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(Daily Mail)   We should all pity the middle-aged British sex tourist who's the real victim of Thailand's sex industry. "I'm exhausted. I'll need a holiday when I get back"   (dailymail.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Asinine, Thailand, sex industry, Wolverhampton, British, PVC, sex tourism, Thai, Bangkok  
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22547 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jun 2010 at 9:51 PM (6 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



226 Comments     (+0 »)
 


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2010-06-16 11:52:02 PM  

Steve132: Lets take the entire conversation here and substitute prostitution with "Shoveling Poop and Picking Fruit," a completely legal and demeaning, profession (farm labor)

Knucklepopper: Drannon: Knucklepopper: Drannon: Strawman much? I love how someone said 'Shoveling Poop and Picking fruit should be legal' and people are talking about child labor. No one was saying that child labor should be legal - or slavery, or human trafficking.

"Shoveling Poop and Picking Fruit in countries like Mexico is typically a consequence of destitution. You can tell yourself he's elbow deep in your nasty shiat for a $20 because he has free will to do so but you'd be lying.

Again, that's missing the point. Obviously most people don't become farm workers because of a childhood dream to shovel poop and pick fruit. It is undoubtedly, in country like Mexico, and in developed countries, linked to poverty. That is still different from being coerced into doing it vs. doing it out of your free will. If you're poor you can work as a janitor because you think that's the way to get by, or someone can threaten you with violence if you don't work as a janitor. There is a massive difference between the two.

The question is do you go all Nevada and legalize and regulate it (not a single case of HIV in decades in the ranches), or do you go like Amsterdamn where it is legal but mostly unregulated, or do you go like Thailand where it's illegal and unregulated?

The idea of being able to successfully regulate farm labor is simply a fantasy. In spite of the regulation in Nevada, Clark County remains one of the most prevalent cities in the country for child labor. I believe Clark ranks in at 14th in the nation.


Maybe I'm being obtuse here, but whats the difference? Both are demeaning jobs that supply a massive demand to satisfy a human need. Both are jobs that no one wants to do, that we want to prevent children from doing, and want to prevent people from becoming slaves to do. Both increase the chance of death by workplace hazards (robbery, rape vs. machinery accidents) and have associated illnesses. Both are done because of poverty, and both have a small minority of people who do it because they enjoy it. Both involve ethnic disparities and people who claim that the workers are being exploited vs. people who claim the workers are being given an opportunity.

The only real difference between them that I can see is that major religious systems frown on one and glorify the other. Since religious systems of morality are not an adequate basis for a system of government, pending any other societal negative consequences that apply to prostitution but NOT to any other legitimate "unpleasant" means of making a living, I would have to argue that if farming can be made legal, regulable, and safe-ish, than so should prostitution.


This was about the stupidest pile of gibberish I've ever had the misfortune to scan. Go jerk off and save a hooker, bro. The world will be a better place.
 
2010-06-16 11:57:34 PM  

mamoru: Wangiss: soretomo o-namae ga mamoru to osshaimasu ka

俺の名前は日本語に訳したら「人を守る」という意味なので「守」にしました。「守」って名前は日本にもおかしくない。本名はアレックスです。
(ore no namae wa nihongo ni yakushiatara, "hito wo mamoru" to iu imi nanode, "mamoru" ni shimashiata. "Mamoru" tte namae wa nihon ni mo okashikunai. hon-mei wa "Alex" desu.)

Why are we speaking Japanese in a thread about Thailand on a site that is mostly frequented by Americans? :p


So the Brits won't understand.
 
2010-06-16 11:58:01 PM  
FTFA: The man pays 300 baht - £6 - to the bar owner to have a drink with a girl and she earns about 60p for every drink he buys her.

The real story here is that people are getting paid to drink.
 
2010-06-16 11:59:00 PM  

howdoibegin: Rofl, tell me how em is relevant. This outta be good.


