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(The Weekly Standard)   P.J. O'Rourke on why things aren't working in Afghanistan: "Afghans have failed to move their corruption from the Rod Blagojevich model, which we all deplore, to the Barack Obama model, which we all admire"   (weeklystandard.com) divider line 126
    More: Amusing, know-it-all, BFFs, Afghanistan, experts, army base, Radio Free Europe, nouns  
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1473 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Aug 2010 at 2:31 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-08-24 11:28:33 AM
hehe

Ok, now that funny.

Tis the Chicago way...
 
2010-08-24 11:31:17 AM
The mullah represents another thing that makes Afghanistan hard to understand for Americans, although only for elite Americans who've had prestigious schooling and hold advanced opinions about everything. We ordinary Americans, far from such centers of heathen unbelief as the Brookings Institution, get the drift of a deeply religious polity.

I really tried to read past this part. I really did. There are actually a few humorous sentences in this article but, I'm sorry, when O'Rourke starts pulling bullsh*t like this, that's when I remember why it's so hard to take him seriously.
 
2010-08-24 11:40:24 AM
The practically nonexistent kind? Yeah, that would help over there.
 
2010-08-24 11:42:41 AM
FIVE pages of P J O'Rourke. No thanks. Five paragraphs is about all I stomach
 
2010-08-24 11:45:09 AM
I'd never thought about suicide bombing in terms of comfort.

This is why I like reading his stuff.
 
2010-08-24 11:45:20 AM
Yeah, it's all the Afghans' fault. It's not like we invaded, murdered thousands of people, and installed a puppet government.
 
2010-08-24 11:47:13 AM
sweetmelissa31: Yeah, it's all the Afghans' fault. It's not like we invaded, murdered thousands of people, and installed a puppet government.

Why do you hate our troops?
 
2010-08-24 11:49:02 AM
Lionel Mandrake: Why do you hate our troops?

Because they should be here, forcing conservatives into FEMA gulags.
 
2010-08-24 11:50:08 AM
The only person on this planet that I want to beat the ever-living-shiat out of worse than John Bolton, is P.J. O'Rourke.

Seriously, fark P.J. O'Rourke.
 
2010-08-24 11:52:10 AM
sweetmelissa31: Yeah, it's all the Afghans' fault. It's not like we invaded, murdered thousands of people, and installed a puppet government.

They did send a few people over here to start some shiat.

/The Iraqis have a good reason to be annoyed.
 
2010-08-24 11:55:12 AM
He shoulda stuck with funny


.
 
2010-08-24 11:55:58 AM
mitchcumstein1: The only person on this planet that I want to beat the ever-living-shiat out of worse than John Bolton, is P.J. O'Rourke.

Seriously, fark P.J. O'Rourke.


I think he's a fantastic writer. I own a number of his books. He's quite intelligent, and unlike many pundits, he actually goes out into the field.
 
2010-08-24 11:58:17 AM
Nabb1: mitchcumstein1: The only person on this planet that I want to beat the ever-living-shiat out of worse than John Bolton, is P.J. O'Rourke.

Seriously, fark P.J. O'Rourke.

I think he's a fantastic writer. I own a number of his books. He's quite intelligent, and unlike many pundits, he actually goes out into the field.


I put him in the same category as Buckley the Elder, but this article was really disappointing.
 
2010-08-24 12:02:35 PM
sweetmelissa31: Lionel Mandrake: Why do you hate our troops?

Because they should be here, forcing conservatives into FEMA gulags.


Obviously you missed the last meeting. That task has been delegated to the Obamajugend.
 
2010-08-24 12:03:21 PM
We ordinary Real Americans, far from such centers of heathen unbelief as the Brookings Institution, get the drift of a deeply religious polity.

Fixed!
/and fark you, PJ
 
2010-08-24 12:04:30 PM
Nabb1: mitchcumstein1: The only person on this planet that I want to beat the ever-living-shiat out of worse than John Bolton, is P.J. O'Rourke.

Seriously, fark P.J. O'Rourke.

