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(Detroit Free Press)   General Motors running ads admitting it made crappy vehicles in the 80s and 90s. More ads to follow in 10 to 20 years   (freep.com) divider line 169
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14064 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 May 2003 at 5:44 PM (11 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2003-05-29 09:52:52 AM
Yeah, Chevettes sucked...hard. I'm pretty happy with my '87 Silverado though.
 
2003-05-29 09:56:47 AM
Now, if only Ford would do this.
 
2003-05-29 10:06:18 AM
There's not enough ad space in the world for Ford to apologize for all of its lemons.
 
2003-05-29 10:19:16 AM
yeah, my '86 cavalier (also known as the caca-lier) was a d-o-g dog, but my current '97 buick is a pretty kosher car.
 
2003-05-29 11:58:33 AM
I'm buying Japanese, Im buying Japanese, I'm Buying Japanese... I really think so
 
2003-05-29 12:49:39 PM
I worked as a shop helper at a Buick dealership in '87. ALL our transmission guy did all day was rebuild 440 transmissions from front wheel drive V6 LeSabres and Park Avenues. He said they were no good for more than 40k miles before needing a rebuild. After seeing that and several other things while working there, I talked several family members out of GM products. It would take a lot to make me consider even an American car after subsequent experiences owning Ford and Chryslers. My wife has an 86 Volvo w/ over 200k miles, no problems. A 10yr/ 100k warranty was enough to convince me to buy a Hyundai.
 
OBB
2003-05-29 01:11:20 PM
*sigh* I liked back when GMs were built like tanks, and had engines that were over 400 cubic inches. No car ever sounded better than my dad's 1969 Z-28.
 
2003-05-29 04:34:46 PM
If it's not from Germany or Japan it ain't worth buying.
 
kab
2003-05-29 05:49:27 PM
"our old cars sucked... but trust us, these new ones are better!!!"

Although I do own one Chevy product, its only because I'd rather have that than a Ford or Dodge. Least of 3 evils and all.
 
2003-05-29 05:50:20 PM
I am surprised that General Motors is already back from the Iraq war.
 
2003-05-29 05:51:37 PM
Did Jayson Blair design cars for GM?
 
2003-05-29 05:52:10 PM
I HATED my chev Beretta. What a piece of shiate. Lets see...the passanger door fell off, the windshield wipers stopped working, the radio stopped working, the electronic dash kept burning out, the mass airflow converter burned out 3 times, the power pack died twice, the lobes came off the cam at 12k, the races fell out of the spindle at 20k, the reverse gear died at 17k and on and on....And I had to fight each and everytime with the dealership to get anything done.
So, I dumped it, (I wanted to crush it into a little cube but couldn't find a car crusher to do it) and bought Nissan and never had a problem since (love my XTerra Pathfinder)..
North American cars are a pile of shiate....
 
2003-05-29 05:52:54 PM
I wonder if Bush will do the same. Hey, we're sorry about no WMD, yeah, and that Economy thing, but hey, we're trying harder now.

No thanks.
 
2003-05-29 05:52:56 PM
Now if only they would run ads about the "black boxes" that they now include in their cars, that would be truth in advertising.
 
2003-05-29 05:53:03 PM
My 2009 tornado is great, i just piss is the tank every 100 miles and the ride is comfye.
 
2003-05-29 05:54:33 PM
The General Motors Factory got totally annihilated in the Oklahoma city tornado early may. tons of cars were sitting in the parking lot of GM, fresh off the line, and got destroyed
 
2003-05-29 05:54:40 PM
GM doesn't stand for Gantz Meshuggah?

Go know!
 
2003-05-29 05:55:11 PM
Then they wonder why the Japanese car makers are killing them. By definition, American cars are crap and unreliable. That's why I've been a lifetime Honda owner.

These same clueless morons told American consumers back in the 70's that if they didn't like what they gave them, go elsewhere. Sure enough, they did. 30 years later, they still haven't learned their lessons. Serves them right.
 
2003-05-29 05:56:50 PM
 
2003-05-29 05:56:51 PM
05-29-03 05:52:56 PM TommyymmoT
"black boxes"


dude? u been smoking rock and reading Orwell?
or am i just a little slow on the scoop
 
2003-05-29 05:57:45 PM
These days its nearly impossible to separate 'japanese' and 'american' vehicles. The pontiac vibe is built side by side to the toyota matrix. Both are based on the corolla platform. And the factory for all 3 is in california.
Honda is supplying the engines for another american maker's vehicles...i believe it might be 4 cylinder fords, starting in a couple of years. Could be GM though.
Oh, and lets not forget chrysler is now owned by mercedes and they share parts between each other's models frequently.
 
