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(Times-Tribune)   Pennsylvania county bans "unlicensed" firearms in county parks. Difficulty: Pennsylvania doesn't license guns, so even cop guns would be prohibited   (thetimes-tribune.com) divider line 126
    More: Fail, Recreation Department, public hearings, Westmoreland County, logical reasoning, county officials, shooting ranges, rewrite, county commission  
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6248 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jun 2010 at 12:26 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



126 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2010-06-14 10:53:01 AM  
They can just stand at the edges of the parks with scoped rifles in case there is trouble.
 
2010-06-14 11:30:45 AM  
Wait, what? The gun is supposed to apply for the license? And all this time I thought talking to my weapon to teach it english was a bad idea.
 
2010-06-14 11:32:44 AM  
I am totally cool with forcing the cops to disarm themselves.
 
2010-06-14 11:40:35 AM  
Yeesh....this sounds like something out of the Greg Nickles/Seattle City Council playbook.
 
2010-06-14 11:43:29 AM  
The_Sponge: Yeesh....this sounds like something out of the Greg Nickles/Seattle City Council playbook.

it's lackawanna county. that should tell you something right there. county commissioners in these parts aren't always the sharpest tools in the shed.
 
2010-06-14 11:48:56 AM  
What about if I just keep my gun on a leash at all times?
/yes, that is authentic Pennsylvanian English.
 
2010-06-14 11:54:58 AM  
I need get a license for my gun Erik and my cat, Erik.
/Brilliant, Pennsylvania
 
2010-06-14 12:27:34 PM  
About those machine gun and marijuana stamps...
 
2010-06-14 12:27:53 PM  
Big Man On Campus: Wait, what? The gun is supposed to apply for the license? And all this time I thought talking to my weapon to teach it english was a bad idea.

so you never taught it how to read? the shame
 
2010-06-14 12:29:21 PM  
I'm totally getting vanity plates for my guns!
 
2010-06-14 12:31:52 PM  
WTF is wrong with American's that they feel they need to be armed at all times?

Really? Seriously? The extent of most people's violent encounters involve bar fights and playgrounds when they were kids....AH...OIC...
 
2010-06-14 12:32:01 PM  
beverly8: Big Man On Campus: Wait, what? The gun is supposed to apply for the license? And all this time I thought talking to my weapon to teach it english was a bad idea.

so you never taught it how to read? the shame


Damn gun nuts and their ignorant guns...
 
2010-06-14 12:32:50 PM  
So until now it was perfectly legal to carry an unlicensed firearm in the parks?
 
2010-06-14 12:33:45 PM  
pippi longstocking: WTF is wrong with American's that they feel they need to be armed at all times?

Really? Seriously? The extent of most people's violent encounters involve bar fights and playgrounds when they were kids....AH...OIC...


We've replaced your normal troll with new Folger's Troll-tastic Blend. Let's see if anyone notices.
 
2010-06-14 12:34:19 PM  
pippi longstocking: WTF is wrong with American's that they feel they need to be armed at all times?

Really? Seriously? The extent of most people's violent encounters involve bar fights and playgrounds when they were kids....AH...OIC...


Must be nice to live in your Utopia where muggings and robbery are a thing of the past.
 
2010-06-14 12:34:36 PM  
freidog: So until now it was perfectly legal to carry an unlicensed firearm in the parks?

Pretty much, yes. As it should be.
 
2010-06-14 12:35:00 PM  
pippi longstocking: WTF is wrong with American's that they feel they need to be armed at all times?

I don't feel the need to be armed at all times. But there's no reason for me to not be allowed to be armed whenever I want to be armed.
 
2010-06-14 12:35:45 PM  
Ball of Confusion: Damn gun nuts and their ignorant guns...

No kidding! My rifle won't even calculate windage and holdover. I've got to do that for it. Lazy rifle! You'd think is was an inanimate object.
 
2010-06-14 12:36:24 PM  
This will go great with our fun little 1984 law limiting the rights of adoptees in Pennsylvania, which violates the Equal Protection clause.

Go, PA Go...

