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(National Review)   According to a new Gallup poll, conservatives now outnumber liberals in the US 2 to 1. "It seems that the tea parties, America's natural antibodies to Obamaism, have provided some vital stem-cell therapy"   (article.nationalreview.com) divider line 241
    More: Interesting, stem cell therapy, antibodies, Gallup, tea party, opinion polls, cronyism, welfare states, obama  
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839 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Jul 2010 at 10:42 AM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-07-15 11:20:13 AM  
Phil Herup: Maybe because "liberals" are not actually liberal? You folks who love to call yourself "liberals" are really a collective of progressive authoritarians. There is not too much "liberal" in you.


"Liberal" implies free thinking and open mindedness, which you are not.


Man, I don't know what I would do without anonymous internets dudes I have never met pigeonhole me into their retarded, cartoonish little categories, and tell me all about what I am and how I think.

Thank you, internets!
 
2010-07-15 11:20:38 AM  
Serious Black: Most of which is pretty stupid rhetoric that makes no practical sense to implement, like a tax code that can be written in less words than the Constitution

You could write a pretty decent progressive tax code within those constraints - you just couldn't have a lot of exemptions or deductions.
 
2010-07-15 11:20:43 AM  
Halli: It's clearly one of those days.

I still giggle when I see his name.

250k a year is middle class. ~Phil

Oh you.
 
2010-07-15 11:21:15 AM  
Was the poll straight up "Do you consider yourself liberal/conservative", or did it break down by general policy positions?

Because I am wondering if this is going to be similar to the HCR polls where people were against the general bill, but loved nearly every single thing in it.

Q: Do you prefer red or blue?
A: Red.
Q: Do you prefer pink or indigo.
A: Indigo.
Q: Do you prefer crimson or navy?
A: Navy.
Q: Do you prefer vermillion or aqua?
A: Aqua.
Q: So if you prefer shades of blue over shades of red, why do you answer the first question the way you did?
A: I hate the word "blue".
 
2010-07-15 11:22:25 AM  
nmemkha: If Conservatives would stop leading with the irrelevant social issues and warmongering and actually become the party of "fiscal responsibility" then maybe their delusions of grandeur would come true.

It probably would. An emphasis on fiscal responsibility alone would appeal to a lot of people on all sides. While many would disagree on how exactly to do it, there would at least be cooperation and agreement that something had to be done.

Instead they lead with sh*t like BAN ALL HOMO GAYS AND BOMB THE CRAP OUT OF THE SCARY FOREIGNERS AND LOVE THE FLAG OR GTFO AND JESUS SAID THIS IS A CHRISTIAN NATION AND ONLY LAZY PEOPLE ARE UNEMPLOYEDoh and we should balance the budget.
 
2010-07-15 11:23:26 AM  
Phil Herup: collective of progressive authoritarians.

You are told to think and say that by people who don't like the tax policies that value and subsidize the low wage worker and policies that prevent damaging environmental practices. The spirit of the "conservative" comments/cartoons/am radio on the oil spill are perfect example. The oil spill is Obama's fault specifically and BP's ridiculous negligence was not to blame.
 
2010-07-15 11:24:00 AM  
It's difficult for people who live in ideological bubbles to get this, but the United States is a center-right nation. That's been consistent for decades --self-identified conservatives have always outnumbered self-identified liberals by about 40%-20%.

The mistake that the Democratic Party has made is assuming that those facts have changed. President Obama ran on a centrist platform. He has governed, for the most part, as far to the left as he can. The health care bill was a Pyrrhic victory for the Democrats. They got their bill, at the cost of losing the nation. The health care bill was sold on a bill of promises that the Democrats knew could not be kept -- but they pushed the bill through anyway. Instead of getting more popular after passage, it's still as unpopular now as in March.

This is not a liberal country. The last two outspoken liberal Presidents were failures (LBJ and Carter). Bill Clinton, to his credit, triangulated his positions by signing welfare reform into law, slashing capital gains, and not trying to push a radical agenda after the 1994 sweep. It worked.

