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(Some Guy)   Good: NASCAR Hall of Fame on target to draw 400,000 visitors in its first year. Bad: promised city if they put up $200 million to build it that it would draw 800,000   (thatsracin.com) divider line 46
    More: Dumbass, NASCAR Hall of Fame, NASCAR, Hall of Fames, street festival, race cars  
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874 clicks; posted to Sports » on 09 Aug 2010 at 8:53 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



46 Comments   (+0 »)
   

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2010-08-09 03:58:06 PM  
The other 400,000 were just confused because they had to turn right to get to it.
 
2010-08-09 06:23:54 PM  
And their attendance would have been any better in Kansas City?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2010-08-09 07:31:35 PM  
There is a volleyball hall of fame in Holyoke, Mass. I wonder if the city put up millions to build it. It is a little way up the Connecticut River from the Seuss memorial in Springfield, which the city got as a gift from the feds who had too much money that decade.
 
2010-08-09 08:05:49 PM  
TWO HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS? Does the NASCAR Hall of Fame orbit Mars, or something?
 
2010-08-09 08:57:30 PM  
They should have put it in Cleveland. Northeast Ohio is Hall of Fame territory.

http://www.clevelandstyle.com/
 
2010-08-09 08:58:18 PM  
The derp is strong here today.

Link (new window)
 
2010-08-09 08:59:28 PM  
ecmoRandomNumbers: TWO HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS? Does the NASCAR Hall of Fame orbit Mars, or something?

It's downtown. The land alone is mega expensive.

At the same time, it being downtown makes it hard to get to. It's not near any of the race shops, it's hard to get to, and not really anywhere where NASCAR fans would go to normally. If they had put it somewhere near Charlotte Motor Speedway, I'm guessing the draw would be bigger.

Still, if you're a race fan, you need to see the place.
 
2010-08-09 08:59:36 PM  
Hopefully it'll be easier for people to get to the HoF once the trolley gets put in. Then we can start making back the money we invested!

Or, to put it a different way, HOLY shiat IS CHARLOTTE RETARDED.
 
2010-08-09 08:59:56 PM  
Whoa I handle the accounts receivable for that building. I didn't know it was NASCARs hall of fame though.
 
2010-08-09 09:00:18 PM  
Who knew a quonset hut was so expensive
 
2010-08-09 09:04:05 PM  
Haven't you guys ever watched Springer? Those folks multiply like jackrabbits. They'll have 800,000 in no time.
 
2010-08-09 09:05:37 PM  
I'm so glad NASCAR was a passing fad.
 
2010-08-09 09:07:39 PM  
Of course when that promise was made we weren't in the middle of a recession and people had extra money to spend on travel. But don't let that get in the way of the derp.
 
2010-08-09 09:33:45 PM  
DoBeDoBeDo: Of course when that promise was made we weren't in the middle of a recession and people had extra money to spend on travel. But don't let that get in the way of the derp.

I added you to my favorites only cuz you made the most sense of anyone in this thread.

And the NASCAR haters can EABOD!
 
2010-08-09 09:50:18 PM  
These sorts of investments almost never pay off except when politicians use magic math, e.g., ignoring the impact of using the money for something else or, egads Batman!, the impact of lowering taxes.

But, hey, if Charlot..tins..tites..type-people want to provide a public good, more power to them. I'll drop in someday when I have to (gack! gack!) be in Charlotte anyway.
 
2010-08-09 09:55:57 PM  
yequalsy: These sorts of investments almost never pay off except when politicians use magic math, e.g., ignoring the impact of using the money for something else or, egads Batman!, the impact of lowering taxes.

But, hey, if Charlot..tins..tites..type-people want to provide a public good, more power to them. I'll drop in someday when I have to (gack! gack!) be in Charlotte anyway.


In theory everything has an economic value of zero which is what you described. Opportunity cost always equals or is greater to profit. Otherwise everyone would do the same thing as it would be the only thing profitable. You did make me think about my macroeconomics class though which is something I haven't done in about 4 years.
 
2010-08-09 10:06:29 PM  
ks1415: Hopefully it'll be easier for people to get to the HoF once the trolley gets put in. Then we can start making back the money we invested!

Or, to put it a different way, HOLY shiat IS CHARLOTTE RETARDED.


Four words: Time Warner Cable Arena.

\have family in Gastonia, one of whom is also an original PSL owner at BoA Stadium
 
2010-08-09 10:15:09 PM  
Go Fast Turn Left: The land alone is mega expensive

Downtown Charlotte is not downtown Chicago.

being downtown makes it hard to get to.

That doesn't even make any sense.
 
2010-08-09 10:28:05 PM  
DoBeDoBeDo: Of course when that promise was made we weren't in the middle of a recession and people had extra money to spend on travel.