/meh
//I need to move...
 
2010-06-14 12:36:57 PM  
I used to work in a PA state park back in high school. We were buddies with the one ranger, an older guy, and used to test his combat-readiness when he least expected it.

"I'm an armed assailant, now. Can you put me down in time? Baton or gun? BATON OR GUN? THIS IS ME STABBING YOU."
 
2010-06-14 12:37:13 PM  
Weaver95: The_Sponge: Yeesh....this sounds like something out of the Greg Nickles/Seattle City Council playbook.

it's lackawanna county. that should tell you something right there. county commissioners in these parts aren't always the sharpest tools in the shed.


They are pretty good at taking bribes and kickbacks though, like the rest of NEPA.

/31 people now?
 
2010-06-14 12:38:21 PM  
Just goes to show you how DUMB the anti-gun crowd is.

No brains what so ever.

How could anyone think otherwise? I mean these people actually think a hunk of metal is bad.

What they don't see to get is that's impossible, and they are delusional.

Guns/cars/knives/capitalism/socialism/et cetera CAN'T be bad.

They are just things and ideas. They can't be bad.

People are bad. People make bad decisions while wielding these things and ideas. People are the ones who need to be held responsible for their actions. You could take away all of the perceived "bad" things and certain people would still find a way to rob and kill and rape.

We have to start holding PEOPLE accountable. That is the only way to clean up any mess.

On a side note, what is it with farking liberals and their need to ban "things" and at the same time not want to hold people responsible and accountable for their actions.

Liberal: "oh dear lord, that bad, bad, knife made that person kill that guy."

Everyone Else: "Really? Cause all my knife made me do was spread jam on my toast."
 
2010-06-14 12:38:51 PM  
Scutter: pippi longstocking: WTF is wrong with American's that they feel they need to be armed at all times?

Really? Seriously? The extent of most people's violent encounters involve bar fights and playgrounds when they were kids....AH...OIC...

Must be nice to live in your Utopia where muggings and robbery are a thing of the past.


...and where wild animals in the national parks are actually quite non-violent. Docile and lethargic, really.

/does it count as being trolled if I responded to someone who responded to a troll?
 
2010-06-14 12:41:22 PM  
The_Sponge: Yeesh....this sounds like something out of the Greg Nickles/Seattle City Council playbook.

That pissed me off, but it was pretty funny to see the city slapped down for it. I work with the Parks Dept and everyone thought it was a stupid rule. I wanted to steal one of the signs to use as a target before they were taken down...
 
2010-06-14 12:45:14 PM  
Good thing that no one in PA pays any attention to the law anyway.
 
2010-06-14 12:48:19 PM  
Lackawanna Wonderful!
 
2010-06-14 12:48:46 PM  
I have this mental picture of a couple of fat cops trying to chase a guy down inside the park. They have to actually run after him and tackle him, instead of just putting a couple of bullets in his back. The Wacky Sax music from Benny Hill plays throughout the scene.
 
2010-06-14 12:49:08 PM  
I love the idea that a criminal, who is already carrying an illegal weapon, will see the park rule and say "Oh, well that applies to me, I dont want to get in trouble for this ILLEGAL WEAPON I AM ALREADY CARRYING"

mmmmm ignorance is bliss, and there sure are a lot of happy people out there.

Folks just like gun control laws dont stop criminals from getting guns, they wont stop criminals from carrying them places. get rid of criminals, the environments that create and harbor them, and the systems that allow them to continue to thrive, and you wont have a gun problem
 
2010-06-14 12:49:09 PM  
freidog: So until now it was perfectly legal to carry an unlicensed firearm in the parks?

Well...if you can't license a firearm in the state, then yes. Obviously it was (and probably still is, since this law is retarded).
 
2010-06-14 12:51:52 PM  
For people asking "Why do you need a gun in a park?"

You don't really need it there any more than anywhere else, but that isn't the issue. The issue is that local officials are arbitrarily creating areas where certain constitutional rights no longer exist. It makes sense to prohibit guns in courthouses, but parks? Has anyone been shot recently in a park there? Would they have been deterred by a sign? Or is it just feel-good BS to create an illusion of safety?

