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(BBC)   Archeologists have found the remains of St. John the Baptist. He was a religious figure a-head of his time   (bbc.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Cool, St. John the Baptist, Black Sea, Bulgaria, bones, floods  
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6606 clicks; posted to Geek » on 03 Aug 2010 at 2:24 PM (6 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



103 Comments     (+0 »)
 


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2010-08-03 12:17:34 PM  
Isn't there a cult in Iraq that believes that John was the messiah, not Jesus? I could have sworn that I read something about that.

The dove appearing was really Satan in disguise?
 
2010-08-03 12:19:46 PM  
It's funny because it's true.
 
2010-08-03 12:20:34 PM  
Apparantly he did not coin that phrase about keeping your head when all around you are losing theirs.
 
2010-08-03 12:25:13 PM  
From what I can see on other news sites, the only reason they're thought to be St. John's remains is that they were found in the remains of an altar in the ruins of a church on an island named after him.

It's not exactly the kind of proof one would expect to have satisfied an "archeologist".
 
2010-08-03 12:30:28 PM  

SphericalTime: Isn't there a cult in Iraq that believes that John was the messiah, not Jesus? I could have sworn that I read something about that.

The dove appearing was really Satan in disguise?


Whoa, really?? What an interesting concept!
 
2010-08-03 12:35:53 PM  

notmtwain: It's not exactly the kind of proof one would expect to have satisfied an "archeologist".


This. The BBC's coverage (this article) is lacking of any specific details.
 
2010-08-03 12:38:38 PM  
Did they find them in the hull of Noah's Ark next to the remains of Sasquatch?
 
2010-08-03 12:44:29 PM  

tudorgurl: Whoa, really?? What an interesting concept!


Mandaeans maybe?
 
2010-08-03 01:09:19 PM  
I like how the BBC video player's volume goes to 11.
 
2010-08-03 01:12:01 PM  

notmtwain: From what I can see on other news sites, the only reason they're thought to be St. John's remains is that they were found in the remains of an altar in the ruins of a church on an island named after him.

It's not exactly the kind of proof one would expect to have satisfied an "archeologist".


"a monastical complex was built between the 5th-6th century" Link (new window)

Yep, I'm sure the body of St John had impeccable provenance in the 5th to 6th century when those remains were buried there.

In other news 5th century hoax becomes 21st century hoax.
 
2010-08-03 01:17:09 PM  
I just hope someone finds paul bunyan's axe soon. That thing has to be huge. There's no way it can stay hidden forever.
 
2010-08-03 01:17:43 PM  

notmtwain: It's not exactly the kind of proof one would expect to have satisfied an "archeologist".


But it's enough for the religious. You know, what with faith and all meaning they don't have to have what you might call evidence, they just have to really, really believe it's true.

/like clapping your hands will keep fairies from dying
 
2010-08-03 01:23:39 PM  
These kinds of archaelogical shenanigans distract from true projects of scientific merit, like the expedition to the North Pole to find Santa's Tomb.
 
2010-08-03 01:26:44 PM  

Cagey B: These kinds of archaelogical shenanigans distract from true projects of scientific merit, like the expedition to the North Pole to find Santa's Tomb.


Santa's dead?!

*sobs*
 
2010-08-03 01:33:10 PM  
While travelling through the mediterranean, I was was hauled to a location with a brass gravemarker that said "john the baptist" - not in the baltic. Can't remember now if it was Greece, Turkey or Israel. /most of that time was drunk/hungover...

one of the coolest speculations I read on the internet was suggesting that John the Baptist used to hold people under until they had a near death experience, saw 'god' and were thus 'reborn'. I like to think it was true.
 
2010-08-03 01:34:48 PM  

oldebayer: Apparantly he did not coin that phrase about keeping your head when all around you are losing theirs.


But it does make it more convenient to turn the other cheek.
 
2010-08-03 01:39:25 PM  

JustinCase: I like to think it was true.


You gotta think he probably killed more than a few people.
 
2010-08-03 01:52:54 PM  

notmtwain: It's not exactly the kind of proof one would expect to have satisfied an "archeologist".


