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(CNN)   Road crosses ruled unconstitutional. Chicken inconsolable   (cnn.com ) divider line
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19696 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Aug 2010 at 8:15 AM (6 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-08-19 12:12:17 PM  

Bootysama: correct me if I'm wrong, I thought I read road side memorials are a distraction to drivers. Distractions=bad results


Then all billboards should be removed as well - especially those electronic ones that change and look obscenely bright at night. They are distracting to be sure.

Would a compromise be to erect the religious symbol of the fallen trooper's belief? If so, a Flying Spaghetti Monster memorial would be cool.
 
2010-08-19 12:12:35 PM  

chuckufarlie: You are apparently ignorant of the fact that our government buildings and dcouments are packed with references to religion.


Luckily for use, some of them are being removed.

You can thank the Atheists for that outbreak of common sense.
 
2010-08-19 12:13:15 PM  

mark12A: Sorry boys, you've just been ruled unconstitutional....


If you look at file name of the picture you've just posted you'd know that i's a pciture of Muesse-argonne cemetary in FRANCE. Now I understand some farkers can be slightly slow, or shall we say, "tardy"; but can you explain to me what the fark the US Constitution has to do with the rule for a FRENCH cemetary?

So the only question is, are you really dumb enough not to understand this or were you deliberately obfuscating the issue with an appeal to emotion?
 
2010-08-19 12:14:51 PM  

EvilEgg: ace in your face: I know a guy who brought 2 morman kids into his house so he could try to convince them that there was no god.

Did they knock on his door to convince him to convert? If so, it was just a religious debate.


No he found them at a corner store and convinced them to his house.

pwhp_67: ace in your face: I don't know why a teacher would ever bother to address such things, but I do think if the parents base their religion on fairies then they have the right to not have their religion trampled upon at school.


Well then you're part of why this country is so farked up...


If you get to pick and choose which religions to tolerate then you have already failed. As long school is based on facts and not opinions I am sure it will be fine.
 
2010-08-19 12:15:28 PM  

chuckufarlie: You are apparently ignorant of the fact that our government buildings and dcouments are packed with references to religion.


So current violations can be used to justify future ones? Then you wonder why small meaningless violations are a problem?
 
2010-08-19 12:16:25 PM  

ace in your face: EvilEgg: ace in your face: I know a guy who brought 2 morman kids into his house so he could try to convince them that there was no god.

Did they knock on his door to convince him to convert? If so, it was just a religious debate.

No he found them at a corner store and convinced them to his house.


Funny, the police never approve when I pick up kids at the corner store.
 
2010-08-19 12:16:50 PM  

ace in your face:
2. Atheists proselytize all the time.


Of course, just to keep a balance...

OTOH I never heard of Atheists going from door to door. We obviously need to try harder!
 
2010-08-19 12:16:52 PM  

EvilEgg: Did they knock on his door to convince him to convert? If so, it was just a religious debate.


im sure they did.

my high school climbing buddies were mormons.

ace in your face: Not every christian feels that way.


find me a self-identifying christian who doesn't hold at least one of those beliefs that i cited. those were not exhaustive lists by any means either, and you still still fail in that challenge.

ace in your face: T And thank you for defending me, but leeds is on my ignore list since I don't want to get riled up by people I think are children, or who at least have the mental capacity of one.


well despite his agreement with my position in this thread i do have him farkied in my "conservative idiot" color with the comment "laissez-faire idiot, counterprotested petland protesters"

he loves puppy mills.

Duyogurt: Regarding number 2, I think you are confusing proselytizing with helping.


more precisely: proselytizing (in this context) is trying to convert someone to your faith. atheists lack faith, so by definition cannot do it.
 
2010-08-19 12:18:39 PM  

ace in your face: If you get to pick and choose which religions to tolerate then you have already failed. As long school is based on facts and not opinions I am sure it will be fine.



It's not an opinion that leprechauns don't exist.

You saying that it is makes you part of the problem...
 
