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(Yahoo)   "They took our jobs" "Here's a website where you can apply for harvest work usually done by immigrants. It's over 100 out, no overtime pay, and farms don't have to pay minimum wage." "...Wargarble"   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 359
    More: Interesting, minimum wages, overtime, subsidized housing, labor force, American Jobs, Bureau of Labor Statistics, illegal immigrants, grapes  
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16730 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jun 2010 at 11:54 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-06-25 12:16:01 PM
here in nyc they are mostly nannies, cleaning ladies, cab drivers and delivery men (no matter WHAT kind of food you order a mexican is bringing it to you).

sorry, but i dont want any of those jobs.

im black and we already had slavery so no thanks.
 
2010-06-25 12:16:06 PM
ne2d: Farm workers are excluded from federal overtime provisions, and small farms don't even have to pay the minimum wage. Fifteen states don't require farm labor to be covered by workers compensation laws.

Can someone explain why people like farmers so much? I can't think of another industry that has anywhere near the undeserved reputation that agriculture does.


Uh, I like them because they grow our food? Am I taking crazy pills?
 
2010-06-25 12:16:13 PM
ne2d: Farm workers are excluded from federal overtime provisions, and small farms don't even have to pay the minimum wage. Fifteen states don't require farm labor to be covered by workers compensation laws.

Can someone explain why people like farmers so much? I can't think of another industry that has anywhere near the undeserved reputation that agriculture does.


Food. It's tough to deny that without them, most of us would starve, and that earns them a measure of respect that frankly they don't get very much. Of course, factory farming hasn't exactly helped matters much, with its "by any means necessary" methods that range from the distasteful to the outright horrific.

Part of the problem is that the agriculture industry in the US is severely farked up, such that the damage can't be undone overnight without having severely destructive effects all its own even if economics are set aside. This is not to say that the problems shouldn't be fixed, but it has to be done slowly, with time to adjust after each step. There's also a matter of priority: for example, does one reduce (and eventually eliminate) subsidies first, or introduce decent labor standards? Either way could probably be done without too much harm, as long as they weren't done at the same time. It might even be possible to stagger them, doing each one gradually and taking turns over which step is taken when, and that could make for a good compromise position. Trying to do both at once, however, would drive a lot of farms out of business.

There's also the matter of food prices. They will go up as we fix the industry, and there's no way around that, given that the entire point of putting these things into place was to lower food prices and/or keep them from rising. It has been a very long time since food prices were a major issue in a US election. That is going to have to change, and the effect on the political landscape is going to be very hard to predict. Who wants to touch that off?
 
2010-06-25 12:16:54 PM
Thunderpipes: yakmans_dad: Illegal immigration is the great Noh drama of American political life.

All that "anger" is entirely artificial.

The easiest way to drive illegal immigration to 0: make the employers of illegals do time. Don't just arrest them. Convict 'em and make 'em do the time.

Ahh, the old liberal warghaballlerr whatever. Don't crack down on illegal aliens, they have rights, crack down on Americans! Why? Well they make it inviting to commit the crime of illegal entry!

Fark off.


Why do you love criminals?
 
2010-06-25 12:16:58 PM
I have experience with hoes.
 
2010-06-25 12:17:06 PM
Prices going up? OMG! Let's do away with citizenship! That way we can find food piled in the streets!
 
2010-06-25 12:17:17 PM
TheShavingofOccam123: 20 million illegals tend to depress wages. Throw out 20 million people who are willing to lie enter the country, lie to stay in the country, steal identities to work and ship home $12 billion or so a year to their home countries and see what happens to wage increases and job creation.

But that would be racist.


How are we supposed to do this though? It's not as though we can go around with a van rounding up 20 million people and send them all back. I haven't heard any reasonable solutions for this.
 
2010-06-25 12:17:23 PM
Next we will crack down on hot chicks in skimpy outfits, because they make rape happen. Can't blame the rapists after all, they have rights!
 
2010-06-25 12:18:07 PM
fracto73: meat0918: Thunderpipes: Try picking potatoes. I lived in northern ME until I was 13. We got 6 weeks off in the fall from school to pick potatoes. You took a bus to the fields when it was still dark, worked until dusk on your hands and knees with a basket picking potatoes after the digger went by. Fark that was hard work. 55 cents a barrel at that time. Some bad-ass pickers would pick 100 barrels a day. School year was extended of course, good times.

