate seems like a bad idea. Better off renting and saving the other half up for a down payment on a reasonably priced home.

That's what I'm doing. Or as some morons would say, I'm either paying my landlord's mortgage or living in my parents' basement. God knows the value of the house I'm renting has declined over a hundred grand since I've moved in. Not feeling too stupid, despite what the "own or be a piece of shiat" crowd say.
 
kab
2010-08-28 09:40:08 PM  
In order:

Nope.
Yep.
No kids.
Unlikely.
Yep.
Last few have been stay at home, so no.


Guess I'm not quite there yet.
 
kab
2010-08-28 09:41:17 PM  
Friction Tape: So you'd rather pay someone else for something you'll never own, even if it's 30yrs down the line.

Someone thinks they actually own their home, even after the mortgage is paid off?

Cute.
 
2010-08-28 09:44:11 PM  
Did the math once on renting vs owning.

I made the following assumptions:
1. You could rent for 85% of what you spent on the mortgage/property taxes/insurance.
2. You spent 2% of the home value each year on maintenance. 2% is the standard number I've been told to budget for if yo own an older home.
3. You invested that 15% difference + 2% and earned 7% per year.
4. The home increased in value 2% per year for 30 years.

At the end of 30 years, you'd end up with significantly more money than the house would be worth.

/Didn't take into account rising rents. Math too hard.
 
2010-08-28 09:44:12 PM  
wolvernova: Friction Tape: So you still live in your parents basement rent free?

I rent an entire house for half of what my landlord pays per month for his mortgage.

Yay home ownership!!!!

/dumbasses


Pot. Meet kettle.
 
2010-08-28 09:48:13 PM  
Really? I can do it with one distinction:

-- Wondering whether you qualify as middle class: then yes, yes you are.

Seriously, if you have the free time and energy to ponder something like this, you're either middle class or one of those homeless philosopher guys like Jesus.
 
2010-08-28 09:53:37 PM  
Jim_Callahan: Really? I can do it with one distinction:

-- Wondering whether you qualify as middle class: then yes, yes you are.

Seriously, if you have the free time and energy to ponder something like this, you're either middle class or one of those homeless philosopher guys like Jesus.


Ummmm.....I can't imagine ANYONE in any situation who wouldn't have time to ponder. Even if you were dirt poor and waiting in line at a homeless shelter, you'd have time to spare.

Anyway, I think your definition would be meaningless. 99% of Americans would be middle class.

From actual studies..."Even among people with incomes under $25,000 a year, 41 percent describe themselves as middle class. So do 38 percent of those with household incomes over $100,000."
 
2010-08-28 09:59:49 PM  
thisispete
Every child had a pretty good shot
To get at least as far as their old man got
....

Amazing how a song more than 30 years old is still relevant.


Allentown came out in 1982, close to 30 years but not over yet.
It was also a fine example of music that was inspired by/ influenced by the last big recession
 
2010-08-28 10:01:31 PM  
Fark_Guy_Rob: From actual studies..."Even among people with incomes under $25,000 a year, 41 percent describe themselves as middle class. So do 38 percent of those with household incomes over $100,000."

Doesn't it depend on where you're from too? $100,000 a year is different in San Francisco than in, say, rural Indiana.

I have no idea how far $100,000 goes in San Fran but I'm guessing the person making that in Indiana would have more buying power.
 
2010-08-28 10:01:59 PM  
Fark_Guy_Rob: Pot. Meet kettle.

Looking for an excuse to use that phrase, or care to emphasize your point?
 
2010-08-28 10:03:34 PM  
Many rich people have been broke at least once.
 
2010-08-28 10:09:00 PM  
1 of 6. I'm 28... I obviously suck so hard.
 
2010-08-28 10:21:14 PM  
wolvernova: H31N0US: And yeah, buying a house then renting it out for half your burn rate seems like a bad idea. Better off renting and saving the other half up for a down payment on a reasonably priced home.

That's what I'm doing. Or as some morons would say, I'm either paying my landlord's mortgage or living in my parents' basement. God knows the value of the house I'm renting has declined over a hundred grand since I've moved in. Not feeling too stupid, despite what the "own or be a piece of shiat" crowd say.