For the record, I don't carry or even own a pistol currently. And I'm a dirty liberal.
 
2010-06-14 12:55:18 PM  
Necrosis: For people asking "Why do you need a gun in a park?"

You don't really need it there any more than anywhere else, but that isn't the issue. The issue is that local officials are arbitrarily creating areas where certain constitutional rights no longer exist. It makes sense to prohibit guns in courthouses, but parks? Has anyone been shot recently in a park there? Would they have been deterred by a sign? Or is it just feel-good BS to create an illusion of safety?

For the record, I don't carry or even own a pistol currently. And I'm a dirty liberal.


This depends on the park, actually. I'm not familiar enough with these parks but I'm guessing your statement might hold true here. However, out west or up further north maybe not so much. Large predators can be a problem, you know.
 
2010-06-14 12:58:55 PM  
pippi longstocking: WTF is wrong with American's that they feel they need to be armed at all times?

Really? Seriously? The extent of most people's violent encounters involve bar fights and playgrounds when they were kids....AH...OIC...


Yeah, because I can see *all* home invasions going like this:

Burglar: *sneaks into victim's bedroom to steal/kill*

Victim: *wakes up* Huh? Who are you?!

Burglar: I'm gonna steal your stuff, then kill you for teh lulz!

Victim: Nuh-uh-uh! Nuh-uh-uh! *finger wags* That is bad! Very bad, bad, bad!

Burglar: *hangs head* Ohh, shucks! I guess that is bad. Okay, I'm gonna go now. Buh-bye! *leaves quickly*
 
2010-06-14 01:03:43 PM  
pippi longstocking: WTF is wrong with American's that they feel they need to be armed at all times?

Really? Seriously? The extent of most people's violent encounters involve bar fights and playgrounds when they were kids....AH...OIC...


Yeah, and MOST people prefer to keep it that way. Many prefer to arm themselves to prevent being a crime statistic. But don't worry-many of the "enlightened" among us are working diligently to change this.
 
2010-06-14 01:05:22 PM  
ronaprhys: Necrosis: For people asking "Why do you need a gun in a park?"

You don't really need it there any more than anywhere else, but that isn't the issue. The issue is that local officials are arbitrarily creating areas where certain constitutional rights no longer exist. It makes sense to prohibit guns in courthouses, but parks? Has anyone been shot recently in a park there? Would they have been deterred by a sign? Or is it just feel-good BS to create an illusion of safety?

For the record, I don't carry or even own a pistol currently. And I'm a dirty liberal.

This depends on the park, actually. I'm not familiar enough with these parks but I'm guessing your statement might hold true here. However, out west or up further north maybe not so much. Large predators can be a problem, you know.


There have been a few times camping/hiking where I would've been more comfortable with a shotgun or something handy. Being dismembered by a bear or mountain lion ranks pretty low on my to-do list.
 
2010-06-14 01:05:55 PM  
Good. Law enforcement should have to abide by the same gun laws as other citizens.
 
2010-06-14 01:07:27 PM  
FYI: It's PA state law that local government may not enact their own gun laws. So they fail on two counts with this one.
 
2010-06-14 01:07:59 PM  
Here's a suggestion to legislative bodies of all kinds:

The next time you get a feeling that you need to create more useless laws... let it pass.

Thanks.
 
2010-06-14 01:09:03 PM  
I don't care if I can't carry a weapon into a PA park, but FARK YOU!!!! if you think you can stop me from smoking in a OPEN AIR PARK..I have every right to be there too. Keep up wind and it'll be ok...oh and don't breathe/eat/drink because everything will give you cancer just as assuredly.
 
2010-06-14 01:12:04 PM  
Big Man On Campus: Wait, what? The gun is supposed to apply for the license? And all this time I thought talking to my weapon to teach it english was a bad idea.

I was wondering why that AK I bought from the guy in the van will only clear when I cuss at it in Spanish.
 