Enforce the laws, and change them so farm workers get minimum wage and workers comp. Kick all illegals out. Problem solved. If nobody will take the jobs, the pay will go up as the market dictates.

I don't understand what is so hard about all this.

No one wants to actually punish those demanding the workers, i.e. the businesses.

Right now, there is very little disincentive to hire workers here illegally.

Start doing more than slapping the wrists of those that hire them.

//Also, prepare for food prices to increase as fines and higher wages drive them up.


Why would my grocery store buy potatoes at an increased price? They can import them from overseas at comparable rates to what we have now. Expect your taxes to go up to increase farm subsidies instead.


What about those that demand Idaho potatoes? They'll be willing to pay a premium for those, although not as many as when they were 89 cents a lb.

It would equalize, but not before the some sort of protectionism stepped in, either subsidies or tariffs.
 
2010-06-25 12:18:18 PM
ne2d: Farm workers are excluded from federal overtime provisions, and small farms don't even have to pay the minimum wage. Fifteen states don't require farm labor to be covered by workers compensation laws.

Can someone explain why people like farmers so much? I can't think of another industry that has anywhere near the undeserved reputation that agriculture does.


So you want to spend a lot of your income on food then?
 
2010-06-25 12:18:26 PM
Thunderpipes: yakmans_dad: Illegal immigration is the great Noh drama of American political life.

All that "anger" is entirely artificial.

The easiest way to drive illegal immigration to 0: make the employers of illegals do time. Don't just arrest them. Convict 'em and make 'em do the time.

Ahh, the old liberal warghaballlerr whatever. Don't crack down on illegal aliens, they have rights, crack down on Americans! Why? Well they make it inviting to commit the crime of illegal entry!

Fark off.


And you didn't disagree with me, did you?

Punish the monkey
And let the organ grinder go.
 
2010-06-25 12:18:31 PM
Shaggy_C: Anyone who has ever read The Grapes of Wrath should find it a travesty that 70 years later laborers are still being treated like garbage in the agricultural sector.

FTFM. Steinbeck bothers me almost as much as Faulkner.
 
2010-06-25 12:18:56 PM
sweetmelissa31: The-Brain: ...but you'd get to pick your own burger/sub toppings.

Can you pick cheese and more meat?


Please God. Please let there be a bacon bush that I'm not aware of.
 
2010-06-25 12:19:35 PM
farscape: Uh, I like them because they grow our food? Am I taking crazy pills?

Most of the food you get is either 1) imported or 2) grown by highly technological folks. My best friend's fiance's family has a farm in NE. You know how you do harvesting and planting now on their farm? You program the GPS coordinates into a giant self-propelled machine so that it knows where your rows are, then you sit in the air conditioned cab and watch a movie on your laptop. I shiat you not.

The American perception of the hero farmer, slaving away at manual labor in hot fields is fast becoming totally false, and has been partially false for quite a while now.
 
2010-06-25 12:20:11 PM
RockIsDead: Which is why they don't WANT to be made legal. Then they'd have to be paid legal wage and buhbye jobs.

While you are correct in your logic, you were incorrect in the fact that the agricultural business does not have to abide by the minimum wage laws. So, whether you are legal or not doesn't matter. You still get paid the same.
This is the whole point that this site is trying to make. They're betting that nobody legal would be willing to do so much work to get paid so little.
 
2010-06-25 12:20:17 PM
Who was the idiotic coont who said that Real Americans are above doing jobs like this? I would love to pick vegetables this summer. The Skagit Valley turns into an orgasmic experience for any of us who enjoy farmer's markets.
 
2010-06-25 12:20:27 PM
i412.photobucket.com
 
2010-06-25 12:20:39 PM
ne2d: Farm workers are excluded from federal overtime provisions, and small farms don't even have to pay the minimum wage. Fifteen states don't require farm labor to be covered by workers compensation laws.

Can someone explain why people like farmers so much? I can't think of another industry that has anywhere near the undeserved reputation that agriculture does.


Starvation has a lot to do with it. We Like eating and all. More to the economic point the urban poor and middle class need cheap food to surivive. The farmer however can't survive if the food he produces sells just barely above, or sometimes even below the cost of production. Since there are a whole lot of people in the cities and comparatively few farmers, the solution is obvious: subsidize the hell out of farmers in every way imaginable including letting them cuit thier labor costs by using illegal immigrant workers.
 
