Some say "horrific example of man's inhumanity to man," others say "business opportunity."

Have the Japanese acknowledged and apologized for the shocking amount of atrocities they committed in China during the war?

Good.

notmtwain: A good start, I thought but that's it. He blames his government. He puts no blame on the people of Japan. I don't see any apology.

Let me know when you personally apologize for Vietnam, then.

Churchill2004: More dramatic, but using a single plane to kill 100,000 people is no more morally abhorrent than using 100 planes to kill 100,000 people.

Sure it is. Using 100 planes would take longer and give the enemy a chance to surrender before casualties made it up to 100,000. To have them all die because of one single event that has a sudden point of no return is like going "all in" when your opponent has a fraction of the chips that you have.

um...why would we apologize? I don't get it.

I think the issue is more about what should be discussed about nuclear weapons TODAY and in the future, not about 1945.

1945 is now 65 years in the past. But issues of who has nuclear weapons and when or if they should be used haven't gone away. Remember, in the NPT, the "nuclear having countries" were supposed to eventually disarm as their part of the bargain, in exchange for the "not-having countries" not seeking the bomb. Whether that will ever happen is up for debate, but certainly it comes up all the time in the rhetoric for why various countries are seeking the bomb.

itazurakko: notmtwain: A good start, I thought but that's it. He blames his government. He puts no blame on the people of Japan. I don't see any apology.

Let me know when you personally apologize for Vietnam, then.

The French started Vietnam, not us.

Weaver95: um...why would we apologize? I don't get it.

No one is asking for that.

Mentat: The French started Vietnam, not us.

But you very happily went in and caused all sorts of death and destruction, after they kicked the Japanese out, the US was happy with the idea of other colonizers waltzing right back in there.

But my main point is, the guy in the article that got quoted above was 14 when the bomb fell. He mourns his classmates, not his army buddies or his corporate coworkers or his conservative voting friends or whatever else. It's not so surprising that he's not going to personally apologize for his country's atrocities in WW2.

notmtwain: I think much of America, including me, feels guilty about many of the things we did in that war and the needless suffering and death we caused in a mistaken cause. There, I said it. I'm sorry.

Your turn.

Huh?

itazurakko: notmtwain: I think much of America, including me, feels guilty about many of the things we did in that war and the needless suffering and death we caused in a mistaken cause. There, I said it. I'm sorry.

Your turn.

Huh?

HE JUST FARKING PERSONALLY APOLOGIZED FOR VIETNAM!

War is Hell. But thanks to those who died at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we live in a world where the idea of nuclear war is so abhorent that we haven't had another one... Despite 70 years of itchy trigger fingers.

jaylectricity: HE JUST FARKING PERSONALLY APOLOGIZED FOR VIETNAM!

Well bully for him! I presume he was an adult when that happened, then?

Because I was five when that ended. Meanwhile, Japan hasn't gotten in any wars in my lifetime, though lately they've been aiding the US in theirs (and this has caused controversy).

Either way, no one is asking the US to apologize for the bomb, only to be sincere about the deaths and "RIP," which they always are, so I'm not sure how this is any sort of controversy, even reading TFA. People are pleased the envoy is coming.

The discussion is about what to do about nuclear weapons today, to keep that 70 years going. This is as it always is, on the agenda for these things.

Some people want full disarmament, others think it's unrealistic, people worry about the NPT, people worry about the nuclear-having countries that haven't signed it, people wonder about what Kim is up to, people wonder about the state of testing. You know, modern issues.

jaylectricity: Sure it is. Using 100 planes would take longer and give the enemy a chance to surrender before casualties made it up to 100,000.


You haven't watched much footage from WWII, have you? A hundred bombers could hit a city in a few hours at most, the Japanese had three days between the first and second bombs and didn't surrender.

I'm genuinely curious as to whether or not the Japanese have ever formally apologized for bombing the shiat out of Pearl Harbor.

Anybody know?

Quasar: Have the Japanese acknowledged and apologized for the shocking amount of atrocities they committed in China during the war? REDACTED

Seriously. Read The Rape of Nanking (new window) and never feel sorry for atomic bombs ever again.

Weaver95: um...why would we apologize? I don't get it.

Same here.

Again, got to ask, before we apologize for something that was legitimate and reasonable, are the Japanese going to apologize for what they did to Chinese civilians?

They started it. And they fought alongside with a regime that attempted genocide. Yeah it sucks that we killed civilians. But we've been killing civilians from our inception until, what time is it now?

notmtwain: He is old and is a direct survivor of the blast. One would expect him to have extreme feelings.

However, he feels free to express his hatred. It makes me think that the issue of Japanese militarism is still relevant. Put the bomb in his hands and he would consider using it.

I am curious-- if you are Japanese or have Japanese ancestry (your name, Itazurakko, makes me wonder-- though you could just be a mischievous fanboy), do you think most Japanese or those of Japanese ancestry (that you know) place significant blame on the Japanese people for the war? My impression is that most do not-- instead blaming evil leaders, etc.

People who have lived through war the world over have such feelings. Japan is no different in that regard. If someone bombs your city and kills your family, you might be hateful. It's a human thing, and it doesn't have anything to do with big fancy notions of "who started it."

What "basic philosophies" do you think people should change? Do you seriously think the people are all monolithic? I'm not going to be representative of anything.

I will say that most people do accept the country was at fault and yes you can find speeches to that affect with various sorts of apologies on Wikipedia too.

But this notion that somehow Japan is the one country out of all others that denies its history (or worse yet, that supposedly no one knows its history) is just as much a myth as the idea that Japan did nothing bad in the war.

Yes, the government started a war. Yes, there was popular representation in the government and it'd be crazy to imply that no one wanted it. But countries aren't monolithic either. FWIW, when I was in school there was mention of the atrocities in our textbook, we had to learn a word which translates to "big torture murders of Nanjing" and there was lots of talk about how militarism is the problem (this was in the 80's). Yeah, there's the textbook controversies. These make the national news (usually with a "crazy right wingers again" slant), so it's not as if people don't understand the issue.

The last time this topic came up I posted a frame from a kids' history comic that shows the unit 731 gassing people. In a popular kid's book.

The only reason I even came into this thread is because someone snarked above that a 14 year old kid wasn't taking personal responsibility or feeling personal guilt at what went on. He was farking FOURTEEN, for heaven's sakes.

Never mind all the people who were born afterward.

Japan at this point is a place where some people get weirded out even at the notion of using the national anthem, because it's nationalistic. Can you even imagine that in the US where the flag is plastered over every surface? Sure, you'll find people who backlash against that and want to go the other way too.

But part of the problem, IMHO, is that so much was brushed under the rug for political reasons (involving the Cold War) and so was written off. That's certainly not only Japan's problem.

Anyway, lunchtime.

Yeah, ask the Japanese government about Unit 731 then talk to me about humanity...

We don't owe them an apology.

OVER?!?!?!

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!?!?

/Edwards Demming surrenders

'We're sorry we used the bomb and ended the war. But ya'll didn't seem to get the hint after Iwo Jima. We really wish that we had invaded your shiathole country so several millions more of you had died in the effort instead. But, alas nobody is perfect.'

/How did I do?

DSan: However, Japan pushed us over the edge with Pearl Harbor and they had it coming. We also wanted to send a clear message to Germany.

Um have you ever studied History?