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(Yahoo)   North Korea would like to remind everyone that while they lack food, basic sanitation and a sane leader, they DO have lots and lots of artillery   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 99
    More: Obvious, sanitation, North Koreans, artillery shells, provocations, diplomatic relations, counters, military exercises, consulates  
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10173 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Aug 2010 at 1:14 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



99 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2010-08-09 10:12:35 AM
You've got to accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
 
2010-08-09 10:21:03 AM
When was the last time something made in Korea actually worked?
 
2010-08-09 10:22:35 AM
well, that's a great combination.
 
2010-08-09 11:32:45 AM
And I'm willing to bet we know exactly where it's kept, setting Best Korea peasants up for a fantastic firework display.
 
2010-08-09 12:22:15 PM
img.photobucket.com
 
2010-08-09 12:39:45 PM
myanimalblog.files.wordpress.com
Kim Jong Eel
 
2010-08-09 12:47:15 PM
Worth re-posting:

Playground Politics: North Korea (Crappy quality, but funny.)
 
2010-08-09 12:47:23 PM
Rots and rots?
 
2010-08-09 01:15:33 PM
It's delicious if you cook it right.
 
2010-08-09 01:16:42 PM
Aw, look at them posturing up there, thinking they're big boys. They're so cute.
 
2010-08-09 01:17:41 PM
A million man army without food is pretty worthless. You can't eat HE artillery shells.
 
2010-08-09 01:18:23 PM
lajimi: When was the last time something made in Korea actually worked?



Most of their artillery is Chinese and Russian made from the early 90's. I wonder how much of it still works.

I can't imagine they've had much in the way of training, maintenance, spare parts, and etc for the pieces for the last 20 years.
 
2010-08-09 01:18:45 PM
FTA: Landed harmlessly in the ocean

Well DUH! When you are an Island it can only land in the ocean. Stupid writers!
 
2010-08-09 01:20:24 PM
Yeah the funny part is also how, following US-SK stage joint naval exercise with 4500 men, 29 ships, and 50 fighter jets, NK demonstrates its own naval power by kidnapping a small SK-Chinese fishing boat

There... take THAT, Amewica! You gonna have to beg to get doze fwishamen back!

/and Fark didn't consider my headline greenlightable... the world is not a fair place
 
2010-08-09 01:22:05 PM
Meh. Only a small fraction of their artillery has the range to hit Seoul itself, and then only from a relatively small area.
 
2010-08-09 01:22:09 PM
Bunnyhat: lajimi: When was the last time something made in Korea actually worked?



Most of their artillery is Chinese and Russian made from the early 90's. I wonder how much of it still works.

I can't imagine they've had much in the way of training, maintenance, spare parts, and etc for the pieces for the last 20 years.


The North Korean military is probably the only thing in the country that does work. Artillery is a really basic bit of kit. It's a tube with a bomb stuck in the bottom of it. There's not really a lot to maintain. And they do have lots and lots of it.
 
2010-08-09 01:24:30 PM
We have more.
 
2010-08-09 01:24:30 PM
www.motifake.com

GIS for North Korean Artillery
 
2010-08-09 01:25:11 PM
so, what is that massive looking minigun in the pic? it almost looks like it's mounted to the tank behind it.
 
2010-08-09 01:26:38 PM
It would be the smartest war we got in to after WWII.

Smart on account of we would get to help blast the shiat out of the country and then China and SKorea would do all the grunt work to clean it up.

I'd also like to see all the documentaries on how scared the NKorean people are of every foreigner that comes to help.
 
2010-08-09 01:27:37 PM
Where the fark does North Korea get the money to spend on all their weapons exactly? Wtf do they export? Anything besides propaganda and crazy?
 
2010-08-09 01:28:50 PM
But they do not have nukes.
 
2010-08-09 01:29:44 PM
Bunnyhat: lajimi: When was the last time something made in Korea actually worked?



Most of their artillery is Chinese and Russian made from the early 90's. I wonder how much of it still works.

I can't imagine they've had much in the way of training, maintenance, spare parts, and etc for the pieces for the last 20 years.