The economy isn't off by anywhere near enough for the attendance estimate to be off by half. And it's not like it's out in the middle of nowhere. According to NASCAR attendance at the Coca Cola 600 was 140,000. If that many people can make it out to one race well the economy can't be entirely in the crapper.
 
2010-08-09 10:47:34 PM  
WhyteRaven74: Go Fast Turn Left: The land alone is mega expensive

Downtown Charlotte is not downtown Chicago.

being downtown makes it hard to get to.

That doesn't even make any sense.


Have you been to where the Hall is? It's not easy to get to, nor is Charlotte laid out like Chicago or Boston or something where everything's just an easy little walk from the center of town. And again, the Hall isn't near ANYTHING else NASCAR related. The vast majority of the actual NASCAR attractions are in Concord or Mooresville, not in Charlotte.
 
2010-08-09 10:50:31 PM  
UNC_Samurai
And their attendance would have been any better in Kansas City?

Umm, Atlanta. Kansas City was a long shot. Atlanta and Charlotte were the two finalists. Atlanta had the bid sewn up until the drivers all said they wouldn't go to Atlanta to make appearances since they all live here in Charlotte. That little move sealed the deal.

Atlanta had all the visitors from the Aquarium and World of Coca Cola to offer for NASCAR Hall of Fame traffic. People who travel to Atlanta would have probably been offered a three venue pass at a discount, securing good attendance numbers for all three.... but nope, dumbasses had to listen to the drivers.... none of whom have actually made any appearances at the Hall of Fame, thus far... other than the grand opening.
 
2010-08-09 11:02:02 PM  
Go Fast Turn Left: where everything's just an easy little walk from the center of town.

No, no it's not.
 
2010-08-09 11:47:36 PM  
Well, why would anyone want to go to a Hall of Fame with only five inductees, two of whom were the guys who founded and ran the sport and never raced in a single race?

I mean, really, is there anyone who wants to go to the NASCAR Hall of Fame to learn more about Bill France Sr. or Jr.? Do they have the desk that he signed the Winston deal on? Boy, I bet that would be a huge attraction!
 
2010-08-10 12:29:36 AM  
WhyteRaven74: Go Fast Turn Left: The land alone is mega expensive

Downtown Charlotte is not downtown Chicago.

being downtown makes it hard to get to.

That doesn't even make any sense.


Chicago is not Chicago either, so I don't know how that's relevant.

/obscure?
 
2010-08-10 01:04:48 AM  
FirstNationalBastard: Well, why would anyone want to go to a Hall of Fame with only five inductees, two of whom were the guys who founded and ran the sport and never raced in a single race?

I mean, really, is there anyone who wants to go to the NASCAR Hall of Fame to learn more about Bill France Sr. or Jr.? Do they have the desk that he signed the Winston deal on? Boy, I bet that would be a huge attraction!


This this a million times THIS

It's their hall of fame! There are no rules about who gets inducted and who doesn't! It was stupid to limit the inductions to 5, stupider to have 40% be the Bill France's.
 
2010-08-10 01:09:37 AM  
Dumb-Ass-Monkey: FirstNationalBastard: Well, why would anyone want to go to a Hall of Fame with only five inductees, two of whom were the guys who founded and ran the sport and never raced in a single race?

I mean, really, is there anyone who wants to go to the NASCAR Hall of Fame to learn more about Bill France Sr. or Jr.? Do they have the desk that he signed the Winston deal on? Boy, I bet that would be a huge attraction!

This this a million times THIS

It's their hall of fame! There are no rules about who gets inducted and who doesn't! It was stupid to limit the inductions to 5, stupider to have 40% be the Bill France's.


The first class for the HoF should have been 10 drivers, and two non-drivers. That way, there would be plenty of drivers people want to see, and both Frances get in, too.

Every year after, 5 drivers, 1 non-driver.

Because, really... as important as announcers, or T. Wayne Robertson were, no one's going to the HoF to see them.

But, with the way NASCAR is, I expect to see Brian France in the HoF within five years.
 
2010-08-10 01:40:21 AM  
FirstNationalBastard: Dumb-Ass-Monkey: FirstNationalBastard: Well, why would anyone want to go to a Hall of Fame with only five inductees, two of whom were the guys who founded and ran the sport and never raced in a single race?

I mean, really, is there anyone who wants to go to the NASCAR Hall of Fame to learn more about Bill France Sr. or Jr.? Do they have the desk that he signed the Winston deal on? Boy, I bet that would be a huge attraction!

This this a million times THIS

It's their hall of fame! There are no rules about who gets inducted and who doesn't! It was stupid to limit the inductions to 5, stupider to have 40% be the Bill France's.

The first class for the HoF should have been 10 drivers, and two non-drivers. That way, there would be plenty of drivers people want to see, and both Frances get in, too.