I suppose you don't believe that Harrison Ford found the Ark of the Covenant either.
 
2010-08-03 02:00:58 PM  

I_C_Weener: I suppose you don't believe that Harrison Ford found the Ark of the Covenant either.


The Ark of the Covenant was hidden by God. In Revelations, it says that the Ark was seen in the Temple of God in Heaven. It is likely never going to found. There are many rumors about its location, but no one has ever offered definitive proof for its whereabouts. Like The Garden of Eden, its location is protected.
 
2010-08-03 02:07:51 PM  
www.nationalgallery.org.uk
"This isn't what I ordered!"

/did they find the head?
 
2010-08-03 02:07:51 PM  

ignite ice: The Ark of the Covenant was hidden by God. In Revelations, it says that the Ark was seen in the Temple of God in Heaven. It is likely never going to found. There are many rumors about its location, but no one has ever offered definitive proof for its whereabouts. Like The Garden of Eden, its location is protected.


Poe's Law
 
2010-08-03 02:10:44 PM  
Well, I feel spiritually reborn.

*cracks open another beer*
 
2010-08-03 02:18:41 PM  

verbal_jizm: Cagey B: These kinds of archaelogical shenanigans distract from true projects of scientific merit, like the expedition to the North Pole to find Santa's Tomb.

Santa's dead?!

*sobs*


He was buried under the Fortress of Solitude. Superman does Christmas now. He's much better at it anyway.
 
2010-08-03 02:25:28 PM  

ignite ice:
The Ark of the Covenant was hidden by God. In Revelations, it says that the Ark was seen in the Temple of God in Heaven. It is likely never going to found. There are many rumors about its location, but no one has ever offered definitive proof for its whereabouts. Like The Garden of Eden, its location is protected.


You'd think having our troops all over Iraq for the better part of a decade they'd have stumbled across said garden somewhere in that river basin. Unless...Saddam destroyed it!
 
2010-08-03 02:31:17 PM  

Racht: You'd think having our troops all over Iraq for the better part of a decade they'd have stumbled across said garden somewhere in that river basin. Unless...Saddam destroyed it!


The specific wording in Genesis describes the location as the crossing point of four rivers -- two of which are nowhere to be found (at least near the Tigris and Euphrates).

You know how Springfield borders Ohio, Nevada, Maine, and Kentucky? Same idea.
 
2010-08-03 02:31:28 PM  

JustinCase: While travelling through the mediterranean, I was was hauled to a location with a brass gravemarker that said "john the baptist" - not in the baltic. Can't remember now if it was Greece, Turkey or Israel. /most of that time was drunk/hungover...

one of the coolest speculations I read on the internet was suggesting that John the Baptist used to hold people under until they had a near death experience, saw 'god' and were thus 'reborn'. I like to think it was true.


And then the old drunk says, "Are you sure this is where he fell in?"
 
2010-08-03 02:33:36 PM  
How would the remains of John The Baptist have ended up in Bulgaria? I smell baloney.
 
2010-08-03 02:34:55 PM  

BKITU: Racht: You'd think having our troops all over Iraq for the better part of a decade they'd have stumbled across said garden somewhere in that river basin. Unless...Saddam destroyed it!

The specific wording in Genesis describes the location as the crossing point of four rivers -- two of which are nowhere to be found (at least near the Tigris and Euphrates).


In an area that has become significantly more arid in the past 6,000 or so years, it is possible that some rivers have dried up.
 
2010-08-03 02:35:12 PM  

SphericalTime: Isn't there a cult in Iraq that believes that John was the messiah, not Jesus? I could have sworn that I read something about that.

The dove appearing was really Satan in disguise?


Mandeanism: a Persian/Palestinian mystery religion that appears to have been a pre-cursor to manicheanism and some Christian traditions. From what little we know of them, they behaved a lot like the Biblical Essenes and called its highest level of teacher/priest a Nasorean ('enightened master'-which sounds an awful lot like Nazerean-what Jesus is called in the bible). In their tradition, John the Baptist and Jesus were both enlightened masters but while John was Revered as the greatest teacher Jesus was regarded as a Very Bad Person since he went around telling everyone the secret mysteries that the higher initiates were supposed to keep to themselves and using his mystical powers to make himself appear to be the messiah.