The American electorate is worried about jobs, angry at spending, and have an earned distrust of government. The Democrats are running on a three-legged stool of more government, higher taxes, and mindless attacks in their opponents. That's why 2010 will be as big a GOP year as 1994 was.
 
2010-07-15 11:24:19 AM  
In your FACE liberals..

/Maybe I shouldn't be gloating too much...
 
2010-07-15 11:24:25 AM  
If this is true, then that means Republicans are leaking most of their voters to appeal to a very small part of the electorate that would vote against Democrats anyway. But since it's pretty much bullshiat, we can just ignore that, right?
 
2010-07-15 11:26:01 AM  
CaptMacMillian: Lemme guess, FairTax guy huh?



No.


Flat.

Like your mom.
 
2010-07-15 11:26:15 AM  
WombatControl: It's difficult for people who live in ideological bubbles to get this, but the United States is a center-right nation. That's been consistent for decades --self-identified conservatives have always outnumbered self-identified liberals by about 40%-20%

Precisely, so stop blaming liberals for decades of governance and economic failures.
 
2010-07-15 11:26:57 AM  
WombatControl: The Democrats are running on a three-legged stool of more government, higher taxes, and mindless attacks in their opponents.

Odd, I just checked my calendar and it didn't say today was 'Opposite Day'.
 
2010-07-15 11:27:23 AM  
Phil Herup: t should be hard to raise taxes. It should be hard for the gov't to do anything that lessens the power of the people.

Because that's worked out well for California real well. Setting up the system so that you need a simple majority to spend, yet a supermajority to pay for it is idiotic.
 
2010-07-15 11:27:45 AM  
Cinaed: I still giggle when I see his name.

250k a year is middle class. ~Phil


Depending on one's definition of middle class...

It hasn't, historically, meant "the people in the middle of the income band." The historical meaning is "financially-independent families which own substantial property, enjoy higher education, and share middle-class values favoring stability."

Just fyi.

In the US, of course, we tend to define the middle-class a bit lower than the historical norm - our working-class, by and large, considers themselves to be middle-class, for example.
 
2010-07-15 11:28:45 AM  
Aarontology: Because that's worked out well for California real well. Setting up the system so that you need a simple majority to spend, yet a supermajority to pay for it is idiotic.



It should be hard to spend as well.
 
2010-07-15 11:29:21 AM  
WombatControl: I live in a different reality than most people.

No doubt, Jonah.
 
2010-07-15 11:29:41 AM  
CaptMacMillian: Phil Herup: YouWinAgainGravity: the ideological purity test of the Tea Party



What is the ideology of the Tea Party?

Whatever the Republicans tell them it is. Duh.


It might be an interesting point of debate, except you have to pay WorldNetDaily founder Joseph Farah to find out what it is.

You know, just like the Founders intended when they made the Delcaration of Independence only available through pay-per-view.
 
2010-07-15 11:29:46 AM  
According to a new Gallup poll, conservatives now outnumber liberals in the US 2 to 1 ...

According to my own poll, florbscruggies outnumber quempurankles 3 to 1.

Your argument is invalid.
 
2010-07-15 11:29:53 AM  
WombatControl: It's difficult for people who live in ideological bubbles to get this, but the United States is a center-right nation.

Compared to what, exactly?
We don't have a monarchy or aristocracy like most of Europe.
Openly racist political parties don't get the electoral play here that they do in Europe.
We have a far more liberal economy than most of Europe.
We have more liberal abortion policies than most of Europe.

So...what, exactly, is the criteria and yardstick?
 
2010-07-15 11:30:32 AM  
Phil Herup: elchip: Watch Glenn Beck much?


Actually no. I have answered this a few times before.

My correctness is bothersome to you?


You just adopted his lingo. And that's not the correct definition.
 
2010-07-15 11:31:08 AM  
ghare: WombatControl: I live in a different reality than most people.

No doubt, Jonah.


He is as long winded. Hm.
 