Well, gun artillery really isn't all that complicated. From a fixed, surveyed position you don't really need fancy computerized controls, and the tube itself is fairly rugged. Plus, since they aren't shot on a regular basis, they probably don't really wear out. Training is probably conducted with a small subset of the available artillery, so you only have to worry about maintaining those weapons on a regular basis. For the 'front line' guns, they probably just go through regular PMCS.
 
2010-08-09 01:30:13 PM
DonBot, that's not a tank. It's a 20 mil triple-A emplacement. Note the radar dome.
 
2010-08-09 01:30:38 PM
Best Korea's leaders and military will have plenty of food -- it's just the public that will not. Saber rattling during good times turns to international requests for food during harsh times. Lather- rinse-repeat.
 
2010-08-09 01:31:41 PM
I really wish South Korea would call their bluff someday and stomp the shiat out of the north. I'm tired of hearing about their childish temper tantrums of attention.
 
2010-08-09 01:32:59 PM
Maybe they were just fishing.
 
2010-08-09 01:36:44 PM
It was just the Glorious Leader fly fishing.
 
2010-08-09 01:36:49 PM
TheDonBot: so, what is that massive looking minigun in the pic? it almost looks like it's mounted to the tank behind it.

It looks like a self-propelled anti-aircraft gun, similar in concept to a ZSU-23 but mounting a rotary cannon.
 
2010-08-09 01:41:22 PM
Maybe they launch all of them into the ocean?

Or the libyan tactic - straight up.
 
2010-08-09 01:44:29 PM
dittybopper: TheDonBot: so, what is that massive looking minigun in the pic? it almost looks like it's mounted to the tank behind it.

It looks like a self-propelled anti-aircraft gun, similar in concept to a ZSU-23 but mounting a rotary cannon.


On closer inspection, those aren't tracks.

But it is an AAA piece.
 
2010-08-09 01:48:51 PM
ultraholland: Aw, look at them posturing up there, thinking they're big boys. They're so cute.

Yeah, they stayed pretty quiet during the military exercises between us and S Korea. Now that we left, they start rattling their sabers again.

Your right, it is cute.

/I wonder if they realize the single carrier battle group we had there could have decimated their "military".
 
2010-08-09 01:54:06 PM
Take that Poseidon!
 
2010-08-09 01:59:04 PM
Non.story.
 
2010-08-09 02:00:22 PM
Whatthefark:
/I wonder if they realize the single carrier battle group we had there could have decimated their "military".


Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy the KPA is insignificant next to the power of Juche.
 
2010-08-09 02:02:35 PM
ultraholland: Aw, look at them posturing up there, thinking they're big boys. They're so cute.

don't be an asshole. you don't have to play big-boy games to get a lot of people killed.
 
2010-08-09 02:02:37 PM
I get so sick of seeing this all the time. FTA: "a South Korean Joint Chief of Staff officer said on condition of anonymity, citing department policy."

Can't anyone keep a secret anymore? On the other hand, maybe putting the world's military on Twitter feeds would solve a lot of problems.
 
2010-08-09 02:03:23 PM
DFWPhotoGuy: FTA: Landed harmlessly in the ocean

Well DUH! When you are an Island it can only land in the ocean.


Uhh...

/Is this referencing anything?
 
2010-08-09 02:05:29 PM
The world cup seems to have struck a raw nerve in the little man.
 
2010-08-09 02:07:59 PM
I banged your sister: I really wish South Korea would call their bluff someday and stomp the shiat out of the north. I'm tired of hearing about their childish temper tantrums of attention.

North Korea's entire peninsula strategy is based on a really fast, really brutal takeover of the south. "Stomping the shiat out of them" would be a really messy, violent affair.
 
2010-08-09 02:13:54 PM
Man On Fire: don't be an asshole. you don't have to play big-boy games to get a lot of people killed.

As long as it is the North Koreans doing the dying, does anyone really care? After all, their own government has starved and oppressed them for decades without much of a reaction from Uncle Sam...
 
2010-08-09 02:16:51 PM
It's ok. You can't eat artillery shells anyways.

And they only fired 110 as a demonstration? 110 shells is not a lot for an army- this kinda implies to me they may be really short on ammo. That kind of ordinance could be expended in a single training day for a small class. You can't keep your crews trained without expending more ordinance than this with some regularity.
 
