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(Yahoo)   "They took our jobs" "Here's a website where you can apply for harvest work usually done by immigrants. It's over 100 out, no overtime pay, and farms don't have to pay minimum wage." "...Wargarble"   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 359
    More: Interesting, minimum wages, overtime, subsidized housing, labor force, American Jobs, Bureau of Labor Statistics, illegal immigrants, grapes  
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16734 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jun 2010 at 11:54 AM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



359 Comments   (+0 »)
   

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2010-06-25 09:27:11 AM  
Farm workers are excluded from federal overtime provisions, and small farms don't even have to pay the minimum wage. Fifteen states don't require farm labor to be covered by workers compensation laws.

Can someone explain why people like farmers so much? I can't think of another industry that has anywhere near the undeserved reputation that agriculture does.
 
2010-06-25 09:36:07 AM  
ne2d: Farm workers are excluded from federal overtime provisions, and small farms don't even have to pay the minimum wage. Fifteen states don't require farm labor to be covered by workers compensation laws.

Can someone explain why people like farmers so much? I can't think of another industry that has anywhere near the undeserved reputation that agriculture does.


salt of the earth, real 'murkans, etc.
 
2010-06-25 09:37:27 AM  
I was going to sign up, but I don't think the facilities will accommodate my motorized wheel chair. Also, it's a lot of work to apply for things.
 
2010-06-25 09:38:54 AM  
sweetmelissa31: I was going to sign up, but I don't think the facilities will accommodate my motorized wheel chair. Also, it's a lot of work to apply for things.

...but you'd get to pick your own burger/sub toppings.
 
2010-06-25 09:39:50 AM  
They should also start this for roofers.
 
2010-06-25 09:41:36 AM  
ne2d: Can someone explain why people like farmers so much? I can't think of another industry that has anywhere near the undeserved reputation that agriculture does.

Vital part of the survival of any country, I suppose.
 
2010-06-25 09:41:39 AM  
The-Brain: ...but you'd get to pick your own burger/sub toppings.

Can you pick cheese and more meat?
 
2010-06-25 09:41:50 AM  
I'd lie to see that leather-faced troll that is Governor of Arizona try her hand at this for a week or two.

If she couldn't hack it they could always tie her to a fencepost to scare birds, rodents, and small children away.
 
2010-06-25 09:44:51 AM  
This is a false argument because the flood of cheap labor depreses wages and make automation less attractive. If you have lots of people willing to work for low wages, they aren't going to go up. And if the people will work for cheap there is no reason to invest in inventing/purchasing machinery that could do it instead.

I hate arguments like this because they boil down to attempts at justifying the exploitation of a slave-like underclass of illegals. They are people just like us and pretending they are some kind of noble savages because they're willing to work for cheap so they can send money home is crap.

If we actually enforced the border would it be harder for someone to find a cheap maid or lawncare? Maybe, but other groups would move in to fill those gaps. The labor market right now is distorted by millions of people willing to work for almost nothing and with little or no regard for safety and labor laws.

Besides, the midwestern equivelant, detassling, has always been a summer job for high school kids, so its not like you can't hire citizens or legal immigrants to do the work, it's just cheaper not to.
 
2010-06-25 09:45:22 AM  
sweetmelissa31: Can you pick cheese and more meat?

You mean there are no bacon trees?
 
2010-06-25 09:45:34 AM  
FlashHarry: salt of the earth, real 'murkans, etc.

Oh, and they do jobs that the vast majority of the country couldn't or wouldn't do.
 
2010-06-25 09:49:25 AM  
sweetmelissa31: I was going to sign up, but I don't think the facilities will accommodate my motorized wheel chair. Also, it's a lot of work to apply for things.

But you can make a fortune with a discrimination lawsuit under the Americans with Disabilities Act.

cha-CHING!
 
2010-06-25 09:50:12 AM  
ne2d: Can someone explain why people like farmers so much? I can't think of another industry that has anywhere near the undeserved reputation that agriculture does.

There is romanticized history of what farming was for your parent or grandparents, and what it is now.