The premise of the article is to associate a horrendous crime with the subject of moral panic. Since that's the subject of the track in question, I fail to see how you could possibly be confused.

Palmer Eldritch: I hit play on that song, scrolled down... and read this post. GET OUT OF MY HEAD CHARLES


I'm not in your head. I'm in your crawl space. WEP? Really?
 
2010-06-17 12:00:43 AM  
32? Dude, you're doing it wrong.
 
2010-06-17 12:01:01 AM  

Steve132: Lets take the entire conversation here and substitute prostitution with "Shoveling Poop and Picking Fruit," a completely legal and demeaning, profession (farm labor)

Knucklepopper: Drannon: Knucklepopper: Drannon: Strawman much? I love how someone said 'Shoveling Poop and Picking fruit should be legal' and people are talking about child labor. No one was saying that child labor should be legal - or slavery, or human trafficking.

"Shoveling Poop and Picking Fruit in countries like Mexico is typically a consequence of destitution. You can tell yourself he's elbow deep in your nasty shiat for a $20 because he has free will to do so but you'd be lying.

Again, that's missing the point. Obviously most people don't become farm workers because of a childhood dream to shovel poop and pick fruit. It is undoubtedly, in country like Mexico, and in developed countries, linked to poverty. That is still different from being coerced into doing it vs. doing it out of your free will. If you're poor you can work as a janitor because you think that's the way to get by, or someone can threaten you with violence if you don't work as a janitor. There is a massive difference between the two.

The question is do you go all Nevada and legalize and regulate it (not a single case of HIV in decades in the ranches), or do you go like Amsterdamn where it is legal but mostly unregulated, or do you go like Thailand where it's illegal and unregulated?

The idea of being able to successfully regulate farm labor is simply a fantasy. In spite of the regulation in Nevada, Clark County remains one of the most prevalent cities in the country for child labor. I believe Clark ranks in at 14th in the nation.


Maybe I'm being obtuse here, but whats the difference? Both are demeaning jobs that supply a massive demand to satisfy a human need. Both are jobs that no one wants to do, that we want to prevent children from doing, and want to prevent people from becoming slaves to do. Both increase the chance of death by workplace hazards (robbery, rape vs. machinery accidents) and have associated illnesses. Both are done because of poverty, and both have a small minority of people who do it because they enjoy it. Both involve ethnic disparities and people who claim that the workers are being exploited vs. people who claim the workers are being given an opportunity.

The only real difference between them that I can see is that major religious systems frown on one and glorify the other. Since religious systems of morality are not an adequate basis for a system of government, pending any other societal negative consequences that apply to prostitution but NOT to any other legitimate "unpleasant" means of making a living, I would have to argue that if farming can be made legal, regulable, and safe-ish, than so should prostitution.


Your analogy started to break down in the HIV and Human Trafficking paragraphs.
 
2010-06-17 12:06:47 AM  

southernbelladonna: St_Francis_P: If adult women choose to sell their bodies, I'm not sure why I should be concerned.

I agree with this.

However, the sex trade textile industry(especially in very poor parts of the world) is full of women who are little more than indentured servants and in some cases outright slaves. That makes thiswearing clothes a very questionable vacation pastime.


I don't disagree with the original comment, but we're kidding ourselves if we think exploitation of people in poor countries is limited to the sex trade.
 
2010-06-17 12:10:42 AM  
USS Carl Vinson, 98-03. Soapy was fun and clean. Attempted a threesome, accidently picked two girls who didn't speak the same language as one another. Ackward. Couple of guys brought girls back to the resort, had to get on the liberty boat and pretend to go back on the ship to get rid of them. Saw a girl shoot vagina darts at balloons in the audience and a midget boxer beat the crap out of several marines.

Also, three dudes off the ship OD'd on h. Good times.
 