2010-08-09 02:21:39 PM
dittybopper: Meh. Only a small fraction of their artillery has the range to hit Seoul itself, and then only from a relatively small area.

Who needs artillery? All they have to do is put the shell on a golf tee and give Kim Jong-Il a one wood. He can drop that sucker anywhere in the Korean peninsula.
 
2010-08-09 02:22:44 PM

Oznog


And they only fired 110 as a demonstration? 110 shells is not a lot for an army- this kinda implies to me they may be really short on ammo. That kind of ordinance could be expended in a single training day for a small class. You can't keep your crews trained without expending more ordinance than this with some regularity.


The word you wanted is 'ordnance'. I doubt they are lobbing statutes at the targets.
 
2010-08-09 02:27:52 PM
Oznog

And they only fired 110 as a demonstration? 110 shells is not a lot for an army- this kinda implies to me they may be really short on ammo. That kind of ordinance could be expended in a single training day for a small class. You can't keep your crews trained without expending more ordinance than this with some regularity.


Englebert Slaptyback: The word you wanted is 'ordnance'. I doubt they are lobbing statutes at the targets.


t1.gstatic.com

What a lobbed statue might look like.
 
2010-08-09 02:38:08 PM
So did Argentina, look how well that worked for them.

Oznog: Yeah the funny part is also how, following US-SK stage joint naval exercise with 4500 men, 29 ships, and 50 fighter jets, NK demonstrates its own naval power by kidnapping a small SK-Chinese fishing boat

There... take THAT, Amewica! You gonna have to beg to get doze fwishamen back!

/and Fark didn't consider my headline greenlightable... the world is not a fair place


It worked so well for Tewodros II of Abyssinia! You what? How many British soldiers? Did what to his army? Oh dear.
 
2010-08-09 02:40:06 PM

Oznog


What a lobbed statue might look like.


AAAAHHHH!!!

*runs away*
 
2010-08-09 02:42:16 PM
Lt. Cheese Weasel: A million man army without food is pretty worthless. You can't eat HE artillery shells.

The problem is that Seoul will be a pile of ashes before the North Korean troops even get hungry for their next meal.
 
2010-08-09 02:43:58 PM
What the article failed to report was that all 110 rounds hit the target
 
2010-08-09 02:46:27 PM
Okay, so they're all poor, have little food, no access to decent medical care, and live in shacks that make the Projects look like the Plaza, but they've got a couple metric @$$tons of weapons, and are looking to pick a fight with anyone who so much as looks at them funny?

Jebus Christ, North Korea's not Communist... They're Rednecks!
 
2010-08-09 02:47:08 PM
dittybopper: Whatthefark:
/I wonder if they realize the single carrier battle group we had there could have decimated their "military".

Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy the KPA is insignificant next to the power of Juche.



i140.photobucket.com
 
2010-08-09 02:51:19 PM
i789.photobucket.com
 
2010-08-09 02:54:36 PM
It's a breeding program. Eventually, the North Koreans will evolve the ability to eat artillery shells rather than starve to death, at which point their army will storm out and enslave the world, growing fat and strong on the very weapons we attempt to shoot them with.
 
2010-08-09 03:02:45 PM
Best Korea fooled the imperialist lap-dogs of South Korea again.

Kim Jong-Il was just hitting a few golf shots into the water. Behold his power at the driving range and be afraid.
 
2010-08-09 03:05:00 PM
Can we just fight these guys and be done with it?
 
2010-08-09 03:05:17 PM
Floobergasted: I get so sick of seeing this all the time. FTA: "a South Korean Joint Chief of Staff officer said on condition of anonymity, citing department policy."

Can't anyone keep a secret anymore? On the other hand, maybe putting the world's military on Twitter feeds would solve a lot of problems.


OK, BOMB IS COMING OUT
 
2010-08-09 03:07:07 PM
www.solopassion.com

I'm so ronery
So ronery
So ronery and sadry arone

There's no one
Just me onry
Sitting on my rittle throne
I work very hard and make up great prans
But nobody ristens, no one understands
Seems that no one takes me serirousry

And so I'm ronery
A little ronery
Poor rittre me

There's nobody
I can rerate to
Feer rike a bird in a cage
It's kinda sihry
But not rearry
Because it's fihring my body with rage

I work rearry hard to stay nice and fit
But none of the women seem to give a shiat
When I rure the world maybe they'rr notice me
But untir then I'rr just be ronery
Rittre ronery, poor rittre me
I'm so ronery
I'm so ronery
 
2010-08-09 03:10:43 PM
I had Snu Snu: Can we just fight these guys and be done with it?

