jennickell: I feel much more comfortable with a male dr poking in me than a female. Actually the thought of a female dr (which I have never been too), really creeps me out.

Hey Jennickell, *I'm* a male Dr! Let me know if you need any poking...

Magorn: so it seems that if the dementia patient is reverting to childhood, that a black Nurses aide would be a source of comfort, not consternation

They're not reverting to childhood. They have dementia. Huge difference.

CheetahOlivetti: Pucca: I guess I'm prejudice because I prefer a male OBGYN. I've gone to both men and women doctors and in my experience, men are much more gentle. I've actually been hurt by a woman doctor before.

I felt that way until my male OBGYN leaned on my stomach to pop my daughter out like a zit. While simultaneously reaching in to pull her out. Owowowowowow.

At least he didn't squeeze you like a tube of toothpaste then try to brush his teeth. That would have been awkward.

DROxINxTHExWIND: ihatedumbpeople: Wait...she's claiming her civil rights were violated because some old geezer fell and she didn't have to pick her up?

It all sounds stupid until you can't find work at a white hospital because a majority of the patients won't allow you to do your job. What happens if 75% of the other white residents took the same stand? It would put strain on the white staff who have to do extra work at presumebly the same pay...because of their race. Ignorance normally effects us all.

Oh, I know...I was just being retarded.

/most of my comments aren't serious.

jennickell: Helena Handbasket: what_now: Heh. The Patients' right to chose the type of caregiver. Not really sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, you have racists idiots like this old lady.

On the other hand, do you want to a woman she has to see a male gynecologist? Do you want to tell a man he has to see a female urologist? If the point is patient care, shouldn't the patient be as comfortable as possible?

Well, I don't know...but I've always felt more comfortable with a male gynecologist than with a female one. After all, if I've got to have someone checking me out, I prefer it to be a guy. :D

I just had this same discussion with a friend the other day, she was looking for a new OB/GYN and I said "go to Dr Parker, he's awesome" and she said she just cant go to a male. I am the complete opisite, I feel much more comfortable with a male dr poking in me than a female. Actually the thought of a female dr (which I have never been too), really creeps me out.

I've never had a gender preference either way - It's going to be awkward no matter what, so my primary criteria has been: Are they pleasant, straightforward and knowledgeable? I've been very lucky that all the doctors/nurses at my current OBGYN fit all three criteria.

satanorsanta: PeterPipersPickledPecker: "Hell-ooo, nurse!"

Yeah, and I only want my nurse to look like this.



I prefer a team of nurses.

Except this one...

CheetahOlivetti: I felt that way until my male OBGYN leaned on my stomach to pop my daughter out like a zit. While simultaneously reaching in to pull her out. Owowowowowow.

Walk it off.

blazemongr: Here's the crux of the problem:

Some elderly people revert in dementia to the prejudices they grew up with.

You can't really blame an elderly patient for thinking they're back in a time before the civil rights movement.

However, holding the nursing home and caregiver legally responsible for that racism is the real problem. If a dementia patient wants to prefer white caregivers... well, that's terrible, but achievable. I know many sane and healthy women prefer female doctors (especially OB-GYN) for reasons that are, in essense, prejudicial. But few will deny they have a right (and sometimes, good reason) to make that choice.

They call it "dementia" for a reason. The patient is not in her right mind, and has been placed in the care of a facility which has the right and duty to call the cops should she leave the premises without permission. The fundamental civil right of travel being withheld, certainly uncivil "rights" have no basis.

Considering that Plainfield is not far from "determinedly white" parts of the state, the family probably could have arranged for a facility where the matriarch would not have to deal with black aides. They did not, quite possibly for reasons that have nothing to do with interracial comity. (It's generally bad to move patients far from their families; it's quite possible that the lily-white towns in the area boasted nursing homes swimming in filth and neglect.)

There are some racist old bastards in nursing homes. One of my friends used to work in one, where most of the staff was black and filipino... and there was usually only one or two white people on staff from 11 pm to 8 am. She told me cool stories about how the filipinos got fed up with the asswipes that wouldn't let black people help them, but called the filipinos "japs", "gooks" and every other name in the book so they refused to help them too. The day staff (mostly white) would have to clean up all the sh*tty diapers, bodily fluids and diarrhea left overnight when the old people couldn't make it to the bathroom in time.