2010-06-14 01:12:52 PM  
I saw the headline and knew, KNEW, it had to be Lackawanna. There might as well be a Lackawanna tag...
 
2010-06-14 01:22:55 PM  
Spade: Weaver95: The_Sponge: Yeesh....this sounds like something out of the Greg Nickles/Seattle City Council playbook.

it's lackawanna county. that should tell you something right there. county commissioners in these parts aren't always the sharpest tools in the shed.

They are pretty good at taking bribes and kickbacks though, like the rest of NEPA.

/31 people now?


and all but 2 of them were either elected democrats or were appointed by elected democrats
 
2010-06-14 01:24:00 PM  
Little OT:
billstclair.com

PA is rumored to have Mt. Lions. Would you want to be walking through a park unarmed when you could be attacked by a lion?

For Urbanite clarification, these 'parks' are not manicured lawns where you go and sit. They are often publicly owned wilderness where many people take long hikes and overnight camping.
 
2010-06-14 01:25:02 PM  
devine: freidog: So until now it was perfectly legal to carry an unlicensed firearm in the parks?

Pretty much, yes. As it should be.


Now see, I would have just assumed in most places you would need some sort of certification before being allowed to roam around crowded public places with a loaded weapon. Something to state you at least know the difference between the safety and the trigger, or which end you don't point at people.
At least I would feel a lot safer going out in public if that's the case.

/yes, yes, yes, you know how to use a firearm, that doesn't mean everybody who can pass a background check can safely handle one.
 
2010-06-14 01:28:05 PM  
I think the "no unsupervised children under 14 in the parks." is a stupid rule too.

We don't want any 6 & 7th graders coming over here for a picnic!!

I know 12,13,14 year olds cause mischief but there are a lot of really good kids out there too. "Let's go hang out in at the park." "We can't - not allowed."

This is just the local government being lazy. Easier to ban them all.
 
2010-06-14 01:28:35 PM  
pippi longstocking: WTF is wrong with American's that they feel they need to be armed at all times?

Really? Seriously? The extent of most people's violent encounters involve bar fights and playgrounds when they were kids....AH...OIC...


I live in Alabama, and I only know a few people who own guns. I do know one guy who owns a pistol he bought on the street from some random guy, and he gave that gun to a friend to keep for him. When asked why he bought the gun if he doesn't need it, never uses it and doesn't even have possession of it (he was afraid his mom would find it...) he just shrugged his shoulders and said "cause you gotta have one to survive out there", whatever the fark that means.

People who own guns here are generally
1) collectors
2) crazy militia people
3) gang members
4) hunters
5) cops
6) people who listen to rap
7) people concerned for their safety

List is organized based on how many guns these people are more likely to have. A concerned citizen might have a pistol in their closet or drawer or something. Collectors will have guns scattered about the house as though they were knick-knacks.

The really funny thing is that most of the guns floating around out there killing people on the street are guns that people stole by breaking into someone else's house while they weren't there. People will leave their guns in plain sight instead of locking them up.
 
2010-06-14 01:29:02 PM  
pippi longstocking: WTF is wrong with American's that they feel they need to be armed at all times?

Really? Seriously? The extent of most people's violent encounters involve bar fights and playgrounds when they were kids....AH...OIC...


They aren't "armed at all times". Some of us are armed some of the time. Usually for hunting or sport shooting. Your fear of weaponry is precious.
 
2010-06-14 01:30:30 PM  
HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO ENJOY THE COUNTY PARK IF NOBODY IS SHOOTING ANY GUNS???
 
2010-06-14 01:32:09 PM  
freidog: Now see, I would have just assumed in most places you would need some sort of certification before being allowed to roam around crowded public places with a loaded weapon.

An you'd assume wrong.

At least I would feel a lot safer going out in public if that's the case.

Why? Are you getting hit by misfires right now? Because there's a whole fark-ton of folks out there who carry all the time (without any kind of liscense), and they don't seem to be hurting you.
 
2010-06-14 01:33:15 PM  
BHShaman: Little OT:


PA is rumored to have Mt. Lions. Would you want to be walking through a park unarmed when you could be attacked by a lion?