2010-06-25 12:21:10 PM
meat0918: fracto73: meat0918: Thunderpipes: Try picking potatoes. I lived in northern ME until I was 13. We got 6 weeks off in the fall from school to pick potatoes. You took a bus to the fields when it was still dark, worked until dusk on your hands and knees with a basket picking potatoes after the digger went by. Fark that was hard work. 55 cents a barrel at that time. Some bad-ass pickers would pick 100 barrels a day. School year was extended of course, good times.

Enforce the laws, and change them so farm workers get minimum wage and workers comp. Kick all illegals out. Problem solved. If nobody will take the jobs, the pay will go up as the market dictates.

I don't understand what is so hard about all this.

No one wants to actually punish those demanding the workers, i.e. the businesses.

Right now, there is very little disincentive to hire workers here illegally.

Start doing more than slapping the wrists of those that hire them.

//Also, prepare for food prices to increase as fines and higher wages drive them up.


Why would my grocery store buy potatoes at an increased price? They can import them from overseas at comparable rates to what we have now. Expect your taxes to go up to increase farm subsidies instead.

What about those that demand Idaho potatoes? They'll be willing to pay a premium for those, although not as many as when they were 89 cents a lb.

It would equalize, but not before the some sort of protectionism stepped in, either subsidies or tariffs.



Maine potatoes, not Idaho.
 
2010-06-25 12:24:04 PM
Wytchone: ne2d:

I want to know also. Americans will do the job for the right price. Since the system is not forcing change upon them, no price increase no min. wage.


I don't know, Most Americans don't want a job that is as nomadic as harvest work. It's only in one place for two weeks or so. I worked at an orchard that put a big sign up advertising pickers wanted (it paid by the piece so you could earn as much as you worked). The Mexicans (extended family of the legal, usual staff) worked faster than every American we hired, and got paid quite a bit more. The only two Americans who stayed longer than a day were two college kids who were on a summer long road trip, everyone else quit on the first day because the work was too hard, and there was one family who got fired when they ate most of what they picked.
 
2010-06-25 12:24:11 PM
I've also worked making dehumidifiers, being the only white guy in an assembly line of twenty plus. They work harder and more accurately than any of these morons would for far less pay.
 
2010-06-25 12:24:22 PM
Tripp Johnston Private Eye: Who was the idiotic coont who said that Real Americans are above doing jobs like this? I would love to pick vegetables this summer. The Skagit Valley turns into an orgasmic experience for any of us who enjoy farmer's markets.

Right, because every place in America is just as pleasant in the summer as the Skagit Valley of northwest Washington state.
 
2010-06-25 12:24:57 PM
ne2d: Farm workers are excluded from federal overtime provisions, and small farms don't even have to pay the minimum wage. Fifteen states don't require farm labor to be covered by workers compensation laws.

Can someone explain why people like farmers so much? I can't think of another industry that has anywhere near the undeserved reputation that agriculture does.


Cheap food keeps people from rioting.
 
2010-06-25 12:25:33 PM
Thoguh: This is a false argument because the flood of cheap labor depreses wages and make automation less attractive. If you have lots of people willing to work for low wages, they aren't going to go up. And if the people will work for cheap there is no reason to invest in inventing/purchasing machinery that could do it instead.

That's not a false argument. That's the actual argument - the only sensible economic argument. But it's actually a purely capitalist arugment for cheap labor. Any alternative will cost more, hence lower profits for the company. Companies don't operate on that basis. So long as this lowest-cost option exists, they'll use it.

If this option is legislated away, it's worth noting that no matter what the future of farm work looks like, the cost of it will be passed directly on to the consumer. It may come in the form of higher prices at the supermarket, or it may come as new taxes that pay for additional farm subsidies / tax breaks / equipment write-offs to keep supermarket prices artificially depressed and make you, the consumer, think everything is just like it used to be.
 
2010-06-25 12:25:34 PM
Roja Herring: I believe Pol Pot tried this exact thing.

And when was the last time you saw an asian kid who was slothfull and didn't work hard?
Worked pretty good.
 
2010-06-25 12:26:19 PM
Thunderpipes:
Ahh, the old liberal warghaballlerr whatever. Don't crack down on illegal aliens, they have rights, crack down on Americans! Why? Well they make it inviting to commit the crime of illegal entry!

Fark off.


