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(CNN)   Road crosses ruled unconstitutional. Chicken inconsolable   (cnn.com) divider line 641
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19689 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Aug 2010 at 8:15 AM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-08-19 09:28:05 AM  
miscreant: ace in your face: Just like a militant atheist to attack anyone who points out their view is equally illogical...

You know how I can tell you haven't taken any classes in logic?



Know how I know you don't know anything about logical fallacies? Both ideologies require a logical fallacy for belief. Can you name them? They actually fall into several logical fallacies so that should help you get started.
 
2010-08-19 09:28:10 AM  
Rapmaster2000: Oldiron_79: Rapmaster2000: Oldiron_79: ace in your face: Leeds: ace in your face: I am just as sick of evangelical atheists proselytizing as I am of evangelical christians doing it.

Then wake up and stop believing in magic.

You have no more ability to prove that god doesn't exist than christians can prove that he does. STFU and believe what you want but stop proselytizing. You are all annoying.

THIS

Exactly, none of you can prove that I'm not controlling your lives. I made you do that thing you just did. So worship me.

Why don't you make me? Plague of locusts, river of blood, flaming hail from the sky, Come on, just look at the olde testament if you need ideas.

Because I don't feel like it. I'm omnipotent. I'm the only thing protecting you right now. You're lucky you have me.


Do you happen to sell medallions/amulets that will allow some of your invisible angels to circle me, give me peace and guidance and make me choose correct lottery ticket numbers? Do you accept paypal? :-)
 
2010-08-19 09:28:11 AM  
habitual_masticator: If someone in my family died on the roadside I would not need some stupid half assed memorial to mark the spot. My eyes will find it and my heart will break every time I go by regardless.

Oh, and HOTY candidate you got there, subby. +eleventy


My cousin exits the highway to detour 6 miles around the marker his parents put up at his sister's crash site. She died there 12 years ago and he still can't bring himself to drive by there and be reminded of that spot by thier marker.
 
2010-08-19 09:29:09 AM  
I'm amazed by how many bad christian drivers there are. DAMN. I mean, I don't think I've ever seen a roadside memorial sign for a jew, or muslim, or atheist, or buddhist, or sikh.



/maybe churches should start giving driving lessons?
 
2010-08-19 09:30:07 AM  
1nsanilicious: WTF is with you Athiests? Are the crosses hurtung you, poor little baby? Are you jealous that Athiests don't have a symbol of remembrance so you have to destroy others?

I dont care that Athiesm was crammed down my throat for years in public schools.

I think it's time we viewed Athiesm as a religion and start suing them for shiat.

I wonder what are some thing to sue Atheists for?


How has athy been crammed down your throat at school?
 
2010-08-19 09:30:17 AM  
Theaetetus: ace in your face: Theaetetus: ace in your face: You have no more ability to prove that god doesn't exist than christians can prove that he does. STFU and believe what you want but stop proselytizing.

Sure, as soon as christians stop trying to pass laws and constitutional amendments taking away the civil rights of minorities based on what their holy book or religious leaders say.

Cause I endorsed that right? I didn't say they were both equally annoying right?

Right, you didn't endorse it. I'm merely explaining why, in spite of your fervent prayers, atheists aren't going to STFU until religious people stop trying to pass bigoted laws. You want atheists to STFU and keep their lack of religion to themselves? Then fight religious bigotry.


Find me in a thread about religious bigotry- I have never endorsed it either. If the state is paying for crosses then its inappropriate, but if they are privately owned and maintained it shouldn't be an issue.
 
2010-08-19 09:31:05 AM  
I agree with this ruling but not the reasoning:
It's public land and they are a distraction.

A private entity could purchase the land but then it would still fall under regulations of a roadside sign and its very nature is distracting enough to increase the chance of roadway accidents.

If they purchased the land a modest roadside plaque, perhaps facing away from the road, would be an appropriate solution.
 
2010-08-19 09:31:41 AM  
ace in your face: Find me in a thread about religious bigotry- I have never endorsed it either.

You're publicly calling for people opposing religious bigotry to "STFU". While not a direct endorsement, you're certainly in the camp.
 
2010-08-19 09:33:28 AM  
Shakin_Haitian: 1nsanilicious: WTF is with you Athiests? Are the crosses hurtung you, poor little baby? Are you jealous that Athiests don't have a symbol of remembrance so you have to destroy others?

I dont care that Athiesm was crammed down my throat for years in public schools.

I think it's time we viewed Athiesm as a religion and start suing them for shiat.

