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(Some Guy)   Glenn Beck: If Jesus was a victim and this theology was true, he would have come back from the dead and made the Jews pay for what they did (w/video)   (newser.com) divider line 326
    More: Strange, Jews, theology, advice and consents, social justice, chalkboards, Romans, liberation theology, humility  
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9526 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jul 2010 at 6:13 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-07-15 03:03:44 PM
I've never, ever understood the blame the Jews for killing Jesus bit.

It was the Wops who did him in, no?
 
2010-07-15 03:13:06 PM
I thought it was gutless politicians pandering to religious conservatives.
 
2010-07-15 03:13:31 PM
I thought it was the gay socialists.
 
2010-07-15 03:18:05 PM
gaslight: It was the Wops who did him in, no?

The people called Romanes they go the house.
 
2010-07-15 03:21:09 PM
Heffaloo: I thought it was gutless politicians pandering to religious conservatives.

there aren't enough ohsnaps in the world. you over snapped.
 
2010-07-15 03:24:13 PM
bighasbeen: gaslight: It was the Wops who did him in, no?

The people called Romanes they go the house.


Feeling dyslexic today.
www.lafactoriadelritmo.com
 
2010-07-15 03:27:18 PM
Glenn Beck: antichrist.
 
2010-07-15 03:30:37 PM
gaslight: I've never, ever understood the blame the Jews for killing Jesus bit.

It was the Wops who did him in, no?


It's kinda like the NRA's "guns don't kill people" schtick. The Romans would have left Jesus alone, and hell, Pilate even tried to let him off, but those lousy Jews were having none of it.
 
2010-07-15 03:31:38 PM
These days, every time I hear something Glenn Beck said, I find myself reacting thusly:

"What?"
 
2010-07-15 03:32:12 PM
Beck called liberation theology a "perversion" that "is extraordinarily dangerous," because it suggests that Christians owe something to the poor or oppressed

The poor is hated even of his own neighbor, but the rich hath many friends. He that despiseth his neighbor sinneth: but he that hath mercy on the poor, happy is he.

Unless your Glenn Beck. Then you're only happy raping and murdering.
 
2010-07-15 03:32:50 PM
"Beck" is the new "Derp"
 
2010-07-15 03:35:54 PM
Jesus the Conqueror, Ahnold's comeback starring vehicle.
 
2010-07-15 03:40:25 PM
Beck is brilliant at spewing radical and offensive garbage and then backtracking and self-deprecatingly distancing himself from... himself- "See?! I can't be held accountable by what I say because I'm a moron!! Hurr durr."
 
2010-07-15 03:42:10 PM
IrateShadow: It's kinda like the NRA's "guns don't kill people" schtick. The Romans would have left Jesus alone, and hell, Pilate even tried to let him off, but those lousy Jews were having none of it.

Yeah..but the Apostles were Jews. Jesus was a Jew. So, to blame all Jews is silly. Besides, if Jesus hadn't died on the cross, there'd be no Christianity. No salvation. No chance at eternal life for Christians. So, why is it a bad thing that he was killed? I mean, hell, they even call it "GOOD Friday".

It's just a justification for xenophobia. "Oh, they're different than us. Let's go after them." Which is ridiculous. If anything, Jesus embraced those who others weren't willing to embrace. Jesus preached turning the other cheek towards one's "enemy".
 
2010-07-15 03:42:31 PM
Heffaloo: I thought it was gutless politicians pandering to religious conservatives.


Oh Bra-vo!
*clap clap clap*
 
2010-07-15 03:45:08 PM
"Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do."
"If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."
"'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Glenn Beck = FAIL
 
2010-07-15 03:47:13 PM
I think Glenn Beck is actually a troll. This is how I rationalize it anyway. I just can't accept it any other way.
 
2010-07-15 03:49:09 PM
shivashakti: Yeah..but the Apostles were Jews. Jesus was a Jew. So, to blame all Jews is silly. Besides, if Jesus hadn't died on the cross, there'd be no Christianity. No salvation. No chance at eternal life for Christians. So, why is it a bad thing that he was killed? I mean, hell, they even call it "GOOD Friday".