2010-07-15 11:31:16 AM  
slothMD: WombatControl: It's difficult for people who live in ideological bubbles to get this, but the United States is a center-right nation.

Compared to what, exactly?
We don't have a monarchy or aristocracy like most of Europe.
Openly racist political parties don't get the electoral play here that they do in Europe.
We have a far more liberal economy than most of Europe.
We have more liberal abortion policies than most of Europe.

So...what, exactly, is the criteria and yardstick?


LIBRULSBADHULKSMASH!
 
2010-07-15 11:31:32 AM  
Phil Herup: CaptMacMillian: Lemme guess, FairTax guy huh?



No.


Flat.

Like your mom.


I believe you meant to reference your wife, but hey, it's clear your drunk so nice try man.
 
2010-07-15 11:31:47 AM  
What kind of Conservatives? Fiscal conservatives who favor so much military spending, it dwarfs any other aspect of the budget? Or is it the social conservatives who favor government intrusion on things like gay rights to the same benefits as straight couples and want to outlaw abortions and think the government should be allowed to racially profile and check the citizenship of anyone with a different skin color?
 
2010-07-15 11:31:57 AM  
Phil Herup: Flat.

But if you factor in any deductions for charity, or any credits for children, and any type of joint filing, I suspect that even a flat income tax (as a percentage) across the board would not be as simple as you think it would be.

Especially if you go into the world of corporate tax and other forms of income (like inheritance or gifts).

/I would support a flat percentage tax (on all income regardless of source) across the board if sales taxes were eliminated, and there are deductions for children (x dollars a year, not percentage refund).
 
2010-07-15 11:33:01 AM  
CaptMacMillian: Phil Herup: CaptMacMillian: Lemme guess, FairTax guy huh?



No.


Flat.

Like your mom.

I believe you meant to reference your wife, but hey, it's clear your drunk so nice try man.


Phil's a chick. Can't have a wife.
 
2010-07-15 11:33:07 AM  
Polls like this bother me. Of course fewer people self-identify as "liberals"-- right-wing pundits have spent so much time and energy on poisoning that label that only the most well-informed or zealous left-leaning Americans are willing to wear it openly. In some parts of the country a pollster might as well ask "do you consider yourself a decent human being, or a Satan-spawned serial puppy rapist?"

I'm inclined to wonder how the poll results would have looked if Gallup had avoided the use of "conservative" and "liberal" labels, and instead asked each respondent to state whether they agree or disagree with statements encapsulating key (and exclusive) components of each ideology.

Hell, there probably are some polls already structured that way; I'm too busy and/or lazy to check right now.
 
2010-07-15 11:33:28 AM  
YouWinAgainGravity: WombatControl: The Democrats are running on a three-legged stool of more government, higher taxes, and mindless attacks in their opponents.

Odd, I just checked my calendar and it didn't say today was 'Opposite Day'.


LOL this made me laugh.

And he's absolutely right. When the current Conservatives whine about "Liberal Hyperbole" most intelligent people chuckle and roll their eyes.

Conservatives if you want to be taken seriously then at least admit that you often turn it up to 11 (Beck, Rush, ORLY, Fox News) to pander to the disgruntled and the stupid.
 
2010-07-15 11:33:43 AM  
...and half the people who identify as "conservative" wouldn't know when or where to find the voting booths.
 
2010-07-15 11:33:52 AM  
ghare: LIBRULSBADHULKSMASH!

A smarter person would have realized I was saying the US is more liberal, and that's a good thing.
 
2010-07-15 11:34:04 AM  
Repeat after me:
Black is White!
BLACK IS WHITE!
 
2010-07-15 11:34:59 AM  
Phil Herup: Maybe because "liberals" are not actually liberal? You folks who love to call yourself "liberals" are really a collective of progressive authoritarians. There is not too much "liberal" in you.

"Liberal" implies free thinking and open mindedness, which you are not.



I don't know what I'd do without an authoritarian putz to tell me what my beliefs are.
 