/let that rot in the silo, we have to keep prices stable!
 
2010-06-25 10:06:15 AM  
make me some tea: Vital part of the survival of any country, I suppose.

So is infrastructure. Why can't we then make road workers and construction workers work for less than $5 an hour?
 
2010-06-25 10:07:36 AM  
Which is why they don't WANT to be made legal. Then they'd have to be paid legal wage and buhbye jobs.
 
2010-06-25 10:07:52 AM  
stebain: make me some tea: Vital part of the survival of any country, I suppose.

So is infrastructure. Why can't we then make road workers and construction workers work for less than $5 an hour?


Most of us will survive without roads. We won't survive long without food, though.
 
2010-06-25 10:16:32 AM  
stebain: make me some tea: Vital part of the survival of any country, I suppose.

So is infrastructure. Why can't we then make road workers and construction workers work for less than $5 an hour?


I'm not super-knowledgeable about road construction etc, but my guess would be that they are unionized, and sadly, the migrant farm workers are not.
 
2010-06-25 10:19:11 AM  
Tastes Like Chicken: stebain: make me some tea: Vital part of the survival of any country, I suppose.

So is infrastructure. Why can't we then make road workers and construction workers work for less than $5 an hour?

I'm not super-knowledgeable about road construction etc, but my guess would be that they are unionized, and sadly, the migrant farm workers are not.


Sure they are. They're reverse unionized by the Farmers Union.
 
2010-06-25 10:20:29 AM  
No $50/hour picking lettuce jobs?
 
2010-06-25 10:22:03 AM  
make me some tea: stebain: make me some tea: Vital part of the survival of any country, I suppose.

So is infrastructure. Why can't we then make road workers and construction workers work for less than $5 an hour?

Most of us will survive without roads. We won't survive long without food, though.



I think you forget how the food gets to you.
 
2010-06-25 10:22:34 AM  
removing all illegal farmworkers would raise wages for seasonal farmworkers by 30 percent in the first couple of years, and 15 percent in the medium term.

But supermarket prices of summer-fall fruits and vegetables, they concluded, would rise by just 6 percent in the short run - dropping to 3 percent over time, as imports took up some of the slack and some farmers mechanized their operations or shifted out of labor-intensive crops. (Winter-spring produce would be even less affected, they found, because so much already is imported.)

If illegal workers disappeared from the apple harvest and wages for the remaining legal workers rose by 40 percent in response - and that entire wage increase were passed on to the consumer - that still would add less than 3 cents to the retail price of a pound of apples.
 
2010-06-25 10:25:15 AM  
Thoguh: make me some tea: stebain: make me some tea: Vital part of the survival of any country, I suppose.

So is infrastructure. Why can't we then make road workers and construction workers work for less than $5 an hour?

Most of us will survive without roads. We won't survive long without food, though.


I think you forget how the food gets to you.


With a fork.
 
2010-06-25 10:26:47 AM  
The people who benefit from this are, really, the top wealth percentages, who can reap the bulk savings.

It hurts the US poor worker in direct competition. Benefits the US rich.
 
2010-06-25 10:30:28 AM  
EatHam: Thoguh: make me some tea: stebain: make me some tea: Vital part of the survival of any country, I suppose.

So is infrastructure. Why can't we then make road workers and construction workers work for less than $5 an hour?

Most of us will survive without roads. We won't survive long without food, though.


I think you forget how the food gets to you.

With a fork.


forks are so 20th century.
 
2010-06-25 10:32:55 AM  
To be fair, it is not easy to get farm work in this country.

Smaller farms rely on a very tight pool of experienced workers, who've they've built relationships with, and their families, often over generations. It is not an easy community to just roll into. It helps to have friends who work on the farm, or have family who've worked there.

Mid sized farms tend to rely on that smaller labor pool, but expand upon it with guest workers. Guest workers are a solid pool, most of the time with guaranteed skills by the agency, and that takes care of a lot of hassles. It also means that jobs are not even advertised for, because they're filled long before the season starts. Even hearing about jobs at a medium sized farm is rare, because they already have locals who they've built up relationships with, or already contracted for.