Why not do both? Both parties created and perpetuate the problem.
 
2010-06-25 12:26:20 PM
We have laws, and they should be enforced, both on the businesses that employ illegals, and illegal aliens themselves. That is the difference between me and liberals. You guys ONLY want businesses punished, you want the poor picked on illegal bastards to get free stuff and a pat on the back.

And, you won't allow the laws to be enforced against illegals, why should you want them enforced on businesses?
 
2010-06-25 12:27:57 PM
I'm totally bookmarking that for future use.

I think I'm going to have to sucker a few of my Republican-in-denial friends into an argument just to use this.
 
2010-06-25 12:27:58 PM
Thunderpipes: yakmans_dad: Illegal immigration is the great Noh drama of American political life.

All that "anger" is entirely artificial.

The easiest way to drive illegal immigration to 0: make the employers of illegals do time. Don't just arrest them. Convict 'em and make 'em do the time.

Ahh, the old liberal warghaballlerr whatever. Don't crack down on illegal aliens, they have rights, crack down on Americans! Why? Well they make it inviting to commit the crime of illegal entry!

Fark off.


I'm asuming this is a troll, but...

The only people who disagree with cracking down on employers are the employers themselves and people who like to pretend that the border is an evil, unantural construct. Going after employers of illegal immigrants is the best way to solve the problem. Go after the demand instead of the supply.
 
2010-06-25 12:28:44 PM
Let's just send them all back and see what happens with the agriculture business. My guess is that farmers will have to pay workers more, resulting in higher produce prices. So now that $.35 tomato will cost $1! HAHA!!!!1!

Seems worth it to me, I'll start getting them rounded up...
 
2010-06-25 12:29:45 PM
Thoguh: Thunderpipes: yakmans_dad: Illegal immigration is the great Noh drama of American political life.

All that "anger" is entirely artificial.

The easiest way to drive illegal immigration to 0: make the employers of illegals do time. Don't just arrest them. Convict 'em and make 'em do the time.

Ahh, the old liberal warghaballlerr whatever. Don't crack down on illegal aliens, they have rights, crack down on Americans! Why? Well they make it inviting to commit the crime of illegal entry!

Fark off.

I'm asuming this is a troll, but...

The only people who disagree with cracking down on employers are the employers themselves and people who like to pretend that the border is an evil, unantural construct. Going after employers of illegal immigrants is the best way to solve the problem. Go after the demand instead of the supply.


@.@... supply... demand... ZOINKS I FEEL AN ECONOMIC DISCUSSION COMING UP!!
 
2010-06-25 12:30:46 PM
But that would be racist.

Actually it wouldn't be racist. At all. I really get a kick out of the libtards and the racist/xenophobe crap.
Not directed at you, poster, as my sarcasm detector is functioning.
 
2010-06-25 12:31:12 PM
"getting rid of illegals would result in food prices skyrocketing"


Not if we cut welfare and unemployment benifits to american citizens.
 
2010-06-25 12:31:21 PM
Thunderpipes: We have laws, and they should be enforced, both on the businesses that employ illegals, and illegal aliens themselves. That is the difference between me and liberals. You guys ONLY want businesses punished, you want the poor picked on illegal bastards to get free stuff and a pat on the back.

And, you won't allow the laws to be enforced against illegals, why should you want them enforced on businesses?



Personally I want people who are here illegally to be deported. In the long run I would like them to stop coming here illegally. The only way to do that is for the jobs to dry up. I would support a fine of $100,000 for every illegal employed and a $2,000 reward for any whistle blower who reports the violation. Use that money to fund more investigations and strengthen our border.
 
2010-06-25 12:31:43 PM
Millennium: There's also the matter of food prices. They will go up as we fix the industry, and there's no way around that, given that the entire point of putting these things into place was to lower food prices and/or keep them from rising. It has been a very long time since food prices were a major issue in a US election. That is going to have to change, and the effect on the political landscape is going to be very hard to predict. Who wants to touch that off?

Obviously TFA PBoy used doesn't since they reduce it down to an increase of three cents for two apples instead of a more realistic view of the total number of dollars more each year for a family. Not taking sides, but if you want to pull the wool over the sheep's eyes, you boil it down to three cents (for a whole pound!) of apples. *rolls eyes*
 
2010-06-25 12:31:50 PM
Thunderpipes: yakmans_dad: Illegal immigration is the great Noh drama of American political life.