2010-07-15 11:35:06 AM  
Aexia: This has been true for years. It's more about how the word "liberal" has been successfully demonized since 1980s than actual decrease in support for "liberalism".

Right, since Russian communism failed they had to grab on to some other fear generator. Liberal, communist, socialist; it's all interchangeable but means the same thing: "the enemy" right wingnuts gotta have something to fear/hate. You ought read the comments at my hometown online newspaper, the stupid is very strong here.
 
2010-07-15 11:35:20 AM  
ghare: CaptMacMillian: Phil Herup: CaptMacMillian: Lemme guess, FairTax guy huh?



No.


Flat.

Like your mom.

I believe you meant to reference your wife, but hey, it's clear your drunk so nice try man.

Phil's a chick. Can't have a wife.


That's no good because clearly if he's a girl then his husband would be ANYTHING but flat-chested.
 
2010-07-15 11:38:23 AM  
Phil Herup: Why would that make no sense? Why should it be complicated?


The Constitution was written under the assumption that things like the United States Code & Administrative Law would handle specific details like powers and procedures.

Trying to condense something like a tax code for a major western economy with 300 million people is like saying the DSM IV should be condensed into one of those pamphlets you see on your therapist's desk. It's an incredibly bad idea.
 
2010-07-15 11:38:32 AM  
scumshine: Right, since the Religious Right failed they had to grab on to some other fear generator. Republican, conservative, teatard; it's all interchangeable but means the same thing: "the enemy" left wingnuts gotta have something to fear/hate.
 
2010-07-15 11:39:03 AM  
slothMD: WombatControl: It's difficult for people who live in ideological bubbles to get this, but the United States is a center-right nation.

Compared to what, exactly?
We don't have a monarchy or aristocracy like most of Europe.
Openly racist political parties don't get the electoral play here that they do in Europe.
We have a far more liberal economy than most of Europe.
We have more liberal abortion policies than most of Europe.

So...what, exactly, is the criteria and yardstick?


Most of Europe doesn't have a monarchy and the abortion policies are the same except for three whole countries.
 
2010-07-15 11:39:38 AM  
slothMD
There was a bill in 1995 that clarified that fetal stem-cell research which destroyed the blastocyst fell under already existing regulation banning federal funding for research which destroyed embryos. Fetal stem-cell research was never a large or promising area of stem-cell research. And then Bush loosened restrictions, allowing funding of certain already-existing lines.

So, no, they never banned "stem-cell research." Not even close. They temporarily enforced already-existing law which prohibited federal funding of a very small area of stem-cell research. The vast majority of stem-cell research was never affected - and none of the actually useful or productive lines of research.


You are putting a hell of a spin on a Bush policy that had a chilling effect on stem cell research. I'm not sure where you're getting it, but from what I've read the actual researchers would say it's full of shiat.
 
2010-07-15 11:40:09 AM  
JK47: The Constitution was written under the assumption that things like the United States Code & Administrative Law would handle specific details like powers and procedures.

Trying to condense something like a tax code for a major western economy with 300 million people is like saying the DSM IV should be condensed into one of those pamphlets you see on your therapist's desk. It's an incredibly bad idea.


The DSM is big because the more people there are, the more ways there are for them to be biologically farked up. You don't *have* to invent a billion different tax categories. You can construct a perfectly cromulent tax code with a limited number of well-defined brackets and provisos.
 
2010-07-15 11:40:44 AM  
slothMD: Fetal stem-cell research was never a large or promising area of stem-cell research. And then Bush loosened restrictions, allowing funding of certain already-existing lines.

Yes, that was the Fox propaganda and the Republican line.

But it was basically untrue. Most of the stem cell lines that the had the Republican stamp of approval on them (Remember folks, small government! Now show us your stem cells!) were contaminated.

And your position that "Well, it really wasn't a promising area of research anyway so it didn't matter anyway" has been proven to be false by actual research that was done in other countries.
 
2010-07-15 11:41:44 AM  
2:1?

...huh. About 40% to 20%, according to Gallup.

On the other hand, the GSS data, using a slightly different question looks a bit different.
 
