I have problems like this pretty much every time I take my niece any where mostly I get the evil eye though and do not have to speak to police. I am not very upset about it, but it does waste time. When her brother is with us things go a lot better.

dittybopper: This raises an interesting question. Just what *ARE* signs of abuse?

*removes his snark sweater

Relatively serious moment here. Here are some signs that a child is suffering from some sort of abuse beyond just the physically obvious.

Withdrawn, or suddenly withdrawn. A normal outgoing child suddenly becoming withdrawn and solitary is a giant red flag

Emotional extremes. All children from toddlers on up through teens experience these, but the ones coming from abuse are so extreme as to warrant physical restraint during anger outbursts or inconsolable crying at the lows.

Acting inappropriately out of the age range. Either reverting to infantilism in older, or younger children taking on adult things... even to the extreme of sexual advances.

Run aways.... nearly 2/3 of all run away kids have experience some form of abuse (typically neglect)

*dons his snark sweater again

myspamhere: What if it were a Female middle school teacher and her 14 year old male student? Nothing suspicious there.

That's when you blackmail them and call dibs on her butt.

tonesskin: NTidd: Just go talk to the guy, problem solved.

About what? If someone at a campground came up to me and said, "Sir, are you going to molest this child?" I'd tell them that I planned to cook her. I mean, what the fark kind of nosy bullshiat is going to talk to the guy? About WHAT?

Upcoming article: tonesskin arrested and sentenced to chemical castration followed by beheading. "He was a very cheeky fellow and responded to my inquiries with a very sarcastic tone."

cryinoutloud:
Uh, so did mine. I wasn't talking about going camping, I'm talking about going on an extended road trip to "see the country." Little kids don't have any appreciation of that.

That's not true. I appreciated the trips my Dad took me on 40 years ago.
My grown children have thanked me for talking them. Of course, if you do it wrong it sucks for the kid but that's a different thing.

Danger Mouse: tonesskin: Danger Mouse: No. It's more of a pet peeve when people stop dealing with what actually happend and start to make over exagerated hypothetical situations.

Uh, it DOES happen, moran. Dear lord.


References please.

Ok, how's this? It's from an article in the Denver post, which can be read in full here: http://www.childrensjustice.org/children-trapped-dpost.html. (It mentions statistics nationally, not just in Denver.)

Of the 313 kidnappings in Colorado between 1998 and 2001, 210 (66 percent) were done by family members, usually the consequence of custody disputes, Koellner said.

Available statistics suggest that the percentage of family kidnappings is similar or even higher nationally. In 1999, 203,900, or 78 percent of 262,100 total kidnappings, were carried out by family members, according to the National Incidence Studies of Missing, Abducted, Runaway and Thrownaway Children.

quietwalker: My
Why don't we see that report? I'd rather hear about a fictional mass murderer than a crime report on a man accused - and found guilty - of camping.

Quit camping, farkers. Yeah sure, sniping involves skill, but so help me, I'm gonna flamethrower your scoped ass from here to gravel pit and back.

/Not backburner though, that's for noobs.

Danger Mouse: You know if there was a problem and this girl ended up being abducted and raped, half the folks here would be screaming "how the fark can a 52 year old man a young girl into the woods, without anyone raising an eyebrow.!!!!?

/cant' have it both ways.

This! I don't know which way we want to have it, but we have to make choices and live with the consequences. If we are going to err on the side of caution, men are going to answer the OK Cupid question of the lost kid by saying "Doing Nothing." And we can't biatch about the kid who was lost in the store and wondered onto the freeway and ran over by a car because a man didn't want to be accused of kidnapping or worse.

What the article doesn't state is exactly which behaviors triggered the police involvement? Was an Amber alert going on? Or was it an old looking man with a young girl? We don't know if it was hysterics or a good faith misreading of the situation (for example, he kept the girl in the car, or kept her really close or wouldn't let her speak). Some things can honestly be ambiguous.

dittybopper: I just don't see why, absent some other sign, why this should have resulted in a call to the police.

In this instance. Asking for secluded camp sight, older male and younger girl not from that area.

Its questionable but I can see where some people would get in a tizzy over it.

StarshipPooper: That's when you blackmail them and call dibs on her butt.You sicko, she's 9. 9 man, that's just wrong, even for Fark.

Had the guy had appeared suffeciently

1) White
2) Christian
3) well off

There would be no issue, and we all know it.

amaranthe: Danger Mouse: tonesskin: Danger Mouse: No. It's more of a pet peeve when people stop dealing with what actually happend and start to make over exagerated hypothetical situations.

Uh, it DOES happen, moran. Dear lord.


References please.

Ok, how's this? It's from an article in the Denver post, which can be read in full here: http://www.childrensjustice.org/children-trapped-dpost.html. (It mentions statistics nationally, not just in Denver.)

