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(Breitbart.com)   Wired youth in China and Japan are forgetting how to write, eat with forks   (breitbart.com ) divider line
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2094 clicks; posted to Geek » on 26 Aug 2010 at 1:02 PM (6 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



28 Comments     (+0 »)
 
 
2010-08-26 12:09:38 PM  
Farking forking, how does it work?
 
2010-08-26 12:13:13 PM  
Analog mojibake. Nice
 
2010-08-26 01:05:52 PM  
Wired?? Come to the wired!

t2.gstatic.com

t2.gstatic.com
 
2010-08-26 01:06:40 PM  
They'll fit right in on Fark then.
 
2010-08-26 01:13:08 PM  
What's sad is that some people actually support the use of the out-dated, inefficient system....because it's part of their 'culture'.

Sad.
 
2010-08-26 01:16:18 PM  
Aren't they wireless by now?
 
2010-08-26 01:20:35 PM  
Maybe because each of their characters takes 400 lines to make...
 
2010-08-26 01:22:21 PM  
Hooray! Let them spend half their educational years learning to draw complicated stroked characters instead of real skills.

It's the only way we'll stay ahead of them.
 
2010-08-26 01:35:06 PM  
Subby went with "youth in China" instead of "youth in Asia".

-1
 
2010-08-26 01:52:01 PM  
I'm embarrassed by my signature every time I have to use it and I'm pretty sure its from a lack of situations requiring hand written communication, so I can relate.
 
2010-08-26 02:19:13 PM  
That annual list of things professors should know about the incoming freshmen class listed that many of the freshmen won't know how to write in cursive this year.
 
2010-08-26 02:55:35 PM  

a4matte: That annual list of things professors should know about the incoming freshmen class listed that many of the freshmen won't know how to write in cursive this year.


I remember cursive. Learn it 3rd grade, use it in 4th grade, and by 5th grade no one cares. Explain to me the usefulness of a capital T that looks like a J.
 
2010-08-26 03:13:22 PM  
Wow, Breitbart link in the Geek tab? So how much money is old Bret paying you Drew?
 
2010-08-26 03:18:03 PM  

Bag of Hammers: Wow, Breitbart link in the Geek tab? So how much money is old Bret paying you Drew?


They're trying to catch up to CONTACT MUSIC
 
2010-08-26 03:30:33 PM  
This actually isn't a huge surprise. Considering what the internet does to people in terms of memorization skills and filling our heads with digital junk, and no longer memorizing things because we can always just look it up on the internet.

I haven't decided if this is necessarily a bad thing, although I don't even bother memorizing phone numbers anymore, haven't consulted a dictionary, and haven't even regularly written in cursive script for almost 15 years. In the event of the inevitable digital dark age (coming 2012?) we're going to have to go back to basics.
 
2010-08-26 03:40:50 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: What's sad is that some people actually support the use of the out-dated, inefficient system....because it's part of their 'culture'.

Sad.


I can kind of understand the need for the Chinese to use their writing system, but the Japanese have no excuse. A phonetic language like Japanese has no need to use characters developed for a completely unrelated language.

The only good use for Kanji are for trashy tattoos on white trash.

/Passed JLPT2 exam
 
2010-08-26 04:02:07 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: What's sad is that some people actually support the use of the out-dated, inefficient system....because it's part of their 'culture'.

Sad.


umm... right.... because a writing system that can be read across hundreds of dialects is inefficient... any system that is not phonetic should be thrown out.

but of course txtspk is the most efficient and should be used everywhere.
 
2010-08-26 04:11:37 PM  

cybrwzrd: The only good use for Kanji are for trashy tattoos on white trash.


「かんじ」は意味ですか。

There are 10 possible right answers that I know of. How could you possibly know which one I'm looking for? Oh! I know... use 漢字。
 
2010-08-26 04:25:05 PM  

Accolade: cybrwzrd: The only good use for Kanji are for trashy tattoos on white trash.

「かんじ」は意味ですか。

There are 10 possible right answers that I know of. How could you possibly know which one I'm looking for? Oh! I know... use 漢字。


Please give me the correct meaning of bow, live, fluke, bank and fair that I am thinking of. English has the same problem, we just get away with it through context.
 
2010-08-26 04:27:14 PM  

cybrwzrd: we just get away with it through context.


So a means that avoids that very problem should be rejected?
 
2010-08-26 04:48:20 PM  

Accolade: cybrwzrd: we just get away with it through context.

So a means that avoids that very problem should be rejected?


The individual kanji themselves have just as many different readings between the multiple kun and on readings. It still is a bad example you made as a defense for their continued usage.