It's just a justification for xenophobia. "Oh, they're different than us. Let's go after them." Which is ridiculous. If anything, Jesus embraced those who others weren't willing to embrace. Jesus preached turning the other cheek towards one's "enemy".


You're dealing with people that refuse to believe that Jesus was anything other than the blonde European guy in all the paintings. And the whole thing doesn't have to make sense, it's more important than rationality: it's tradition. Passion plays have been going on since the Middle Ages and the main purpose behind those was to rile people up against the Jews.
 
2010-07-15 03:49:42 PM
shivashakti: So, to blame all Jews is silly. Besides, if Jesus hadn't died on the cross, there'd be no Christianity. No salvation. No chance at eternal life for Christians.

The same words apply to Judas. Someone had to do it.
 
2010-07-15 03:50:26 PM
xanadian: Glenn Beck = FAIL

Yeah, well if you're taking your Judeo-Christian theology from Glenn Beck, you're probably not big into scriptural exegesis or biblical hermeneutics.
 
2010-07-15 03:55:59 PM
oldernell: The same words apply to Judas. Someone had to do it.

True. But no one accepts that. They need a villain.

Interestingly, the Gnostic "Gospel of Judas" (from about 280 AD) even suggests that Jesus specifically had Judas betray him.
 
2010-07-15 04:04:01 PM
ignite ice: I think Glenn Beck is actually a troll. This is how I rationalize it anyway. I just can't accept it any other way.

DUH. IT kills me that everyone gets all WHGARRBBBL about Beck. He's the "obvious troll is obvious" and y'all keep taking the bait.
 
2010-07-15 04:12:27 PM
oh_please: ignite ice: I think Glenn Beck is actually a troll. This is how I rationalize it anyway. I just can't accept it any other way.

DUH. IT kills me that everyone gets all WHGARRBBBL about Beck. He's the "obvious troll is obvious" and y'all keep taking the bait.


"I could give a flying crap about the political process. We're an entertainment company."

-Glenn Beck, Forbes Magazine, April 26, 2010
 
2010-07-15 04:14:26 PM
Everything I've ever heard from Jewish people about the whole "Jews killed Jesus" thing is that it's the hallmark of an anti-Semite.
 
2010-07-15 04:14:55 PM
Zombies coming back from the dead to take revenge on people is probably the LEAST crazy thing that Glenn Beck believes.
 
2010-07-15 04:15:09 PM
So Beck the anti-christ?
 
2010-07-15 04:21:16 PM
oh_please: ignite ice: I think Glenn Beck is actually a troll. This is how I rationalize it anyway. I just can't accept it any other way.

DUH. IT kills me that everyone gets all WHGARRBBBL about Beck. He's the "obvious troll is obvious" and y'all keep taking the bait.


Yes, but at the same time, he does things like charge idiots to go to "Glenn Beck University", and he's planning on giving a speech in which he says he will give "The Plan" at the Lincoln Memorial -- on the same day MLK gave the "I have a dream" speech.

He tries to have it both ways: he wants his viewers to see him as completely serious, but when he's called out for his bullshiat, he goes into the "Well, I'm just a rodeo clown" act. Well, Glenn, if you're just a "rodeo clown", then don't tell your viewers you have a God-given plan to fix the country.
 
2010-07-15 04:24:17 PM
Okay, I stopped watching after he claimed that "he's never treated [his viewers] as morons".
 
2010-07-15 04:29:53 PM
Jesus advocated many things that made the power structure nervous. He called for the elimination of the estate and capital gains taxes. He spoke out in favor of a Constitutional amendment to defend opposite marriage, and another one to overturn Roe v. Wade. He spoke the truth about the Communistical intentions of net neutrality advocates. He vehemently defended the Arizona immigration law. He lectured strongly in favor of private gun ownership, even the so-called "assault weapons", which He categorized as a "meaningless leftist distinction".

All of this, and much more, enraged the collectivist / redistributionist Jewish oligarhy, and they killed Him because of it. And it's all in the Bible (take my word for this; I heard it in church, so there's no need for you to verify yourself).
 
2010-07-15 04:32:01 PM
I made it as far as 3 min into the clip before I had to turn it off. He was building a bizarre straw man argument about the left wanting to kill "cracker babies" because they would become oppressors. Good lord, what sort of person actually takes Beck seriously?
 