Of the 313 kidnappings in Colorado between 1998 and 2001, 210 (66 percent) were done by family members, usually the consequence of custody disputes, Koellner said.

Available statistics suggest that the percentage of family kidnappings is similar or even higher nationally. In 1999, 203,900, or 78 percent of 262,100 total kidnappings, were carried out by family members, according to the National Incidence Studies of Missing, Abducted, Runaway and Thrownaway Children.


WOW. Blink. Just wow.

Do you even know what I was talking about?

dittybopper: amaranthe: Maybe just ask the girl (without him standing over her) if everything is OK, and see if she demonstrates anything that could be considered signs of abuse...

/Kids get bruises all the time. What ARE signs of abuse? I don't know. May have to ask her right out if he touches her or something... Yeah, that isn't going to work either. Got nothing.

//Would still rather check and be wrong than assume 'he's the dad so it's all good all the time' and be wrong about that.

This raises an interesting question. Just what *ARE* signs of abuse? I'm a foster parent, and I had a toddler-aged child come into my care because CPS had yanked the kid from his home, based upon the word of a relative, and spotting bruises on the kid.

It became obvious in the first hour the child was in our care that the bruises were due to the fact that the kid was a very physical daredevil who liked to climb on things and jump off, and he only had two speeds: Stop, and full speed ahead. The relative happened to be in kind of a feud with the (single) mother. While the allegations the relative made weren't necessarily complete falsehoods, they weren't the entire truth either, and the relative knew they'd be prejudicial against the mother in the eyes of a Child Protective Services worker whose mandate is to get kids out of potentially dangerous situations.

It took the mother over a month to get her kid back, which was *FAST*, because she did everything the judge asked and even the judge saw that it was mostly a bullshiat case. I'd like to say this kind of thing is uncommon, but I don't think it really is. I've heard of similar cases. And it always happens to the people least able to effectively defend themselves.

My kid is the most subdued, cautious toddler I've ever seen. It's like he has an old soul. His legs are constantly covered in bruises, scrapes, and something he calls splids. Before him, I thought bruises on the legs were a sure sign of an evil parent.

hhhhhhhhhumert

Benevolent Misanthrope: Frankly, I'd raise an eyebrow at a father looking specifically for a secluded spot to spend time alone with his young daughter. If the kid showed any sign of being abused, I'd be outright suspicious.

Have you ever actually been camping? Most drive-up campgrounds are full of obnoxious day-tripping assholes. Asking for a secluded camp site is standard procedure to get away from RVs full of loud music, drunk farkheads, and barking dogs.

I only stay in such places on the first night of a backpacking trip when I first get into the park, then head into the backcountry at first light.

The asshole factor drops off logarithmically the farther you get from the parking lot. You can almost feel the stink dissipate as you walk. By five miles in, everyone is usually pretty cool, if you even see anyone else.

StarshipPooper: So what would you do if it was a black guy with a white girl or a white guy with a black girl?

You know, those super rare births like that Nigerian couple or the kid could have been adopted. Actually in that case it would be a white guy with an Asian girl then.

Like Woody Allan?

As a creepy old man with a young daughter, I think they're farking morons to call the police with exactly no evidence that a crime was being committed. If he was waving his meat around, then by all means - but this was just old women (male or female) who watch too much Nancy Grace and think there's nothing scarier in the world than a penis.

This happened in a nearby park. A guy was sitting on a bench watching his 10 year old play. A police cruiser vroomed up and over the curb, onto the grass, and stopped just short of him. Two cops questioned the dad for about 30 minutes then gave up on him.

Dunno who called in the tip. Cops seemed pissed at whoever did. They ticketed whatever they could find in the parking lot - probably an expired tag and a few fix it tickets - then left.

True Story. Cool Story. Bro.

Anybody who's terrified of their kids being kidnapped had better never, ever, ever allow their kid on a busy street, even in a car.

Odds are, if you don't die of disease, you'll die in traffic. If you're afraid of anything more than traffic and your health, you're an idiot.

Fano: Repetitive bruises are the ones suspicious of abuse - ie, you have a fresh bruise with several faded ones underneath.

How many doorknobs can you fall on before you start asking why they keep getting hit in the same place?

My toddler has had that. I've seen him bang his head on the same spot three times in the same day. He's just a hyper little guy who will shake off anything that doesn't give him a massive goose-egg.

Ok is anyone RTFA?

The guy stopped at 2 different campsites and at each site
people believed he was suspicious.

The police agreeded that thier behavior did warrent investigation.


Got it. There is some case of people over reacting. There are cases where the police abuse their authority.

This doesn't appear to be one.

