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(Boston Globe)   Federal government orders company to pay employees $341,000 for uncompensated overtime. Company cuts employees' pay by $341,000 so everything comes out even   (boston.com) divider line 45
    More: Obvious, hourly workers, overtime, Upper Crust LLC, US Department of Labor  
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4545 clicks; posted to Business » on 22 Jul 2010 at 7:48 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



45 Comments   (+0 »)
   

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2010-07-22 05:45:06 PM
"The former manager - who requested anonymity because the investigation is ongoing"


AGHHHHHHH!!!!!
 
2010-07-22 06:23:56 PM
FTFA: the employees, who were mostly Brazilian immigrants and routinely worked 70 to 80 hours a week, were also changed from hourly staff to salaried employees so the company could avoid paying overtime.

Well my sympathies are clearly with the company here. It was probably an honest accounting error. I mean, who can keep track of a Brazilion workers?
 
2010-07-22 06:37:38 PM
yeah, that's not gonna work.
 
2010-07-22 07:00:46 PM
Welcome to Obama's America, where some government bureaucrat determines what "overtime" is.
 
2010-07-22 07:02:05 PM
The CEO deserves a 10% raise for this plus maybe a few million dollars in stock options.
 
2010-07-22 07:15:05 PM
Well that's certainly shady as hell.
 
2010-07-22 07:55:41 PM
Heh. My company just changed 16 positions from salaried to hourly because they are worried about FSLA. Apparently there were changes in the law a few years ago (Bush administration) and the feds are cracking down on companies not giving OT when they should.

Makes sense in a way as this should force the company to hire more employees but I doubt that will happen. Over the years, as the company shrank employees, our standard 35 hour week creeped up to 40-45 for the salaried employees. Should be interesting when we go back to 35 as there is no way management will approve OT.

The funny thing was we all worked independently, made decisions that bound the company by hiring freelancers, determined pricing for our product, managed our assigned product lines with a bit of freedom in determining plans year by year and we all have advanced degrees, which is how they decided we were exempt from OT. If we're not exempt then I don't know many white collar workers who are.
 
2010-07-22 07:56:46 PM
Let's see... $455 for a week in which the employee worked 80.5 hrs... yep, that sure is paying minimum wage there... 2 years ago.
 
2010-07-22 07:59:48 PM
Actually, that would be *less* than minimum wage, even at the old $5.25/hr rate.
 
2010-07-22 08:07:14 PM
I'm going to guess the judge will not find this amusing.
 
2010-07-22 08:08:36 PM
More time for employees to concentrate on theft.
 
2010-07-22 08:14:36 PM
The whole salary/hourly system is a mess. Do away with salary entirely, just pay everyone by the hours they work.
 
2010-07-22 08:22:26 PM
Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The whole salary/hourly system is a mess. Do away with salary entirely, just pay everyone by the hours they work.

When you're salaried, you get paid for the hours you work, but, you also get paid for the hours you don't work.

/as long as these projects get finished, we don't care how much you work
 
2010-07-22 08:36:28 PM
lordargent: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The whole salary/hourly system is a mess. Do away with salary entirely, just pay everyone by the hours they work.

When you're salaried, you get paid for the hours you work, but, you also get paid for the hours you don't work.

/as long as these projects get finished, we don't care how much you work


Management doesn't think this way, and they unfortunately have a hand in determining your raises (or lack thereof).
 
2010-07-22 08:49:32 PM
damageddude: Heh. My company just changed 16 positions from salaried to hourly because they are worried about FSLA. Apparently there were changes in the law a few years ago (Bush administration) and the feds are cracking down on companies not giving OT when they should.

Makes sense in a way as this should force the company to hire more employees but I doubt that will happen. Over the years, as the company shrank employees, our standard 35 hour week creeped up to 40-45 for the salaried employees. Should be interesting when we go back to 35 as there is no way management will approve OT.

The funny thing was we all worked independently, made decisions that bound the company by hiring freelancers, determined pricing for our product, managed our assigned product lines with a bit of freedom in determining plans year by year and we all have advanced degrees, which is how they decided we were exempt from OT. If we're not exempt then I don't know many white collar workers who are.


FWIW I am a project manager and technically a contractor, but I have freaking great bennies and am non-exempt. Time-and-a-half for even a second over 40hrs/wk.