2010-06-17 12:15:05 AM  

zephypyre: USS Carl Vinson, 98-03. Soapy was fun and clean. Attempted a threesome, accidently picked two girls who didn't speak the same language as one another. Ackward. Couple of guys brought girls back to the resort, had to get on the liberty boat and pretend to go back on the ship to get rid of them. Saw a girl shoot vagina darts at balloons in the audience and a midget boxer beat the crap out of several marines.

Also, three dudes off the ship OD'd on h. Good times.


I only got to hit Singapore in '04. But yes, I know these times you speak of.
 
2010-06-17 12:16:06 AM  
Anyone see the BBC documentary series "My Boyfriend is a Sex Tourist"? One of the episodes deals with a bar girl in Thailand.
That's an eye opener.

/and a bottle opener
//and a wallet opener
///and a leg opener
 
2010-06-17 12:20:19 AM  
FarkinNortherner
I'm in your crawl space. WEP? Really?

I don't understand what any of that means. Your world frightens and confuses me.
 
2010-06-17 12:22:15 AM  
I'm a program producer with the NPR in Vegas - I've done many stories on prostitution and human trafficking.

There are few "nice" brothels with farkable girls - (on of them tried employing a male prostitute - but he made no money and went back to the valley to ddo porn) but most brothels are little more than trailers pushed together staffed by skanks.

the law is no prostitution in counties with more than (i think) 250,000 people which means its only illegal in Clark (vegas) and Washoe (reno) counties.

the problem is the street hookers - often forced into it when brought from asia, russia or latin america. and there are minors - lots. and the massage parlors are often staffed by "slaves" - the parlors are drifting into suburban residential vegas.

the ones that come to hotel rooms - its a risk - they may roll you - and it is illegal and LVMPD runs frequent stings on the strip.
 
2010-06-17 12:29:40 AM  

Wangiss: We rank #1 for human trafficking in the US. One of my friends knows a slave owner--sees him at a mutual friend's birthday party ever year; throws up in her mouth a little. It's a problem.


Why doesn't she report him to the police?
 
2010-06-17 12:29:59 AM  

dadio86: I'm a program producer with the NPR in Vegas - I've done many stories on prostitution and human trafficking.

There are few "nice" brothels with farkable girls - (on of them tried employing a male prostitute - but he made no money and went back to the valley to ddo porn) but most brothels are little more than trailers pushed together staffed by skanks.

the law is no prostitution in counties with more than (i think) 250,000 people which means its only illegal in Clark (vegas) and Washoe (reno) counties.

the problem is the street hookers - often forced into it when brought from asia, russia or latin america. and there are minors - lots. and the massage parlors are often staffed by "slaves" - the parlors are drifting into suburban residential vegas.

the ones that come to hotel rooms - its a risk - they may roll you - and it is illegal and LVMPD runs frequent stings on the strip.


I was just up there for the IRE conference this past weekend. Jesus God, what a shiathole city; great conference though.
 
2010-06-17 12:30:51 AM  

MeinRS6: I guess you can make this all about control over one's body if you choose to keep your eyes closed tight, but there is a very dark side to the sex trade in every country. Thailand is no exception.

I've been to Pattaya many times on the way to much better places down the penn or in the Gulf of Thailand. It's also full of gay sex tourists. It's got to be one of the "best" international mixing pots of STDs on the planet. If you hate someone, tell them to go to Pattaya and start banging whores.


Dude, Stay away from Soi 6 and 7, and boystown in jomtiem and you won't have to worry about looking at it.

"Hello sexy man, welcome. Where you from? How long you stay? Will you be my darg ling? Joop Joop teerak"

/i pood thai dai nitnoi.
 
2010-06-17 12:36:15 AM  
How did this turn into a Henderson thread?

I've met a few girls from the combo Thai noodles/massage parlor less than 30 sec from my home, I'm fairly sure they are not here willingly, but these places are everywhere, they just get shuffled around from place to place.
 