But this is Fark, and common sense is usually tossed aside for snarky remarks and posturing.

colinspooky: hmmm - good that the police and public have their eyes open, shame it has to be like this. Feel sorry for the pair, but then again, some men do (very extremely rarely) kidnap girls, and wouldn't we all be pleased if someone opened their mouth about it if it was our girl.
Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Sounds like it was handled quite well. Subby's inflammatory headline doesn't help with words like "creepy" when it was her father, but then again, I am sure some of those who reported it used the same language.

Since they misguessed his age by twenty years it looks like the called the cops based on only the briefest impression. All of this could've been avoided by a casual stroll over and a short friendly conversation to get a better sense of the two. Instead they jumped right to calling the cops.

There is a middle ground between doing nothing and dialing 911.

Benevolent Misanthrope: Frankly, I'd raise an eyebrow at a father looking specifically for a secluded spot to spend time alone with his young daughter.


This is gender profiling. I see no difference between this, and asking a brown person for his papers because he's brown. Can't have it both ways. Either profiling is okay or it's not.

ThrobblefootSpectre: This is gender profiling. I see no difference between this, and asking a brown person for his papers because he's brown. Can't have it both ways. Either profiling is okay or it's not.

I agree, everyone knows we can't have kids playing with scissors

This: Fano: Repetitive bruises are the ones suspicious of abuse - ie, you have a fresh bruise with several faded ones underneath.

How many doorknobs can you fall on before you start asking why they keep getting hit in the same place?

My toddler has had that. I've seen him bang his head on the same spot three times in the same day. He's just a hyper little guy who will shake off anything that doesn't give him a massive goose-egg.

Um, THIS.

2 grams: Ok is anyone RTFA?

The guy stopped at 2 different campsites and at each site
people believed he was suspicious.

The police agreeded that thier behavior did warrent investigation.


Got it. There is some case of people over reacting. There are cases where the police abuse their authority.

This doesn't appear to be one.

But this is Fark, and common sense is usually tossed aside for snarky remarks and posturing.

And yet no details from said TFA about what constitutes "suspicious" here. He stopped at a couple of sites before finding one that was not full of nosy, presumptuous assholes? Go figure?

ThrobblefootSpectre: Benevolent Misanthrope: Frankly, I'd raise an eyebrow at a father looking specifically for a secluded spot to spend time alone with his young daughter.


This is gender profiling. I see no difference between this, and asking a brown person for his papers because he's brown. Can't have it both ways. Either profiling is okay or it's not.



Really? You feel that this is a simple case of (cue scary music)....Gender Profiling (oh no!)

Honestly? You belive that the only issue that came into play was the fact it was a male?

That's quite the broad brush you have.

Profiling can be a very accurate method of solving crime, i belive it takes responable people to do it correctly and we need guildlines to ensure it isn't abused. But if you are of the mind that we must make the choice Either profiling is okay or it's not
then I am 100% for it.

2 grams: Profiling can be a very accurate method of solving crime, i belive it takes responable people to do it correctly and we need guildlines to ensure it isn't abused. But if you are of the mind that we must make the choice Either profiling is okay or it's not

I agree. Profiling is not only very effective, it's plain common sense. It is the highly contradictory situation of profiling being okay sometimes and not other times that I disagree with.

So either we start calling the police every time we see a mom with her kids, or we just go ahead and admit profiling works.

ThrobblefootSpectre: 2 grams: Profiling can be a very accurate method of solving crime, i belive it takes responable people to do it correctly and we need guildlines to ensure it isn't abused. But if you are of the mind that we must make the choice Either profiling is okay or it's not

I agree. Profiling is not only very effective, it's plain common sense. It is the highly contradictory situation of profiling being okay sometimes and not other times that I disagree with.

So either we start calling the police every time we see a mom with her kids, or we just go ahead and admit profiling works.

But you belive this instance is a simple clear cut case of gender profiling?

Or am I completely missing yuor point. I find it hard to belive that we agree on profiling but disagree about this particluar instance.

Benevolent Misanthrope: Frankly, I'd raise an eyebrow at a father looking specifically for a secluded spot to spend time alone with his young daughter.

The last time I took my kids to a public campground, we got stuck next to the college boys, who were extremely polite and friendly, until about the third beer. After that, every other word was the f-bomb. Plus in depth play-by-play descriptions of their most recent sexual encounters wet dreams. I asked them politely to knock it off, and they apologised profusely, were good for a few minutes, and then went right back to it.

It was all good, though, when they went out to the bar for the night. The idiots left their food in their tent, unsecured. No bears at this campground, but the coons and skunks had much lulzy fun. Their expensive tent and accessories were shreaded and stinky. They slept in their truck. We lol'd.

/cool story bro

So yeah, I now only camp with my kids in secluded, private sites.

Also, I think a friendly conversation would probably have taken care of this problem, without the bother of a background check.

2 grams: But you belive this instance is a simple clear cut case of gender profiling?


I suspect if this had been a female with her daughter, doing nothing wrong, then she would not have been detained, interrogated, and background checked.