2010-08-19 12:18:44 PM  

Overfiend: Would a compromise be to erect the religious symbol of the fallen trooper's belief?


no, in this situation the arrangements at National Cemetaries cannot work as each marker is individual and separate from the rest - not part of a grouping. so the casual reasonable observer cannot see that other faiths are included.
 
2010-08-19 12:20:15 PM  

pwhp_67: ace in your face: If you get to pick and choose which religions to tolerate then you have already failed. As long school is based on facts and not opinions I am sure it will be fine.


It's not an opinion that leprechauns don't exist.

You saying that it is makes you part of the problem...


indeed any "x doesn't exist" assertion should be viewed as "there is no evidence of X, therefore practically we can consider X to not exist".
 
2010-08-19 12:20:29 PM  

Pocket Ninja: It's a silly gesture completely lacking in any coherent meaning (even a religious one).


"On this spot, on this nice, long, smooth utterly straight bit of road, our offspring strangely managed to wrap his saaaaaaaafe SUV or truck around the only tree from here to the horizon. Take heed, travelers, for even God can't help you if you're stupid."
 
2010-08-19 12:20:55 PM  
Roadside memorials are generally farking stupid.

That said, I've been waiting for the End of the World which would be caused by the critical combination of religion-haters and cop-haters in this thread.

/it would be like dividing by zero
 
2010-08-19 12:21:36 PM  

ace in your face: 2. Atheists proselytize all the time. I know a guy who brought 2 morman kids into his house so he could try to convince them that there was no god.


What a fantastic personal anecdote. I can do it too:

Christians are violent all the time. I once knew this Christian girl who while ice skating deliberately knocked down a woman and kicked her a few times, and was laughing about it while she told me the story.
 
2010-08-19 12:22:47 PM  
1:Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

10: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

So, all of you Fark lawyers please tell me. Are not these two amendments really easy to understand?

It seems to me that these crosses were an action taken by a State (or in this case The People) and now the federal Government has usurped the authority granted to the states and the people by the constitution. And really, how offensive can a white memorial cross be when you zip past at 70 MPH?
 
2010-08-19 12:24:48 PM  

ace in your face: 2. Atheists proselytize all the time. I know a guy


Well, that's all the proof we needed...
 
2010-08-19 12:26:55 PM  

FilmBELOH20: Magorn: ARLINGTON DOESN'T HAVE CROSSES! See:

What are these, then?


Well the top one is the "cross of sacrifice" erected by the CANADIAN government to honor US citizens who were killed while serving in their armed forces

The Second I believe is a memorial to those lost aboard the Titanic that may actually be outside the bounds of the offical national cemetery. I don't recognize the third.

/grew up close enough to Arlingotn that it was a frequent field trip destination.
 
2010-08-19 12:27:11 PM  

MyNameIsRobertPaulson: Fark Me To Tears: Have these judges ever visited Arlington National Cemetery?

Have you?


I didn't know that.

I just looked on Google Earth and you're right, no crosses anywhere in sight. That actually makes me happy...

(Though I'm not sure how much of that is doing the right thing and how much is just some military obsession with neatness and avoiding a random mixture of different-shape headstones)
 
2010-08-19 12:27:30 PM  

Devil's Playground: And really, how offensive can a white memorial cross be when you zip past at 70 MPH?


It ain't always about who is or isn't offended.
 
2010-08-19 12:27:40 PM  
I'm agnostic and I actively dislike most if not all organized religions.

However, I think Christmas is a nice tradition and I think that erecting memorial crosses like the ones in TFA is fine.

DIAF, atheist dbags.
 
2010-08-19 12:27:50 PM  

Devil's Playground: 1:Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

10: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

So, all of you Fark lawyers please tell me. Are not these two amendments really easy to understand?

It seems to me that these crosses were an action taken by a State (or in this case The People) and now the federal Government has usurped the authority granted to the states and the people by the constitution. And really, how offensive can a white memorial cross be when you zip past at 70 MPH?


Wanna know how I know you've either never read or don't understand Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli or Thomas Jefferson's letters to the Danbury Baptists?
 