/my boss had worked 40hrs by the end of his Wednesday evening.
//he's going to have another heart attack at this rate. :(
 
2010-07-22 08:49:52 PM
You get it now, Citizen? This is how it is. You get screwed.

FYI, the players change, but the game stays the same. I was at a good, profitable company & had a great 401k & actual retirement pension, but when we were bought by one of the bailout banks all that was out the window. No recourse, business is business. It still is. They will pass it along like a bad enchilada to the next in line.
 
2010-07-22 08:59:50 PM
House of Tards: Welcome to Obama's America, where some government bureaucrat determines what "overtime" is.

Ummm, government DOES determine what overtime is. Called labor laws. You are either trolling, or you actually mean what you type.

Either way, please STFU.

\Conservative.
 
2010-07-22 09:08:34 PM
Thanks to the submitter for posting this. It would never make the mainstream media.
 
2010-07-22 09:15:01 PM
Meh. One more reason to never go there again.
 
2010-07-22 09:34:02 PM
lilbjorn: Meh. One more reason to never go there again.

Would you pay more for pizza if they took it up the pooper like the government wants them to?

If you ran the company, would you bet on it? Or take evasive action?
 
2010-07-22 09:50:33 PM
somemoron: House of Tards: Welcome to Obama's America, where some government bureaucrat determines what "overtime" is.

Ummm, government DOES determine what overtime is.


You need to lighten up at time and a half, Francis.
 
2010-07-22 09:50:59 PM
There is a big old exemption in the Federal Standards list for IT workers, poor bastards. They can work you till you bleed, no OT pay for you. I'm sure the guys that pushed that thru thought it would only apply to H1B visa holding indentureds from unspellablestan. Turns out its everybody.

The company tried to fark my friend with this exemption thing last week; the company excuse was she was considered "management", so was exempt from being paid OT. Until the gal's lawyer asked to see who it was that reported to my friend as their supervisor, what papers my friend signs to authorize spending any company money, etc. So it boiled down to: promote her to an ACTUAL manager at manager level pay, then rape her with the OT exemption all they wanted... or fark off and pay her what she was owed for the hours they made her stay late and on weekends. The money the company tried to "save" by shorting her overtime was less than the new salary and benefits package as a manager.

The punch line: as a newly minted manager, her first project is to find ways to control overtime costs in the company.
 
2010-07-22 09:54:48 PM
cchris_39: Would you pay more for pizza if they took it up the pooper like the government wants them to?

Funny who's taking it up the pooper in your book. The employees were clearly being illegally underpaid in violation of a whole mess of employment laws. Employer was told to make it up. Employer now apparently illegally underpaid employees in violation of a whole mess of employment laws. In short, the employees were taking it up the pooper.

Now, if the employer was pocketing the profits from ill-gotten gains, that is, illegally underpaying employees, which is to say stealing from employees what they were owed, the employer will not be taking it up the pooper; the employer will simply not be stealing from anyone.

If the employer was using the profits from ill-gotten gains to lower prices while everyone else was playing by the books, he was putting it up the pooper of all the competition. In short, he was stealing from employees to illegally beat the competition.

So what this means is that one or two sets of people will no longer be taking it up the pooper. Having to play by the rules is not taking it up the pooper, except in your strange pathetic little world.

In other words, STFU and realize the Ayn Rand you worship so much was in love with a fking child dismemberer.
 
2010-07-22 10:01:46 PM
KiwDaWabbit: Management doesn't think this way, and they unfortunately have a hand in determining your raises (or lack thereof).

This depends entirely on the company.

If you work extra hard and finish projects when it's crunch time, then when there aren't as many projects, they are really lenient,

To the point where the director would essentially shut down our department for 2 hours to take us to a fancy lunch.

On the flip side of the coin, when it was crunch time, we would often wind up eating lunch at our desks.

Any Pie Left: There is a big old exemption in the Federal Standards list for IT workers, poor bastards. They can work you till you bleed, no OT pay for you.

Offer not valid in California, apparently. They just did a huge title review here and my salaried position became hourly.

The end result is that I'm still working the same sort of hours as before, but now I get OT for it @ 1.5x my rate (and with the amount of work/OT I have, it basically increased my yearly pay by about 25k).