I wonder what are some thing to sue Atheists for?

How has athy been crammed down your throat at school?


I'd assume more things would be crammed down a young man's throat at Catholic school than public.
 
2010-08-19 09:34:18 AM  
Leeds:

Do you happen to sell medallions/amulets that will allow some of your invisible angels to circle me, give me peace and guidance and make me choose correct lottery ticket numbers? Do you accept paypal? :-)


Yes. No one gets into the afterlife without a medallion. And you want that afterlife because unlike lame Christian heaven, we have free cable.

We accept AMEX, Visa, and MasterCard. There's a 3% discount for cash. No self-respecting god accepts Discover.
 
2010-08-19 09:34:31 AM  
Theaetetus: ace in your face: Find me in a thread about religious bigotry- I have never endorsed it either.

You're publicly calling for people opposing religious bigotry to "STFU". While not a direct endorsement, you're certainly in the camp.


I don't think a privately owned cross by the side of the road is religious bigotry. The fact that Atheists want to fight roadside memorials seems petty to me. Like someone said upthread, call me when they put one in front of a courthouse.
 
2010-08-19 09:34:45 AM  
MyNameIsRobertPaulson: Fark Me To Tears: Have these judges ever visited Arlington National Cemetery?

Have you?


My Grandfather is burried under one of these unconstituional crosses in Nromandy.

brianakira.files.wordpress.com
 
2010-08-19 09:36:33 AM  
Nobody notices them 90 percent of the time anyway. What they really ought to do is leave the cars that the people died in, sitting at those spots. Complete with the glass etc. That'll catch the eyes.
 
2010-08-19 09:37:55 AM  
skinny-lil-b: I'm amazed by how many bad christian drivers there are. DAMN. I mean, I don't think I've ever seen a roadside memorial sign for a jew, or muslim, or atheist, or buddhist, or sikh.



/maybe churches should start giving driving lessons?


I think that most jews, muslims, athiests, buddhist and sikh(s?) are not by nature attention whores like many evangeical christians are. Their belief system is advertized on billboards and t-shirts, would you expect any less from a cult of the golden calf?
 
2010-08-19 09:37:57 AM  
jayg22: My Grandfather is burried under one of these unconstituional crosses in Nromandy.

I didn't know Normandy was part of the US.
 
2010-08-19 09:38:12 AM  
jayg22: MyNameIsRobertPaulson: Fark Me To Tears: Have these judges ever visited Arlington National Cemetery?

Have you?

My Grandfather is burried under one of these unconstituional crosses in Nromandy.


My condolences.
 
2010-08-19 09:40:01 AM  
jayg22: My Grandfather is burried under one of these unconstituional crosses in Nromandy.

France follows the US Constitution now?
 
2010-08-19 09:41:00 AM  
jayg22: MyNameIsRobertPaulson: Fark Me To Tears: Have these judges ever visited Arlington National Cemetery?

Have you?

My Grandfather is burried under one of these unconstituional crosses in Nromandy.


Can you please point to Arlington National Cemetary on a map? Also, can you please find Normandy on a map? Are they in the same place? Are they in the same country? Are the on the same Continent?
 
2010-08-19 09:41:17 AM  
Rapmaster2000: Farking libs. No personal responsibility.

Man you suck at Fark.
 
2010-08-19 09:41:59 AM  
jayg22: My Grandfather is burried under one of these unconstituional crosses in Nromandy.

There's no such thing as an "Unconstitutional Cross in Normandy," as the Constitution has no jurisdiction in France.

In America, however, where the Constitution does have power, is where Arlington National Cemetery is located. How many memorial markers are crosses there?
 
2010-08-19 09:43:28 AM  
ace in your face: miscreant: ace in your face: Just like a militant atheist to attack anyone who points out their view is equally illogical...

You know how I can tell you haven't taken any classes in logic?


Know how I know you don't know anything about logical fallacies? Both ideologies require a logical fallacy for belief. Can you name them? They actually fall into several logical fallacies so that should help you get started.


I'm really interested in what logical fallacies being an atheist entails.
 
2010-08-19 09:44:52 AM  
ace in your face: Know how I know you don't know anything about logical fallacies? Both ideologies require a logical fallacy for belief. Can you name them? They actually fall into several logical fallacies so that should help you get started.

Only if you're assuming atheists are making a POSITIVE claim that there is no god. Which most atheists are not. If you want to narrow your criticism to atheists who make that positive claim, then you're right, they are making a positive claim that is illogical, though I would argue it's not even close to "equally illogical"... by narrowing it to those atheists, you're also ruling out 99% of the people who call themselves atheist though.