My Filipino Brother-In-Law used to fight with one of his sisters on a constant and near violent basis. One day, his mother pulled a couple of steak knives out of the drawer and handed each of them one. She said: "Both of you finish this. I'm tired of hearing it."

They stopped fighting for a good long time. I miss that woman. She was tough as nails and the hardest working human being I have ever met.

/She smoked cloves
//Both ends of'em.
 
2010-08-09 03:13:42 PM
Lt. Cheese Weasel: A million man army without food is pretty worthless. You can't eat HE artillery shells.

Napoleon said it best, armies march on their stomachs.
Would it be against the rules of war if our opening salvo in a theoretical war with N. Korea targeted food warehouses and our second move was to drop flyers saying Free Happy Meals with surrender.
 
2010-08-09 03:15:34 PM
Everybody knows that government spending, especially military spending, stimulates the economy. If they pour even more money into their military, they'll all be fat and happy.
 
2010-08-09 03:17:45 PM
carmi990: It would be the smartest war we got in to after WWII.

Smart on account of we would get to help blast the shiat out of the country and then China and SKorea would do all the grunt work to clean it up.

I'd also like to see all the documentaries on how scared the NKorean people are of every foreigner that comes to help.


It would be the ONLY war since WWII, assuming we declared war.

Smartest? Not really. It would cost a few hundred thousand lives and the price tag would be a number that doesn't have a name yet. We'd win, but the cost would make Iraq look modest.

Part of why took on Iraq and not NK is that very issue. You have to pick your fights. While it's very vogue to say we Iraq would be better off under the Hussiens for the next 30 years and that NK would be "the good fight", had Bush gone after Kim it would have been "the bad fight" and people would have whined about Saddam getting away with mass murder.

/former USAF intel analyst who read about NK and Iraq every day for years with an abobe TS clearance
//so i can say... you don't know what you're talking about and neither do most civilians
 
2010-08-09 03:19:49 PM
I banged your sister: I really wish South Korea would call their bluff someday and stomp the shiat out of the north. I'm tired of hearing about their childish temper tantrums of attention.

Rent Party: North Korea's entire peninsula strategy is based on a really fast, really brutal takeover of the south. "Stomping the shiat out of them" would be a really messy, violent affair.


No, it's not. They have no capacity to take over or hold territory, and they full well know that.

What they CAN do is cause a lot of horrific bloodshed and damage of some very expensive facilities in Seoul. They cannot level Seoul with artillery, but they can still do a lot of damage to Seoul and CAN level the SK cities closer to the border.

Then the "plan", if any, is to retreat to the border which they CAN sort of defend and it's politically unfeasible (and potentially unproductive) to retaliate.

That is, you COULD pursue their troops and destroy their hardware several miles across the border, but it'd be of limited value to do so, they could replace a lot of it. And it'd be an uncertain bet which could result in great loss of life for destroying some tanks and artillery pieces. This would probably simply mean artillery and airstrikes as the best retaliatory option, but it's asymmetric- these are low-value targets that don't matter to NK directly, whereas they could massacre thousands and cripple SK's economy with the damage done to the South.

Which leaves a strike on Pyongyang as an attempt to destroy the government. This may or may not be easy, but it'd plunge NK into anarchy since they know no alternative to the top-down government. Both China and SK would be hurt a lot, and the humanitarian cost inside NK could be staggering.
 
2010-08-09 03:23:27 PM
kbronsito: Napoleon said it best, armies march on their stomachs.

That ridiculous statement turned out to be his Waterloo.

apeiron242: It would be the ONLY war since WWII, assuming we declared war.

I think the US is about 60 years too late for that, however.
 
2010-08-09 03:23:49 PM
apeiron242: Part of why took on Iraq and not NK is that very issue. You have to pick your fights. While it's very vogue to say we Iraq would be better off under the Hussiens for the next 30 years and that NK would be "the good fight", had Bush gone after Kim it would have been "the bad fight" and people would have whined about Saddam getting away with mass murder.