Large factory farms often have their labor contracted for before the planting begins, and long before harvest. Those positions are filled by guest workers, who have been found through agencies, for a fee that is still smaller than their own HR search for applicants. It comes down to this: getting a job on a farm in this country is not simply something that you roll into the field for. Not at the small farm level, not the mid sized, and certainly not at the corporate agribusiness level. Migrant workers ARE organized in that they have built up relationships with farms over the years, or are contracted by agencies that do the same thing.

You want one of these farm jobs? Good luck finding it. You'd best know someone who already works there, knows the family, or hook yourself up with an agency that will vet you. Even undocumented workers usually have relationships that get them in the door, because otherwise you're screwed. You're better off trying to get a construction job at the Home Depot parking lot.
 
2010-06-25 10:33:29 AM  
We need to bus children there to work.
Make them put down the gadgets and get some excersize, fresh air and sunshine.
 
2010-06-25 10:33:57 AM  
Yeah, sorry, but logically I have to side with it being a false argument. Without a large cheap labor pool of illegal immigrants, the work would still have to be done, so wages would increase to attract more workers. There would be a small increase in our prices at the grocery, which to me is fine if it means paying farm workers a fair wage.


Party Boy

removing all illegal farmworkers would raise wages for seasonal farmworkers by 30 percent in the first couple of years, and 15 percent in the medium term ...
that still would add less than 3 cents to the retail price of a pound of apples.


Citation?
 
2010-06-25 10:36:40 AM  
RockIsDead: Which is why they don't WANT to be made legal. Then they'd have to be paid legal wage and buhbye jobs.

This is the first thing I've ever heard you say that's made sense/been non-trolling. Why the fark does everyone think there's been no headway made on the illegal immigration issue by anyone on either side of the political aisle?

The people with the money have a vested interest in keeping things the way they are- farmers, businesses, and the Federal Government. Hell, that's one of the ways that's been proposed to keep Medicare/SS in the black, is to let illegal immigrants pay into it, since they can't cash out of it.
 
2010-06-25 10:39:11 AM  
Been there, done that. Some of the hardest and most rewarding work I've done.
 
2010-06-25 10:39:30 AM  
vudukungfu: We need to bus children there to work.
Make them put down the gadgets and get some excersize, fresh air and sunshine.


I believe Pol Pot tried this exact thing.
 
2010-06-25 10:40:18 AM  
patrick767: Party Boy
removing all illegal farmworkers would raise wages for seasonal farmworkers by 30 percent in the first couple of years, and 15 percent in the medium term ...
that still would add less than 3 cents to the retail price of a pound of apples.

Citation?


Be careful what you wish for... you just might get it. Frankly I was surprised there wasn't like 57 citations in the post already.
 
2010-06-25 10:40:49 AM  
 
2010-06-25 10:46:00 AM  
The-Brain: sweetmelissa31: Can you pick cheese and more meat?

You mean there are no bacon trees?


Bacon TREES?!? Helloooo, McFly!

Bacon is quarried. Clearly sedimentary; look at the layers.
 
2010-06-25 10:47:52 AM  
RockIsDead: Which is why they don't WANT to be made legal. Then they'd have to be paid legal wage and buhbye jobs.

Um, how would the fruits get picked?

.
 
2010-06-25 10:48:28 AM  
Tastes Like Chicken: Be careful what you wish for... you just might get it. Frankly I was surprised there wasn't like 57 citations in the post already.

I loled

Have some pie

i.imgur.com

(quick graph rounded figures)
 
2010-06-25 10:50:02 AM  
those figures are from this pic, but its small

i.imgur.com
 
Pud
2010-06-25 10:56:48 AM  
The-Brain: sweetmelissa31: Can you pick cheese and more meat?

You mean there are no bacon trees?


Now that's just silly. Bacon doesn't grow on trees. Spaghetti does. Everyone knows that.

www.juniorsociety.com
 
2010-06-25 10:57:02 AM  
I detassled corn when I was a kid. I don't recall making minimum wage either.
 