If somebody claims there is a god, then they are the ones making a positive claim, and the burden of proof is on them. It is not "equally illogical" for a person to disbelieve the claim until proof is presented. Use any other imaginary creature, Sagan's invisible dragon in the garage for example, is it "equally illogical" to believe in it as it is to disbelieve in it?

Acting as if belief or disbelief in a god are on equal footing only even slightly makes sense if the atheist is making a positive claim, which most are not.
 
2010-08-19 09:46:25 AM  
ShillinTheVillain: ttintagel: There are atheists in Texas?

Yes. And if the lore is to be believed, they're probably bigger than the average atheist.


this is a very strong play.
 
2010-08-19 09:47:01 AM  
username101: ace in your face: miscreant: ace in your face: Just like a militant atheist to attack anyone who points out their view is equally illogical...

You know how I can tell you haven't taken any classes in logic?


Know how I know you don't know anything about logical fallacies? Both ideologies require a logical fallacy for belief. Can you name them? They actually fall into several logical fallacies so that should help you get started.

I'm really interested in what logical fallacies being an atheist entails.


im not sure, but i think its got something to do with kirk cameron and bananas.
 
2010-08-19 09:47:08 AM  
username101: Mormons don't even USE crosses, making it even more baffling.

According to a report produced by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life the self-identified religious affiliations of Utahns over the age of 18 as of 2008 are:[7]

Latter Day Saint movement 58% (labeled as Mormon on survey - only 41.6% are active members)
Unaffiliated 16%
Catholic 10%
Evangelicals 7%
Mainline Protestants 6%
Black Protestant Churches 1%
No Answer 1%
Other Faiths 1%
Buddhism Eastern Orthodox .5%
Hinduism .5%
Islam .5%
Jehovah's Witnesses .5%
Judaism .5%
Non denominational .5%
Other World Religions .5%
Margin of error +/- 6%
(new window)

There are lots of Mormons in Utah. Mormonism is central to Utah's history. But to say that Utah is a "Mormon state" is a stereotype. And the percentage of Utahns who are Mormon has been dropping steadily in recent years.

The same people who say or imply that Utah is a "Mormon state" would never say that Massachussetts a "Puritan state." Utah has a constitution and is one of the United States, and so falls under the United States Constitution. You can live there and not be Mormon, and you won't be discriminated against. Most Utah Mormons are ordinary people. Hard working, polite, clean, courteous, helpful, and friendly. Actually, come to think of it, they may be abnormal for Americans in these regards. They are largely conservative (in the contemporary meaning of the word), but that's their business. I wonder if you could say that Massachusettsians are generally hard working, polite, clean, courteous, helpful, and friendly?
 
2010-08-19 09:47:22 AM  
Here's some so you can see the relative size.

i37.tinypic.com

i33.tinypic.com
 
2010-08-19 09:47:37 AM  
I think we should all take a brief pause from our beloved religious flamewar to consider the topic of the article, the inevitable direction its conversation would take, and what subby managed to do with the headline. I know I enjoyed it.

/as you were, religion- and atheist-haters
 
2010-08-19 09:48:42 AM  
ace in your face: I don't think a privately owned cross by the side of the road is religious bigotry. The fact that Atheists want to fight roadside memorials seems petty to me. Like someone said upthread, call me when they put one in front of a courthouse.

I'd like to see a little experiment done. Make a bunch of fake memorial signs that all include messages like "there is no god" and post them around at random spots on the local highways, and see what happens.
 
2010-08-19 09:49:50 AM  
i.imgur.com
Why would Christians want to put a cross to mark the spot where God killed the Utah State Trooper? Why would God kill the trooper for doing his job? Why do people worship a person who would do this? It is crazy.
 
2010-08-19 09:50:04 AM  
miscreant: ace in your face: Know how I know you don't know anything about logical fallacies? Both ideologies require a logical fallacy for belief. Can you name them? They actually fall into several logical fallacies so that should help you get started.

Only if you're assuming atheists are making a POSITIVE claim that there is no god. Which most atheists are not. If you want to narrow your criticism to atheists who make that positive claim, then you're right, they are making a positive claim that is illogical, though I would argue it's not even close to "equally illogical"... by narrowing it to those atheists, you're also ruling out 99% of the people who call themselves atheist though.

