The pro-Israeli right doesn't have a knob that goes to eleven; it's a toggle switch.

As the people wise up,if these terror Ashkenazis don't quit messing around,Adolph's recreation centers will look to them more and more like a place to be.With "friends"like that,who needs enemies ?

IPS? (fark the Jews News)

You have a source a little more towards the center, like say Pravda?

I recall a story from the old testament where Moses ordered his troops to murder all men, women and children from a certain village he wanted to capture to assault Egypt or something (it was on history channel a while back).

So his troops go in and kill all the men but can't kill the women or children so they bring them back. Moses gets all pissy and starts killing them himself and forces the other men to also help him massacre hundreds, if not thousands of women and children in the name of God.

Don't kow if it is true, but it is in the old testament.


http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm (new window)

Did a little GIS and found out that the jews hate everybody.

BuckTurgidson: The pro-Israeli right doesn't have a knob that goes to eleven; it's a toggle switch.

Neocons only love democracy when it's convenient for them, otherwise they love military coups.

TheShavingofOccam123: whammer: The US communists were like that with the Nazis as well.

First they were anti-Nazi, then when Hitler signed the treaty with Stalin, suddenly the US communists were all in favor of the Nazis. Then, when Hitler invaded the Soviet Union, the US communists all went back to being anti-Nazi. Well, not enough to want to fight the Nazis personally, but willing to demand that the US fight them.

Give me the traditional bed-rock consistent hatred fomented by American racists. Politics is too wishy-washy. Deep limbic fear and hatred of difference is what you can build a movement on.

That's why I'm a Republican.

Cuz the Republicans opposed the war against the Nazi's and condemned the Nuremberg trials as "victor'S justice"?

As an Israeli, I have to say it always bothered me that we do business with the perpetrators of the Armenian genocide. You'd think we would have learned something. Not that it's not easy to make friends in this part of the woods. But I think total trade between us and them is only about $1 billion each way. I think a clean conscience is worth a lot more than that.

whammer: The US communists were like that with the Nazis as well.

First they were anti-Nazi, then when Hitler signed the treaty with Stalin, suddenly the US communists were all in favor of the Nazis. Then, when Hitler invaded the Soviet Union, the US communists all went back to being anti-Nazi. Well, not enough to want to fight the Nazis personally, but willing to demand that the US fight them.


Abraham Lincoln Brigade says what?

AngryRetard: So his troops go in and kill all the men but can't kill the women or children so they bring them back. Moses gets all pissy and starts killing them himself and forces the other men to also help him massacre hundreds, if not thousands of women and children in the name of God.

Don't kow if it is true, but it is in the old testament.

Hi, let me give you a little suggestion, your anti-bible raving would be a lot more effective if you actually read it instead of making shiat up.

icanhazbara: As an Israeli, I have to say it always bothered me that we do business with the perpetrators of the Armenian genocide. You'd think we would have learned something. Not that it's not easy to make friends in this part of the woods. But I think total trade between us and them is only about $1 billion each way. I think a clean conscience is worth a lot more than that.


Stealing people's houses in East Jerusalem, throwing them out into the streets, and then moving "settlers" into the now-vacant houses doesn't bother your consience at all?

And having a government that launches white phosphorus rounds at UN hospitals doesn't bother your conscience at all?

And having a government that launches attacks on civilan vessels in international waters, before shooting civilians in the back of the head four times, after being videotaped beating them half-to-death doesn't bother your conscience at all?

But, a 90-year-old genocide, perpetrated by a nation that no longer exists (The Ottoman Empire
), by perpatrators who have all died of old age, THIS keeps you awake at night?

You're a real mensch, aren't you?

icanhazbara: As an Israeli, I have to say it always bothered me that we do business with the perpetrators of the Armenian genocide. You'd think we would have learned something. Not that it's not easy to make friends in this part of the woods. But I think total trade between us and them is only about $1 billion each way. I think a clean conscience is worth a lot more than that.

Does it bother you to take billions a year from some of the perpetrators of the Native American Genocide?