If you fall and break your hip and won't let a black person help you up, you deserve to lie there in your own filth and suffer.

The only saving grace is that these assholes will all be dead soon.

If I were a black nurse and someone on the floor had specific orders not to let them touch me, I'd spend a good couple hours just teasing tease about it. "You've fallen! And I can't help you up!"

Pick your Doc and service people for their abilities, anyone who would refuse help in a situation like that deserves to sit right where they are for being a racist fark.

Most medical professionals are just that . . . PROFESSIONALS.

Last check up I had I went to my male doc but one of his female assistants did most of the poking and prodding. Came time to gimme the ole finger-wave, and she asked if I wanted the doc in for that part.
"Nah let's just get it over with."
Her face fell, then she double gloved.
So I decided to have a bit of fun.
"I cleaned it up back there I'm not that nasty!"
In a sweet southern accent (with a who farted ya'll face) she says.
"Ah know, but its poooop!"
Prolly would have been funnier but then she started using me as a puppet . . .

On another note, my old man is fairly racist and I have been telling him for years, he's getting the biggest, blackest, meanest nurse we can find to wipe his butt for him if he's too much of a shiat in his old age.

Magorn: OTOH if he were clearly about to die, would that refusal of treatmenmt hold up, or could the doctors assume that he was no longer in his right mind and therefore incapable of withholding consent?

Refusing life-saving treatment does not mean that a person isn't in their right mind.

You can't just declare them mentally incapable of making their own healthcare decisions because they don't want you to treat their life-threatening condition.

I don't understand how her civil rights were violated. Does she have a right to care for white people?

SchlingFocker: Magorn: OTOH if he were clearly about to die, would that refusal of treatmenmt hold up, or could the doctors assume that he was no longer in his right mind and therefore incapable of withholding consent?

Refusing life-saving treatment does not mean that a person isn't in their right mind.

You can't just declare them mentally incapable of making their own healthcare decisions because they don't want you to treat their life-threatening condition.

According to the EMTs in my area, if someone refuses treatment or a trip to the hospital, they have to wait until the person is unconscious before they can do anything.

snuff3r: TFA: Elderly patients, who won more legal control over their quality of life in nursing homes, sometimes want to dictate the race of those who care for them. And some nursing homes enforce those preferences in their staff policies.

The law recognises skin colour?


Yes. What, never heard of "Affirmitive Action"?

daveb0rg: I don't understand how her civil rights were violated. Does she have a right to care for white people?

It also says his instructions were that he "Prefers No Black CNAs.", not that he forbad them. Sounds more like Nursey was engaging in a little race-hate herself.

TheGreatGildersleeve: snuff3r: TFA: Elderly patients, who won more legal control over their quality of life in nursing homes, sometimes want to dictate the race of those who care for them. And some nursing homes enforce those preferences in their staff policies.

The law recognises skin colour?


Yes. What, never heard of "Affirmitive Action"?

Or seen an episode of Cops?

This whole thing reminds me of grandpa and his wonderfully racist attitudes. He'd throw around words like "darkie" and "spook" in casual conversation. It used to upset mom quite a bit, and dad would shrug it off as me receiving my "cultural education". Fortunately, dad was also the one who told me that no matter how many times a black person stole something from me (by then it was around the 6th time) that all ethnicities have people who are great and people who are worthless.

Magorn: flaEsq: The one thing that seemed strange to me however was the idea that this was mostly driven by dementia patients returning to the prejudices of their youth. Even in the deepest parts of the south during the worst of the Jim Crow era, it was very common for even middle class white families to have a black cook/nanny, general caretaker for their children, so it seems that if the dementia patient is reverting to childhood, that a black Nurses aide would be a source of comfort, not consternation

Welcome to the difference between Northern and Southern crackers.

South: You may come near, but stay down.
North: You may rise up, but stay away.

I heard of one older black man who got into the habit of screaming out the "N" word, racially threatening and cursing at blacks at intervals when there were white health care workers around. The staff assumed that he was very senile or demented, as he sounded at times like a totally pissed off and irrational Klansman.

Then they got really bent out of shape when his family visited, and told them that no, he wasn't demented at all, just that he hated white people and really liked being a total diack about it.