If somebody claims there is a god, then they are the ones making a positive claim, and the burden of proof is on them. It is not "equally illogical" for a person to disbelieve the claim until proof is presented. Use any other imaginary creature, Sagan's invisible dragon in the garage for example, is it "equally illogical" to believe in it as it is to disbelieve in it?

Acting as if belief or disbelief in a god are on equal footing only even slightly makes sense if the atheist is making a positive claim, which most are not.


Evangelical Atheists are the ones I am talking about, who actively claim "there is no god" which would be a positive claim. I have no issue with people not believing in god, I just don't like people who absolutely say "there is" or "there isn't" with no sort of proof other than their appeal to popularity/tradition/belief etc.
 
2010-08-19 09:50:36 AM  
Theaetetus: jayg22: My Grandfather is burried under one of these unconstituional crosses in Nromandy.
I didn't know Normandy was part of the US.


That part will be to me. Thankyou to your Grandfather.
 
2010-08-19 09:51:01 AM  
Dancin_In_Anson: Rapmaster2000: Farking libs. No personal responsibility.

Man you suck at Fark.


Please. You just don't like your tired talking points turned against you. Perhaps if you thought with your head and not your heart you would be able to come up with some better material.

But all you have is insults. And I think that's just sad.
 
2010-08-19 09:51:23 AM  
Epicedion: Make a bunch of fake memorial signs that all include messages like "there is no god" and post them around at random spots on the local highways, and see what happens.


Liberals should do just that, in the muslim countries that they defend so vigorously.
 
2010-08-19 09:51:31 AM  
I'm really glad we're working on the important things that are wrong with our country instead of being whiny little douchebags about little things that really don't bother anyone.

So many people have died because of these little crosses. It's about time that someone did something about it.
 
2010-08-19 09:52:53 AM  
Epicedion: ace in your face: I don't think a privately owned cross by the side of the road is religious bigotry. The fact that Atheists want to fight roadside memorials seems petty to me. Like someone said upthread, call me when they put one in front of a courthouse.

I'd like to see a little experiment done. Make a bunch of fake memorial signs that all include messages like "there is no god" and post them around at random spots on the local highways, and see what happens.


see that to me is just attention whoring. Now if you put up a roadside memorial with an A for an atheist that died then you might have some sort of argument.
 
2010-08-19 09:53:20 AM  
Gato Negro: Liberals should do just that, in the muslim countries that they defend so vigorously.

Did you just have a stroke or something?
 
2010-08-19 09:54:32 AM  
frenchcheesemuseum: Oh for f*cks sake there are so many other humanitarian issues that people can put their energy into. I've always thought highway crosses serve a valuable purpose. THEY REMIND PEOPLE TO SLOW THE F*CK DOWN AND PAY ATTENTION WHILE DRIVING.

If only there was a sign that told drivers to slow the f*ck down, one that was white, like the crosses, but nondenominational, rectangular would be the proper shape, I think. Preferably, they'd just say "speed limit" and a number of miles per hour that was considered safe. Maybe we ought to get the DoT to put those up instead of crosses, would that work for you?
 
2010-08-19 09:55:38 AM  
news.lavenderliberal.com
 
2010-08-19 09:55:44 AM  
g4lt: frenchcheesemuseum: Oh for f*cks sake there are so many other humanitarian issues that people can put their energy into. I've always thought highway crosses serve a valuable purpose. THEY REMIND PEOPLE TO SLOW THE F*CK DOWN AND PAY ATTENTION WHILE DRIVING.

If only there was a sign that told drivers to slow the f*ck down, one that was white, like the crosses, but nondenominational, rectangular would be the proper shape, I think. Preferably, they'd just say "speed limit" and a number of miles per hour that was considered safe. Maybe we ought to get the DoT to put those up instead of crosses, would that work for you?


Yeah but everyone knows thy lie about speed limits.
 
2010-08-19 09:56:00 AM  
In our area, private parties put up these roadside memorials whenever someone dies in a car wreck. So, anytime somebody falls off their roof and dies do you put one of these in the yard? If Grandma dies in the living room, do you erect a cross to mark the spot? I understand these people are grieving, but when Joe public does this, it is just an attempt at getting attention. They have a great place for memorials- GRAVEYARDS.
 
2010-08-19 09:56:21 AM  
cybrwzrd: Can you please point to Arlington National Cemetary on a map? Also, can you please find Normandy on a map? Are they in the same place? Are they in the same country? Are the on the same Continent?

The graves at Normandy are on American soil.
 
2010-08-19 09:57:53 AM  
mamoru: jayg22: My Grandfather is burried under one of these unconstituional crosses in Nromandy.