2003-05-29 05:58:54 PM
They should go back to making them old school, like this six-fo Impala goodness:
 
2003-05-29 06:00:06 PM
Felon: No, he's right. Several million vehicles for the past 10 years (firebird/camaro comes to mind..theres others) have 'black boxes' in them that record vehicle speed and other data.
They're usually built into the airbag modules, and they freeze their data at time of airbag release. Its increasingly common for them to be used in court cases, when theres a dispute over how fast a vehicle was going before it crashed. Black box don't lie.
 
2003-05-29 06:01:41 PM
05-29-03 01:11:20 PM OBB

*sigh* I liked back when GMs were built like tanks, and had engines that were over 400 cubic inches. No car ever sounded better than my dad's 1969 Z-28.


The 1969 Camaro z28 had a 302 in it, but it was also offered with a 327 block.

The SS (not z28) had a big block, but that was the 396 and not over 400 cubic inches.
 
2003-05-29 06:04:07 PM
My 87 Camaro came with a free subscription to the "problem of the month" club. I swear it spent more time in the dealership undergoing warranty work than it did on the road.
 
2003-05-29 06:04:37 PM
(takes deep breath to brace for the onslaught...)

The Pontiac Aztek has been a great car. We've put over 50,000 miles on it, and only changed brakes, oil, and tires. The first major repair was just recently. Had to replace the AC condenser. Engine is still happy, transmission is in good shape, the CV joints are OK, every other major system is chooglin along fine.

My 1985 Chevy Suburban was burning almost as much oil as gas, but it still started everyday at 173,000 miles. I sold it for $200 less than I paid for it. The paint was shot, and it rattled like a D&D player, but it ran. A lot.

The 93 Chevy Beretta was a pretty good car too. It's sitting in my Mother In Law's back yard, waiting until we finish paying a loan off so we can sell the bad boy. 186,000 miles, and the main bearing went. Car still starts and runs, but I ain't putting it on the road. A definite fixer-upper. The seats are falling apart, but what else is new.

But I do like the Aztek. Discuss.
 
2003-05-29 06:05:03 PM
05-29-03 05:52:56 PM TommyymmoT

Now if only they would run ads about the "black boxes" that they now include in their cars, that would be truth in advertising.


You mean the ODBII system? ALL cars since 96 have had this, not just GM.

05-29-03 06:00:06 PM TheDirtyNacho

Felon: No, he's right. Several million vehicles for the past 10 years (firebird/camaro comes to mind..theres others) have 'black boxes' in them that record vehicle speed and other data.
They're usually built into the airbag modules, and they freeze their data at time of airbag release. Its increasingly common for them to be used in court cases, when theres a dispute over how fast a vehicle was going before it crashed. Black box don't lie.


Wrong, wrong, wrong. The ODBII computer is always recording data. But take off that tin foil hat.. it's doing it so that it can compensate the fuel/air mixture on a fuel injected car. Nobody is watching you, and there is no tiny amazing X10 camera in your airbag. There is only a sensor that tells the ODBII that the airbag has been deployed.
 
2003-05-29 06:08:50 PM
05-29-03 05:56:51 PM KoNVicTeD_FeLOn

05-29-03 05:52:56 PM TommyymmoT
"black boxes"


dude? u been smoking rock and reading Orwell?
or am i just a little slow on the scoop


No, you're just slow on the "scoop". It's not really news anymore. They are supposedly used to record crash data, in order to "build safer cars". So far, they've only been used in court, and to date, never in the drivers favor. In the future, look foward to insurance companies not honoring claims if the driver was speeding, and other delights.
 
2003-05-29 06:10:30 PM
GM is trying to polish an image tarnished by low-quality cars such as the Chevrolet Chevette and Citation

Funny, I read that as Corvette and it still made sense...

Those mid 80s Vettes were definitely shiattily-made cars.
 
2003-05-29 06:10:44 PM
toyota. 12 of 'em in the family over the last dozen or so years. EVERY ONE made it over 200k with the only problems being the clutch in Mom's car - 'course she rides a clutch like the Lone Ranger rides Silver.
 
2003-05-29 06:10:58 PM
Tourney3p0, The ODB II is a seperate aminal from the black boxes in question.
 
2003-05-29 06:11:48 PM
So, umm, what are the "good" cars they're building now? Haven't had an american car since my oil-leaking, clunky shifting, overheating '81 Citation.

Xj14 - you bought an Aztek? ouch.
 
2003-05-29 06:12:31 PM
05-29-03 06:10:30 PM Malinois

Those mid 80s Vettes were definitely shiattily-made cars.


The only bad Corvettes in the 80's were the 82 and 84. There was no 83 Corvette because the 82 sucked so much.
 
2003-05-29 06:13:44 PM
05-29-03 04:34:46 PM Ignom

If it's not from Germany or Japan it ain't worth buying.


AMEN!! Preach it Brotha!
 
2003-05-29 06:14:04 PM
Enlightened_0ne:

Care to provide an example of a black box being different than the main computer? I've removed many steering columns and disassembled many cars in general in the last 5 years, and never once have I found anything that was identifiable as "the black box".
 