2010-07-15 04:32:55 PM
oh_please: DUH. IT kills me that everyone gets all WHGARRBBBL about Beck. He's the "obvious troll is obvious" and y'all keep taking the bait.

That's what people said about Hitler.

Yeah, I went there.
 
2010-07-15 04:33:31 PM
jmaster306: I made it as far as 3 min into the clip before I had to turn it off. He was building a bizarre straw man argument about the left wanting to kill "cracker babies" because they would become oppressors. Good lord, what sort of person actually takes Beck seriously?

Our parents.
 
2010-07-15 04:54:06 PM
gaslight: I've never, ever understood the blame the Jews for killing Jesus bit.

The blame came around hundreds of years later. The first xians blamed the ones who were actually to blame for this: the Romans.

However, once Xianity took over the Roman empire, well they couldn't very well start blaming themselves, no?

Not only that, but at the time the Jews were pretty much the most hated segment of the Roman population, due to a string of failed revolts, leading the Romans to hate Jews for this and other theological reasons (they had a real problem with circumcision)

At this point, it pretty much became 'It's the Jews' fault' and the nascent Catholic church really ran with it
 
2010-07-15 04:57:52 PM
Maybe he did..

You know who else made the jews pay...
 
2010-07-15 04:58:17 PM
IrateShadow: It's kinda like the NRA's "guns don't kill people" schtick. The Romans would have left Jesus alone, and hell, Pilate even tried to let him off, but those lousy Jews were having none of it.

Which goes 100% against the contemporary facts we know.

By all accounts, Pilate was a bloodthirsty monster. He had crucified thousands of Jews at this point, and he had controlled over close to a 8 battalions of Roman soldiers in his region (that's close to a THIRD of the Roman army to keep the Jews in Israel follow Roman rules (And it actually got up to half of the roman army a century later when there was another full blown rebellion)).

He had absolutely no concern whatsoever with the needs of Jews, would often stage incidents as a reason to let his troops slaughter Jews for fun.

He was so bad, so vile and so violent that he was recalled by the Roman emperor, who fired him from his job.

I mean, how much of a bloodthirsty monster do you have to be for the friggin Romans to tell you 'Steady on, mate'.

This is like Hitler saying to Mengeles 'Don't you think you're being a bit too rough on them Jews?'
 
2010-07-15 04:59:44 PM
Aarontology: Everything I've ever heard from Jewish people about the whole "Jews killed Jesus" thing is that it's the hallmark of an anti-Semite.

Yeah, if you find someone who really thinks that we killed him, you've found an anti-semite.
 
2010-07-15 05:01:04 PM
MiddleyMcCentrist: Okay, I stopped watching after he claimed that "he's never treated [his viewers] as morons".

I don't think he does, I think he truly believes what he says
 
2010-07-15 05:05:49 PM
Ok, I'm listening to the speech so far, and uh... well he's pretty much following mainline Xian thought so far.

Ok around 7:00 to 7:30 he got kinda weird
 
2010-07-15 05:08:49 PM
Tatsuma: IrateShadow: It's kinda like the NRA's "guns don't kill people" schtick. The Romans would have left Jesus alone, and hell, Pilate even tried to let him off, but those lousy Jews were having none of it.

Which goes 100% against the contemporary facts we know.

By all accounts, Pilate was a bloodthirsty monster. He had crucified thousands of Jews at this point, and he had controlled over close to a 8 battalions of Roman soldiers in his region (that's close to a THIRD of the Roman army to keep the Jews in Israel follow Roman rules (And it actually got up to half of the roman army a century later when there was another full blown rebellion)).

He had absolutely no concern whatsoever with the needs of Jews, would often stage incidents as a reason to let his troops slaughter Jews for fun.

He was so bad, so vile and so violent that he was recalled by the Roman emperor, who fired him from his job.

I mean, how much of a bloodthirsty monster do you have to be for the friggin Romans to tell you 'Steady on, mate'.

This is like Hitler saying to Mengeles 'Don't you think you're being a bit too rough on them Jews?'