2010-06-17 12:36:22 AM  
Fark is losing its deep intellectually challenging and moral questioning character with each passing week ...
So predictable.
It is either " I feel sorry for child prostitutes,so I always give them a few extra bucks" OR " If I get my hands on one of these pervs I will slice his bag open,pluck out his plums and shove them up his nose till cums out his ears".
No real challenging middle ground discussion or persuasive argument.
Well, unless we are talking about art. Then the educated get to smirk and show off their elitist blue ribbons. Thomas Kinkade vs. Picasso thread ? ON FARK? REALLY?
For three dollars in quarters I would stop coming here.
 
2010-06-17 12:54:44 AM  

vistar: MeinRS6: I guess you can make this all about control over one's body if you choose to keep your eyes closed tight, but there is a very dark side to the sex trade in every country. Thailand is no exception.

I've been to Pattaya many times on the way to much better places down the penn or in the Gulf of Thailand. It's also full of gay sex tourists. It's got to be one of the "best" international mixing pots of STDs on the planet. If you hate someone, tell them to go to Pattaya and start banging whores.

Dude, Stay away from Soi 6 and 7, and boystown in jomtiem and you won't have to worry about looking at it.

"Hello sexy man, welcome. Where you from? How long you stay? Will you be my darg ling? Joop Joop teerak"

/i pood thai dai nitnoi.


Yet maa dee gwa yet galee haha
 
2010-06-17 12:56:04 AM  

astrochelonian: Wangiss: We rank #1 for human trafficking in the US. One of my friends knows a slave owner--sees him at a mutual friend's birthday party ever year; throws up in her mouth a little. It's a problem.

Why doesn't she report him to the police?


If your slave says it's voluntary and they live with you because they want to--"I'm not a slave; we're practically brothers!"--there's no way to prosecute. That is, unless you get a warrant. And evidence. And the DA. And confessions. Sounds like a lot of work, huh. Then you're looking at a trial and relocation and everything. Phew, I get tired just typing about it.

Knucklepopper
Yeah, we have great conference infrastructure.

swangoatman
For three dollars in quarters I would stop coming here.

That's what she said.

&ur nym=swan-goat-man.

DarkTrance
Wha can get pad thai and thai bod!? WHAR!
 
2010-06-17 12:56:30 AM  
Would you expect any less from a country whose capital is bangkok?
 
2010-06-17 12:58:20 AM  

mamoru: I'd say too bad about missing out on Bangkok, but really you don't miss out on much by not coming to or staying in Bangkok. It's just another city.



Have you tried various durian and other tropical fruit?
 
2010-06-17 12:58:43 AM  
If you want to do something about it.

http://love146.org/

End child sex slavery and exploitation.
 
2010-06-17 01:00:50 AM  
Also, rigorous enforcement of condom usage of condoms in Pattaya. To this day, completely STD free. Is it weird that you have a better chance of getting something from a college girl than from screwing counterclockwise around the pacific?
 
2010-06-17 01:01:27 AM  
Photos!!!! guys photos or sleazily links
 
2010-06-17 01:04:02 AM  

zephypyre: Also, rigorous enforcement of condom usage of condoms in Pattaya. To this day, completely STD free. Is it weird that you have a better chance of getting something from a college girl than from screwing counterclockwise around the pacific?


B Farking S

Ignoramus.
 
2010-06-17 01:04:38 AM  

Unique23b: For ex pats going to Thailand, reading the book, "Private Dancer" should be required.

Although the paper back is easier reading, here is a freebie pdf version: http://www.stephenleather.com/private-dancer.pdf



I also recommend Welcome to Hell. Read that one on the flight from Tokyo to Bangkok...
 
2010-06-17 01:04:52 AM  

Stonerbloopers: Would you expect any less from a country whose capital is bangkok?


Actually the capital is:
Krung Thep Mahanakhon Amon Rattanakosin Mahinthara Yuthaya Mahadilok Phop Noppharat Ratchathani Burirom Udomratchaniwet Mahasathan Amon Phiman Awatan Sathit Sakkathattiya Witsanukam Prasit

Thai's call it Krung Thep for short. I've never heard a Thai call it Bangkok unless talking to a non-Thai.
 