Philip Francis Queeg: icanhazbara: As an Israeli, I have to say it always bothered me that we do business with the perpetrators of the Armenian genocide. You'd think we would have learned something. Not that it's not easy to make friends in this part of the woods. But I think total trade between us and them is only about $1 billion each way. I think a clean conscience is worth a lot more than that.

Does it bother you to take billions a year from some of the perpetrators of the Native American Genocide?

For this and other reasons, yes. One difference, though, is that the US doesn't deny what it did and at least attempts to make reparations
.

icanhazbara: Philip Francis Queeg: icanhazbara: As an Israeli, I have to say it always bothered me that we do business with the perpetrators of the Armenian genocide. You'd think we would have learned something. Not that it's not easy to make friends in this part of the woods. But I think total trade between us and them is only about $1 billion each way. I think a clean conscience is worth a lot more than that.

Does it bother you to take billions a year from some of the perpetrators of the Native American Genocide?

For this and other reasons, yes. One difference, though, is that the US doesn't deny what it did and at least attempts to make reparations
.

Feel free to lobby your government to refuse our dirty money. You won't hurt our feelings.

icanhazbara: AngryRetard: So his troops go in and kill all the men but can't kill the women or children so they bring them back. Moses gets all pissy and starts killing them himself and forces the other men to also help him massacre hundreds, if not thousands of women and children in the name of God.

Don't kow if it is true, but it is in the old testament.

Hi, let me give you a little suggestion, your anti-bible raving would be a lot more effective if you actually read it instead of making shiat up.

Num 31:17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. (new window)

General Zang:

Stealing people's houses in East Jerusalem, throwing them out into the streets, and then moving "settlers" into the now-vacant houses doesn't bother your consience at all?

I have to say that this is the only thing that bothers me, but for a different reason. You seem to have only heard one side of the story -- the 2 recent cases in shiekh jarrah were the courts honoring claims by pre-war owners to those properties, who were subsequently expelled in the ethnic cleansing of East Jerusalem by the Jordanians in 1948. What bothers me is that it opens the door to claims by Arabs who lost property in West Jerusalem as well.



And having a government that launches white phosphorus rounds at UN hospitals doesn't bother your conscience at all?

It was bad PR but I don't think there was anything morally wrong with it.

And having a government that launches attacks on civilan vessels in international waters, before shooting civilians in the back of the head four times, after being videotaped beating them half-to-death doesn't bother your conscience at all?

No, doesn't bother me, and there is not a single thing to apologize for. Morans declared their intent to be shahids and ran our military blockade. They got what they deserved.

But, a 90-year-old genocide, perpetrated by a nation that no longer exists (The Ottoman Empire
), by perpatrators who have all died of old age, THIS keeps you awake at night?

The Turk nation is still right there, the empire is gone. Not that it keeps me up at night.

RidgeRacerZX6:
Num 31:17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. (new window)

Very nice use of copy and paste there. Maybe now you can teach him how to read and paraphrase accurately, instead of mixing up 2 different stories.

FTFA: "If Turkey finds its best friends to be Iran, Hamas, Syria and Brazil (look for Venezuela in the future) the security of that information (and Western technology in weapons in Turkey's arsenal) is suspect. The United States should seriously consider suspending military cooperation with Turkey as a prelude to removing it from the organisation," suggested the group.

...

Kicking your feet and throwing a temper-tantrum because you don't get your way is the manner in which 3-year-olds behave. This sounds exactly like:

"IT'S NOT FAIR! YOU HATE ME! I DON'T EVER WANT TO SEE YOU AGAIN! AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH! AHHHHHHHHHH! IF YOU LOVED ME YOU WOULDN'T TELL ME NO!"

/because clearly if a friendly country condemns a legally murky military action against a civilian ship under its nation's flag, the only logical conclusion is that it's working with your enemies.

icanhazbara: General Zang:

Stealing people's houses in East Jerusalem, throwing them out into the streets, and then moving "settlers" into the now-vacant houses doesn't bother your consience at all?

I have to say that this is the only thing that bothers me, but for a different reason. You seem to have only heard one side of the story -- the 2 recent cases in shiekh jarrah were the courts honoring claims by pre-war owners to those properties, who were subsequently expelled in the ethnic cleansing of East Jerusalem by the Jordanians in 1948. What bothers me is that it opens the door to claims by Arabs who lost property in West Jerusalem as well.



