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(Gazette.com)   In a scene out of Top Gun, NORAD scrambles 2 F-16's to chase a Cessna and balsa wood glider   (gazette.com ) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Cessnas, NORAD, University of Nevada, patrols, Las Vegas, TV listings, President Obama, special agents  
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9538 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jul 2010 at 11:44 AM (6 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-07-10 01:18:01 PM  
handheld.softpedia.com
 
2010-07-10 01:18:46 PM  

TommyDeuce: Clete Orris: Airfoilsguy: hbalien: Two pilots who violated a no-fly zone related to President Obama's two-day visit to Las Vegas

So there's a no-fly zone everywhere a president goes?

They basically shut down everything within a mile of where he is. They shut down 30 miles of airspace.

Over a year ago, I was at Sky Harbor International Airport to catch a flight to Vegas, when Obama was arriving in Phoenix. All aircraft were grounded and delayed for at least an hour to allow his highness to land unmolested. As a result, got to Vegas way later than expected and nearly ruined my plans for the evening.

And of course, "His Highness" is the first and only President (or other VIP) to ever have such security.

/Would you prefer they stick to what they had in say 1963?


He is the first and only one so far to inconvenience me. Thank you for playing.
 
2010-07-10 01:30:01 PM  
Try keeping up....
www.defenseindustrydaily.com

Su-37 Super Flanker
 
2010-07-10 01:35:19 PM  

LexAndTerry: Try keeping up....


Su-37 Super Flanker


Russians make some good stuff. It looks good, seems to fly well. However, there needs to be some damn testing. With the exception of the F-22, most of our combat aircraft have actually done a lot of combat, some against Russian aircraft, which fared rather poorly. Don't get me wrong, some great looking aircraft. We just don't know if they really are good or not.
 
2010-07-10 01:39:42 PM  

red5ish: ArkAngel: These are the best planes

The A-10 is a farkin' can opener. I love that thing.


More of a Swiss Army Chainsaw, IMstupidO

/ perl reference!
 
2010-07-10 01:39:57 PM  

SithLord: Goimir: In before truthers.

FTA:

The agency responds quickly - and with force - because failing to do so could create an opportunity for those with "ill intent" seeking vulnerabilities in the system, said Army Maj. Mike Humphreys, a NORAD spokesman.


I laughed at this statement. I guess 9/11/01 was a vacation day.


You're an idiot.

rico567: Take-Home Final Exam Essay (50 points)

Enumerate, analyze, and discuss at least five (5) significant symptoms of a once powerful and confident nation that's becoming afraid of its own shadow.

/discuss among yourselves
//please


You too.
 
2010-07-10 01:42:09 PM  
Must have been fun for the F-16 pilots.

I'd imagine the TOP speed for those Cessna's is close to the STALL speed of the F-16's - if not lower.

Run circles or favorited!.
 
2010-07-10 01:46:00 PM  

Farker T: Must have been fun for the F-16 pilots.

I'd imagine the TOP speed for those Cessna's is close to the STALL speed of the F-16's - if not lower.

Run circles or favorited!.


Not when Doug Masters is running the Snake.
 
2010-07-10 01:48:16 PM  

A Shambling Mound: SithLord: Goimir: In before truthers.

FTA:

The agency responds quickly - and with force - because failing to do so could create an opportunity for those with "ill intent" seeking vulnerabilities in the system, said Army Maj. Mike Humphreys, a NORAD spokesman.


I laughed at this statement. I guess 9/11/01 was a vacation day.

A Shambling Mound: You're an idiot.


You make a fine rebuttal, sir.

Well reasoned and articulate.
 
2010-07-10 01:49:09 PM  
Never heard of this, just had to do a quick Wikipedia check on the F-15 for something:

The ASM-135 anti-satellite (ASAT) missile was designed to be a standoff anti-satellite weapon, with the F-15 acting as a first stage. The Soviet Union could correlate a U.S. rocket launch with a spy satellite loss, but an F-15 carrying an ASAT would blend in among hundreds of F-15 flights. From January 1984 to September 1986, two F-15As were used as launch platforms for the ASAT missile. The F-15As (76-0084[42] and 76-0086[43]) were modified to carry one ASM-135 on the centerline station with extra equipment within a special centerline pylon.[44] The launch aircraft executed a Mach 1.22, 3.8 g climb at 65° to release the ASAT missile at an altitude of 38,100 ft (11,600 m).[45][46] The flight computer was updated to control the zoom-climb and missile release.