Every year after, 5 drivers, 1 non-driver.

Because, really... as important as announcers, or T. Wayne Robertson were, no one's going to the HoF to see them.

But, with the way NASCAR is, I expect to see Brian France in the HoF within five years.


Mark my words: Humpy Wheeler and/or Bruton Smith within a decade.
 
2010-08-10 01:42:47 AM  
Jensaarai:
But, with the way NASCAR is, I expect to see Brian France in the HoF within five years.

Mark my words: Humpy Wheeler and/or Bruton Smith within a decade.


Tim Richmond: The day after hell freezes over.

Hell, I don't even expect Alan Kulwicki to make it in for a good, long while.

/official NASCAR thread!
 
2010-08-10 02:45:06 AM  
ecmoRandomNumbers: TWO HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS? Does the NASCAR Hall of Fame orbit Mars, or something?

I don't understand why it costs so goddamn much to build anything these days. $200m for this, $50m for a relatively small Vietnam War Museum(discussed today in the OC Register), $1b for a sports stadium, etc. I don't understand what exactly costs so much to build a dedicated use building. Is it the union labor? Can you hire some dudes from Home Depot and save $150m? They can build a Costco for ~$10m, and this thing sure as hell isn't 20 Costco's in size nor in complexity. I could buy an F-22 and parts and still have enough leftover cash to build a few dozen mansions.
 
2010-08-10 03:02:22 AM  
I go to school at UNC-Charlotte and Lowe's Motor Speedway is right down the road up by Concord. It would have made so much more sense to put it up by the Zmax/Speedway area.
 
2010-08-10 05:31:01 AM  
FirstNationalBastard: /official NASCAR thread!

Close, but not until Wallmendinger does his duty.
 
2010-08-10 05:44:07 AM  
yequalsy: But, hey, if Charlot..tins..tites..type-people want to provide a public good, more power to them. I'll drop in someday when I have to (gack! gack!) be in Charlotte anyway.

I believe the proper demonym is "Charlo-tans".
 
2010-08-10 05:49:12 AM  
Atlanta was the first hub of stock car racing until the snooty religious types shooed it away. They didn't like the liquor ties.

The REAL Story of Moonshine and NASCAR - Part I (new window)

Prior to the war, the Atlanta area with its wealth of talented liquor-hauling racers was the acknowledged center of the stock car racing universe. However, when Lakewood Speedway announced a big stock car racing show for the Labor Day immediately after V-J Day in 1945 and gave top billing to five convicted bootleggers, the forces of propriety in the city reacted immediately. Led by the editor of the Atlanta Constitution and the Atlanta-area Baptist and Methodist ministerial associations, a campaign was begun to ban convicted liquor runners from the city-owned speedway. While they were not able to prevent the Labor Day race from occurring-a race ironically won by Roy Hall-they were able to ban the racers from future events at Lakewood; a ban that would last until 1949.

/assholes
 
2010-08-10 06:19:39 AM  
Farking Sweet: Atlanta was the first hub of stock car racing until the snooty religious types shooed it away. They didn't like the liquor ties.

The REAL Story of Moonshine and NASCAR - Part I (new window)

Prior to the war, the Atlanta area with its wealth of talented liquor-hauling racers was the acknowledged center of the stock car racing universe. However, when Lakewood Speedway announced a big stock car racing show for the Labor Day immediately after V-J Day in 1945 and gave top billing to five convicted bootleggers, the forces of propriety in the city reacted immediately. Led by the editor of the Atlanta Constitution and the Atlanta-area Baptist and Methodist ministerial associations, a campaign was begun to ban convicted liquor runners from the city-owned speedway. While they were not able to prevent the Labor Day race from occurring-a race ironically won by Roy Hall-they were able to ban the racers from future events at Lakewood; a ban that would last until 1949.

/assholes


Aaaand that's why Atlanta is losing a race to Kentucky. (These folks hold looong grudges.)
 
2010-08-10 06:33:48 AM  
Jensaarai: Aaaand that's why Atlanta is losing a race to Kentucky.

Well that, and nobody goes to the Atlanta race anymore.
 
2010-08-10 07:35:54 AM  
Grunt2006: UNC_Samurai
And their attendance would have been any better in Kansas City?

Umm, Atlanta. Kansas City was a long shot. Atlanta and Charlotte were the two finalists. Atlanta had the bid sewn up until the drivers all said they wouldn't go to Atlanta to make appearances since they all live here in Charlotte. That little move sealed the deal.

Atlanta had all the visitors from the Aquarium and World of Coca Cola to offer for NASCAR Hall of Fame traffic. People who travel to Atlanta would have probably been offered a three venue pass at a discount, securing good attendance numbers for all three.... but nope, dumbasses had to listen to the drivers.... none of whom have actually made any appearances at the Hall of Fame, thus far... other than the grand opening.