And having a government that launches white phosphorus rounds at UN hospitals doesn't bother your conscience at all?

It was bad PR but I don't think there was anything morally wrong with it.

And having a government that launches attacks on civilan vessels in international waters, before shooting civilians in the back of the head four times, after being videotaped beating them half-to-death doesn't bother your conscience at all?

No, doesn't bother me, and there is not a single thing to apologize for. Morans declared their intent to be shahids and ran our military blockade. They got what they deserved.

But, a 90-year-old genocide, perpetrated by a nation that no longer exists (The Ottoman Empire
), by perpatrators who have all died of old age, THIS keeps you awake at night?

The Turk nation is still right there, the empire is gone. Not that it keeps me up at night.



Wow, you're not shy about revealing what it is that you are, are you?

With your talk of "The Turk Nation", you sure do sound like a rascist piece of shiat.

If I was an asshole, then my only desire for you and your nation, would be that some day, you would reap what you have sown... and that someday, the world would show your nation the same level of compasion and humanity that you have shown to those whose land and houses you stole, and if I was really a huge asshole then I'd wish that one day your nation would be occupied by folks that could laugh off shooting your civilians in the head for the crime of being in international waters on an aid ship, or that you'd be under the bootheels of occupiers who could chuckle about using white phosphorus rounds on UN hospitals.

In other words, if I was an asshole, I'd wish you upon yourselves.

icanhazbara: As an Israeli, I have to say it always bothered me that we do business with the perpetrators of the Armenian genocide. You'd think we would have learned something. Not that it's not easy to make friends in this part of the woods. But I think total trade between us and them is only about $1 billion each way. I think a clean conscience is worth a lot more than that.

Absolutely. I find it especially disturbing that foreign policy people have whispered lately that it might call a genocide a genocide if Turkey doesn't fall in line.

It's either a genocide or it's not. I don't think the truth should ever be negotiable. Can you imagine if the Allies hadn't defeated Hitler, and then decades later they used denial of the Holocaust as leverage? "Do what we say or we'll acknowledge the obvious fact that you murdered millions of minorities."

icanhazbara: No, doesn't bother me, and there is not a single thing to apologize for. Morans declared their intent to be shahids and ran our military blockade. They got what they deserved.

The Israeli naval blockade is 3 nautical miles offshore.
Territorial waters extend to 12.5 nautical miles offshore.
They blockade runners were boarded 80 miles offshore... in international waters.

That's not kosher by anyone's standard.

Is the argument here "shut up. you are as bad as us"?

indylaw:
"/because clearly if a friendly country condemns a legally murky military action against a civilian ship under its nation's flag, the only logical conclusion is that it's working with your enemies."


[inigo_montoya.jpg]


This "friendly" nation SENT the "civilian"(*) ship to provoke said military action, and is now crying that its fist hurts after it threw a punch and an ACTUAL friendly nation blocked it.


(*) What "civilians" may look like:

spmkk: indylaw:
"/because clearly if a friendly country condemns a legally murky military action against a civilian ship under its nation's flag, the only logical conclusion is that it's working with your enemies."


[inigo_montoya.jpg]


This "friendly" nation SENT the "civilian"(*) ship to provoke said military action, and is now crying that its fist hurts after it threw a punch and an ACTUAL friendly nation blocked it.


(*) What "civilians" may look like:

So you are claiming that the vessel was in the direct hire of the Government of Turkey, as were the people on board?

Annoyance: Also, am I the only one that seems to notice Israel is seemingly being ran by scores of Otto von Bismarck clones?

/in chorus
//"Israel shall be unified through blood and iron!"
///Otto von Bismarck (new window), he's worth reading up on, surprisingly effective and unsubtle tactician- gave chillingly accurate prediction about ww1.

Bismarck was an intelligent, assertive, iron willed, dynamic man. Very interesting character. Your above comparison is insulting to him.

General Zang: icanhazbara: General Zang:

Wow, you're not shy about revealing what it is that you are, are you?