The third test flight involved a retired P78-1 solar observatory satellite in a 345-mile (555 km) orbit, which was successfully destroyed by kinetic energy.[45] The pilot, USAF Major Wilbert D. "Doug" Pearson, became the first and only pilot to destroy a satellite.[46][47] The ASAT program involved five test launches. The program was officially terminated in 1988.[44][46]


F-15 destroyed a satellite, that was in orbit 345 miles up, back in the 80's? That's cool. Guess if anyone gets uppity in orbit, they are not real safe. Technology in the 80's was pretty awful compared to now too.
 
2010-07-10 02:01:01 PM  
Over the years I've been held up by various POTUS flights. It's a pain.

The current system is worse because (as in Vegas) they restrict the airspace at all the airports anywhere near the place. I've yet to figure out why airplanes are so scary when it's guns and bombs that are killing people.
 
2010-07-10 02:02:55 PM  

edmo: Over the years I've been held up by various POTUS flights. It's a pain.

The current system is worse because (as in Vegas) they restrict the airspace at all the airports anywhere near the place. I've yet to figure out why airplanes are so scary when it's guns and bombs that are killing people.


That whole 9/11 thing maybe?
 
2010-07-10 02:05:02 PM  

LexAndTerry: Try keeping up....


Su-37 Super Flanker

Number built : 2
Number in active duty/operational service : unknown, but at most 2
 
2010-07-10 02:07:06 PM  
I FEEL THE NEED!
 
2010-07-10 02:22:56 PM  
"The Cessna towed my glider
made of balsa wood and glue,
but with the F-16s, I knew,
that my flight plan wouldn't do."
 
2010-07-10 02:25:43 PM  

Thunderpipes: Russians make some good stuff. It looks good, seems to fly well. However, there needs to be some damn testing. With the exception of the F-22, most of our combat aircraft have actually done a lot of combat, some against Russian aircraft, which fared rather poorly. Don't get me wrong, some great looking aircraft. We just don't know if they really are good or not.


The issue is not 1v1 (F-15 vs MiG-29, or F-22 vs Su-fictional for example). The issue is Air Force vs Air Force.

Tactics, logistics, training (not only pilot hours), AWACS, satellite, etc, etc. The airframes may be roughly comparable, but once you throw the rest into the mix, all bets are off.

Practice
Practice
Practice

The USAF can put a functional fighter squadron on any runway in the world within 24 hours. See Kuwait 1990. Including gas, supplies, spares, maintenance troops, etc. Hold for a week until the Navy can bring a carrier or two, and their squadrons, within range. Hold again until several wings of USAF aircraft can get to runways within range.

And do this routinely.

If really needed, the USAF can fly B-82/B-2 missions directly from Minot/Barksdale/Whiteman over any target on the planet. Max 18 hr response time, 'Go' to kaboom.

Wake up a Russian wing commander at 2 AM and tell him he has until midnight to get one of his squadrons to Runway X by midnight, and see how many functional combat flights you get the next day.

Ask a USAF wing commander, and the only thing he might ask is "Are the politics worked out?"

For better or worse, we've practiced this crap a lot.
 
2010-07-10 02:28:03 PM  

dforkus: LexAndTerry: Try keeping up....


Su-37 Super Flanker
Number built : 2
Number in active duty/operational service : unknown, but at most 2


Knowing that, I think we can take them.
 
2010-07-10 02:28:29 PM  

Thunderpipes: F-15 destroyed a satellite, that was in orbit 345 miles up, back in the 80's? That's cool. Guess if anyone gets uppity in orbit, they are not real safe. Technology in the 80's was pretty awful compared to now too.


Kind of scary to think that this technology has now trickled down to countries that may want to do that to ISS...
 
2010-07-10 02:31:36 PM  
In a scene out of Top Gun The Simpsons, NORAD scrambles 2 F-16's to chase a Cessna and balsa wood glider

"Bogey's air speed not sufficient for intercept. Suggest we get out and walk."
 
2010-07-10 02:38:57 PM  
You are correct about practice, absolutely. A good match up, the last one in my opinion, was the Mig-15 and Sabre. Both aircraft were comparable, but the Mig pilots v the US pilots who had WWII experience and training lost soundly. When Russian pilots who also had experience from WWII secretly flew combat sorties, the aircraft was just as deadly as ours.

Many people like to post pictures of cool Russian fighters and boldly claim they are super fighters, and most of the time it is a 2 off prototype or an airshow shot.

I really would love to see what would have happened in an F-16/Mig-29 or F-15/Su-27 matchup with even pilots and support.