I think he's a fantastic writer. I own a number of his books. He's quite intelligent, and unlike many pundits, he actually goes out into the field.


I saw him on the Daily Show once and just, absolutely couldn't stand to watch him. It's not his opinions or writing, in fact I think he's a very good writer, it's his demeanor. I just want to punch him in the face.

Bolton I just hate on general principle.
 
2010-08-24 12:06:08 PM
patrick767: Fixed!
/and fark you, PJ


That, to me, is the most disappointing thing about P.J. O'Rourke. He's bought into this Real America/Fake America bullsh*t. Well, maybe not bought into it, but he's certainly playing the game.
 
2010-08-24 12:11:21 PM
mitchcumstein1: The only person on this planet that I want to beat the ever-living-shiat out of worse than John Bolton, is P.J. O'Rourke.

Seriously, fark P.J. O'Rourke.



Angry liberal is angry.
 
2010-08-24 12:13:45 PM
EvilEgg: They did send a few people over here to start some shiat.

The Taliban sheltered an organization who sent some people over to start some shiat with us. In response, we provided military aid and occupying troops in support of the Northern Alliance, a disparate group of tribes, ethnicities and political interests that would have been killing each other if it weren't for the fact that the Taliban was killing all of them.

Since then, we have insisted on treating Afghanistan as a cohesive, singular political entity, completely against all evidence to the contrary. We use military force on behalf of the Mayor of Kabul, who has become the most hated figure in the region, prop up various warlords against other warlords in the hopes that that will somehow result in less violence, and do no lasting damage to the Taliban, despite our asstons of drone strikes and super-advanced weaponry.

We are fighting a protracted campaign in a place that they call the "Graveyard of Empires", which as recently as the 1980s was a giant clusterfark for the Soviet Union. The only strategic goal we have (a functioning central government that is also a US puppet state) is impossible.

To even say "they did something" in reference to what you imagine to be a central Afghan political authority is to completely misunderstand the situation.
 
2010-08-24 12:14:42 PM
He has the common touch just like ex-governor Badger.
 
2010-08-24 12:17:00 PM
"We ordinary Americans, far from such centers of heathen unbelief as the Brookings Institution, get the drift of a deeply religious polity."

So do we. That's why we don't want you in power

.
 
2010-08-24 12:20:30 PM
The_Sponge: mitchcumstein1: The only person on this planet that I want to beat the ever-living-shiat out of worse than John Bolton, is P.J. O'Rourke.

Seriously, fark P.J. O'Rourke.


Angry liberal is angry.



Conservatives don't have a monopoly on anger. They're just louder about it.
 
2010-08-24 12:22:27 PM
Why don't they just adhere to the Bush model of corruption? Hire a bunch of graduates fresh out of the Afghan equivalent of Liberty U. and put them in high level positions of power so that they can sell the entire country to the highest corporate bidder and then invade Lesotho because that's where they make all the sand that blankets Afghanistan and sand is the number 1 threat to the Afghan way of life and if you disagree you hate Afghanistan and support sand terror. Then Hamid Karzai can do absolutely nothing in his last two years in office as the country's economy circles the toilet drain.

That would be a serious win/win for Afghanistan, just like it was for Real America and Real Americans.
 
2010-08-24 12:23:25 PM
mitchcumstein1: T

Conservatives don't have a monopoly on anger. They're just louder about it.


More, we've been putting up with the Hate Speech Industry for a long, long, time


.
 
2010-08-24 12:24:14 PM
sigdiamond2000: patrick767: Fixed!
/and fark you, PJ

That, to me, is the most disappointing thing about P.J. O'Rourke. He's bought into this Real America/Fake America bullsh*t. Well, maybe not bought into it, but he's certainly playing the game.


I don't think that's what he meant by "ordinary Americans" in comparison to mullahs in Afghanistan.
 
2010-08-24 12:26:35 PM
The_Sponge: mitchcumstein1: The only person on this planet that I want to beat the ever-living-shiat out of worse than John Bolton, is P.J. O'Rourke.