You should stop shiatting in the living room carpet.
 
2010-08-28 10:21:17 PM  
I'm 25, bought one home on an FHA loan, it burned up thanks to a roommate's cigarette. I've got insurance though so life will be okay and I may even nab a conventional loan on the next place.

Cool story bro?

I post because there are a number of internet hardasses commenting with no real meaning behind it. No wait, I'm just too "dumb" to see their hidden message.

/glares at kab
//Posting a Fark meme does not make you wise. Some do come here for others' insights
 
2010-08-28 10:21:38 PM  
wolvernova: dustman81: Meanwhile, your landlord will raise your rent every year, eventually paying off the mortgage and pocketing the rent money.

a) my landlord hasn't raised rent in the 3 years I've been here
b) he can pocket that less-than-50% of the mortgage my rent is covering. Anybody with a 5th grade equivalent math competence or above knows who is winning in that arrangement.

Man, there are so many idiots that defer to NAR when it comes to owning or renting. Wake up, dipshiats.


Just because he hasn't raised the rent in 3 years is no guarantee that he won't do so next year. Or he could just say "I'm not renewing the lease. Get out."
 
2010-08-28 10:26:55 PM  
If this is middle class, I don't want to be middle class anymore.
 
2010-08-28 10:28:36 PM  
Check on all six.

On home ownership - just like any other tangible item, there are good times to own real property and bad times to own real property when viewed strictly along a dollar perspective. IMHO, there is more to owning your home than just viewing it as an investment. It is YOURS!!! No landlord to tell you what you can/can't do. You want to do laundry at 3 AM - go for it. Run that table saw to fix up the basement? Have at it, chief. Paint the kitchen fuchsia? It's yours, so go for it. It's a big allotment of freedom afforded to those who want the challenge of home ownership. Lots of responsibility, but lots of privileges to those up to the challenge.

/four more payments and mortgage is done
//no fuchsia paint in the house
///but could if I wanted to
 
2010-08-28 10:35:09 PM  
achtungpv: /Didn't take into account rising rents. Math too hard.

It's the rising rents (and general assumption that there will be baseline monetary inflation, which you lock against by buying) that make all the difference.

Here's one of the more comprehensive buy-v-rent calculators going. Garbage in, garbage out mind you.
 
2010-08-28 10:36:11 PM  
atomic-age: You should stop shiatting in the living room carpet.

Pergo. All my shiatting hasn't done anything to ruin it. Funny though, I almost included a "no fault of my own" caveat in my post.

dustman81: Just because he hasn't raised the rent in 3 years is no guarantee that he won't do so next year. Or he could just say "I'm not renewing the lease. Get out."

Either way I couldn't give two shiats. I'll find another cheap ass rental. Or more realistically, I'll buy. I've been month-to-month for over 2 years now. Landlord loves me. All the "renting is unstable" b.s. you hear from NAR is pretty laughable.

SkittleBrau: IMHO, there is more to owning your home than just viewing it as an investment. It is YOURS the BANK'S!!!

FTFY, mortgage slave.

SkittleBrau: No landlord to tell you what you can/can't do. You want to do laundry at 3 AM - go for it.

My landlord doesn't tell me to do shiat. If the grass is too long, I call him. If the roof leaks, his ass fixes it (and oh boy, it most certainly has).

He's my little biatch. I'm just the rare tenant that can pay rent on time and know when to alert him about things that can hurt his house or make him liable, like trees encroaching on powerlines.

But yeah, pretend that a 30 year loan makes you free. It's cute how proud home owners are before they realize how the game works.
 
2010-08-28 10:36:40 PM  
I figure it this way:

Poor - Can't meet basic needs.
Working Class - Living hand to mouth.
Middle Class - Has comfortable savings. Not stressed by bills.
Rich - $3M
Significant Wealth - $40M
 
2010-08-28 10:37:09 PM  
Friction Tape: So you'd rather pay someone else for something you'll never own, even if it's 30yrs down the line. Yeah, we're the dumbasses....you keep paying your landlord.

And you keep paying home insurance, property taxes, upkeep, higher utility bills than an apartment and if your employer transfers you, have fun paying two mortgages while you're selling your old house.
 