What is really scary is thinking about Germany winning the war in Europe. They already had plans in place for what many think was the initial design the Mig-15 was based on, as well as a flying wing bomber with almost the same dimensions as the B-2. If that had happened (Germany winning), I think we all would have been farked.

Check out the Ta-183. If this had a couple more years to develop, air war would have been in serious trouble. The proposed specs, speed, firepower are scary for the time and more akin to Mig-15 and Sabre. 595 mph and 4 30 mm cannon for proposed aircraft.

Ta-183 (new window)
 
2010-07-10 02:51:06 PM  

TommyDeuce: And of course, "His Highness" is the first and only President (or other VIP) to ever have such security.


No one ever claimed that. It's been this way ever since September, 2001. But I'm with the others, it's ridiculous. a 30-nm no fly zone for light general aviation aircraft that don't pose a threat is just ridiculous, and yet another burden on what the already strained and suffering general aviation industry.

Make the no-fly zone smaller. Put in place a system to get clearance through it, in flight, by simply identifying yourself to ATC. Or, do away with the damned thing entirely, because small aircraft pose even less threat than rental trucks, firearms, fertilizer, or a myriad of other things that we take for granted every day.

Aviation is vilified because it was used in the September 11th attacks, and because the media has always had a field day playing on humans inherent fear of flight. I'm fine with that, up until it starts infringing on my freedom to safely operate my aircraft, and starts driving people away from what is a safe, amazing, and rewarding hobby.

/Grumble grumble grumble
 
2010-07-10 02:52:02 PM  

A Shambling Mound: SithLord: Goimir: In before truthers.

FTA:

The agency responds quickly - and with force - because failing to do so could create an opportunity for those with "ill intent" seeking vulnerabilities in the system, said Army Maj. Mike Humphreys, a NORAD spokesman.


I laughed at this statement. I guess 9/11/01 was a vacation day.

You're an idiot.

rico567: Take-Home Final Exam Essay (50 points)

Enumerate, analyze, and discuss at least five (5) significant symptoms of a once powerful and confident nation that's becoming afraid of its own shadow.

/discuss among yourselves
//please

You too.


You may continue to debate which is the better sport: WWE or UFC and let the real adults talk.
 
2010-07-10 02:56:23 PM  
www.boeing.com

I guess that would make this a GILF

/The first model jet plane as a kid that I didn't just say "fark it" and spray paint.
 
2010-07-10 02:59:18 PM  
sharetv.org

You can't escape Bob! If the tennis rackets don't get you, the pool skimmers will!
 
2010-07-10 03:00:14 PM  
How do you know he's a king? He hasn't got shiat all over him.

Now we see the violence inherent in the system!

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rAaWvVFERVA/hqdefault.jpg
 
2010-07-10 03:32:56 PM  
That scramble cost taxpayers about $300,000.

But hey, defense spending being 66% of our federal budget shouldn't make anyone worry.
 
2010-07-10 03:38:21 PM  
pudding7 2010-07-10 12:19:01 PM
What is the Top Gun reference for? Anytime any military fighter takes off, is that a valid reason for a Top Gun reference?

There is nothing remotely related to Top Gun here, other than military jets were in the air.

/nitpicky
 
2010-07-10 03:41:36 PM  
pudding7 2010-07-10 12:19:01 PM
What is the Top Gun reference for? Anytime any military fighter takes off, is that a valid reason for a Top Gun reference?

There is nothing remotely related to Top Gun here, other than military jets were in the air.

/nitpicky


May I improve Foriegn relations with you? You know, give you the bird?
 
2010-07-10 03:42:56 PM  

phreakmonkey: TommyDeuce: And of course, "His Highness" is the first and only President (or other VIP) to ever have such security.

No one ever claimed that. It's been this way ever since September, 2001. But I'm with the others, it's ridiculous. a 30-nm no fly zone for light general aviation aircraft that don't pose a threat is just ridiculous, and yet another burden on what the already strained and suffering general aviation industry.

Make the no-fly zone smaller. Put in place a system to get clearance through it, in flight, by simply identifying yourself to ATC. Or, do away with the damned thing entirely, because small aircraft pose even less threat than rental trucks, firearms, fertilizer, or a myriad of other things that we take for granted every day.

Aviation is vilified because it was used in the September 11th attacks, and because the media has always had a field day playing on humans inherent fear of flight. I'm fine with that, up until it starts infringing on my freedom to safely operate my aircraft, and starts driving people away from what is a safe, amazing, and rewarding hobby.