The staff got their revenge by bringing in a very senior nurse who was black. She went on a screaming cuss out of him that would have made a US Navy Master Chief blush, and "about peeled the paint off the walls". He behaved himself after that.

How does the patient's contract define black? It's not like it's a black and white issue. Race does not exist in the United States by any current biological or scientific definition. Race is a self-identified, self-reported social and cultural concept. The closest thing you get is that you may choose your 'race' from a list on a census form.

rebelyell2006: According to the EMTs in my area, if someone refuses treatment or a trip to the hospital, they have to wait until the person is unconscious before they can do anything.

Yeah, implied consent is assumed for unconscious people when it comes to life-saving treatment.

A patient in a positive mental state has a better chance of getting healthy and recovering. In an emergency situation, tell this old bag to shut the fark up and let whatever doctor or nurse is available help her. But if not an emergency, then let her have her black doctor if it could help her recovery. Debate all day the "how" "why" and "how dare she" of her racism, but it's there, and it needs to be factored into her medical decisions.

Should have just left her on the floor for a white person to discover her. Technically, notifying someone else who could help the shriveled old racist could be considered a form of "care," and this woman clearly wanted no "care" from black people.

daveb0rg: I don't understand how her civil rights were violated. Does she have a right to care for white people?

I thought that too. Her civil rights were not violated at all.

I'm not sure it's worth the effort waking of my now-apathized shock-and-horror reaction to so many people who express glee at the prospect of someone, no matter how backwards their views, dying.

Insert "welcome to Fark" image?

Ablejack: How does the patient's contract define black? It's not like it's a black and white issue. Race does not exist in the United States by any current biological or scientific definition. Race is a self-identified, self-reported social and cultural concept. The closest thing you get is that you may choose your 'race' from a list on a census form.


Dude, that was well put.

When will we stop thinking of people as "races" and start thing of people as "we"?

UberDave: what_now:In my case, I wouldn't care if the urologist was a woman. Just get the farking stone out!!!!1!1!

/Kidney stones - you will not care who or what sees your naughty bits.

THIS. Give me morphine, stat. I don't care what colour anybody is.

satanorsanta: PeterPipersPickledPecker: "Hell-ooo, nurse!"

Yeah, and I only want my nurse to look like this.

Whatever, I have classes with these busty, bottle-blond nursing majors. I'm not pulling a sharp knees complaint here. Sure, they're fine to look at, but I'll be god damned if I want a bunch of ditzy hair-twirlers taking care of me in an emergency situation.

I don't trust their sorority asses to take care of their little yip dogs, much less a human in medical distress.

I will never forget the nurse-to-be who was trying to get her writing credit out of the way in a Greek tragedy course. She looks at the rest of the class with a self-satisfied head toss and says, "Well, the location is SYMBOLIC, because Elektra is far from the castle, and she's far from REASON."

TheGreatGildersleeve: It also says his instructions were that he "Prefers No Black CNAs.", not that he forbad them. Sounds more like Nursey was engaging in a little race-hate herself.

Racist-hate maybe, but not race-hate.

Being a racist is an action, not a race.

stonicus: I thought that too. Her civil rights were not violated at all.

That's a touchy issue. Let's say she works at a home where over 50% of the people say they don't want black caregivers. Then the company has to downsize. That could force the company to lay her off since she can't work with the majority of patients, then she can claim she was fired due to her race. Or they can keep her on staff and pay her to stand around doing nothing half the time or "busy work" and making the same money as the white people who are handling the racist patients. Tough call.

Moquary: I'm not sure it's worth the effort waking of my now-apathized shock-and-horror reaction to so many people who express glee at the prospect of someone, no matter how backwards their views, dying.

You really can't appreciate the irony of someone, who holds hateful, backwards views, actually suffering any consequences as a direct results of said views?

RedEmily: When will we stop thinking of people as "races" and start thing of people as "we"?

We and They by Rudyard Kipling

FATHER, Mother, and Me
Sister and Auntie say
All the people like us are We,
And every one else is They.
And They live over the sea,
While We live over the way,
But - would you believe it? - They look upon We
As only a sort of They !
We eat pork and beef
With cow-horn-handled knives.
They who gobble Their rice off a leaf,
Are horrified out of Their lives;
And They who live up a tree,
And feast on grubs and clay,
(Isn't it scandalous?) look upon We
As a simply disgusting They!