Seriously, fark P.J. O'Rourke.


Angry liberal is angry.


That was quite pithy and cerebral. I believe I recognize the debating style; is it from Dr. Alistair Fitz-Wembley's debate class at Dartmouth?
 
2010-08-24 12:28:06 PM
demanton: Why don't they just adhere to the Bush model of corruption? Hire a bunch of graduates fresh out of the Afghan equivalent of Liberty U. and put them in high level positions of power so that they can sell the entire country to the highest corporate bidder and then invade Lesotho because that's where they make all the sand that blankets Afghanistan and sand is the number 1 threat to the Afghan way of life and if you disagree you hate Afghanistan and support sand terror. Then Hamid Karzai can do absolutely nothing in his last two years in office as the country's economy circles the toilet drain.

That would be a serious win/win for Afghanistan, just like it was for Real America and Real Americans.


Nice work. You just graduated to 'favorites'.
 
2010-08-24 12:32:07 PM
The quiet mullah was quietly dressed and modestly bearded, his close-cut hair topped with a simple turban. He was immediately recognizable as "mainstream." I don't mean he was hopelessly mainstream to the post-religious point like some American clergy. I'd compare him to a solid Methodist or Presbyterian or picket fence Baptist, not unwilling to make his sermons socially relevant but no Kumbaya singing.

Goddamn that's funny.
 
2010-08-24 12:38:26 PM
demanton: That was quite pithy and cerebral. I believe I recognize the debating style; is it from Dr. Alistair Fitz-Wembley's debate class at Dartmouth?


Sometimes a simple answer is the best answer. Besides, if there were a list called "Conservatives Who are the Most Hated by Liberals", I'd assume that P.J. O'Rourke would be at the bottom of said list.
 
2010-08-24 12:39:38 PM
Nabb1: I don't think that's what he meant by "ordinary Americans" in comparison to mullahs in Afghanistan.

I'm not talking about his point about "ordinary Americans" understanding religious politics similar to how Afghanis understand it (that's a questionable point too...you don't have to be religious to understand the influence of religion in politics), I'm talking about him distinguishing "ordinary Americans" from all others in the first place. It's lazy, stupid, and unfair.

I mean, does he actually expect us to believe that he and his fellow writers and editors at The Weekly Standard aren't part of the "elite class?" Does being born rich, or attending the most exclusive private schools in the country, or being an academic only make you an elitist or a "non-ordinary American" if you don't share O'Rourke's politics?
 
2010-08-24 12:39:53 PM
The U.S. government also wants to spend money, he complained, on "accelerated teacher training" when what Afghanistan needs is just plain teacher training. "This accelerated training leaves no bricks and mortar behind. You are spending U.S. tax dollars building something taxpayers can't see." His pocket critique of U.S. aid: "Everything is air, nothing is on the ground." I didn't have the heart to tell him about No Child Left Behind.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
 
2010-08-24 12:45:41 PM
sigdiamond2000: Nabb1: I don't think that's what he meant by "ordinary Americans" in comparison to mullahs in Afghanistan.

I'm not talking about his point about "ordinary Americans" understanding religious politics similar to how Afghanis understand it (that's a questionable point too...you don't have to be religious to understand the influence of religion in politics), I'm talking about him distinguishing "ordinary Americans" from all others in the first place. It's lazy, stupid, and unfair.

I mean, does he actually expect us to believe that he and his fellow writers and editors at The Weekly Standard aren't part of the "elite class?" Does being born rich, or attending the most exclusive private schools in the country, or being an academic only make you an elitist or a "non-ordinary American" if you don't share O'Rourke's politics?


I think you, Mr. O'Rourke and I have far more cultural and social similarities between ourselves than any of us has with your average denizen of Afghanistan off in the hinterlands herding goats and farming dirt and rocks and living in a tribe with a religious figure at the center of the social structure. If that offends you, well, I guess you have every right to be offended by something so it may as well be that.
 