2010-08-19 12:28:50 PM  

MyNameIsRobertPaulson:
If I die in a road accident I want my family to erect a 20' high sculpture of a hand giving the finger to passing motorists with a large engraving clearly visible from the road saying "FARK YOU".

This is basically in accordance with my beliefs.


I'll support you 100% in that. I'll even make a donation so it can be done in solid marble.
 
2010-08-19 12:29:24 PM  

Devil's Playground: It seems to me that these crosses were an action taken by a State (or in this case The People) and now the federal Government has usurped the authority granted to the states and the people by the constitution. And really, how offensive can a white memorial cross be when you zip past at 70 MPH?


*sigh*

any action prohibited to the federal congress is in turn prohibited to the states.


I hereby propose a new logical fallacy: argumentum ad tentherism. Argument from Tentherism. it's a breed of "argument from false premises".

Hint: the tenth amendment doesn't mean anything Tenthers claim it means. it's a tautology, it's redundant.
 
2010-08-19 12:31:01 PM  

Jument: I'm agnostic and I actively dislike most if not all organized religions.

However, I think Christmas is a nice tradition and I think that erecting memorial crosses like the ones in TFA is fine.

DIAF, atheist dbags.


The government of Utah was violating the constitution by endorsing religion.

DIAF anti-american dbag.

zarberg: Wanna know how I know you've either never read or don't understand Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli or Thomas Jefferson's letters to the Danbury Baptists?


hell i farking posted Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli earlier in this thread!
 
2010-08-19 12:32:38 PM  

Devil's Playground: 1:Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

10: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

So, all of you Fark lawyers please tell me. Are not these two amendments really easy to understand?

It seems to me that these crosses were an action taken by a State (or in this case The People) and now the federal Government has usurped the authority granted to the states and the people by the constitution. And really, how offensive can a white memorial cross be when you zip past at 70 MPH?



from the Fourteenth Amendment: "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
 
2010-08-19 12:33:36 PM  

Kazan: hell i farking posted Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli earlier in this thread!


I know! I'm so proud of you, too. You made it onto my favorites list - a nice shade of "I generally like what you say" green.
 
2010-08-19 12:36:46 PM  

Jument: However, I think Christmas is a nice tradition and I think that erecting memorial crosses like the ones in TFA is fine.



Then you pay for them and tell them to quit putting the state seal on them...
 
2010-08-19 12:39:29 PM  

zarberg: Kazan: hell i farking posted Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli earlier in this thread!

I know! I'm so proud of you, too. You made it onto my favorites list - a nice shade of "I generally like what you say" green.


why thank you.
 
2010-08-19 12:41:59 PM  

CBFLATLINE: FARK IT!!!

I have to work on the holidays (Christmas, Easter and so on) I want to see the atheists work as well on the Holidays that the government has instituted.

NO MORE FREE RIDES, MOTHERfarkERS!!!

You are not being persecuted, you're taking advantage of the system!!!

Yeah, yeah, yeah...

Not very Christian of me.

GFY!!!


Another persecuted Christian; truly, he will be remembered as a martyr.

zarberg: Also ... it's not right next to ground 0. It's over 2 minutes walking at a brisk pace from the very edge of ground zero.


Also, the community-center-with-a-mosque-in-it

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: So what if that's what some would view it as, that's not what it's meant to be. Atheists don't like it when Christians force their views on them. Why do atheists insist on using the court system to force their views on those who believe there is a God?


Are atheists saying they should put monuments to atheism instead? Are atheists saying that no religious displays should be allowed anywhere? Are you using your brain right now?
 
2010-08-19 12:42:47 PM  
Man, my post got double-farked there. Hahaha god damnit. Ballsack.
 
2010-08-19 12:43:12 PM  

Jument: I'm agnostic and I actively dislike most if not all organized religions.

However, I think Christmas is a nice tradition and I think that erecting memorial crosses like the ones in TFA is fine.

DIAF, atheist dbags.


LOL, guess /who/ called Christmas "a popish festival with no biblical justification" then?
 
2010-08-19 12:44:16 PM  
Good. that's what cemeteries are for. how many trashy memorials to the dead are really needed? If someone (a policeman, in this case) got killed on my front lawn, I wouldn't let anyone erect a friggin "memorial" of any kind on it.