All that "anger" is entirely artificial.

The easiest way to drive illegal immigration to 0: make the employers of illegals do time. Don't just arrest them. Convict 'em and make 'em do the time.

Ahh, the old liberal warghaballlerr whatever. Don't crack down on illegal aliens, they have rights, crack down on Americans! Why? Well they make it inviting to commit the crime of illegal entry!

Fark off.


Is there any reason you can't do both? Remove their incentive to immigrate illegally, remove the source of illegally cheap labour.
 
2010-06-25 12:32:11 PM
ne2d: Can someone explain why people like farmers so much? I can't think of another industry that has anywhere near the undeserved reputation that agriculture does.

They grow the stuff you eat. Year round, success and failure is totally out of their hands when it comes to the weather. No cost of living adjustments, living where most farkers say "fly over state."

/Wheat farmboy for 20 years
//On a Reservation
///Saw alot of folks fly over
 
2010-06-25 12:32:13 PM
Thoguh: This is a false argument because the flood of cheap labor depreses wages and make automation less attractive. If you have lots of people willing to work for low wages, they aren't going to go up. And if the people will work for cheap there is no reason to invest in inventing/purchasing machinery that could do it instead.

I hate arguments like this because they boil down to attempts at justifying the exploitation of a slave-like underclass of illegals. They are people just like us and pretending they are some kind of noble savages because they're willing to work for cheap so they can send money home is crap.



Yep. This exactly. The unlimited supply of exploitable labor creates the situation of low wages and undesirable working conditions in the first place. So to argue that we need the explaotable labor to do the job is a circular argument. Colbert backs some braindead things sometimes, but this suprises me even for him.
 
2010-06-25 12:32:49 PM
The stupid burns. Such a brain dead article.

Only 3% of illegals work on the farms.

Sounds like illegals think they are too good to do farm work too.

So where are the other 97% working ? A lot of them are taking what use to be middle-class jobs.

*****************************

Where they work: A breakdown on illegal aliens.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12208467/

*******************************

So between this msnbc article and the one Party Boy posted ...

we see the arguments of why we supposedly "need" illegal immigrants are just a bunch of lies again
 
2010-06-25 12:33:00 PM
Thoguh: This is a false argument because the flood of cheap labor depreses wages and make automation less attractive. If you have lots of people willing to work for low wages, they aren't going to go up. And if the people will work for cheap there is no reason to invest in inventing/purchasing machinery that could do it instead.

I hate arguments like this because they boil down to attempts at justifying the exploitation of a slave-like underclass of illegals. They are people just like us and pretending they are some kind of noble savages because they're willing to work for cheap so they can send money home is crap.

If we actually enforced the border would it be harder for someone to find a cheap maid or lawncare? Maybe, but other groups would move in to fill those gaps. The labor market right now is distorted by millions of people willing to work for almost nothing and with little or no regard for safety and labor laws.

Besides, the midwestern equivelant, detassling, has always been a summer job for high school kids, so its not like you can't hire citizens or legal immigrants to do the work, it's just cheaper not to.


I know someone (now a lawyer/college professor) who detassled for a summer in Illinois and described it as the most miserable job she ever had. Yet on the "shiatty farm jobs" scale de-tasseling is one o fthe easiest and nicest jobs you could hope for as a maigrant worker. Picking produce, particularly on ground plants is MUCH harder, and it you want a vision of hell, look into what is required to harvest sugar cane (and it's a process that has resisted automation since its too hard on the machinery). It's no accident that the first sucessful slave revolts in the new world came from the sugar plantations of Haiti. death was far perferable to working under those conditions
 
2010-06-25 12:33:29 PM
What a bullshiat argument, I've seen Mexican illegal:

bricklayers
concrete finishers
electricians
roofers
cooks
grocery stock clerks
the list goes on

Those are jobs big business gives to illegals instead of American citizens. Worst of all they aren't taxed and they are frugal, with the majority of that money being wired straight to their Mexican families back home, doing all of jack and shiat to help our economy recover.
 
2010-06-25 12:33:42 PM
Wingchild: That's not a false argument. That's the actual argument - the only sensible economic argument. But it's actually a purely capitalist arugment for cheap labor. Any alternative will cost more, hence lower profits for the company. Companies don't operate on that basis. So long as this lowest-cost option exists, they'll use it.