There's no evidence of the religion existing before the 2nd century AD however .
 
2010-08-03 02:37:10 PM  

BKITU:
The specific wording in Genesis describes the location as the crossing point of four rivers -- two of which are nowhere to be found (at least near the Tigris and Euphrates).

You know how Springfield borders Ohio, Nevada, Maine, and Kentucky? Same idea.


Yeah, I'm aware. But the Tigris and Euphrates are only close to each other in Iraq, if I remember my geography correctly. I'd assume the other two refer to tributaries that were either renamed or the landscape was changed in one of the numerous tidal basin floods.

/yes, I know it's a damn story, just making fun of the fact that this mythical paradise is in all likelihood referring to a farking desert full of brown people evangelicals love to hate
 
2010-08-03 02:41:22 PM  

DaWormyPimpsta: Did they find them in the hull of Noah's Ark next to the remains of Sasquatch?


No, but they did find an old wooden cup that some grad student put up on E-Bay.
 
2010-08-03 02:43:57 PM  

Tenburn: I just hope someone finds paul bunyan's axe soon. That thing has to be huge. There's no way it can stay hidden forever.


Sorry we melted that thing down for scrap during WWII.
 
2010-08-03 02:44:44 PM  
tehresistance.files.wordpress.com
 
2010-08-03 02:45:29 PM  

Racht: BKITU:
The specific wording in Genesis describes the location as the crossing point of four rivers -- two of which are nowhere to be found (at least near the Tigris and Euphrates).

You know how Springfield borders Ohio, Nevada, Maine, and Kentucky? Same idea.

Yeah, I'm aware. But the Tigris and Euphrates are only close to each other in Iraq, if I remember my geography correctly. I'd assume the other two refer to tributaries that were either renamed or the landscape was changed in one of the numerous tidal basin floods.

/yes, I know it's a damn story, just making fun of the fact that this mythical paradise is in all likelihood referring to a farking desert full of brown people evangelicals love to hate


Well, a YEC might say that a after The FloodTM two of those rivers weren't around any longer. Of course, if the flood re-arranged the landscape as much as the YECs like to claim it did, then there's no reason to call any of the rivers by the same name, but whatever.
 
2010-08-03 02:46:17 PM  

WrestlerManager: In an area that has become significantly more arid in the past 6,000 or so years, it is possible that some rivers have dried up.


The Ark of the Covenant was never carried across a river, so even if the waters from the flood evaporated in the last few millennia, you wouldn't find an Ark at the bottom of any of the waters. Furthermore, the Ark was made after the flood.
 
2010-08-03 02:47:41 PM  
Baudolino, et al, seen acting nonchalantly nearby.
 
2010-08-03 02:49:02 PM  
Have they found St. Hubbins yet?
 
2010-08-03 02:49:31 PM  

timujin: But it's enough for the religious. You know, what with faith and all meaning they don't have to have what you might call evidence, they just have to really, really believe it's true.

/like clapping your hands will keep fairies from dying


I don't know what's worse. Fundies or people taking ugly potshots at them like this.
 
2010-08-03 02:51:05 PM  

SphericalTime


Isn't there a cult in Iraq that believes that John was the messiah, not Jesus? I could have sworn that I read something about that.


He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy. Now bugger off!
 
2010-08-03 02:51:53 PM  
Another FARK® anti-religion thread?

Really, for a bunch of people who hate religion, ya'all seem to talk about it endlessly. Really.

Oh, and the raging ignorance displayed is about as bad as listening to "new-earth creationists" trying to poke holes in modern cosmology and evolution, too. Seems to be two sides of the same the dumb coin.
 
2010-08-03 02:53:32 PM  
another fark religious thread full of smug atheists.
what more needs to be said, because they are already right?

imgs.xkcd.com

/personally I think it's a somewhat cool story, but i doubt it's his bones and if it is, does it make a difference?
// my understanding was that the whole fertile area where the garden is now arid. I mean when the egyptians built the pyramids it was a lush area not the middle of the desert, which goes for a lot of the middle east.
 