With your talk of "The Turk Nation", you sure do sound like a rascist piece of shiat.


Do I just sound like one, or am I one?

Guess what, the Turks are a people, just like the Arabs, Jews, Persians, Italians, etc, etc. I'm not really sure what's racist about that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation
A nation is a group of people who share common history, culture, ethnic origin and language, often possessing or seeking its own government.


If I was an asshole, then my only desire for you and your nation, would be that some day, you would reap what you have sown.

I don't need some asshole goy to promise me that, God already did.

indylaw: It's either a genocide or it's not. I don't think the truth should ever be negotiable. Can you imagine if the Allies hadn't defeated Hitler, and then decades later they used denial of the Holocaust as leverage? "Do what we say or we'll acknowledge the obvious fact that you murdered millions of minorities."

That would be a prison term in many countries today.

RoyBatty: General Zang: With your talk of "The Turk Nation", you sure do sound like a rascist piece of shiat.

Can you help clue me in and explain what about that talk of a "Turk Nation" was racist?


It's about context.

I had informed him that the Ottoman Empire, which perpetrated the Armenian Genocide, no longer existed, and that the individual perpetrators had since died of old age.

His response was: The Turk nation is still right there, the empire is gone. Not that it keeps me up at night.

So, somehow the language and ethnic identity of a now-disapeared nation is, in Icanhazbara's mind, a close enough link to tar an entire nation of people, 99.999% of whom weren't even alive in 1914, with guilt and complicity for a crime committed by long-dead others.

And, somehow, the fact that now-dead people who spoke the same language, and had the same culture, as currently-living people, makes the currently-living people reponsible somehow for crimes committed decades before their own births?

This is the very definition of rascism.

I'm sure that if some anti-Jewish rascist were to start discussing crimes committed in the distant past by Hebrew speakers, and then were to talk about how the existence of a "Hebrew Nation" kept him awake at night, that Icanhazbara would suddenly discover that these types of sentiments were rascist in nature and deplorable.

RoyBatty: Can you help clue me in and explain what about that talk of a "Turk Nation" was racist?

The part where the person saying it admitted to being an Israeli, because Israelis are racists, and so every word they say is a racist phrase.

/the infallible logic of a neo-nazi asshole

Philip Francis Queeg: spmkk: indylaw:
"/because clearly if a friendly country condemns a legally murky military action against a civilian ship under its nation's flag, the only logical conclusion is that it's working with your enemies."


[inigo_montoya.jpg]


This "friendly" nation SENT the "civilian"(*) ship to provoke said military action, and is now crying that its fist hurts after it threw a punch and an ACTUAL friendly nation blocked it.


(*) What "civilians" may look like:

So you are claiming that the vessel was in the direct hire of the Government of Turkey, as were the people on board?

No, he's claiming Israel's indisputable right to board vessels on the high seas, because pirates by definition cannot be Jewish.

icanhazbara:

I don't need some asshole goy to promise me that, God already did.


Well, then you're pretty farked then, aren't you?

Malicious Bastard: icanhazbara: No, doesn't bother me, and there is not a single thing to apologize for. Morans declared their intent to be shahids and ran our military blockade. They got what they deserved.

The Israeli naval blockade is 3 nautical miles offshore.
Territorial waters extend to 12.5 nautical miles offshore.
They blockade runners were boarded 80 miles offshore... in international waters.

That's not kosher by anyone's standard.

If someone, for instance an army, announces its intentions to violate your sovereign territory, you do not have to wait for that violation to occur. Anticipatory first strikes are allowed. This rule applies to war between sovereigns, but I believe that the principle can be applied to private actors.

Although the Convention on the High Seas generally prohibits extraterritorial boardings, I believe that this could count as a customary exception.

That said, Israel should have waited. Its right to board within its own waters would have been indisputable.

Malicious Bastard: icanhazbara: No, doesn't bother me, and there is not a single thing to apologize for. Morans declared their intent to be shahids and ran our military blockade. They got what they deserved.

The Israeli naval blockade is 3 nautical miles offshore.
Territorial waters extend to 12.5 nautical miles offshore.
They blockade runners were boarded 80 miles offshore... in international waters.