/However, the position 1 level above me is salaried (they basically raised the separator 1 rung). And I'm betting that I'll end up in that position next performance review.
 
2010-07-22 10:03:23 PM
KiwDaWabbit: Management doesn't think this way, and they unfortunately have a hand in determining your raises (or lack thereof).

Ohh, and given the current state of the economy, it's always crunch time now.
 
2010-07-22 10:28:58 PM
KiwDaWabbit: Management doesn't think this way, and they unfortunately have a hand in determining your raises (or lack thereof).

Depends on where you work, I guess. Management at my company absolutely thinks this way. My boss literally said to me "All I care about is that you deliver results, I don't care where, when, or how long it takes - just deliver results on time."

It's the entire corporate philosophy where I work (And I work for a very large company) - No one cares if you work 30 hours a week or 90 as long as you deliver.
 
2010-07-22 10:43:36 PM
KiwDaWabbit: Management doesn't think this way, and they unfortunately have a hand in determining your raises (or lack thereof).

That's pretty variable. I work for a Big Evil Insurance Company, and they really don't care how long I work, or at what hours, as long as I get everything done, don't unduly hinder others' work, and don't miss any important meetings. I'd much rather be exempt than not, no worry about accounting for my time, and no worry about getting enough hours.
 
2010-07-22 10:48:14 PM
stucka: Now, if the employer was pocketing the profits from ill-gotten gains, that is, illegally underpaying employees, which is to say stealing from employees what they were owed, the employer will not be taking it up the pooper; the employer will simply not be stealing from anyone.

If the employer was using the profits from ill-gotten gains to lower prices while everyone else was playing by the books, he was putting it up the pooper of all the competition. In short, he was stealing from employees to illegally beat the competition.


But what if the employer were doing it in a noble cause, like bankrolling the Atlas Shrugged trilogy? That way everyone who saw the movie would be taking it up the proverbial pooper.
 
2010-07-22 10:50:46 PM
lordargent: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The whole salary/hourly system is a mess. Do away with salary entirely, just pay everyone by the hours they work.

When you're salaried, you get paid for the hours you work, but, you also get paid for the hours you don't work.

/as long as these projects get finished, we don't care how much you work


ONLY IN AMERICA!!! and thank god for that... cause I'm in that boat. I got my work done in half the time you requested...I'm going home
 
2010-07-22 11:53:13 PM
SusanIvanova: KiwDaWabbit: Management doesn't think this way, and they unfortunately have a hand in determining your raises (or lack thereof).

That's pretty variable. I work for a Big Evil Insurance Company, and they really don't care how long I work, or at what hours, as long as I get everything done, don't unduly hinder others' work, and don't miss any important meetings. I'd much rather be exempt than not, no worry about accounting for my time, and no worry about getting enough hours.


Yep, it all depends on the type of environment you work in.
 
2010-07-23 12:12:16 AM
somemoron: House of Tards: Welcome to Obama's America, where some government bureaucrat determines what "overtime" is.

Ummm, government DOES determine what overtime is. Called labor laws. You are either trolling, or you actually mean what you type.

Either way, please STFU.

\Conservative.


\Secondeded....ed?
 
2010-07-23 12:15:37 AM
Interesting how the government creates an exploitable workforce through it's various interventions regarding immigration and workplace rules and then tries to patch it up with a lawsuit award only for that workforce to be exploited again because the underlying conditions are unchanged.

Hmm... if only we had a system where these workers could just get another job easily instead?
 
2010-07-23 01:02:42 AM
Bring back slavery! That'll end any wage concerns...

/And those kids, awfully cocky they are
//An 18hr shift in the mines will wipe the smile off their faces
 
2010-07-23 01:03:18 AM
Making people quit to keep their settlement checks ALSO violates FLSA.

Some companies just don't learn.
 
2010-07-23 06:40:50 AM
lordargent: When you're salaried, you get paid for the hours you work, but, you also get paid for the hours you don't work.

I'm salary + OT, so I'm getting a kick...