The largest reason is that it's not our war to fight, period.

Any military engagement spearheaded by us would be in direct confict with our own interests in the region, given that all other state actors would act accordingly in response.
 
2010-08-09 03:27:53 PM
apeiron242:
/former USAF intel analyst who read about NK and Iraq every day for years with an abobe TS clearance
//so i can say... you don't know what you're talking about and neither do most civilians


I do. In fact, I got a medal for doing the job the anal-cysts in the PAR shop should have been doing.
 
2010-08-09 03:29:02 PM
Problem is not NK; the problem is when China decides it's time to help them, militarily speaking.
 
2010-08-09 03:33:03 PM
CygnusDarius: Problem is not NK; the problem is when China decides it's time to help them, militarily speaking.

We also have an extremely anti-war populace in South Korea that looks across the border and sees relatives, not enemies.

Even tactical strikes from afar into North Korea would be seen as "fark you" to Seoul from us, and strain relations with an otherwise damn good ally.
 
2010-08-09 03:33:10 PM
Oznog: I banged your sister: I really wish South Korea would call their bluff someday and stomp the shiat out of the north. I'm tired of hearing about their childish temper tantrums of attention.

Rent Party: North Korea's entire peninsula strategy is based on a really fast, really brutal takeover of the south. "Stomping the shiat out of them" would be a really messy, violent affair.

No, it's not. They have no capacity to take over or hold territory, and they full well know that.


It absolutely is. Reunification is the only plank in North Korea's foreign policy platform. Their entire military is organized around that one conflict.

They can take and hold land just fine. What they can't do is fight a protracted battle to do it.


/ Naval and Marine Corps Intelligence Training Center graduate.
// Where'd you go to school?
 
2010-08-09 03:34:53 PM
Having an unpredictable, crazy leader is probably the best way North Korea can keep us at bay. (It's not a bad plan!)
 
2010-08-09 03:37:11 PM
knew the news story before, but still lol at headline.

+1 submitter
 
2010-08-09 03:39:07 PM
Killer Cars: CygnusDarius: Problem is not NK; the problem is when China decides it's time to help them, militarily speaking.

We also have an extremely anti-war populace in South Korea that looks across the border and sees relatives, not enemies.

Even tactical strikes from afar into North Korea would be seen as "fark you" to Seoul from us, and strain relations with an otherwise damn good ally.


So it's either wait for NK to push the big red button, or an armed insurrection in NK (which I don't know if it's likely to happen or not)?.
 
2010-08-09 03:40:26 PM
CygnusDarius: Killer Cars: CygnusDarius: Problem is not NK; the problem is when China decides it's time to help them, militarily speaking.

We also have an extremely anti-war populace in South Korea that looks across the border and sees relatives, not enemies.

Even tactical strikes from afar into North Korea would be seen as "fark you" to Seoul from us, and strain relations with an otherwise damn good ally.

So it's either wait for NK to push the big red button, or an armed insurrection in NK (which I don't know if it's likely to happen or not)?.


Or simply contain them until you get a less crazy leader in charge. Might take a while, but containment is a whole lot cheaper than war.
 
2010-08-09 03:45:34 PM
CygnusDarius: So it's either wait for NK to push the big red button, or an armed insurrection in NK (which I don't know if it's likely to happen or not)?.

Pretty much.

I don't see how anyone particularly hawkish on North Korea can sleep at night considering it would be OUR F*CKING ALLY that would take whatever counterpunch NK could muster, not us.
 
2010-08-09 03:48:12 PM
So, they're really no different than the U.S. was during the Bush Administration years?
 
2010-08-09 03:49:44 PM
Arkanaut: DFWPhotoGuy: FTA: Landed harmlessly in the ocean

Well DUH! When you are an Island it can only land in the ocean.

Uhh...

/Is this referencing anything?


Yes someone once told me that S Korea is an island... and that level of crazy cant be wrong

/oh yeah and dont forget the motorboats....
 
2010-08-09 03:53:56 PM
Hale-Bopp: So, they're really no different than the U.S. was during the Bush Administration years?

ba dam t-no.....what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
 
2010-08-09 04:00:01 PM
Rent Party: Oznog: I banged your sister: I really wish South Korea would call their bluff someday and stomp the shiat out of the north. I'm tired of hearing about their childish temper tantrums of attention.