Real-life example: a kid died down the street from my house 4 years ago; he was speeding and wrapped his car around a tree at a turn. So the kids friends and presumably family made the tree their shrine by leaving toys, flowers, books, and T-shirts stapled to this tree. Four years of NH weather later, the crap looks like someone dumped their garbage on the side of the road.

Celebrate their lives, not their deaths, you inconsiderate littering douchebags.
 
2010-08-19 12:47:51 PM  
img24.imageshack.us

"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the Trinity. It is the mere 'Abracadabra' of the mountebanks calling themselves the 'priests of Jesus.'"

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Adrian Van der Kemp, 30 July, 1816
 
2010-08-19 12:48:53 PM  

Lurking Fear: Celebrate their lives, not their deaths, you inconsiderate littering douchebags.



Why can't Americans do this? Everything in this farked up country is centered squarely on the negative. Funerals are depressing as hell, cemeteries are just about the dumbest thing I've ever heard of, and every person who doesn't die in their sleep in their 90's needs a farking memorial.

Get over yourselves people...
 
2010-08-19 12:49:01 PM  

Attila the Bun: The only reason I can think of to put crosses or other markers along a highway (to commemorate deaths) is to remind drivers just how dangerous the highways other drivers are.


Fixed that - the one closet to me "honors" a teenager whose brother killed him because he failed to yield at a left turn and got creamed by oncoming traffic.

I'm not even sure if there's a cross - I just know it looks trashy and at one time included a hockey stick.

The fact that it's now a left turn on arrow only serves as a reminder of that kid's stupidity too.
 
2010-08-19 12:50:09 PM  
So, do Hindus and Buddhists get Road Swastikas?
 
2010-08-19 12:54:25 PM  

Kazan: EvilEgg: Did they knock on his door to convince him to convert? If so, it was just a religious debate.

im sure they did.

my high school climbing buddies were mormons.

ace in your face: Not every christian feels that way.

find me a self-identifying christian who doesn't hold at least one of those beliefs that i cited. those were not exhaustive lists by any means either, and you still still fail in that challenge.

ace in your face: T And thank you for defending me, but leeds is on my ignore list since I don't want to get riled up by people I think are children, or who at least have the mental capacity of one.

well despite his agreement with my position in this thread i do have him farkied in my "conservative idiot" color with the comment "laissez-faire idiot, counterprotested petland protesters"

he loves puppy mills.

Duyogurt: Regarding number 2, I think you are confusing proselytizing with helping.

more precisely: proselytizing (in this context) is trying to convert someone to your faith. atheists lack faith, so by definition cannot do it.


I can't magic my friends or family through the internet for you. Sorry. There are plenty of Christians who are liberals, and who believe in the separation of church and state. I am sure you can find some liberal christians with a quick google. I see from your profile you live in a "flyover state" so that probably explains why you don't come across as many liberal Christians as I do in Seattle. Every gay pride parade, pro choice rally, or anti war event I have gone to has included christians, and any christian I know in Seattle is fairly liberal. Simply believing in god, and jesus, doesn't make you a hate monger. Proselytizing by the definition I am running on means to convert to ones beliefs or opinions religious or not.

/puppy mills suck
 
2010-08-19 12:55:12 PM  
wait a second...
farm4.static.flickr.com
...those sneaky wafer-munchers!
 
2010-08-19 12:58:17 PM  

mud_shark: The fact that it's now a left turn on arrow only serves as a reminder of that kid's stupidity too.



And really, that's the only memorial that intersection needed...
 
2010-08-19 12:59:55 PM  
I just stopped by to say I like the headline. I'm sorry, I'm interrupting a religion flame war you say? My mistake. Carry on.
 
2010-08-19 01:00:03 PM  

Gato Negro: Christmas is a federal holiday. Does that make it unconstitutional?

Sounds like 'endorsing a religion' to me...


The vast majority of people want Christmas off from work and school. And since the government isn't forcing people to worship or pray on Christmas, then it's not an endorcement, IMO.