2010-08-24 12:55:29 PM
The_Sponge: demanton: That was quite pithy and cerebral. I believe I recognize the debating style; is it from Dr. Alistair Fitz-Wembley's debate class at Dartmouth?


Sometimes a simple answer is the best answer. Besides, if there were a list called "Conservatives Who are the Most Hated by Liberals", I'd assume that P.J. O'Rourke would be at the bottom of said list.


I don't hate him, I just think he's an arrogant prick.
 
2010-08-24 12:56:46 PM
mitchcumstein1: I don't hate him, I just think he's an arrogant prick.

Same reason some people like him.
 
2010-08-24 01:01:16 PM
mitchcumstein1: The_Sponge: demanton: That was quite pithy and cerebral. I believe I recognize the debating style; is it from Dr. Alistair Fitz-Wembley's debate class at Dartmouth?


Sometimes a simple answer is the best answer. Besides, if there were a list called "Conservatives Who are the Most Hated by Liberals", I'd assume that P.J. O'Rourke would be at the bottom of said list.

I don't hate him, I just think he's an arrogant prick.


Having read him for over twenty years, I can say he is self-deprecating enough that he's not that much of an arrogant prick, or at least willing to acknowledge that he's an arrogant prick.
 
2010-08-24 01:05:34 PM
mitchcumstein1: I don't hate him, I just think he's an arrogant prick.


Funny....I feel the same way about Obama.
 
2010-08-24 01:09:04 PM
Nabb1: mitchcumstein1: The_Sponge: demanton: That was quite pithy and cerebral. I believe I recognize the debating style; is it from Dr. Alistair Fitz-Wembley's debate class at Dartmouth?


Sometimes a simple answer is the best answer. Besides, if there were a list called "Conservatives Who are the Most Hated by Liberals", I'd assume that P.J. O'Rourke would be at the bottom of said list.

I don't hate him, I just think he's an arrogant prick.

Having read him for over twenty years, I can say he is self-deprecating enough that he's not that much of an arrogant prick, or at least willing to acknowledge that he's an arrogant prick.


I think it's the latter. I can read his stuff just fine, he's a very good writer, it's when I watch him on TV is when he makes me angry.
 
2010-08-24 01:14:23 PM
Okay, I read the whole article. Here's what I got out of it: PJ O'Rourke goes all the way to Kabul to come to the conclusion that he likes talk radio. That's nice, PJ.
 
2010-08-24 01:14:57 PM
The_Sponge: mitchcumstein1: I don't hate him, I just think he's an arrogant prick.


Funny....I feel the same way about Obama.


Yeah, I'd say anybody who thinks 50-70 million people are going to vote for them probably has a fairly health sense of self esteem. That doesn't make him unique amongst Presidents though.

Or Senators, or Congressmen, or Mayors, or City Council Members, or STUCO officers.
 
2010-08-24 01:15:45 PM
Nabb1: sigdiamond2000: Nabb1: I don't think that's what he meant by "ordinary Americans" in comparison to mullahs in Afghanistan.

I'm not talking about his point about "ordinary Americans" understanding religious politics similar to how Afghanis understand it (that's a questionable point too...you don't have to be religious to understand the influence of religion in politics), I'm talking about him distinguishing "ordinary Americans" from all others in the first place. It's lazy, stupid, and unfair.

I mean, does he actually expect us to believe that he and his fellow writers and editors at The Weekly Standard aren't part of the "elite class?" Does being born rich, or attending the most exclusive private schools in the country, or being an academic only make you an elitist or a "non-ordinary American" if you don't share O'Rourke's politics?

I think you, Mr. O'Rourke and I have far more cultural and social similarities between ourselves than any of us has with your average denizen of Afghanistan off in the hinterlands herding goats and farming dirt and rocks and living in a tribe with a religious figure at the center of the social structure. If that offends you, well, I guess you have every right to be offended by something so it may as well be that.


Dude, come on.

I'm not saying I'm offended because O'Rourke is making a distinction between "ordinary Americans" and Afghans. I'm saying I'm offended because he's making the distinction between "ordinary Americans" and "other Americans."
 