Rent Party: North Korea's entire peninsula strategy is based on a really fast, really brutal takeover of the south. "Stomping the shiat out of them" would be a really messy, violent affair.

No, it's not. They have no capacity to take over or hold territory, and they full well know that.


It absolutely is. Reunification is the only plank in North Korea's foreign policy platform. Their entire military is organized around that one conflict.

They can take and hold land just fine. What they can't do is fight a protracted battle to do it.


/ Naval and Marine Corps Intelligence Training Center graduate.
// Where'd you go to school?


I don't see how. The key right now is that there's not a suitable pretext for opening up on them. We're holding back. If they're occupying land after a violent, bloody takeover, the ethical and moral constraints are not an issue. Like kicking Iraqis out of Kuwait, with "the gloves off" with looser Rules of Engagement and less concern about civilian casualties, it's a slaughter.

Their hardware, training, and tactics are outdated and largely unsuited against a formal, unrestrained assault with everything we have (even with nuclear off the table). They have no air superiority and only a very limited capacity to transport war materiel into the area. Heck their advance and occupation time is largely limited by how much food and fuel they can capture. Seriously. They wouldn't have solid supply lines back to NK that we couldn't bomb, and NK has limited food and fuel to begin with. Sending over 5x more than they need, knowing that 4/5 of the transports won't make it, may not even be an option.

Sure, they could pull plenty of dirty tricks of asymmetrical warfare, salting the earth with explosive charges (or bio/radiological dirty bombs), hostages, leaving behind snipers making us fire artillery into SK buildings to take them out. But, the bottom line is they couldn't hold it.

The worst-case being carrying over one or more "nuclear landmines". The area-of-effect of a nuclear bomb inside a city is much more limited if not airburst, but the fallout is much greater due to neutron activation of ground debris and lack of strong uplifting convection to draw fission byproducts into the upper atmosphere to dissipate them. That may be the worst threat right there. But, if they nuke a civilian city, they're toast. No question. NK would get bombed into (further into) the Stone Age and they know it.

I'm not even sure how they'd get lines through the DMZ. WE have decent mine-clearing hardware, I don't know if they do. Even if you discard all sense of humanity and force peasants to clear mines, any narrow corridor in a useful location can be denied via UAV bombardment, cluster bomb, etc. IIRC there's a lot of largely undefended, unmined lengths of the DMZ but they don't GO anywhere. Troops crossing would be in open ground, vehicles have no nearby road to escape to, and they've no targets to attack. Sitting ducks- which is why this area was not hardened further.
 
2010-08-09 04:00:05 PM
ciderczar: kbronsito: Napoleon said it best, armies march on their stomachs.

That ridiculous statement turned out to be his Waterloo.

.


i think his army was well-fed for Waterloo... the statement proved true during the Russian campaing though.
 
2010-08-09 04:15:55 PM
Hale-Bopp: So, they're really no different than the U.S. was during the Bush Administration years?

0/10

Add subtlety and try again.
 
2010-08-09 04:17:06 PM
Killer Cars

Even tactical strikes from afar into North Korea would be seen as "fark you" to Seoul from us, and strain relations with an otherwise damn good ally.

There's no way the US would touch NK (even if we wanted to) without approval from SK and China.
 
2010-08-09 04:43:13 PM
Ah well, I knew no one would agree with me, because people are too proud and afraid to admit the truth, that we're only becoming as great as the next best 3rd World nation.

fark you all anyways.
 
2010-08-09 04:47:12 PM
StarshipPooper: Where the fark does North Korea get the money to spend on all their weapons exactly? Wtf do they export? Anything besides propaganda and crazy?

every time we get close to declaring China a currency manipulator N. Korea and Iran find some way to be d*(kish requiring us to seek assistance from China. I wonder what we end up giving China for their assistance. What could it be?
 
2010-08-09 04:50:10 PM
1.bp.blogspot.com

ME WANT DUMPRING
 
2010-08-09 04:52:00 PM
Suppose we punch it out with the Norks and win. Then what? China and SK sure as hell don't want that mess of a refugee problem. The problem West Germany had assimilating East Germany will look like small potatoes compared to the absolute mess of a unified Korea. At least East Germany had some semblance of roads, well-fed & literate population. North Korea has none of this.
 