Careful now partner: Judea was critical to the Roman control of the Mediterranean as the only land route around the see, but also it was right next to the Parthian Empire, enemies of Rome.

It was necessary for the Romans to hold large numbers of troops there to protect the grain supply from Egypt and to fend off any potential invasions from the East.

The Jews of Judea were a nuisance to Rome as they refused to assimilate into Roman culture, clung to their God, and pretty much rebelled every so often. That's not the kind of support that the Romans wanted/needed in that part of the world. Pilate was probably under pretty strict orders to keep the place under control by whatever means necessary.

One of Herod the Great's son's Archelaus was replaced by Augustus with Pilate when he caused a ruckus amongst the Jews... not for slaying a thousand Pharisees, but marrying someone outside the Mosaic Law.
 
2010-07-15 05:12:58 PM
10 minutes in, aside from a few Beckian disgressions, he's still firmly into mainstream xian thought.

11 minutes in, well if that other guy really said that you don't need the Bible to understand xianity, you need Marx... well Beck isn't the dumbest one featured in that video.

13 minutes in, I don't get it, except for that quote which is kind of taken out of context, what is so weird about that rant? It sounds like something that could be heard on any xian channel.

/listening to it so you don't have to
//not actually watching, cause... well...
 
2010-07-15 05:16:45 PM
I was raised Roman Catholic and was taught that the Romans were to blame. You know "...For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered, died, and was buried..."

They made me repeat that every goddamn Sunday, so I assumed they meant the Romans were at fault for Christ's execution. Regardless, it was all fantastically boring and stupid and I just don't care. If it was the Sanhedrin that fought to have Christ executed, more power to 'em. Who am I to tell them who's a heretic and who's the actual messiah? They calls 'em likes they sees 'em.
 
2010-07-15 05:16:49 PM
Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Careful now partner: Judea was critical to the Roman control of the Mediterranean as the only land route around the see, but also it was right next to the Parthian Empire, enemies of Rome.

Agreed, and they would have kept a large number of troops, but you can see that in the periods where Jews wouldn't revolt (granted, not a lot of those), the number of troops would diminish greatly.

There is no way in times of peace that they needed to keep that many troops right next to the Parthian empire. Especially considering the fact that, you know, the number of troops in the area mostly fluctuated due to the Jews revolting, and not external warfare.

Once the final Jewish revolt was tamed and they killed/expulsed 4 Jews out of 5, the numbers fell down drastically and basically never went up again

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: It was necessary for the Romans to hold large numbers of troops there to protect the grain supply from Egypt and to fend off any potential invasions from the East.

Nowhere near as large, though. The numbers went up directly in relation with the unrest of Jews in the area, and not external threats.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: The Jews of Judea were a nuisance to Rome as they refused to assimilate into Roman culture, clung to their God, and pretty much rebelled every so often. That's not the kind of support that the Romans wanted/needed in that part of the world. Pilate was probably under pretty strict orders to keep the place under control by whatever means necessary.

Agreed, yet he was considered as too bloodthirsty and cruel, and was called back because of it.
 
2010-07-15 05:20:08 PM
CitizenTed: If it was the Sanhedrin that fought to have Christ executed, more power to 'em. Who am I to tell them who's a heretic and who's the actual messiah? They calls 'em likes they sees 'em.

The death penalty was rarely applied, and at this era there is no way he would have been the only one having delusions of being a messiah.

Not only that, but just walking around in a Jewish neighbourhood saying 'Behold, I am the Messiah' would have lead to the same reaction then as today: a straightjacket, not death.

Claiming that you were the messiah wasn't something that earned you the death penalty.

Also, there is no way the Sanhedrin would outsource the death penalty to a roman court.
 
2010-07-15 05:27:30 PM
Tatsuma: The death penalty was rarely applied, and at this era there is no way he would have been the only one having delusions of being a messiah.

Not only that, but just walking around in a Jewish neighbourhood saying 'Behold, I am the Messiah' would have lead to the same reaction then as today: a straightjacket, not death.

Claiming that you were the messiah wasn't something that earned you the death penalty.

Also, there is no way the Sanhedrin would outsource the death penalty to a roman court.


