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(Cleveland Plain Dealer)   The good news: DNA test appears to clear the name of a man who spent time on Texas' death row. The bad news: He was executed ten years ago   (cleveland.com) divider line 303
    More: Scary, DNA tests, death row, Innocence Project, DNA, Texans, Texas, stay of execution  
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15543 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jun 2010 at 6:52 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-06-15 08:35:45 PM
This is a perfect example of why the death penalty should be thrown into the trash except when the crime is especially heinous and there is overwhelming evidence (and I do mean, overwhelming).

DNA tests should be mandated by law, and not optional.

This in turn leads me to another opinion. I believe our entire Justice system, while good in theory, needs to be re-worked. That's a whole can of worms for a different day, though.

What kind of compensation will the son get, I wonder? They took his father from him & basically ruined his life. For what?
 
2010-06-15 08:35:46 PM
Daffydil: *sigh*

Correct! In the second step of lethal injection that's the sound that is made during paralysis of the diaphragm and collapse of the lungs. Good jorb!
 
2010-06-15 08:36:37 PM
DSan: DNA tests should be mandated by law, and not optional.

Derp?
 
2010-06-15 08:36:57 PM
Heffaloo: hartzdog: You know who else were wrongly convicted for a crime they didn't commit...

The A-team?


Wrong. This is clearly a reference to the Count of Monte Cristo.
 
2010-06-15 08:37:37 PM
malaktaus: Heffaloo: hartzdog: You know who else were wrongly convicted for a crime they didn't commit...

The A-team?

Wrong. This is clearly a reference to the Count of Monte Cristo.


Worst. Sandwich. EVER.
 
2010-06-15 08:38:31 PM
Kar98: If it would have been a case of "SWAT team enter wrong home, kill utterly innocent people in their sleep", yeah, I would have been there with the OMGWTFBBQ.

There is that:

Detroit Girl, 7, Killed in SWAT Raid
 
2010-06-15 08:40:45 PM
DSan:

What kind of compensation will the son get, I wonder? They took his father from him & basically ruined his life. For what?


I would submit that the father ruined anything that was ruined a long time before the state got involved by being a piece of shiat murdering criminal.
 
2010-06-15 08:40:45 PM
Salt Lick Steady: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: AnotherDisillusionedCollegeStudent: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: This reasoning shows a preference for vengeance over justice. It shows contempt for the US constitution, common law and the new testament.

What's the difference, really?

Justice is about maintaining the rule of law in a society, regardless of the person. Vengeance is about punishing someone specific for wrongdoing.

So... as long as someone is punished, and not someone specific, justice is served?

I guess justice was served in this case then.

Let me put it this way, as you seem to be delicate of intellect. It's the difference between a law and a bill of attainder.


Well now you're just making things up.
 
2010-06-15 08:45:38 PM
Just scrolled down to the end of the thread, skipping everything. I am wondering: Is there an ancient common law custom that mandates compensation to the families of the wrongfully executed?
 
2010-06-15 08:47:00 PM
ShamWowofDamocles: No part of me is surprised that Texas leads the nation with DNA exonerations

I would also like to note that due to some odd circumstances, Dallas ended up storing their DNA evidence for a lot longer than normally happened, and they are going back and testing it again. I applaud them for doing this. Their new prosecutor is much better than the old one.

While I do not want to defend Texas in any way, it's not just that their death row process sucks dick, and their PDs are incompetent, and Bush and Perry are both heartless biatches, but there are other reasons. Also, their lead prosecutor was a dick.

I support the death penalty but still want it abolished because I think the risk is too great. The number of people the innocence project has gotten out of jail because of jury bias, prejudice, jailhouse snitches, lying prosecutors, and so forth indicate that the system does not always work, and we can't reboot someone's farking life.
 
2010-06-15 08:47:57 PM
didn't rick perry disband the tribunal looking into this? or is this another one.

/oh, and no irreversible punishments, kthx
 
2010-06-15 08:49:40 PM
Sentence murderers to life in prison without the possibility of parole. The way things are now, people on Death Row sit there for 20 years or more before being executed, anyway.
 
2010-06-15 08:50:09 PM
FlashHarry: didn't rick perry disband the tribunal looking into this? or is this another one.

/oh, and no irreversible punishments, kthx


You can reverse time spent locked in a cage? Wow.
 