It takes far too many years and classroom hours to develop any level of mastery of the Kanji. Japanese schools would be better off spending that same level of effort on studying literature to promote independant thought than reinforcing the whole route memorization and regurgitation of data that plagues Japanese society.
 
2010-08-26 05:06:26 PM  

cybrwzrd: The individual kanji themselves have just as many different readings between the multiple kun and on readings. It still is a bad example you made as a defense for their continued usage.

It takes far too many years and classroom hours to develop any level of mastery of the Kanji. Japanese schools would be better off spending that same level of effort on studying literature to promote independant thought than reinforcing the whole route memorization and regurgitation of data that plagues Japanese society.


heh. True on the first part. I guess I'll learn more about the second part soon enough. I'm moving to Japan for a stay that will probably be about as long as you were there. Any suggestions for helping my fluency? I've studied for a few years, but am well out of practice. I'm hoping to take some of the free language classes that I can find in Okayama (between Hiroshima and Osaka). What was your experience?
 
2010-08-26 05:58:59 PM  

Accolade: heh. True on the first part. I guess I'll learn more about the second part soon enough. I'm moving to Japan for a stay that will probably be about as long as you were there. Any suggestions for helping my fluency? I've studied for a few years, but am well out of practice. I'm hoping to take some of the free language classes that I can find in Okayama (between Hiroshima and Osaka). What was your experience?


I went to a school called Yamasa (new window). It was an awesome experience, and I had a ton of fun, even though I spent 8 hours a day in classes learning only Japanese. What are you going there for?

Best thing you can do for your language skills is to make a bunch of friends and speak the language every day, classes also do help. But I still feel like I learned more Japanese at night with Japanese friends and while working at a bar than I ever did in the classroom talking to other non-natives.
 
2010-08-26 06:06:29 PM  
cybrwzrd:

It comes pretty easy if you're exposed to it often enough. I wasn't raised in japan or went to japanese school, but I can read newspaper-level kanji thanks to my manga addiction. Oh and my parents having me speak it at home.

And hiragana is NOT adequate for high level communication. Japanese words have less syllables than English counterparts(hence the fast talking in crappy english dubs) and there would be mass confusion if everyone just started using hiragana or katakana. I'll try it:

われわれのにんげんせいにかけるおこないはのちのじだいにのこるはじのもとになるだろう。

Lame. If it were written in kanji it would have taken 1/20 the amount of time to read and understand it.

我々の人間性に欠ける行いは後の時代に残る恥の元と成るだろう

I'm not saying its the best system. but you do with what you got.

And i can think of other advantages to a character system... I know what most chinese symbols say so I know what i'm ordering oh a chinese menu. pork stomach, please.
 
2010-08-26 06:12:27 PM  

cybrwzrd: But I still feel like I learned more Japanese at night with Japanese friends and while working at a bar than I ever did in the classroom talking to other non-natives.


Yeah, I can understand this. I lived there for a couple of months, but I thought some sort of formal education might be needed for fluency. Too many people wanted to speak English with me and I had one hell of a time trying to understand the Japanese (I need to train my ear for it). They're often so quick and quiet! I've been back many times since then to see my (now) fiance and I will be marrying her in Japan this November. I know she will have plenty of resources for me to check out, but I like hearing what others have done.

Can I ask how much you made working at a bar? I'm still working out what I will do for money.
 
2010-08-26 06:19:20 PM  

shakenasababy: I'm not saying its the best system. but you do with what you got.


I think one of the more stupendous revelations when it comes to NOT knowing a Kanji is that... well, that's it. There's no sounding it out. There's no asking someone what it means (verbally). You're just kind of stuck until you can find some sort of visual confirmation.

I know there are radicals within the characters that might help to hint at a meaning, but they're not definitive.

That said, I do agree that the visual aspect of Kanji are rather amazing. Because they are ideograms, they can communicate a little bit more than a single word. It might not be the "most simple" method, but there is a certain quality to it that I like and can admire.
 
2010-08-26 10:01:57 PM  
kanji can suck it. seriously, they do make reading japanese easier with the meanings and everything, but the amount of time they spend learning them, and then wind up forgetting them is astounding.


and as been said, nothing is more annoying than the Japanese take on "by the book" and learning from "rote memorization"

they try to apply it to everything, and it doesn't work. A few people i know have a pet theory that this is why Japan spends the most on foreign language education in asia, and consistently test lower than countries like vietnam,thailand, korea in foreign language.

you can't learn English by saying
Hello
Im fine thank you and you

a thousand times


/currently teaching english in Japan
石川県万歳!
 
2010-08-26 11:53:01 PM  
Genju Quote 2010-08-26 01:05:52 PM
Wired?? Come to the wired!



Wired Lain is watching you masturbate.
 
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