We are becomming such a pussified, paranoid, negative, intolerant, fat, shock TV addicted society, it is no wonder the rest of the world laughs at us.

It is truely astonishing that we have managed to survive as long as we have.

If it had been a little boy, no one would have called anyone, and the guy would be a hero for taking his son on the trip. Guess what, he is a hero for the time he is spending with his daughter and the memories she will have for the rest of her life.

/well I feel better

bronyaur1: This sort of thing and the general reaction to it is exactly why adult males should stay as far away from children under any and every circumstance possible. If I saw a kid on fire while I was holding a fire extinguisher, I would still walk away rather than be accused of some sort of crime should I deign to put the kid out.

You precious snowflake is zillions of times more likely to be hurt or killed by your backyard pool or a car or cancer than by some shadowy pedophilic monster in the closet. But suburban soccer parents are largely stupid and frightened morons, and they vote and watch local TV news, so we get our current insanity.

As a suburban soccer parent I can vouch for that description. We scandalized our helicopter parent community when we started sending my 12 and 10-year-old daughters - together - to the grocery store for us a couple of times a week. Damn store is only six blocks away.

amaranthe: Maybe just ask the girl (without him standing over her) if everything is OK, and see if she demonstrates anything that could be considered signs of abuse...

/Kids get bruises all the time. What ARE signs of abuse? I don't know. May have to ask her right out if he touches her or something... Yeah, that isn't going to work either. Got nothing.

That's not a good Idea. Wait until the father is distracted then approach the child and ask them about their naughty parts.

/you all need to be put on the SA list.
/Note to self; put daugher's ID we had made for flying in my wallet.

Now is the absolute safest time to live in. Your children are safer now than at any time in history. If you choose not to believe that, you're a farking retard.

I wish nothing but the worse on the pieces of dog shiat that called the police on the dad.

"I'm just pointing at this at another example of a ridiculous problem we seem to be having- the fact of a father being alone with his son or daughter should not invite suspicion, period- and it DOES, more often than is warranted, because of this stupid hysteria."

Amen on that, a custodial parent has a legal responsibility to keep their child safe, regardless of the genders involved.

Do you think people are so suspicious because dads (on average) aren't spending enough time with their kids (so it's 'weird' when they do)or is it just paranoid society due to news about abuses being more available? I wonder.

If I had a daughter, damn straight she'd be spending some quality time with dad - male role models are important. My dad used to leave me at home and only take my bro camping, combined with barely speaking to me post-adolescence, we have zero relationship now.

Fano: atomsmoosher: dittybopper: amaranthe: Maybe just ask the girl (without him standing over her) if everything is OK, and see if she demonstrates anything that could be considered signs of abuse...

/Kids get bruises all the time. What ARE signs of abuse? I don't know. May have to ask her right out if he touches her or something... Yeah, that isn't going to work either. Got nothing.

//Would still rather check and be wrong than assume 'he's the dad so it's all good all the time' and be wrong about that.

This raises an interesting question. Just what *ARE* signs of abuse? I'm a foster parent, and I had a toddler-aged child come into my care because CPS had yanked the kid from his home, based upon the word of a relative, and spotting bruises on the kid.

I remember our pediatrician once saying that he would be more concerned if he DIDN'T find bruises on our kids leg. I can't recall a time when my two year-old hasn't had a skinned knee since he's started walking.

Repetitive bruises are the ones suspicious of abuse - ie, you have a fresh bruise with several faded ones underneath.

How many doorknobs can you fall on before you start asking why they keep getting hit in the same place?

Do the kids change height that fast? Does the doorknob move altitudes? Do kids always remember to not run in their socks on the hardwood floor and slide out on the corner into the hall closet door?

My 38 year old sister has a permananet dimple in her hip from repeated falls on a toy box corner. No matter how many times my parents moved it she would still find a way to fall against that same place with that same hip, after 4 times they got rid of it but the damage had been done and the layered bruises swelled then sunk permanantly into a quarter sized dimple. I know, cool story big bro

Depending on a child's age and height anything from cofee tables, countertops, doorknobs etc... are attractive nuisances or head trauma zones. My friend's 18 month old climbed their entertainment center to the 3rd shelf in the amount of time it took me to pull a pan from the oven and put it on the table...under 15 seconds.

With some kids being a helicopter parent isn't even possible or enough. Some just have to learn in the school of hard knocks (to the head).

2 grams: Ok is anyone RTFA?

The guy stopped at 2 different campsites and at each site
people believed he was suspicious.

The police agreeded that thier behavior did warrent investigation.


Got it. There is some case of people over reacting. There are cases where the police abuse their authority.

This doesn't appear to be one.

But this is Fark, and common sense is usually tossed aside for snarky remarks and posturing.

Posturing? Are you trying to keep me from reclining my seat?