For Urbanite clarification, these 'parks' are not manicured lawns where you go and sit. They are often publicly owned wilderness where many people take long hikes and overnight camping.


PA hasn't seen any mountain lions for fifty someodd years
 
2010-06-14 01:33:59 PM  


List is organized based on how many guns these people are more likely to have. .... Collectors will have guns scattered about the house as though they were knick-knacks.



Pretty good list there. Though real collectors have their firearms in a humidity controlled safe or even safe room, not leaning up against the door jam or laying behind the couch. That would be a wanna be collector just trying to impress his non-gun owning friends with how many guns he has.
 
2010-06-14 01:35:16 PM  
freidog: Now see, I would have just assumed in most places you would need some sort of certification before being allowed to roam around crowded public places with a loaded weapon. Something to state you at least know the difference between the safety and the trigger, or which end you don't point at people.
At least I would feel a lot safer going out in public if that's the case.



Quite a few jurisdictions in the US allow any adult without a criminal record to buy a gun, walk out of the store with it the same day, and carry it in an unconcealed holster in public with no further requirements.

Strangely enough, these areas don't suffer from an unusually high number of mishaps with firearms compared to more restrictive jurisdictions.

So, would it make sense to enact more restrictive legislation based solely on fear and hypothetical worries that have no basis in fact?

/profile pic taken at Tonto Natural Bridge State Park.
 
2010-06-14 01:35:43 PM  
seanmcd51: I think the "no unsupervised children under 14 in the parks." is a stupid rule too.

We don't want any 6 & 7th graders coming over here for a picnic!!

I know 12,13,14 year olds cause mischief but there are a lot of really good kids out there too. "Let's go hang out in at the park." "We can't - not allowed."

This is just the local government being lazy. Easier to ban them all.


Yeah, a picnic? This is a horrible idea and I nominate you for State Park Daycare Committee. Also, lawsuit vs state within the week they lift that ban. 17-year-old jackasses have a hard enough time not dying under the dam in my local state park, we don't need unsupervised 12-year-olds floating around with them.
 
2010-06-14 01:37:53 PM  
Lost Thought 00: BHShaman:
PA is rumored to have Mt. Lions.....

LT00:
PA hasn't seen any mountain lions for fifty someodd years


Hence, RUMORED....
*sigh*
 
2010-06-14 01:38:41 PM  
8Draw: seanmcd51: I think the "no unsupervised children under 14 in the parks." is a stupid rule too.

We don't want any 6 & 7th graders coming over here for a picnic!!

I know 12,13,14 year olds cause mischief but there are a lot of really good kids out there too. "Let's go hang out in at the park." "We can't - not allowed."

This is just the local government being lazy. Easier to ban them all.

Yeah, a picnic? This is a horrible idea and I nominate you for State Park Daycare Committee. Also, lawsuit vs state within the week they lift that ban. 17-year-old jackasses have a hard enough time not dying under the dam in my local state park, we don't need unsupervised 12-year-olds floating around with them.


Look at the bright side. If you let the jackasses kill themselves at twelve they're less likely to leave little jackasses to replace them in the future.
 
2010-06-14 01:39:02 PM  
freidog: devine: freidog: So until now it was perfectly legal to carry an unlicensed firearm in the parks?

Pretty much, yes. As it should be.

Now see, I would have just assumed in most places you would need some sort of certification before being allowed to roam around crowded public places with a loaded weapon. Something to state you at least know the difference between the safety and the trigger, or which end you don't point at people.
At least I would feel a lot safer going out in public if that's the case.

/yes, yes, yes, you know how to use a firearm, that doesn't mean everybody who can pass a background check can safely handle one.


I can buy a chainsaw with cash.
 
2010-06-14 01:42:28 PM  
No unlicensed people allowed in park either.
 
2010-06-14 01:44:00 PM  
Lost Thought 00: PA hasn't seen any mountain lions for fifty someodd years

They're rare, but there are still mountain lions in PA.