2010-08-09 05:39:28 PM
dj_bigbird: Suppose we punch it out with the Norks and win. Then what? China and SK sure as hell don't want that mess of a refugee problem. The problem West Germany had assimilating East Germany will look like small potatoes compared to the absolute mess of a unified Korea. At least East Germany had some semblance of roads, well-fed & literate population. North Korea has none of this.

Which is why neither South Korea nor her allies will start a war with North Korea. There is just no winning. Everyone has seen what happens when you invade a country and try to rebuild it to the invading countries standards. Just leads to a lot of wasted money, time, and lives. The only move is not to play.

/Although nuking the shiat out of North Korea is a solution
//But only if they start it
///At least the night time images will show NK is just as bright as SK
 
2010-08-09 05:46:22 PM
Lollipop165: There's no way the US would touch NK (even if we wanted to) without approval concurrence from SK and prior notification to China.

Probably more accurate now
 
2010-08-09 05:59:37 PM
Killer Cars: CygnusDarius: Problem is not NK; the problem is when China decides it's time to help them, militarily speaking.

We also have an extremely anti-war populace in South Korea that looks across the border and sees relatives, not enemies.

Even tactical strikes from afar into North Korea would be seen as "fark you" to Seoul from us, and strain relations with an otherwise damn good ally.


This is more relevant than the artillery threat.

Ironically, the US is better prepared against an enemy like NK than it is against what we are facing in Afghanistan. The US excels at identifying and blowing up artillery.

I'm not saying there wouldn't be a physical cost to Seoul, but the major cost would be in good will unless NK initiates an attack.
 
2010-08-09 06:04:01 PM
Oznog: UAV bombardment,

UAVs aren't useful against NK. Well not that they are of no use, but this isn't the Taliban whose air defense system is a couple of stingers that were long since converted into IEDs or simply 'stale'.
 
2010-08-09 06:10:52 PM
Oznog: Rent Party: Oznog: I banged your sister: I really wish South Korea would call their bluff someday and stomp the shiat out of the north. I'm tired of hearing about their childish temper tantrums of attention.

Rent Party: North Korea's entire peninsula strategy is based on a really fast, really brutal takeover of the south. "Stomping the shiat out of them" would be a really messy, violent affair.

No, it's not. They have no capacity to take over or hold territory, and they full well know that.


It absolutely is. Reunification is the only plank in North Korea's foreign policy platform. Their entire military is organized around that one conflict.

They can take and hold land just fine. What they can't do is fight a protracted battle to do it.


/ Naval and Marine Corps Intelligence Training Center graduate.
// Where'd you go to school?

I don't see how. The key right now is that there's not a suitable pretext for opening up on them. We're holding back. If they're occupying land after a violent, bloody takeover, the ethical and moral constraints are not an issue. Like kicking Iraqis out of Kuwait, with "the gloves off" with looser Rules of Engagement and less concern about civilian casualties, it's a slaughter.

Their hardware, training, and tactics are outdated and largely unsuited against a formal, unrestrained assault with everything we have (even with nuclear off the table). They have no air superiority and only a very limited capacity to transport war materiel into the area. Heck their advance and occupation time is largely limited by how much food and fuel they can capture. Seriously. They wouldn't have solid supply lines back to NK that we couldn't bomb, and NK has limited food and fuel to begin with. Sending over 5x more than they need, knowing that 4/5 of the transports won't make it, may not even be an option.

Sure, they could pull plenty of dirty tricks of asymmetrical warfare, salting the earth with explosive charges (or bio/radiological dirty bombs), hostages, leaving behind snipers making us fire artillery into SK buildings to take them out. But, the bottom line is they couldn't hold it.

The worst-case being carrying over one or more "nuclear landmines". The area-of-effect of a nuclear bomb inside a city is much more limited if not airburst, but the fallout is much greater due to neutron activation of ground debris and lack of strong uplifting convection to draw fission byproducts into the upper atmosphere to dissipate them. That may be the worst threat right there. But, if they nuke a civilian city, they're toast. No question. NK would get bombed into (further into) the Stone Age and they know it.