2010-08-03 02:53:49 PM  

apeiron242: Have they found St. Hubbins yet?


His remains are buried beneath the site of the original Florsheim factory in Chicago.
 
2010-08-03 02:56:21 PM  

TsukasaK: timujin: But it's enough for the religious. You know, what with faith and all meaning they don't have to have what you might call evidence, they just have to really, really believe it's true.

/like clapping your hands will keep fairies from dying

I don't know what's worse. Fundies or people taking ugly potshots at them like this.


You sound concerned. Maybe if theists had more than bronze age books and belief we could take them more seriously.

There's a dragon in my garage. (new window)
 
2010-08-03 02:57:14 PM  

VictorOfBorge:
Really, for a bunch of people who hate religion, ya'all seem to talk about it endlessly.


It's a thread on *religion*, specifically specious archeological claims. What percentage of Fark posters do you think actually believe the earth is 6000 years old?
 
2010-08-03 03:01:58 PM  

MetaRinka: another fark religious thread full of smug atheists.
what more needs to be said, because they are already right?


I've seen that XKCD comic used a few times now in the last day. It's kind of funny, because it's like all these people (yourself included) were going around looking for bricks to throw but they couldn't find any. Suddenly XKCD comes out with a new comic and everyone is like, "HOLY SHIAT THAT'S BRILIANT LULZ THJAT'S MY NEW LINE!!!1"

I find it terribly humorous -- kind of like greeting cards. Can't write how you feel? Go pay someone else to do it for you.

It's also terribly ironic that people who are trying to use the comic against Atheists are also trying to annoy Atheists with it. It kind of defeats the purpose of the comic when your side is "Atheists are so smug, so annoying, I'll drop this comic here to let them know just how annoying they are."
 
2010-08-03 03:03:40 PM  
They did find a tooth, so all they have to do is see if it matches his dental records.
 
2010-08-03 03:06:30 PM  

TsukasaK: I don't know what's worse. Fundies or people taking ugly potshots at them like this.


ugly potshot? Where in my comment do you find a flaw in my opinion of the religious? Faith is believe without evidence.
 
2010-08-03 03:09:50 PM  

timujin:
ugly potshot? Where in my comment do you find a flaw in my opinion of the religious? Faith is believe without evidence.


"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." - Hebrews 11:1

I don't think it's an "ugly potshot" to point out that the entire basis of religious belief is faith, which is when someone believes something to be true without evidence. If you ask a sufficiently intellectually honest Christian, they'll admit that. As the case may be, that's the reason why I personally couldn't justify holding those beliefs, but I don't presume to judge others or their thought processes.
 
2010-08-03 03:13:34 PM  

timujin: ignite ice: The Ark of the Covenant was hidden by God. In Revelations, it says that the Ark was seen in the Temple of God in Heaven. It is likely never going to found. There are many rumors about its location, but no one has ever offered definitive proof for its whereabouts. Like The Garden of Eden, its location is protected.

Poe's Law


That is exactly what my dad believes.

BKITU: The specific wording in Genesis describes the location as the crossing point of four rivers -- two of which are nowhere to be found (at least near the Tigris and Euphrates).

You know how Springfield borders Ohio, Nevada, Maine, and Kentucky? Same idea.


A little more information on that mythology:

The name of the first is Pishon, the one that winds through the whole land is Havilah, where the gold is. (The gold of that land is good; bdellium is there, and lapis lazuli). The name of the second river is Gihon, the one that winds through the whole land of Cush. The name of the third river is Hiddekel (Tigris), the one that flows east of Asshur. And the fourth river is the Perat (Euphrates)."

The Pishon and Gihon are thought by some to be the Red and Blue Nile, and something about rivers changing direction after a big disaster and the flooding of the eastern Med.
 
2010-08-03 03:27:07 PM  
Oh goody more "sacred relics". There must be a forest of pieces of the cross and enough bones to assemble more than a few saints. BTW wasn't this part of an Agatha Christie mystery? Calling David Suchet.
 
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