2010-06-15 08:51:21 PM
San Jacinto County District Attorney Bill Burnett, the prosecutor in the case, died two weeks ago of pancreatic cancer. He had pushed first to have the hair destroyed and then to prevent DNA testing, arguing a jury's verdict should be final and only a live defendant could request DNA testing.

Weird. So, who is the really guilty party who the DA was evidently trying to protect?

I think the point people are missing is that the culprit might still be on the loose and a threat.
 
2010-06-15 08:52:18 PM
Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Salt Lick Steady: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: AnotherDisillusionedCollegeStudent: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: This reasoning shows a preference for vengeance over justice. It shows contempt for the US constitution, common law and the new testament.

What's the difference, really?

Justice is about maintaining the rule of law in a society, regardless of the person. Vengeance is about punishing someone specific for wrongdoing.

So... as long as someone is punished, and not someone specific, justice is served?

I guess justice was served in this case then.

Let me put it this way, as you seem to be delicate of intellect. It's the difference between a law and a bill of attainder.

Well now you're just making things up.


You have a tedious sense of humor.
 
2010-06-15 08:57:07 PM
ShamWowofDamocles:
How farking worthless is a posthumous pardon? I can't even come up with something that would be worth less than that. Farkers? A little help?


Obama's Nobel Peace Prize?
 
2010-06-15 09:03:32 PM
OK, I agree with the people who have determined that this fuktard should have never been let out of jail.

But, if DNA evidence indicates that someone ELSE committed the crime, the case needs to be re-opened. Cases where a person has been executed are closed. if a person innocent of that crime is executed, the perpatrator has gone FREE. Still around, still availible on the outside to kill people!

it is important to make sure the person or persons who committed a crime are the ones punished for that crime!
 
2010-06-15 09:03:35 PM
Why all the indignation? He was white.
 
2010-06-15 09:07:08 PM
Good News: Murdered got what was coming to him.
Bad News: It took 60 years for him to get it.
 
2010-06-15 09:09:42 PM
Is this really a surprise to anyone?

I don't support the death penalty in any case purely because of the less than zero chance that the state will kill the wrong person.

I do allow for exceptions to this position. The best example I can think of is John Wayne Gacy. There was just no way, considering the situation, that the cops could have framed Gacy short of a huge and massive conspiracy. Not that there couldn't be a huge and massive conspiracy against one person, but from what I know of the case, it's so improbable that he didn't kill all those kids they found buried in his crawl space that I'd support the death penalty for him. That's the standard I think should be implemented in murder convictions if we can't completely eliminate it.
 
2010-06-15 09:18:47 PM
Maybe one day Texas will have a Truth and Reconciliation Commission for the innocent victims of the death penalty, much like they had in South Africa after the fall of apartheid.
 
2010-06-15 09:19:59 PM
Heffaloo: The A-team?

DAMN RIGHT!!

I love it when a plan comes together.
 
2010-06-15 09:21:02 PM
Mugato: It's shiat like this (and it happens a lot) that make me wonder how anyone can support the death penalty.

Whatever. 0.1% of death row inmates being found innocent each year (roughly) is not alot.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-and-death-penalty
 
2010-06-15 09:22:49 PM
achilles_bogart: Mugato: It's shiat like this (and it happens a lot) that make me wonder how anyone can support the death penalty.

Whatever. 0.1% of death row inmates being found innocent each year (roughly) is not alot.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-and-death-penalty


I don't think the legal system should be perfect, but if we are going to be ok with imperfection maybe we shouldn't be killing people as punishment, just in case.
 
2010-06-15 09:23:18 PM
Too-Tall: That's the standard I think should be implemented in murder convictions

Many children in the crawl space. Got it.
 
2010-06-15 09:31:51 PM
But Bush assured us that everyone on death row was guilty. In fact, he acted like the media were retarded for even asking.
 
2010-06-15 09:33:14 PM
Kirk's_Toupee: Torok: His brothers statements make it seem like he admitted to his other crimes.

make it seem = illusion at best


I was just pointing it out. I can see how you pick and choose what evidence you consider so that it fits your position.
 
2010-06-15 09:33:19 PM
lilbjorn: But Bush assured us that everyone on death row was guilty. In fact, he acted like the media were retarded for even asking.

I hate to defend him, but "the media" is pretty farking retarded.
 
2010-06-15 09:37:28 PM
Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: fritton:
Well... then it all evens out right? Right?

No changes needed!!

Actually, no, it doesn't even out. We let way more murderers go free than innocent men we wrongly put to death. It doesn't even out by a long shot.