/Grumble grumble grumble


OK, I get that, I'm a pretty big fan of civil aviation, and yes, that whole sector has gotten the shaft since 9/11. I was referring to the general state of inconvenience placed on people when the President, VP, or even members of the Cabinet visit somewhere. George Bush the first visited my college back in 1988, and the security was nuts. What's really sad is that most of the people who'd want to knock off a politician wouldn't be doing it because of the target's politics, but for more interesting motives, like impressing Jodi Foster.

/If Clete Orris really wants his travel plans undisturbed, he should run for U.S. Senate, or maybe become a lobbyist.
 
2010-07-10 04:11:36 PM  

huntercr: I guess that would make this a GILF

/The first model jet plane as a kid that I didn't just say "fark it" and spray paint.


ooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo...... -droolsigh-

You, sir, have taste. Thanks for not lettin' this baby go unmentioned. From an era where pilots were pilots, men were men, and sheep were scared...

/ target drones?!?
// really?!?
/// gettin' smoky in here. :'O(
 
2010-07-10 04:13:55 PM  
Break into him, then when he overshoots, cut throttle and head straight for the ground. If you can get down in the weeds, he won't be able to get his nose low enough to put guns on you.
 
2010-07-10 04:24:40 PM  
"That didn't sound like balsa wood."

"It didn't even feel like balsa wood."
 
2010-07-10 04:37:36 PM  
F-4 was an airplane? I thought it was just a bus with two massively powerful engines?

Great plane, just kidding.

Anyone watch the history channel show, dogfights I think, about the Duke Cunningham engagement? I think that is his name, was pretty cool.
 
2010-07-10 04:53:46 PM  

Thunderpipes: F-4 was an airplane? I thought it was just a bus with two massively powerful engines?

Great plane, just kidding.

Anyone watch the history channel show, dogfights I think, about the Duke Cunningham engagement? I think that is his name, was pretty cool.


Yeah, too bad 'bout his later shenanigans.

My dad flew that monster in Vietnam, as did Sully o' course, and your description wasn't TOO far off... which is why I hold up F-4 pilots as some of the best I've ever friggin' seen.

With a nod, of course, to the A-10 as my second fave. Not only do they take out tanks, they ARE tanks. This site here helps explain why...
 
2010-07-10 05:13:21 PM  

Farker T: You make a fine rebuttal, sir.

Well reasoned and articulate.


Okay, fine.

What in the hell does a Cessna pilot unintentionally or accidentally violating a specially created and carefully watched no-fly zone have to do with several commercial flights operating in (relatively) unrestricted airspace on 9/11? Explain that in some way that makes any kind of sense and I'll happily retract my statement which was not intended as a rebuttal of any kind, rather as a simple observation.

SithLord: You may continue to debate which is the better sport: WWE or UFC and let the real adults talk.


So let's go back to that fictional time when were a big, strong, manly country that pissed nails and didn't afraid of anything. An aircraft enters a specifically created no-fly zone; would they not receive a welcome from the folks who are in charge of making sure that no one flies in the no-fly zone or would they just ask nicely over the radio if they'd please turn around and fly home?
 
2010-07-10 05:16:09 PM  

uncletogie: / target drones?!?
// really?!?


They're getting ready to use some of the older F-16's as QF's.
 
2010-07-10 05:32:01 PM  

uncletogie: Thunderpipes: F-4 was an airplane? I thought it was just a bus with two massively powerful engines?

Great plane, just kidding.

Anyone watch the history channel show, dogfights I think, about the Duke Cunningham engagement? I think that is his name, was pretty cool.

Yeah, too bad 'bout his later shenanigans.

My dad flew that monster in Vietnam, as did Sully o' course, and your description wasn't TOO far off... which is why I hold up F-4 pilots as some of the best I've ever friggin' seen.

With a nod, of course, to the A-10 as my second fave. Not only do they take out tanks, they ARE tanks. This site here helps explain why...


Cool about your dad. The A-10 also gets a lot of that from its namesake, the P-47 Thunderbolt. The Jug could take a lot of damage because of its size, ruggedness, and that gigantic rotary engine.

Dad get any kills? That is just awesome. They had to do a lot to the F-4 airframe to make it flyable, the wing angles and such. Took a good pilot.
 
2010-07-10 05:37:14 PM  

Thunderpipes: Technology in the 80's was pretty awful compared to now too.


Um, what?
 
2010-07-10 05:43:53 PM  

A Shambling Mound: Farker T: You make a fine rebuttal, sir.

Well reasoned and articulate.

Okay, fine.