2010-08-28 10:38:20 PM  
dustman81: wolvernova: dustman81: Meanwhile, your landlord will raise your rent every year, eventually paying off the mortgage and pocketing the rent money.

a) my landlord hasn't raised rent in the 3 years I've been here
b) he can pocket that less-than-50% of the mortgage my rent is covering. Anybody with a 5th grade equivalent math competence or above knows who is winning in that arrangement.

Man, there are so many idiots that defer to NAR when it comes to owning or renting. Wake up, dipshiats.

Just because he hasn't raised the rent in 3 years is no guarantee that he won't do so next year. Or he could just say "I'm not renewing the lease. Get out."


That, and wolvernova seems to be operating under the assumption that there are an unlimited number of underwater landlords in this country willing to take a hit year after year by renting properties for less than half of their mortgage payments.

There aren't, because a.) most places were not nearly as insane as DC (where he lives) / LA / Vegas during the housing bubble, and b.) most of those financial wizards eventually get foreclosed on and their tenants are told to GTFO and/or pay a lot more rent by their new bank-landlords.

It works for him, but he's in fairly uncommon situation, so it's pretty dumb to say "HURR DURR ANYONE WHO'S PROUD OF BUYING IN THE LAST FEW YEARS SUCKS REALTOR COCK".

On the other hand, we bought in 05 in a not-so-bubble-ish area, and recently refi'd into a 4% note, so our house payment (including insurance/taxes) is LESS than what we were paying for rent on a smaller apartment five years ago. But that's another YMMV situation...I probably couldn't have pulled that off if I lived in wolvernova's neck of the woods.
 
2010-08-28 10:38:52 PM  
Lawnchair: It's the rising rents (and general assumption that there will be baseline monetary inflation, which you lock against by buying) that make all the difference.

Rents rise (generally) with inflation. As do house prices. Lending terms grow longer and longer. When home prices are crashing, it's really laughable to hear home snobs talking up ownership. "Har, I stole back five grand from mortgage interest deduction. My house's value fell by $50k, but at least I'm not a dumbass renter!"
 
2010-08-28 10:39:22 PM  
SkittleBrau: /four more payments and mortgage is done
//no fuchsia paint in the house
///but could if I wanted to


Congrats! You going to hand the bank the last check in person and have them stamp the mortgage "Paid in full"?
/Just don't burn the house at your mortgage burning party
 
2010-08-28 10:44:01 PM  
Dear Jerk: I figure it this way:

Poor - Can't meet basic needs.
Working Class - Living hand to mouth.
Middle Class - Has comfortable savings. Not stressed by bills.
Rich - $3M
Significant Wealth - $40M


I can't argue with that, pretty good. And it also reaffirms that we no longer have a middle class in this country.

schief2: That, and wolvernova seems to be operating under the assumption that there are an unlimited number of underwater landlords in this country willing to take a hit year after year by renting properties for less than half of their mortgage payments.

Rents are controlled by the market. My landlord could own the house outright or be deeply underwater. Doesn't matter.

schief2: It works for him, but he's in fairly uncommon situation, so it's pretty dumb to say "HURR DURR ANYONE WHO'S PROUD OF BUYING IN THE LAST FEW YEARS SUCKS REALTOR COCK".

No, it's dumb to say that renting is throwing money away or paying your landlord's mortgage. Only an idiot says dumb shiat like that. Mortgage interest is throwing money away. Property taxes too. Maintenance, the list is endless. You're paying for a roof over your head. Stupid tax provisions for mortgage interest are like an adrenaline rush to would-be owners and a strong sales pitch for RE industry scum to pump ownership.


schief2: But that's another YMMV situation...I probably couldn't have pulled that off if I lived in wolvernova's neck of the woods.

Most of my friends bought in 05, and they are pretty farked.
 
2010-08-28 10:49:16 PM  
I'm 36
I own my car
I have no wife or children
I rent for $350 a month
I have health insurance.
I have exactly $258 in my bank account
I have 20K of student loans
....
What am I?
 
2010-08-28 10:49:27 PM  
wolvernova: Fark_Guy_Rob: Pot. Meet kettle.

Looking for an excuse to use that phrase, or care to emphasize your point?


You both have TPS?
 
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