2010-06-25 10:57:34 AM  
DistendedPendulusFrenulum: RockIsDead: Which is why they don't WANT to be made legal. Then they'd have to be paid legal wage and buhbye jobs.

Um, how would the fruits get picked?

.


Bootstraps.
 
2010-06-25 11:00:55 AM  
Dancin_In_Anson: Been there, done that. Some of the hardest and most rewarding work I've done.

My mom had three children and an very large garden. Ask me about spending hours a day picking beans and weeding carrots.
 
2010-06-25 11:02:06 AM  
Tastes Like Chicken
Be careful what you wish for... you just might get it. Frankly I was surprised there wasn't like 57 citations in the post already.


Be careful? Did you read my first paragraph? I agreed with him in theory. I just wanted a citation for the statistics he posted and I got it.

Party Boy
(looks up)
yep, must have dropped that


Thanks. I've previously called bullshiat on people's doomsday predictions of how our produce prices would skyrocket if farms didn't have illegal workers to underpay. It's nice to see some data.
 
2010-06-25 11:04:27 AM  
patrick767: Thanks. I've previously called bullshiat on people's doomsday predictions of how our produce prices would skyrocket if farms didn't have illegal workers to underpay. It's nice to see some data.

No Problemo.
 
2010-06-25 11:06:31 AM  
Party Boy: Tastes Like Chicken: Be careful what you wish for... you just might get it. Frankly I was surprised there wasn't like 57 citations in the post already.

I loled


:) I'm glad. Just a little good-natured ribbing. Man, I've seen you post some doozies. Like reading a term-paper.

patrick767: Be careful? Did you read my first paragraph? I agreed with him in theory. I just wanted a citation for the statistics he posted and I got it.

You obviously don't know Party Boy.
 
2010-06-25 11:08:43 AM  
vudukungfu: We need to bus children there to work.
Make them put down the gadgets and get some excersize, fresh air and sunshine.


Some of the best days of my life as a kid were working with my grandfather planting hundreds and hundreds of hills of pumpkins, endless rows of broccoli, weeding peppers and picking corn at 5am when the dew is still heavy on the fields.

Those were great days, even if I didn't think so at the time.
 
2010-06-25 11:10:20 AM  
benlonghair: Those were great days, even if I didn't think so at the time.

Funny how that works...
 
2010-06-25 11:10:45 AM  
Tastes Like Chicken: I'm glad. Just a little good-natured ribbing. Man, I've seen you post some doozies. Like reading a term-paper.

:)
 
2010-06-25 11:18:09 AM  
Tastes Like Chicken: Funny how that works...

I would give just about anything to go back to that. The smell of fresh tilled soil in the sun, dirt under your finger nails and on the knees of your jeans, Pogo, grandpa's dog sleeping at the end of the row or chasing after woodchucks.

Brings a tear to the eye.
 
2010-06-25 11:22:23 AM  
Party Boy: as imports took up some of the slack and some farmers mechanized their operations or shifted out of labor-intensive crops.

So, shipping jobs overseas or turning it over to robots or just reduce choices for the consumer. Kinda like the auto industry.
 
2010-06-25 11:25:39 AM  
Thoguh: make me some tea: stebain: make me some tea: Vital part of the survival of any country, I suppose.

So is infrastructure. Why can't we then make road workers and construction workers work for less than $5 an hour?

Most of us will survive without roads. We won't survive long without food, though.


I think you forget how the food gets to you.


In some places, yes. Don't forget though, we supported ourselves with agriculture for millenia before roads were built.
 
2010-06-25 11:27:01 AM  
what_now: My mom had three children and an very large garden. Ask me about spending hours a day picking beans and weeding carrots.

I worked in a West Texas wine grape vineyard while looking for "real" employment. I was the only weddo (aside from the owner) in the field. Planting the new, pruning and training the old, setting the trellis working irrigation...Did some harvest too even after getting a "real" job. I was thankful for the work.
 
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