2003-05-29 06:16:44 PM
05-29-03 06:14:04 PM Tourney3p0

Enlightened_0ne:

Care to provide an example of a black box being different than the main computer? I've removed many steering columns and disassembled many cars in general in the last 5 years, and never once have I found anything that was identifiable as "the black box".


http://www.thelouisvillechannel.com/target32/1985872/detail.html

They record data 5 seconds at a time.
 
2003-05-29 06:18:04 PM
The ODBII isn't watching you. The OBDII, on the other hand could potentially be used along the lines of what has been placed out there.

The OBDIII is a different story...
 
2003-05-29 06:18:53 PM
Enlightened_0ne:

Care to provide an example of a black box being different than the main computer?

or:
http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/19/22/02.html

clear picture, shows that it is NOT the main computer.
 
2003-05-29 06:20:20 PM
Ah, that explains why I haven't found it in the steering column removals.. it's under the radio.
 
2003-05-29 06:22:02 PM
Ah, that explains why I haven't found it in the steering column removals.. it's under the radio.
Its in different places in different cars. In my Jetta its near the steering column, but I still have not found it in my BMW 325i
 
2003-05-29 06:24:44 PM
Planned obsolescence was greed for greeds own sake. The big 3, not just GM, had studies that showed Americans bought a new car, on average, every two years. The greedy old men in the boardrooms decided to design cars that would only last 2 years, so that the trend they had identified would have to continue. Their crappy cars would not even last one year in many cases, so consumers started buying Japanese cars. This led to the collapse of Chrysler, and a government(all of us taxpayers) bailout. GM and Ford barely survived. Guess what? They are still doing it. Planned obsolescence is not dead. Caveat Emptor.
 
2003-05-29 06:26:04 PM
Its also frequently under a seat.
 
2003-05-29 06:26:55 PM
Tourney3p0- the "Black box" is a term applied by the media comparing cars with the data recorders in airplanes. What is actually the case is that the Airbag's Diagnostic Energy Reserve Module (aka DERM) does, in fact, continuously read data not only from the collision force sensors, but also reads vehicle speed, when the brakes are applied, temperature conditions, etc. It also stores the last 10 seconds or so of this data following a crash in which the airbags fired. These have been in cars ever since airbags have. The intent was to find ways to make cars safer by looking at real- world data. They don't lie. They are totally objective, and have, in fact, been used to prove a driver's innocence in a number of cases. They aren't mandated by the government, and while vehicle makers don't explicitly say the last 10 seconds of this data are stored, anyone with half a brain knows that modern cars have a computer in them.
This system is also completely separate from the Powertrain Control Module, which controls engine and transmission systems, and many cars made before 1996 (before the OBD-II standards went into effect) have had airbag modules that store this data.
 
2003-05-29 06:30:29 PM
The LeMans was the worst named car in the world... That car was slower than an inbred child from Kentucky!


I had a pontiac LeMans- I used to call it the "Le-Mon"...

If you drove the car and turned the engine off- you couldn't start it for another 15 minutes!
 
2003-05-29 06:31:40 PM
I very seriously doubt I'd buy any American car other than a Ford or Dodge truck, but I'd much rather have a Tundra or that new Nissan full size that's coming out this (next?) year. I've had a Toyota, Infiniti, and now a Honda. All have been trouble free, except for the problems that I myself caused (that Infiniti just begged me to peg the redline everytime..and that's just not good for an engine, but it had about 250k on it before she quit).
 
2003-05-29 06:33:39 PM
My family has a 1998 Malibu [Chevrolet/GM]and it has been a very steady car. Mostly, the only thing that has been done to it is schedule tune ups, and a little lube for the AC. It's done a lot of miles and still handles well. If I ever get a car, it will most likely be a Malibu, a Cooper, or a Miata.
 
2003-05-29 06:36:35 PM
Greek Well put, and well said. However, being most drivers don't have the money to have the data interpreted, the data is seldom used to prove innocence. Especially in criminal cases, where the car is usually confiscated or impounded until the case is resolved. The defendant never gets access to the data, no matter how impartial it's contents are.
 
2003-05-29 06:37:20 PM
Withlovesarareku: If reliability is a concern then you can narrowed your selection down to the Miata (could you have selected any more different cars than these three?).
 
2003-05-29 06:37:24 PM
OK, after rereading the chiropractor's story and looking at some other things,

IEEEE
NHTSA
Mechanical Forensics Engineering Services, LLC(has a bunch of other links)

I'm convinced. I'm more concerned by the OBDIII (3) system. That can be read remotely.

That's it. I'm buying a 1973 GMC pickup, and replacing the engine every 100,000 miles.
 
2003-05-29 06:39:09 PM
I had an 86 Chevette, it blew up. Twice. Had a Chrysler LeBaron, wow, I put that car through hell and my mom still has it. My husband pitched a biatch because I bought a VW last month rather than a Chevy. Best move I ever made.
 
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