2010-08-24 01:22:16 PM
sigdiamond2000: I'm not saying I'm offended because O'Rourke is making a distinction between "ordinary Americans" and Afghans. I'm saying I'm offended because he's making the distinction between "ordinary Americans" and "other Americans."

Oh, you mean the sardonic comment about "elite Americans who've had prestigious schooling and hold advanced opinions about everything"? Yew, that's just indefensible for a guy who has made an entire career out of injecting his writing with dry humor.
 
2010-08-24 01:49:01 PM
Nabb1: Oh, you mean the sardonic comment about "elite Americans who've had prestigious schooling and hold advanced opinions about everything"? Yew, that's just indefensible for a guy who has made an entire career out of injecting his writing with dry humor.

I'd give more credence to the idea that he was just joking if I hadn't seen he and other conservative pundits make this same argument ad nauseum for the last 20 years...that somehow, although they grew up enjoying the same privileges and engage in the same behavior as those they mock as being out of touch, they are magically not part of thi "elite class" simply by virtue of being conservatives.

The idea that P.J. O'Rourke and The Weekly Standard represent Joe Sixpack and offer a "just-folks" counterbalance to the effete, elitist intellectuals is a little hard to stomach.
 
2010-08-24 02:01:35 PM
MorrisBird: Okay, I read the whole article. Here's what I got out of it: PJ O'Rourke goes all the way to Kabul to come to the conclusion that they like talk radio. That's nice, PJ.

A very important distinction.
 
2010-08-24 02:05:58 PM
Dancin_In_Anson: A very important distinction.

I'm usually a fan of PJ. I even helped edit one of his books when I was in law school (he's a dreadful speller). But, honestly, that was an awfully long piece to find out that the Afghani people like talk radio.
 
2010-08-24 02:10:15 PM
Dancin_In_Anson: The quiet mullah was quietly dressed and modestly bearded, his close-cut hair topped with a simple turban. He was immediately recognizable as "mainstream." I don't mean he was hopelessly mainstream to the post-religious point like some American clergy. I'd compare him to a solid Methodist or Presbyterian or picket fence Baptist, not unwilling to make his sermons socially relevant but no Kumbaya singing.

Goddamn that's funny.


I guess I'll take your word for it. I have noticed that most "conservatives" find a sentence containing "kumbaya" to be side-splittingly hilarious.

I don't get it. I must not have a sense of humor.
 
2010-08-24 02:16:52 PM
Lionel Mandrake: I don't get it. I must not have a sense of humor.

Watch "An American Carol" fifteen times in a row. You will then be brain-damaged enough to find such things amusing.
 
2010-08-24 02:37:59 PM
The Stealth Hippopotamus: hehe

Ok, now that funny.

Tis the Chicago way...


Some Richard Daley style corruption is just what they need.
 
2010-08-24 02:38:26 PM
sigdiamond2000: patrick767: Fixed!
/and fark you, PJ

That, to me, is the most disappointing thing about P.J. O'Rourke. He's bought into this Real America/Fake America bullsh*t. Well, maybe not bought into it, but he's certainly playing the game.


You sound like a fake American.
 
2010-08-24 02:39:58 PM
Scerpes: sigdiamond2000: patrick767: Fixed!
/and fark you, PJ

That, to me, is the most disappointing thing about P.J. O'Rourke. He's bought into this Real America/Fake America bullsh*t. Well, maybe not bought into it, but he's certainly playing the game.

You sound like a fake American.


I'm right there with him, though. P.J. sounds like he's got some serious axes to grind, and he's trying to dress it up in sarcasm and wit. Unfortunately, there are some tones that, when dressed in sarcasm, make you sound like a stuffy prick moreso than a clever writer.
 
2010-08-24 02:40:21 PM
The_Sponge: mitchcumstein1: I don't hate him, I just think he's an arrogant prick.


Funny....I feel the same way about Obama.


You are upset because Obama is smarter than you?
 
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