What in the hell does a Cessna pilot unintentionally or accidentally violating a specially created and carefully watched no-fly zone have to do with several commercial flights operating in (relatively) unrestricted airspace on 9/11? Explain that in some way that makes any kind of sense and I'll happily retract my statement which was not intended as a rebuttal of any kind, rather as a simple observation.

SithLord: You may continue to debate which is the better sport: WWE or UFC and let the real adults talk.

So let's go back to that fictional time when were a big, strong, manly country that pissed nails and didn't afraid of anything. An aircraft enters a specifically created no-fly zone; would they not receive a welcome from the folks who are in charge of making sure that no one flies in the no-fly zone or would they just ask nicely over the radio if they'd please turn around and fly home?



If you would be so kind to notice that the original post I made that quoted the article had stated what NORAD's position is in regards to American Defense. If a plane threatens the country, or the President for that matter, it is NORAD's job to shoot down said plane or verify its non-threatening posture and escort it home. Anything from a Cessna, up to and including a Boeing jetliner with full capacity.

NORAD didn't do their job on 9/11. However, our country is safe from depressurized private planes owned by golfers.
 
2010-07-10 05:46:43 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Thunderpipes: Technology in the 80's was pretty awful compared to now too.

Um, what?


Serious question here? You think technology 25 years ago was as advanced as it is now? It is a large difference, staggering in terms of computers.
 
2010-07-10 05:48:03 PM  
How does an F-16 escort a Cessna? I wouldn't think it can fly slow enough. Does it fly circles around it?

farm5.static.flickr.com

Who cares about practicality when you have sheer force of awesome.
 
2010-07-10 05:49:20 PM  

SithLord: A
NORAD the FAA didn't do their job on 9/11. However, our country is safe from depressurized private planes owned by golfers.


FTFY.
 
2010-07-10 05:51:02 PM  

YouPeopleAreCrazy: If really needed, the USAF can fly B-82/B-2 missions directly from Minot/Barksdale/Whiteman over any target on the planet. Max 18 hr response time, 'Go' to kaboom.


Ssshhh!! The B-82 is still classified.
 
2010-07-10 06:05:16 PM  
I really hope we can, through sheer stubbornness, keep the B-52 operational for 100 years. No real reason we can't.
 
2010-07-10 06:07:56 PM  
Private pilots almost never check NOTAMs when they are just going out for an hour or so of practicing maneuvers or just joy-ridding. I never do. If there is an airspace restriction change in the area, FBOs are supposed to post the NOTAM for it where pilots can see it, but many don't.

I have to wonder where NORAD was on 9/11/2001? Today they got a couple of itty-bitty Cessnas. Then they allowed three airliners to fly into buildings. And, no NORAD has not changed their policies and procedures in decades.
 
2010-07-10 06:08:59 PM  

RoyBatty: Ssshhh!! The B-82 is still classified.


dammit! I'm screwed now.

I just heard a shshshsh sound overhead. That must be the QuietChoppers. If you guys don't hear from me in the next few days...check with whats left of WikiLeaks. They may know something.
 
2010-07-10 06:11:11 PM  
I think this is more Iron Eagle than Top Gun.
 
2010-07-10 06:13:36 PM  

JackieRabbit: Private pilots almost never check NOTAMs when they are just going out for an hour or so of practicing maneuvers or just joy-ridding. I never do. If there is an airspace restriction change in the area, FBOs are supposed to post the NOTAM for it where pilots can see it, but many don't.

I have to wonder where NORAD was on 9/11/2001? Today they got a couple of itty-bitty Cessnas. Then they allowed three airliners to fly into buildings. And, no NORAD has not changed their policies and procedures in decades.


Enough! The private airlines took at least half an hour to notify the FAA of the hijackings and then the FAA took its time to notify NORAD.
 
2010-07-10 06:14:08 PM  

YouPeopleAreCrazy: RoyBatty: Ssshhh!! The B-82 is still classified.

dammit! I'm screwed now.

I just heard a shshshsh sound overhead. That must be the QuietChoppers. If you guys don't hear from me in the next few days...check with whats left of WikiLeaks. They may know something.


Right. So everyone understands, YouPeopleAreCrazy just made a typo. Repeat. He was talking about the B-52. There is no such plane as a B-82. It's ridiculous to think of a fleet of Mach 5 aircraft with the carrying capacity of a 747 that can fly orbital missions on a 48 hour notice.

(Hope that helps.)
 
2010-07-10 07:10:36 PM  

huntercr: I guess that would make this a GILF

/The first model jet plane as a kid that I didn't just say "fark it" and spray paint.



The plane that made me wanna be a pilot.
Power and poise / Pure authority
 
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