The argument that American's won't do it is false. The jobs are currently listed at depressed wages. Were the huge numbers of immigrants not an influencing factor on the wages, then they (the wages) would be forced to respond to the marketplace of labor. [Which, as you state, one option is to opt out of the marketplace and use machinery... which employs builders]

Wingchild: If this option is legislated away, it's worth noting that no matter what the future of farm work looks like, the cost of it will be passed directly on to the consumer. It may come in the form of higher prices at the supermarket, or it may come as new taxes that pay for additional farm subsidies / tax breaks / equipment write-offs to keep supermarket prices artificially depressed and make you, the consumer, think everything is just like it used to be.

Oh, you are an insightful one. Of course the cost will enter the marketplace. If the seller goes too high, however, they will starve themselves. Additionally, it has been pointed out earlier in this thread that the price percentage increase would be in single digits even though the wage percent increase could be 40%. It's not a 1::1.
 
2010-06-25 12:33:42 PM
Knara: With a far, far smaller population and with current staples like sugar, salt, and meat being relatively expensive.

FTFY. Take a look at the modern American diet and tell me how much "vegetables" you see vs how much "fruit-flavored high fructose corn syrup solution".
 
2010-06-25 12:34:18 PM
TheShavingofOccam123: But that would be racist.

no, it wouldn't. don't confuse rational people taking exception with racist laws/enforcement methodologies with those people opposing enforcing immigration law.

I'll chew out racist farknuts out of one side of my mouth, and talk about how illegal immigration is flooding the labor pool and depressing the value of labor out the other side all day long.

they're not contradictory positions.

trippdogg: Any other former corn detasselers out there? The lowliest migrant field worker is a robber baron compared to a farking corn detasseler.

detasseled five years, four of them as a team supervisor.


nelsonal

using your muscles can give you an exercise high, plus you can chatter while you work.
 
2010-06-25 12:34:34 PM
Thunderpipes: We have laws, and they should be enforced, both on the businesses that employ illegals, and illegal aliens themselves. That is the difference between me and liberals. You guys ONLY want businesses punished, you want the poor picked on illegal bastards to get free stuff and a pat on the back.

And, you won't allow the laws to be enforced against illegals, why should you want them enforced on businesses?


Where did this liberal state that? Enforce both.

Exact punishment on the businesses, and deport any workers here illegally.

You did know deportations are supposedly near record levels, right; and they want to increase them to 400,000?

Link (new window)
 
2010-06-25 12:34:36 PM
Party Boy: But supermarket prices of summer-fall fruits and vegetables, they concluded, would rise by just 6 percent in the short run - dropping to 3 percent over time, as imports took up some of the slack and some farmers mechanized their operations or shifted out of labor-intensive crops. (Winter-spring produce would be even less affected, they found, because so much already is imported.)


Which is not an acceptable alternative unless you want to compound energy dependence with food supply dependence.
 
2010-06-25 12:34:58 PM
kgloverfl: Let's just send them all back and see what happens with the agriculture business. My guess is that farmers will have to pay workers more, resulting in higher produce prices. So now that $.35 tomato will cost $1! HAHA!!!!1!

Probably more like $.40.
 
2010-06-25 12:35:11 PM
Thoguh: The only people who disagree with cracking down on employers are the employers themselves and people who like to pretend that the border is an evil, unantural construct. Going after employers of illegal immigrants is the best way to solve the problem. Go after the demand instead of the supply.

And people who believe in the free market and American values. We're fine with going after them for tax evasion, but couldn't care less if someone hires all the illegals they want, so long as they pay taxes just like anyone else.

And be aware that when you get all wharrrgarbly about how illegals don't pays taxes (or use bad SSNs to do so) it is because you make it illegal for them to pay taxes. Fix that problem, don't destroy the economy over some nationalist bullshiat.
 
2010-06-25 12:37:19 PM
I've picked lettuce for no wages near Salinas as part of a Second Harvest campaign. It's not exactly the hardest work in the world but there is some lifting and a lot of walking involved.
 
2010-06-25 12:38:06 PM
Brainwash: Those are jobs big business gives to illegals instead of American citizens. Worst of all they aren't taxed and they are frugal, with the majority of that money being wired straight to their Mexican families back home, doing all of jack and shiat to help our economy recover.

Oh noes! Teh illegals are fiscally responsible! Someone hold a gun to their heads and make them get an FHA loan and buy a McMansion!
 
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