2010-06-17 01:10:04 AM  
WeenerGord: Have you tried various durian and other tropical fruit?

I don't like durian, but I'm all about dragon-fruit and rose-apples. Mangosteen and such are quite nice as well.
 
2010-06-17 01:10:57 AM  

IsNoGood: Photos!!!! guys photos or sleazily links


What in the fark are you trying to say?
 
2010-06-17 01:19:50 AM  
Condom usage of condoms? I'm awesome.

Not bs, at least in my humble (two venues) experience. Both appearantly well established, reputable joints with their own rooms.
 
2010-06-17 01:26:12 AM  
zephypyre: Not bs, at least in my humble (two venues) experience. Both appearantly well established, reputable joints with their own rooms.

Ah yes. Two established brothels definitely speaks more for the condom or not policy than the swarms of prostitutes hanging out on the boardwalk. I'm sure a controlled environment such as the two establishments you visited are perfectly and accurately representative of the state of the sex industry in Pattaya, and all news sources and polls that report otherwise must be wrong.

Anecdote is not the singular of data.
 
2010-06-17 01:27:32 AM  
Wow, they told you they didn't have any STDs because they use condoms, huh? Every time, no matter how much someone pays extra because it's "enforced" even though no one else is in the room?

No, three courses of antibiotics is $4 in Thailand. A little spiff of $400 or $4000 from a couldn't-care-less, wants-some-Thai-pussy-skin American Senator type means... Congratulations! You have Genital Warts! And other things. And condoms aren't 100% effective in the first place and they don't protect from everything anyway.

Are you really this stupid?
 
2010-06-17 01:32:26 AM  

swangoatman: For three dollars in quarters I would stop coming here.


Well, bye.
 
2010-06-17 01:32:57 AM  
Anyone who goes on one of these sex vacations and is stupid enough to believe that a woman will be faithful to him if he only sends her some money every month deserves to be taken to the cleaners by the woman! All the more power to her.
 
2010-06-17 01:38:15 AM  

IsNoGood: Photos!!!! guys photos or sleazily links


un2kmu.files.wordpress.com
www.bangkokpicture.com
2.bp.blogspot.com
www.pattaya-discover.com
www.pattaya-discover.com
1.bp.blogspot.com
siamtradingpost.com

images.icanhascheezburger.com
 
2010-06-17 01:58:59 AM  
There is an outstanding book Bangkok 8 by John Burdett - crime novel set among brothels of Bangkok. Great story by itself, but also pretty good insight into how the city works, including the mentality of the whores and the ladyboys - sympathetic, amusing
 
2010-06-17 02:05:09 AM  
As long as we're recommending books

"Hello My Big Big Honey!" Love Letters to Bangkok Bar Girls and Their Revealing Interviews

Also, don't rent any jet-skis in Thailand.
 
2010-06-17 02:11:23 AM  

Wangiss: KingPsyz: Wangiss: KingPsyz:
BS.
/from Henderson, just south of basically Vegas.


//me too

Like the young genius accademy/zappos area or the other side of 215?

(live like 5 from there...)

Back on topic slightly, it would probablly improve the siutation here in Vegas/Henderson if they stopped lying to themselves and just legalised it proper like so they could at least reign some of it in...

Would imagine a lot of girls would rather work for someone who has to abide by codes and still make money than not.

IDK about regulation vs. non-regulation since Nye County's regulation hasn't improved the situation as much there as my libertarian sensibilities would hope.

But it's funny you should mention the Zappos lot and the across-the-215 lot. I work for yellowpages.com, which used to be zappos' neighbor and is now in the lego-looking, across-the-215 compound. I live by Windmill & Pecos. You out that way or in more of the Boulder direction?


warm springs & arroyo grande

/small world
 
2010-06-17 02:12:03 AM  
blackartemis:

I am actually moving to Thailand shortly to do the whole TEFL/TESOL thing...random sick-of-things-here adventure. I would love to ask you a couple questions if you don't mind terribly. If you are game for a quick e-mail exchange, EIP.
 