There's being flexible and accomodating, and there's prostilyzing.


I may have misspelled that last word...
 
2010-08-19 01:02:09 PM  
To all of you who answered my inquiry with such snideness, I want to assure you I am not trolling.

I am not a constitutional scholar, therefore the question was simply that, a question. No, I have never read Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli or Thomas Jefferson's letters to the Danbury Baptists, but thanks to your replies, I now will.
 
2010-08-19 01:02:25 PM  

Kazan: any action prohibited to the federal congress is in turn prohibited to the states.


That isn't necessarily true. Some powers are also expressly prohibited to the states, including sponsoring or endorsing a religion, but states do retain powers that the federal government does not.
 
2010-08-19 01:07:06 PM  

Kazan: hell i farking posted Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli earlier in this thread!


You're my new Fark hero.

The whole "In God We Trust" thing came much later, as a result of the insidious Christians worming their way into Government. Harmless, indeed.
 
2010-08-19 01:07:10 PM  
DarnoKonrad:
If you want secularize the cross as well, you're going to get even more backlash from Christians.


I came in here to suggest we do just that. We atheists need to unite and gather around the symbol of the cross. Much like the Christians co-opted this symbol from the Egyptians and pagans or whatever, we must take the cross away from the Christians. I'm thinking we could have rainbow crosses for the queer atheists. We could make cross bongs for the pothead atheists. Hell, we could even have crossbows for the hunting atheists. The options truly are endless. Take up your cross today!
 
2010-08-19 01:08:07 PM  

Gato Negro: Speaking as a reformed liberal (yes, it's true), I know that people CAN change... (new window)


Were you as much of a judgmental, uppity, belittling jerk when you were a liberal?
 
2010-08-19 01:08:14 PM  

jxb465: I just stopped by to say I like the headline. I'm sorry, I'm interrupting a religion flame war you say? My mistake. Carry on.


Nah, it's not a full flame war. There's basically only one troll here- a knocked up magic-believer who tries very hard to pretend that the rules of logic can be bent to allow for her small-minded view of the world.

Yes, "ace in your face" I am talking about you.
 
2010-08-19 01:09:33 PM  

ace in your face: There are plenty of Christians who are liberals, and who believe in the separation of church and state


that doesn't mean they don't commit any of those above. any of them even liberal Christians commit the transgressions against mental/relationship health.

ace in your face: I see from your profile you live in a "flyover state" so that probably explains why you don't come across as many liberal Christians as I do in Seattle.


Seattle is demographically 1/3rd atheist. it's also where i want to get a job and move to.

ace in your face: Every gay pride parade, pro choice rally, or anti war event I have gone to has included christians, and any christian I know in Seattle is fairly liberal.


yeah.. you're missing the point. where i said that they might not share all those cited things, and there are things that i didn't cite i could add. but they will all have at least one of them.

ace in your face: Simply believing in god, and jesus, doesn't make you a hate monger.


and i didn't say that, don't misrepresent my statements.

it does, necessarily, make you irrational. irrational individuals are a danger to any democracy.

ShillinTheVillain: That isn't necessarily true. Some powers are also expressly prohibited to the states, including sponsoring or endorsing a religion, but states do retain powers that the federal government does not.


you know what i meant, nitpick :D
 
2010-08-19 01:11:30 PM  

ttintagel: There are atheists in Texas?


Are you serious?

You never heard of Madalyn Murray O'Hair?

She founded this group - in Texas. It's been around for decades.

You know, all this bigotry between states - even if it's all meant in fun - is quite tiring.

It's okay to make fun of Florida or New Jersey, etc.....but say one word about a country (well, if that country is Mexico anyway) and you're a ZOMGRACIST!!!!!!

Get a clue.
 
2010-08-19 01:12:09 PM  

100 Watt Walrus: Gato Negro: Speaking as a reformed liberal (yes, it's true), I know that people CAN change... (new window)

Were you as much of a judgmental, uppity, belittling jerk when you were a liberal?


he was never a liberal, no matter what he claims. he never hand the mindset of one if he became what he is now.
 
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