That's not kosher by anyone's standard.

I am fine with it. The idiots on board knew what they were getting themselves into.

Philip Francis Queeg:
"So you are claiming that the vessel was in the direct hire of the Government of Turkey, as were the people on board?"


It doesn't really matter. If somebody comes to you and says they want to borrow your car (or perhaps more analogous in this case, to borrow your license plates to put on their car) to use as a getaway vehicle in a bank robbery, and you say "OK" because you don't like that bank, the cops would be completely right to come and arrest you - even if you weren't the one driving the getaway vehicle.

spmkk: indylaw:
"/because clearly if a friendly country condemns a legally murky military action against a civilian ship under its nation's flag, the only logical conclusion is that it's working with your enemies."


[inigo_montoya.jpg]


This "friendly" nation SENT the "civilian"(*) ship to provoke said military action, and is now crying that its fist hurts after it threw a punch and an ACTUAL friendly nation blocked it.


(*) What "civilians" may look like:

Oh bullshiat. You have no evidence whatsoever that the Mavi Marmara was a warship. You also have no evidence that those people were not civilians. Civilians are physically capable of wielding weapons.

I'm not even denying that at least some of the people on that ship were not intending it to be merely an aid mission. However, your argument is pure, organic horseshiat. If a group of American zealots hired an American-flagged, privately owned ship to take them to Venezuela to start some shiat, that doesn't make their action state action. You know this. You have to. You can't possibly be that stupid.

You don't do Israel any good when you protect it with specious arguments a 12-year-old can dismantle.

vudukungfu: I read that as "American Genocide" and wondered why a bunch of people over there cared about Native Americans, you know, Injuns.


Its not genocide when we do it.

And it's not ethnic cleansing when the Israelis do it.

spmkk: Philip Francis Queeg:
"So you are claiming that the vessel was in the direct hire of the Government of Turkey, as were the people on board?"


It doesn't really matter. If somebody comes to you and says they want to borrow your car (or perhaps more analogous in this case, to borrow your license plates to put on their car) to use as a getaway vehicle in a bank robbery, and you say "OK" because you don't like that bank, the cops would be completely right to come and arrest you - even if you weren't the one driving the getaway vehicle.

*sigh* That analogy, foolish as it is, only works if the Turkish government was informed that that ship was going to carry weapons and attempt to run an Israeli blockade to provoke an international incident, and Turkey said "OK." You have absolutely no proof of any of that.

A better analogy would be The United States considering it an act of war by Mexico when a bus bearing Mexican-issued plates and carrying marijuana and people intending to immigrate illegaly attempted to ram through a border crossing.

indylaw:

You don't do Israel any good when you protect it with specious arguments a 12-year-old can dismantle.

Speaking as a class-J7 ("falafel") hasbara propogator, I agree with these sentiments. You should consider speaking to your instructor and perhaps revisiting your training.

Lulz, check out icanhazbara's profile.

Location: Liberated Jerusalem

Liberated from whom?

indylaw: spmkk: indylaw:
"/because clearly if a friendly country condemns a legally murky military action against a civilian ship under its nation's flag, the only logical conclusion is that it's working with your enemies."


[inigo_montoya.jpg]


This "friendly" nation SENT the "civilian"(*) ship to provoke said military action, and is now crying that its fist hurts after it threw a punch and an ACTUAL friendly nation blocked it.


(*) What "civilians" may look like:

Oh bullshiat. You have no evidence whatsoever that the Mavi Marmara was a warship. You also have no evidence that those people were not civilians. Civilians are physically capable of wielding weapons.
.

They weren't civilians... they were peace activists on a humanitarian mission of BREAKING A MILITARY-IMPOSED BLOCKADE THAT THE ENTIRE WORLD KNEW ABOUT IN THE MIDST OF A WAR BETWEEN TWO SIDES THAT REALLY DO NOT WANT TO STOP FIGHTING. Noble cause right there.

indylaw:
"If a group of American zealots hired an American-flagged, privately owned ship to take them to Venezuela to start some shiat, that doesn't make their action state action."


You might have a point...if Turkey hadn't followed up with, "Bastard Israelis attacked our ship!"