I'm not even sure how they'd get lines through the DMZ. WE have decent mine-clearing hardware, I don't know if they do. Even if you discard all sense of humanity and force peasants to clear mines, any narrow corridor in a useful location can be denied via UAV bombardment, cluster bomb, etc. IIRC there's a lot of largely undefended, unmined lengths of the DMZ but they don't GO anywhere. Troops crossing would be in open ground, vehicles have no nearby road to escape to, and they've no targets to attack. Sitting ducks- which is why this area was not hardened further.


Dude, stop. Really.

The NK army is one of the largest standing armies in the world, and most of the NK GDP goes into it's care and feeding. They are a very big dog with very sharp teeth on a very short leash. They are well trained and well equipped. The only people in NK that don't go hungry are in the army.

They would get across the DMZ like anyone else would. They'd use that massive artillery capability to pound the crap out of it, and then send the infantry across en mass.
 
2010-08-09 06:21:07 PM
 
2010-08-09 06:30:57 PM
Feindevil: Yes someone once told me that S Korea is an island... and that level of crazy cant be wrong

No man is an island. He's a peninsula.

obscure?
 
2010-08-09 07:07:51 PM
North Korea should be left for China to sort out. The NK Regime is like a crazy uncle out on the lawn firing a revolver. Let China try a little regime change.
 
2010-08-09 10:23:07 PM
China doesn't want to deal with NK refugees either, and if it wants to do is feed people it's got plenty of poor of its own already.
 
2010-08-09 10:23:56 PM
ahem, "if what it wants to do is feed people" of course.
 
2010-08-09 10:53:55 PM
Maybe they have artillery because they don't have food.

/They'll go down in flames before they eat I suppose.
 
2010-08-10 12:49:08 AM
North Korea would like to remind everyone that while they lack food, basic sanitation and a sane leader, they DO have lots and lots of artillery

Maybe so, subby, but can they pronounce it?
 
2010-08-10 07:37:35 AM
TheWizard: Oznog: UAV bombardment,

UAVs aren't useful against NK. Well not that they are of no use, but this isn't the Taliban whose air defense system is a couple of stingers that were long since converted into IEDs or simply 'stale'.


Actually, in the case of a war against the DPRK, UAVs would be of great use in spotting and designating targets.

In fact, that's kind of what UAVs were originally designed to do, things like discreet artillery spotting, designating targets for manned aircraft, searching for high value targets, that sort of thing.
 
2010-08-11 03:05:15 PM
Some of that artillery would probably be used as a path
clearing mechanism through the DMZ..Just step the shelling across
the mined areas to detonate the mines.Then lead with bulldozers
to push a path. Since infantry and artillery are their main
threat. They could do something along those lines just to get
their infantry inside. I'm not sure what their armor is like. I'd
imagine it's a lot of really ancient Russian hardware. I doubt
they would risk much of that on an initial rush and would use it
more as a holding/defending item. Especially since fuel would
be a problem.

But once the U.S. brought in UAVs, helicopters and A-10's it
would be done for their hardware. Getting their infantry out
of the towns and cities would be the hard part. Those people
are so brainwashed that it isn't inconceivable that it might
be like rooting out the holdout WW II Japanese soldiers that
would fight to the last bullet then suicide charge. If Best
Korea didn't lead with nukes, they wouldn't really get a chance.
Once the first whiff of some sort of action taking place comes
down, their nuclear sites are going to get whacked. Cruise
missiles from subs, cruisers and air launched from Air Forces
from Okinawa and Diego Garcia would plaster them.
 
2010-08-11 05:46:48 PM
Mr. Shabooboo: Then lead with bulldozers
to push a path. Since infantry and artillery are their main
threat. They could do something along those lines just to get
their infantry inside.



Don't we still have combat loaded M1A1 tanks (among whatever else is up there) on the SK side of the border? 120mm main gun rounds would make short work of the earth movers and the small arms could seriously put a dent in any Zerg rush / human wave attack.
Not saying they'd hold off the entire NK force. Just thinking out loud that doing such a thing would be somewhat counter-productive as instead of mines and concertina wire, they'd have to contend with burning vehicles, piles of bodies and what would be left of the mines and wire.
It'd be messy any way it went down.
 
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