If that's the case, why don't you get rid of your farkup cops, detectives, and DAs then, instead of pushing for looser evidence rules?
 
2010-06-15 09:37:37 PM
eas81: /PRO DEATH PENALTY

Good argument.

My reasons for being against the death penalty are pretty simple. The first one is mistakes like this can happen. The second is that I don't think philosophically its very admirable or necessary for a system of law to include a framework that abides it.

The third is that for those who are truly guilty of the worst imaginable crimes, death is too good for them. The afterlife isn't real, and punishment is worthless if you can't experience it. Far better to deprive these people of dignity, worth and meaningfull interactions with other humans through harsh rape-ridden life sentences.

Death is an escape, they shouldn't have the option.
 
2010-06-15 09:37:38 PM
Braindeath: The number of people the innocence project has gotten out of jail because of jury bias, prejudice, jailhouse snitches, lying prosecutors, and so forth indicate that the system does not always work, and we can't reboot someone's farking life.

Ask the innocence project how many convictions have been confirmed by their work. Oh yeah, they refuse to release that information. I wonder why?
 
2010-06-15 09:39:56 PM
Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: His first robbery conviction was in 1959. He also served time in Kansas for robbery, murder and assault. While locked up there, he was convicted of killing a fellow inmate by throwing gasoline on him and setting him on fire. By 1984, however, he was out on parole despite a life term.

Eff this guy.


Maybe now he understands the injustice that others have felt by his hand.
 
2010-06-15 09:41:24 PM
BiggusDickus: Maybe now he understands the injustice that others have felt by his hand.

If he was still alive and being punished, sure. But he's dead now, which means he doesn't understand anything because his consciousness has ceased to be.
 
2010-06-15 09:48:35 PM
"Jones, a career criminal and paroled murderer"

Yeah, he was a regular Agnesë Gonxhe Bojaxhiu
 
2010-06-15 09:48:49 PM
CruiserTwelve: Braindeath: The number of people the innocence project has gotten out of jail because of jury bias, prejudice, jailhouse snitches, lying prosecutors, and so forth indicate that the system does not always work, and we can't reboot someone's farking life.

Ask the innocence project how many convictions have been confirmed by their work. Oh yeah, they refuse to release that information. I wonder why?


Even if the answer is "all of the ones they haven't proven wrong" the fact is too many die wrongfully. Just keep them in jail forever.
 
2010-06-15 09:54:42 PM
Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: fritton: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Burn98: therhinodep: For all you turd burglers who are crying for this dipshiat:
1) The DNA test hasn't been run yet.
2) Even if the hair isn't his, that doesn't prove his innocence.
3) He definitely killed at least two other people.
4) Karma is a biatch.

5) We still kill people for things they didn't do.

6) We still let people go free for things they did do

Well... then it all evens out right? Right?

No changes needed!!

Actually, no, it doesn't even out. We let way more murderers go free than innocent men we wrongly put to death. It doesn't even out by a long shot.


Wow, what if that innocent person was you? Or your brother? Or your father? Our your husband/wife/child? Will you justify it in your messed up mind by saying: "eh, at least the system puts murderers to death, too"?

Just wow.
 
2010-06-15 09:56:28 PM
Torok: Kirk's_Toupee: Torok: His brothers statements make it seem like he admitted to his other crimes.

make it seem = illusion at best

I was just pointing it out. I can see how you pick and choose what evidence you consider so that it fits your position.


likewise
 
2010-06-15 09:58:06 PM
CruiserTwelve: Braindeath: The number of people the innocence project has gotten out of jail because of jury bias, prejudice, jailhouse snitches, lying prosecutors, and so forth indicate that the system does not always work, and we can't reboot someone's farking life.

Ask the innocence project how many convictions have been confirmed by their work. Oh yeah, they refuse to release that information. I wonder why?


Does the number matter? If 1 out of a 1000 people on death row or in jail for the rest of his/her life didn't do it, s/he needs to be found and released. If it takes going through the other 999 to find that 1, so be it.
 
2010-06-15 09:59:18 PM
pb-crunch: CruiserTwelve: Braindeath: The number of people the innocence project has gotten out of jail because of jury bias, prejudice, jailhouse snitches, lying prosecutors, and so forth indicate that the system does not always work, and we can't reboot someone's farking life.

Ask the innocence project how many convictions have been confirmed by their work. Oh yeah, they refuse to release that information. I wonder why?