France follows the US Constitution now?


Isn't Normandy American Cemetery and Memorial US territory? IIRC France conceded the land to the US. Not saying that those crosses are unconstitutional or even that the constitution applies there.
 
2010-08-19 09:58:19 AM  
ace in your face: see that to me is just attention whoring. Now if you put up a roadside memorial with an A for an atheist that died then you might have some sort of argument.

I don't have an argument, though I see how you could be confused. The word is "experiment."

Unfortunately for that to work, atheism would have to have its own symbol, which it doesn't. I think the American Atheists have the A with the atom-y stuff around it, but you could hardly say they're representative (and it's not like most people would recognize the symbol anyway). Since virtually everyone who sees a religious cross see it as a symbol for Jesus, you'd have to be a little more explicit for the experiment to really work. A message like "There is no god for you to be with, but you live on in our memories" would get the point across without being too hammy.
 
2010-08-19 09:58:43 AM  
ttintagel: habitual_masticator: AaronK: How come there's no Star of David markers?

because christians are the worst drivers

Yeah, they're always letting that Jesus guy take the wheel.


Being born in Israel does technically make him asian. And old.
 
2010-08-19 09:59:09 AM  
Nattering Nabob: In our area, private parties put up these roadside memorials whenever someone dies in a car wreck. So, anytime somebody falls off their roof and dies do you put one of these in the yard? If Grandma dies in the living room, do you erect a cross to mark the spot? I understand these people are grieving, but when Joe public does this, it is just an attempt at getting attention. They have a great place for memorials- GRAVEYARDS.

Most of the ones I have seen are from drunk driving accidents so they are there not so much as a memorial for the dead, but as an example to the living. There are official highway markers in WA with the same thing (no cross on the highway marker) that have the persons picture, name, and when they were killed by the drunk driver.
 
2010-08-19 09:59:39 AM  
g4lt: frenchcheesemuseum: Oh for f*cks sake there are so many other humanitarian issues that people can put their energy into. I've always thought highway crosses serve a valuable purpose. THEY REMIND PEOPLE TO SLOW THE F*CK DOWN AND PAY ATTENTION WHILE DRIVING.

If only there was a sign that told drivers to slow the f*ck down, one that was white, like the crosses, but nondenominational, rectangular would be the proper shape, I think. Preferably, they'd just say "speed limit" and a number of miles per hour that was considered safe. Maybe we ought to get the DoT to put those up instead of crosses, would that work for you?


I was thinking a yellow triangle with black lettering would be better. You could perhaps write the name of the hazard on them. Maybe we could use both to really illustrate the point.
 
2010-08-19 10:00:23 AM  
Next thing you know the Mormoms will be building a mosque next to the highway patrol building.
 
2010-08-19 10:02:26 AM  
Epicedion: ace in your face: see that to me is just attention whoring. Now if you put up a roadside memorial with an A for an atheist that died then you might have some sort of argument.

I don't have an argument, though I see how you could be confused. The word is "experiment."

Unfortunately for that to work, atheism would have to have its own symbol, which it doesn't. I think the American Atheists have the A with the atom-y stuff around it, but you could hardly say they're representative (and it's not like most people would recognize the symbol anyway). Since virtually everyone who sees a religious cross see it as a symbol for Jesus, you'd have to be a little more explicit for the experiment to really work. A message like "There is no god for you to be with, but you live on in our memories" would get the point across without being too hammy.


I don't really understand why you would put "there is no god" rather than just, "you will live on in our memories". I mean, Christians don't put "you believed in god so you will go to heaven unlike the atheists" on their signs... This is what I am talking about, believe what you believe, but don't condemn others. Its not that hard.
 
2010-08-19 10:02:44 AM  
EvilEgg: They are also a distraction, drivers do not need more distractions along the roadside.

You're kidding, right? A small cross by the side of the road is a "distraction"?

What's your opinion on fenceposts, or fire hydrants, or parked cars, or coffee shops, or trees, or pedestrians, or stop signs, or streetlights?

If that's all it takes to distract you, then you shouldn't drive. Heaven help you when you come across one of those giant multicolor flashing video billboards (which ARE an annoying distraction, especially at night or in the rain...but they still don't make me crash).
 
2010-08-19 10:03:22 AM  
Pocket Ninja: I do not understand, at all, the impulse to mark the exact spot where a loved one died.

Obviously it's to warn people of the 替死鬼, "death-replacing ghost". When someone dies in an accident their angry soul hangs around and can't get to heaven unless they kill someone else to take their place.
 
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