So, which part of the Jesus story are you denying here (besides, obviously, all the miraculous parts)
 
2010-07-15 05:31:03 PM
Tatsuma: The numbers went up directly in relation with the unrest of Jews in the area, and not external threats.

I think we're both saying the same thing here: (1) there was an external threat that necessitated a certain number of troops, (2) because of the instability of the populace there were extra troops in Judea to quell domestic threats.

History's been cruel to Pilate, but there's not much difference between him and the other contemporary officials/rulers of that region. The farkers were brutal, man.
 
2010-07-15 05:35:46 PM
elchip: So, which part of the Jesus story are you denying here (besides, obviously, all the miraculous parts)

Heck, everything that happened in the story including the miracles could have been true, but Jews today still would not follow him. Just because a guy manages to turn water into sparkling wine and cook up enough fish and chips for a big party isn't a reason good enough to chuck the Torah and to start following him.

The reason we follow the Torah is not because Moshe Rabbeinu did miracles in front of us. It's because all the Jews stood at Sinai and hear G-d say 'Here's how it's going to happen from now on'.

And it says very clearly in our Torah that if someone comes and tries to remove even one letter from the Torah, he's a false prophet.

So, again, if a man manages to turn an stick into a gay tyrannosaur right in front of me, but then says 'It's now ok to eat the pesach sacrifice until dawn and not just until chatzos', I'll tell him to fark off
 
2010-07-15 05:36:41 PM
CitizenTed: I was raised Roman Catholic and was taught that the Romans were to blame. You know "...For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered, died, and was buried..."

Did you ever have to watch a passion play? There's a lot of focus on the actual conviction, where Pilate gives Jesus an opportunity to recant, has him beaten, gives him another opportunity to recant, then gives the crowd the choice to free him or Barabbus, a murderer. Failing that, he washes his hands (literally) of blame and claims that he's done all that he can. The whole thing is pretty clear about who the blame is on.
 
2010-07-15 05:37:36 PM
I wouldn't even know what a "Glenn Beck" was if it weren't for these threads but it appears that this character just says outrageous things to get ratings and publicity.

I don't know if Jesus existed or was the son of God, I wasn't there. And all I know about the Jews is being in the movie industry, they sign my paycheck. So I'm on the Jews' side.

Well except for getting us into all the whole terrorist thing.
 
2010-07-15 05:39:31 PM
Tatsuma: The death penalty was rarely applied, and at this era there is no way he would have been the only one having delusions of being a messiah.

Not only that, but just walking around in a Jewish neighbourhood saying 'Behold, I am the Messiah' would have lead to the same reaction then as today: a straightjacket, not death.

Claiming that you were the messiah wasn't something that earned you the death penalty.

Also, there is no way the Sanhedrin would outsource the death penalty to a roman court.


Remember, of course, that the Chief Priests were nearly on the verge of being collaborators with Rome (both Caiaphas and Annas were appointed by the Roman rulers). The probably lead a pretty cushy life for the time and didn't want to see anything upset it.

Calling yourself "messiah" would have undermined both their legitimacy and the legitimacy of Rome. If Jesus is saying that the Jews should throw off the ruling Jewish elites, that would cause social anarchy and be a direct threat to Rome.

Threat to Rome = time up on the ol' "T".
 
2010-07-15 05:40:19 PM
Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: I think we're both saying the same thing here: (1) there was an external threat that necessitated a certain number of troops, (2) because of the instability of the populace there were extra troops in Judea to quell domestic threats.

Yeah, actually

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: History's been cruel to Pilate, but there's not much difference between him and the other contemporary officials/rulers of that region. The farkers were brutal, man.

See, that's where I'd disagree. I'd say that because of xianity, the man gets a very light treatment in the eyes of the general population.

The image that people have of him is this guy who washed his hands, wanted to let Yoshke go, but was forced by an unruly Jewish mob to sacrifice him to satisfy their bloodthirstiness.

Aside from me, you and other History geeks, who knows that the man was a two-legged crucifixion machine who was deemed as too perverted and cruel compared to the rulers of his time (who were indeed brutal farkers) and was called back because of it?

He's seen as a powerless and meek bureaucrat by most.
 
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