Does the number matter? If 1 out of a 1000 people on death row or in jail for the rest of his/her life didn't do it, s/he needs to be found and released. If it takes going through the other 999 to find that 1, so be it.


i agree wholeheartedly.
 
2010-06-15 10:04:38 PM
Joey JoJo Junior Shabadoo: In my opinion, I don't think Jesus would have been for the death penalty...

Matthew 5:38-39 seems to suggest as much.
 
2010-06-15 10:05:02 PM
Things that don't bother me.

A lifetime criminal and convicted murderer being executed.

Things that DO bother me.


The Texas DA fighting harder than hell to get evidence destroyed...ANY evidence, but in particular evidence in a death penalty case...until the day he died.

The Texas criminal justice system continuing to fight against investigating a wrongful conviction & execution in the face of significant doubt.

The fact that this is the second time this has happened.

The fact that this is the second time it's happened IN A YEAR.
 
2010-06-15 10:08:29 PM
Arklop: Joey JoJo Junior Shabadoo: In my opinion, I don't think Jesus would have been for the death penalty...

Matthew 5:38-39 seems to suggest as much.


Well of course you would be more in favour of the death penalty if you believed there was a hell for the truly vile criminals to go to. But if you understand that consciousness ends with death, you understand that death isn't much of a punishment. Far better to devise a punishment that can actually be experienced.
 
2010-06-15 10:09:21 PM
Fuller: BiggusDickus: Maybe now he understands the injustice that others have felt by his hand.

If he was still alive and being punished, sure. But he's dead now, which means he doesn't understand anything because his consciousness has ceased to be.


I stand corrected. Still, I'm not terribly saddened given his previous infractions.
 
2010-06-15 10:10:20 PM
BiggusDickus: I stand corrected. Still, I'm not terribly saddened given his previous infractions.

But that's my point, considering the previous infractions, death is too easy.
 
2010-06-15 10:10:25 PM
queezyweezel: And the penalties for the people that wrongly convicted him?

Someone is sure to frown on their shenanigans.
 
2010-06-15 10:14:35 PM
I love all the commentary like "Well sure, maybe this guy was wrongly executed for this crime, BUT LOOK AT HIS RAP SHEET! Obviously he deserved it!!!"

Lets not look at the inconvenient fact that there's a clear pattern emerging down there in Texas, and it's becoming more and more likely that there's been someone far less infamous wrongly executed.

Just keep on keepin' on with that vigilante justice, just pray you don't end up on the wrong side of it.
 
2010-06-15 10:15:18 PM
I missed the part where they actually did a DNA test. How could the test show anything if it hasn't been done yet?
 
2010-06-15 10:24:23 PM
ShamWowofDamocles:How farking worthless is a posthumous pardon? I can't even come up with something that would be worth less than that. Farkers? A little help?

I think it helps the surviving family members. It provides them with a formal apology and removes some of the shame and stigma of being related to an alleged murderer.

Not much help in pure practical terms but it's good the system recognizes its not just the prisoner that suffers from a mistaken execution.
 
2010-06-15 10:26:42 PM
RockChalkH1N1: FTFA

"His first robbery conviction was in 1959. He also served time in Kansas for robbery, murder and assault. While locked up there, he was convicted of killing a fellow inmate by throwing gasoline on him and setting him on fire. By 1984, however, he was out on parole despite a life term."


Are you kidding me LibTards? I bet most of you didn't read the article. This guy was a bad guy. He killed more than one person and robbed a bunch of people. There is nothing in this article that says he's innocent.

He got off easy. Instead of putting him to sleep they should have burned him alive.


Cool! You burn him alive - then I get to burn you alive for burning him alive! Eventually we'll forget who was the one who did the first bad thing, but by then we'll all feel so good about torturing bad people that it won't even matter! Awesome! Hell, why even have laws, lets just assume that everyone's knee jerk emotional reactions are correct if they come out of the winning side of a conflict! Meet me under the orange grove where we can start planning our new super duper society.
 
2010-06-15 10:28:58 PM
jst3p: CruiserTwelve: Braindeath: The number of people the innocence project has gotten out of jail because of jury bias, prejudice, jailhouse snitches, lying prosecutors, and so forth indicate that the system does not always work, and we can't reboot someone's farking life.

Ask the innocence project how many convictions have been confirmed by their work. Oh yeah, they refuse to release that information. I wonder why?

Even if the answer is "all of the ones they haven't proven wrong" the fact is too many die wrongfully. Just keep them in jail forever.



...and if innocent people die in jail?
Life in prision just executes people slower.
 
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