2010-06-17 02:12:28 AM  

southernbelladonna: However, the sex trade (especially in very poor parts of the world) is full of women who are little more than indentured servants and in some cases outright slaves. That makes this a very questionable vacation pastime.


Such abuses of people have occurred for centuries in many different lines of work. If each line of work were banned because someone somewhere abused/enslaved people into that line of work we'd have to ban the manufacture of shoes, clothing, practically all food that is grown, etc and so on. It's only prostitution that gets banned citing that as the reason. However its illegal status only encourages more abuses.

Knucklepopper: Prostitution in countries like Thailand is typically a consequence of destitution.


Which is often the result of government and a lack of the protection of rights or the outright violation of them.
 
2010-06-17 02:16:44 AM  

leadmetal: Which is often the result of government and a lack of the protection of rights or the outright violation of them.



And as usual, it's easier to steal from foreigners than to work to reform the government of their own country.
 
2010-06-17 02:17:41 AM  

CrimsonCannonball: blackartemis:

I am actually moving to Thailand shortly to do the whole TEFL/TESOL thing...random sick-of-things-here adventure. I would love to ask you a couple questions if you don't mind terribly. If you are game for a quick e-mail exchange, EIP.


Feel free to PM me, anything to distract me from Organic Chemistry and stereoisomers is welcome. :(
 
2010-06-17 02:24:48 AM  

blackartemis: Feel free to PM me, anything to distract me from Organic Chemistry and stereoisomers is welcome. :(


I certainly would...though I see no way to do so. :S
 
2010-06-17 02:28:30 AM  
For some truly interesting insight there are two books written by westerners who lived in the Bgirl culture; "Patpong Sisters" and "Hello, My big, big honey." The second was written by someone who would translate correspondence into English for the Bgirls. You find these books everywhere there are tourists in Thailand.
 
2010-06-17 02:31:24 AM  
The average visitor appears to be male, 40 or more, probably losing his hair, frequently fat, very likely British and there for one reason only - to buy sex with young Thai women.

Is this supposed to turn us against the johns or something? Because I see no problem with any of it. Hell it sounds like the place to party.

/not British
 
2010-06-17 02:32:42 AM  
Oooh, just saw this part.

By Deborah Davies

That explains it.

Hey honey, if he could get laid back home he wouldn't fly halfway across the farking world. Quit acting so horrified that men want sex.
 
2010-06-17 02:36:53 AM  

Red Mundus: I'll never understand how fat sex-starved pervs can pay a woman for sex and then act like they're a regular sex machine. How delusional do you have to be? She's not with you because of your manly stud-ness, it's the money she wants you clueless retards.



Here's the trick: Who cares why. They aren't there to listen to her talk about shoes.
 
2010-06-17 02:38:50 AM  

Shocktopus: Here's the trick: Who cares why. They aren't there to listen to her talk about shoes.


You feel quite strongly about this topic, don't you?
 
2010-06-17 02:46:36 AM  

southernbelladonna: However, the sex trade (especially in very poor parts of the world) is full of women who are little more than indentured servants and in some cases outright slaves.


Which would be just as bad if they were sewing shoes instead of selling sex. And such things *do* happen in other industries. I might be willing to accept that it's more prevalent in the sex industry (though I honestly don't know one way or the other), and that one should therefore take extra precautions, but I don't see how it's fundamentally different than buying anything else that could have been manufactured under questionable conditions.
 
2010-06-17 02:47:06 AM  

CrimsonCannonball: blackartemis: Feel free to PM me, anything to distract me from Organic Chemistry and stereoisomers is welcome. :(

I certainly would...though I see no way to do so. :S


email sent to your blog account.
 
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