We shoot birds with a gun.
They stick lions with spears.
Their full-dress is un-.
We dress up to Our ears.
They like Their friends for tea.
We like Our friends to stay;
And, after all that, They look upon We
As an utterly ignorant They!

We eat kitcheny food.
We have doors that latch.
They drink milk or blood,
Under an open thatch.
We have Doctors to fee.
They have Wizards to pay.
And (impudent heathen!) They look upon We
As a quite impossible They!

All good people agree,
And all good people say,
All nice people, like Us, are We
And every one else is They:
But if you cross over the sea,
Instead of over the way,
You may end by (think of it!) looking on We
As only a sort of They !

wslush: Obligatory black nurse photo:

Turkleton!

stonicus: daveb0rg: I don't understand how her civil rights were violated. Does she have a right to care for white people?

I thought that too. Her civil rights were not violated at all.

I think she should have Rosa-Parked his racist ass, and given the patient her best care. Let the shiat fly later concerning this asinine policy.
/Do doctors or nurses there have the option to select any group of patients that they refuse to care for?

pvd021: But isn't it proper and dare I say natural, for people to die under the weight of their own stupidity? If you're in trouble and you only want a certain race to help you out of your trouble, then who am I to disagree? So long as there are no repercussion on my licensing or certification or review, I say go ahead and have a great time.


That being said, if I was ever put into a nursing home, I request only to have my meals delivered and my strolls through the park facilitated by 130lb or less women with breast that protrude further than the tip of their nose. Nice legs and face are also mandatory.

You must be thinking with your penis. If her boobs were that big, she'd fall over and take you down with her, possibly suffocating you. You could have a coronary and die whilst gasping for air between her massive bosoms.
Oh.

People have the right to be racist (morally speaking). It's not nice, but it should be legal. If someone being cared for by a private nursing home wants to specify that only whites can touch her, then she should have that right, however repulsive it may be. The nursing home should also have the right to refuse, and send her elsewhere.

what_now: If the point is patient care, shouldn't the patient be as comfortable as possible?

Actually, if the point is freedom of association, don't we get to choose who the fark we want to deal with regardless?

fark anti-discrimination laws. My property rights and, by extension, freedom of association, trumps your feelings about racism. Period.

/Doesn't date black chicks

Where are the compassionate, competent ob-gyns you guys keep talking about and where can I get one? So far, I've had:

1) An extremely rough, curt jerk who seemed to know what he was doing until he scheduled my induction for his day off.

2) Ob-gyn 1's partner, who delivered my kid brilliantly, then vanished.

3) A sweet, nice, apparently wonderful ob-gyn who babied me all through my second pregnancy, then didn't bother showing up when I phoned to say I was in labour and she promised she'd be there in twenty minutes.

4) The incompetent, soulless jerk who took over when it became clear that 3 had been kidnapped by aliens or something, who casually informed me that I needed a Caesarean, that I might very well die, and no, I couldn't have a second opinion.

5) Another round with 3 and several of her friends, who utterly failed to get my IUD installed. Oh, and one of them told me I had to let her know if something hurt, then told me to stop being a baby because there's no way that hurt.

6) The guy who got my IUD installed, then gave my coont a friendly pat the way a gearhead will pat a car's hood or a computer geek will pat a tower. Why, yes, his age did make this creepier.

7) The guy who prattled on about God, rammed his fingers into my fundus, confirmed that it hurt, and pushed harder. Probably I should not have told him my un-Godly sexual history.

It's not that I think obstetrics and gynaecology are invalid scientific or medical fields. I just want a practitioner who is compassionate, competent, and available.

stonicus: daveb0rg: I don't understand how her civil rights were violated. Does she have a right to care for white people?

I thought that too. Her civil rights were not violated at all.

Her civil rights prohibit discrimination against her based on her race, so yes, in that sense they were violated.

Paulistinian:
/Doesn't date black chicks

ftfy.

Magorn: If I read the excerpt of the decision correctly, the court distinguished this from patient specifications to see a doctor of only one gender on the grounds that the gender restriction actually served a somewhat legitimate purpose in preserving the patient's modesty. Given that, if a patient had a demonstrated history of reacting violently to people of a certain race, Then I think you could argue for that specific patient the restriction could be justified.

Not modesty, but privacy. Apparently the women doctors are going to tell everyone what we look like naked.