In your example, the U.S. wouldn't proceed to "start some shiat" with Venezuela if this privately-owned ship got what was coming. In fact, in all likelihood U.S. authorities would intercept the ship before it could make the voyage - not cheer it on like Turkey did.

icanhazbara: indylaw:

You don't do Israel any good when you protect it with specious arguments a 12-year-old can dismantle.

Speaking as a class-J7 ("falafel") hasbara propogator, I agree with these sentiments. You should consider speaking to your instructor and perhaps revisiting your training.

spmkk: indylaw:
"If a group of American zealots hired an American-flagged, privately owned ship to take them to Venezuela to start some shiat, that doesn't make their action state action."


You might have a point...if Turkey hadn't followed up with, "Bastard Israelis attacked our ship!"

In your example, the U.S. wouldn't proceed to "start some shiat" with Venezuela if this privately-owned ship got what was coming. In fact, in all likelihood U.S. authorities would intercept the ship before it could make the voyage - not cheer it on like Turkey did.

I'm not sure they said "Bastard Israelis." The Israelis, while not bastards, did attack a Turkish vessel carrying Turkish civilians.

The Turkish government maintains that the people on that ship were not belligerents. Israel has produced evidence that the passengers attacked IDF personnel when they boarded, but no evidence that the ship its posed a threat to Israeli security.

The law, if it's ambiguous at all, still leans toward prohibiting an extraterritorial boarding by the Israelis. On that basis, I can understand why Turkey would be angry and demand an explanation. If this had been a situation where Israel boarded the ship in its own waters, or the ship had been proven to carry weapons or other contraband which compromised Israel's security, we'd have a different situation.

Turkey hasn't threatened war against Israel. It's pissed, and it has every right to be. I happen to side with the Israeli position in general on the appropriateness of boarding, and the right of IDF to use deadly force in self-defense. However, if you can't understand the opposing argument, that Israel took unauthorized action against a foreign ship in violation of international law, resulting in the deaths of civilians (naughty as they may be, you really have no business arguing.

It certainly does not follow that Turkey is in league with Israel's enemies. That's the thinking of paranoid delusions.

spmkk: indylaw:
"If a group of American zealots hired an American-flagged, privately owned ship to take them to Venezuela to start some shiat, that doesn't make their action state action."


You might have a point...if Turkey hadn't followed up with, "Bastard Israelis attacked our ship!"

In your example, the U.S. wouldn't proceed to "start some shiat" with Venezuela if this privately-owned ship got what was coming. In fact, in all likelihood U.S. authorities would intercept the ship before it could make the voyage - not cheer it on like Turkey did.

So one hypothetical violation of the law justifies an actual one.

You do realize that an American citizen was murdered on this boat, right?

Or does he not count because he's not Jewish?

On this issue, these Western pundits are concerned more about Turkey's move towards Iran, Syria, Hamas, and Hizbollah (new window) and away from the West than they are about supporting Israel. Not everything is only about Israel, people.

/Former American journalist now in Israel
//Disclosure: link goes to a blog article I wrote

Israel has no friends, just enemies that it hasn't bitten - yet.

Also murdered on the high seas, US citizen David Klinghoffer:



But that's OK, because there was an ongoing war between the Israelis and Palestinians, right?

bostonguy: On this issue, these Western pundits are concerned more about Turkey's move towards Iran, Syria, Hamas, and Hizbollah (new window) and away from the West than they are about supporting Israel. Not everything is only about Israel, people.

/Former American journalist now in Israel
//Disclosure: link goes to a blog article I wrote

I'm not sure Hamas and Syria would be concerns to the United States if the United States was not an ally and sponsor of Israel. We have our own independent bad blood with Iran and Hizbollah that has nothing to do with Israel.

indylaw:
"That analogy...only works if the Turkish government was informed that that ship was going to carry weapons and attempt to run an Israeli blockade to provoke an international incident, and Turkey said "OK." You have absolutely no proof of any of that."





Do you really believe that?

You seem like an intelligent fellow...do you really think that Turkey was unaware of who and what was on that ship, where it was going, and what for?