Atlanta can't even hold on to 2 race dates and you are trying to argue it would get more visitors?
 
2010-08-10 09:00:42 AM  
I don't understand the point of a hall of fame for NASCAR. Isn't there only like 40 drivers at any given point in time? And their careers are generally extremely long as far as "althletic" careers go. Even including the crews, it seems like everyone will be in there in a decade or two.
 
2010-08-10 09:14:45 AM  
Lil' Max Meatboots: Atlanta can't even hold on to 2 race dates and you are trying to argue it would get more visitors?

In the long run the NASCAR HOF will probably do fine. But there's no question that Atlanta is far more of a destination than Charlotte. I can imagine a hundred conversations about like this. "Honey, let's take a trip to Atlanta. We can catch a Braves game, go to that awesome aquarium, and maybe catch the NASCAR HOF." "That sounds great, Dear."

versus

"Honey, let's take a trip to Charlotte. We can check out the NASCAR HOF." "What else will we do?" "Well, uh, we can, uh, catch some four-lane drag racing in Concord." Crickets. "We can, uh, well if we drive up in the Fall we can see the Horn...no wait, uh, we can go to Asheville or maybe the Outer Banks, uh, uh..."
 
2010-08-10 09:45:52 AM  
Krayz: Chicago is not Chicago either, so I don't know how that's relevant.

/obscure?


I'll get the ankles and you get the wrists.
 
2010-08-10 09:55:54 AM  
At the time they were deciding on which city to put the HoF it was proven that Daytona would draw the biggest attendance because of the proximity to Disney and the Beaches.Daytona could not match the dollar amount that Charlotte offered and the drivers biatched that they did not want to have to travel for HoF events so as usual instead of what was better for more fans to visit they concentrated on money and drivers concerns over fans.
 
2010-08-10 10:44:14 AM  
Grunt2006: UNC_Samurai
And their attendance would have been any better in Kansas City?

Umm, Atlanta. Kansas City was a long shot. Atlanta and Charlotte were the two finalists. Atlanta had the bid sewn up until the drivers all said they wouldn't go to Atlanta to make appearances since they all live here in Charlotte. That little move sealed the deal.

Atlanta had all the visitors from the Aquarium and World of Coca Cola to offer for NASCAR Hall of Fame traffic. People who travel to Atlanta would have probably been offered a three venue pass at a discount, securing good attendance numbers for all three.... but nope, dumbasses had to listen to the drivers.... none of whom have actually made any appearances at the Hall of Fame, thus far... other than the grand opening.


Having Atlanta and KC in the running was always a farce. They were only "in it" to scare a larger bid from Charlotte. The HoF was never going to Atlanta or KC.
 
2010-08-10 10:57:13 AM  
Go Fast Turn Left: WhyteRaven74: Go Fast Turn Left: The land alone is mega expensive

Downtown Charlotte is not downtown Chicago.

being downtown makes it hard to get to.

That doesn't even make any sense.

Have you been to where the Hall is? It's not easy to get to, nor is Charlotte laid out like Chicago or Boston or something where everything's just an easy little walk from the center of town. And again, the Hall isn't near ANYTHING else NASCAR related. The vast majority of the actual NASCAR attractions are in Concord or Mooresville, not in Charlotte.


I gotta ask if you've ever been to Chicago.

at any rate

NASCAR attendance figures are down across the board year over year for somethign like the 3rd year in a row. Their HOF is following the same pattern just at an accelerated rate. Big numbers in the beginning that will simply taper off to whatever level they're going to be at regularly.

I think they wanted to put it away from the tracks and shops to make it a destination in and of itself - the NFL HOF isn't near anything football related, and football fans will often choose canton as a travel destination just to visit the hall.
 
2010-08-10 06:57:45 PM  
In related news, Hayseeds everywhere report that they've spent all their money on Dale Earnhardt "collectibles," no longer have the money to go to any Halls of Fame...
 
2010-08-10 07:11:57 PM  
FirstNationalBastard: Do they have the desk that he signed the Winston deal on? Boy, I bet that would be a huge attraction!

I was there and they have the desk there. I pretty much passed that by and didn't even waste the pixels on a picture.
 
2010-08-10 07:23:20 PM  
icatcher: FirstNationalBastard: Do they have the desk that he signed the Winston deal on? Boy, I bet that would be a huge attraction!

I was there and they have the desk there. I pretty much passed that by and didn't even waste the pixels on a picture.


...Damn, I was being sarcastic.
 
2010-08-11 12:06:30 AM  
The could have put it near or attached to Concord Mills. Close to Lowes motor speedway, i85 and the largest tourest attraction in the state.
 
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