I was fortunate enough to change positions about 18 months ago, when a new department formed. When the rest of the company was cutting positions, and not approving OT, our little department had the budget, so not only do we get OT (as much as we want, really), we were some of the few that actually got raises. Still, they played fast and loose with the ratings so the raises were basically throwing us a bone. Still, some contemporaries of mine were working 60-70 hours a week because of all the layoffs. They could even be okay with not getting the OT, but they also got screwed out of 401(k) and pension contributions as well as PTO accrural.

The executives, of course, still enjoyed their sweet, sweet bonuses.
 
2010-07-23 06:47:28 AM
cchris_39: Would you pay more for pizza

If they had a quality product and were a conscientious, ethical employer, why yes, yes I would.

The independent grocery store I shop at is union, and makes a huge effort to stock local products and has the best meat counter in town. Do I pay a little more each week to keep the money local (and my daughter employed in the Deli)?

You betcha.
 
2010-07-23 10:28:25 AM
House of Tards: somemoron: House of Tards: Welcome to Obama's America, where some government bureaucrat determines what "overtime" is.

Ummm, government DOES determine what overtime is.

You need to lighten up at time and a half, Francis.


HaHa! U trol him!!!

Pathetic.
 
2010-07-23 10:30:20 AM
The troll is strong with this thread.
 
2010-07-23 10:49:03 AM
lordargent: Offer not valid in California, apparently. They just did a huge title review here and my salaried position became hourly.

Same happened to me as a programmer (for a CA-based company), but they found a way to make it suck:

They set my hourly rate such that I have to do 40 hours straight time + 5 hours of overtime, each week, to make what I made before. (I used to work 40 hours, if that, because I see no future in my industry; that's also why I never rose above the ranks that got made hourly).

This screws up things like vacation: If I take any vacation, I either have to do 47.5 hours that week (because 1.5x OT doesn't kick in until 40 hours of WORK, not counting vacation), or do some extra time another week, to avoid coming up short (relative to before).

Also things happen like: vendor/customer comes in that I'd usually deal with, I have to leave them alone for lunch, because I have to be clocked out (duty-free) for 1/2 hour each day,

Any benefits dependent on salary (like life insurance) have been reduced to the 40-hour level (a 16% reduction).

Still beats losing the job entirely.

/Clocked in right now
 
2010-07-23 10:51:10 AM
The Homer Tax: It's the entire corporate philosophy where I work (And I work for a very large company) - No one cares if you work 30 hours a week or 90 as long as you deliver.

Umm, don't they just then increase your workload until it takes you 90 hours to get it all done?

/Farking moral hazard, how does it work?
 
2010-07-23 10:54:30 AM
Gaseous Anomaly: Same happened to me as a programmer (for a CA-based company), but they found a way to make it suck:

I forgot one upside:

Director of development emails everybody with a "call to arms"; "we need people to put in some time this weekend to get [I forget] done".

I go to him (as my immediate manager is out that day) and ask if it applies to me. Nope.

/Good way to see where company priorities lie
 
2010-07-23 11:17:56 AM
I'm salary, i'm a contractor, and I do work for a federal client, sure I'll clock 50-60 hours a week, but a lot of that is sampling and travel time(time in exceedance to get to the site greater than it takes for me to get to the office). So sure, I don't get overtime, and i'm away from home a lot, but I get to Fark, play Final Fantasy VI, read an awesome book about the history of the pentagon, and go to the zoo. Plus my coworker charges lunch on the company card since he claims we aren't in the office, its okay. Corporate hasn't damned us yet, so I'm pretty happy.
 
2010-07-23 12:45:41 PM
Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The whole salary/hourly system is a mess. Do away with salary entirely, just pay everyone by the hours they work.

As a business owner, I say do the opposite - everyone should be salary or paid piece rate. Hourly pay encourages a person to slack off. Hard workers like piece rate/commission. Lazy people don't.
 
2010-07-23 12:54:49 PM
This might be the last thing the managers see when the Judge finds out about their shenanigans.
thefaust.files.wordpress.com
 
2010-07-24 01:38:59 PM
"The former manager - who requested anonymity because the investigation is ongoing - said the employees, who were mostly Brazilian immigrants and routinely worked 70 to 80 hours a week, were also changed from hourly staff to salaried employees so the company could avoid paying overtime."

I remember when this corporate giveaway law went into effect.

Thanks again, GW Bush!
 
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