2010-07-15 11:41:46 AM  
patrick767: You are putting a hell of a spin on a Bush policy that had a chilling effect on stem cell research.

*blink*
The Bush policy was more liberal than what preceded him. No, seriously, the ban dates from the Dickey Amendment, which passed in 1995. I think you actually have to know the history to debate it...
 
2010-07-15 11:42:36 AM  
nmemkha: If Conservatives would stop leading with the irrelevant social issues and warmongering and actually become the party of "fiscal responsibility" then maybe their delusions of grandeur would come true.

Denying struggling Americans unemployment while continuing to support unsustainable tax decreases and funding for two pointless wars isn't going to win you much support among those in the upper 50% of the intelligence range.

And, even pandering to the lower 50% is dangerous since they tend to actually believe the hyperbole and dive off the derp end into the Tea Party.


Well they got it half right. Raising taxes is a recovery killer, but so is reducing government spending, i.e. not extending unemployment benefits.

My take on the latest Republican parties moves is they are deliberately trying to sabotage the economy, no matter who or how many people it pushes into poverty, in order to hurt President Obamas chances of getting re-elected.
 
2010-07-15 11:43:42 AM  
What exactly does the Tea Party Stand for? I've tried to look it up but all I find is ranting and ravings of what seem to be rather odd people.

Any one here who's more "normal" and belongs to the tea party want to enlighten me?
 
2010-07-15 11:44:31 AM  
slothMD: ghare: LIBRULSBADHULKSMASH!

A smarter person would have realized I was saying the US is more liberal, and that's a good thing.


And a smarter person than YOU would have realized I was summarizing WombatControl's position.

I realize that the US is in fact liberal on most issues. If you ask people questions about health care, whatever, WITHOUT saying "this is a Republican or Democratic idea", a large majority of Americans are liberal on most issues the country faces today.
 
2010-07-15 11:45:32 AM  
Halli: Most of Europe doesn't have a monarchy and the abortion policies are the same except for three whole countries.

Much of Europe does have a monarchy.

And yes, the abortion policies are substantially similar (but not the same), and they are pretty uniformly less liberal than US policies. The US has a generally larger window where abortion is legal, we don't generally have mandatory counseling where the State tries to talk you out of having an abortion. And, of course, no US states ban abortion, but some European countries do.

And, finally, I assume you're conceding the openly racist party bit?
 
2010-07-15 11:46:17 AM  
DarnoKonrad: WombatControl: It's difficult for people who live in ideological bubbles to get this, but the United States is a center-right nation. That's been consistent for decades --self-identified conservatives have always outnumbered self-identified liberals by about 40%-20%

Precisely, so stop blaming liberals for decades of governance and economic failures.


I'd like to add that just because we are a center right country, going to the extreme right is not the logical conclusion or wisest course of action.

Obama won because he sat to the center right, despite the statement that he is the "Most Liberal President Ever" and running as a Democrat.

//He also owes some support toe people that were terrified of the thought of Palin as VP.
 
2010-07-15 11:47:15 AM  
MDGeist: What exactly does the Tea Party Stand for?

Ill-defined anger. Kinda like the Protest Party that overran DC before them. I seriously question the mental health of anybody who spends a lot of time and energy carrying around ill-conceived signs and screaming at people, no matter what part of the political spectrum they come from.
 
2010-07-15 11:48:02 AM  
Since when are there only 2 choices? Besides who wants to call themselves liberal anymore. The word has been demonized to the point that most have relabeled themselves as progressive.

I wonder out of the the conservatives polled if they really know what it is to be conservative? The last one I talked to in the tea party was clearly a libertarian, not a conservative.
 
2010-07-15 11:48:30 AM  
ghare: And a smarter person than YOU would have realized I was summarizing WombatControl's position.

Ouch.

I realize that the US is in fact liberal on most issues. If you ask people questions about health care, whatever, WITHOUT saying "this is a Republican or Democratic idea", a large majority of Americans are liberal on most issues the country faces today.

Indeed.
 
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