That said, I think the odds of running into one here are so low you'd have to be retarded to arm yourself specifically for that purpose.
 
2010-06-14 01:46:56 PM  
Weaver95: it's lackawanna county. that should tell you something right there. county commissioners in these parts aren't always the sharpest tools in the shed.

Well - to be fair - county commissioners in these parts spend all of their time anymore just trying to avoid jail.
 
2010-06-14 01:47:10 PM  
freidog: Now see, I would have just assumed in most places you would need some sort of certification before being allowed to roam around crowded public places with a loaded weapon. Something to state you at least know the difference between the safety and the trigger, or which end you don't point at people.
At least I would feel a lot safer going out in public if that's the case.


You'd be amazed to find out that St. Louis (presumably in MO) is in a state that allows both concealed carry (new window) and open carry (new window). Missouri's open carry laws are byzantine and driven by local ordinance, but it is technically legal.

IMHO responsible firearm owners that choose to carry will always carry concealed, but YMMV. While I can open carry in Ohio I don't feel like explaining that I can to the uniformed gentleman gently stepping on my neck who doesn't know the law or the panicking soccer mom that is calling 911 about a "man with a gun".
 
2010-06-14 01:48:42 PM  
JesseL: freidog: Now see, I would have just assumed in most places you would need some sort of certification before being allowed to roam around crowded public places with a loaded weapon. Something to state you at least know the difference between the safety and the trigger, or which end you don't point at people.
At least I would feel a lot safer going out in public if that's the case.


Quite a few jurisdictions in the US allow any adult without a criminal record to buy a gun, walk out of the store with it the same day, and carry it in an unconcealed holster in public with no further requirements.

Strangely enough, these areas don't suffer from an unusually high number of mishaps with firearms compared to more restrictive jurisdictions.

So, would it make sense to enact more restrictive legislation based solely on fear and hypothetical worries that have no basis in fact?

/profile pic taken at Tonto Natural Bridge State Park.


In AZ, AK, or VT you can go ahead an conceal it too.

/I hear VT is a violent and dangerous because of their weak gun laws
//must be the war over who will control the granola.
 
2010-06-14 01:49:48 PM  
knightofargh: IMHO responsible firearm owners that choose to carry will always carry concealed

Why?

While I can open carry in Ohio I don't feel like explaining that I can to the uniformed gentleman gently stepping on my neck who doesn't know the law or the panicking soccer mom that is calling 911 about a "man with a gun".

I can dig that reason, but I don't see how you can say that it's irresponsible to put up with that (if that is in fact what you were saying)
 
2010-06-14 01:51:14 PM  
8Draw: They're rare, but there are still mountain lions in PA.

no. i think the last one was shot a century ago.

people report them, but they're probably bobcats
 
2010-06-14 01:54:51 PM  
albo: people report them, but they're probably bobcats

Can't say I'd want to fark with a bobcat either.
 
2010-06-14 01:56:08 PM  
knightofargh: IMHO responsible firearm owners that choose to carry will always carry concealed, but YMMV. While I can open carry in Ohio I don't feel like explaining that I can to the uniformed gentleman gently stepping on my neck who doesn't know the law or the panicking soccer mom that is calling 911 about a "man with a gun".

Some states aren't bad at all for open carry. I've been doing it in AZ for 11 years now and have never had so much as a raised eyebrow from law enforcement. If anyone calls 911 and squawks about a man with a gun, the operator's first question is to ask whether he's actually doing anything with it, or just going about his business with a holstered pistol. If it's the latter, they explain to the caller that it's perfectly legal to do that. They may send a police car by to take a look, but if the open carrier is obeying the law they don't bother to stop them.


spartywrx: In AZ, AK, or VT you can go ahead an conceal it too.

Not until July 29 (90 days after the legislature adjourned) for AZ.
 
2010-06-14 01:56:55 PM  
Noticeably F.A.T.: knightofargh: IMHO responsible firearm owners that choose to carry will always carry concealed

Why?

While I can open carry in Ohio I don't feel like explaining that I can to the uniformed gentleman gently stepping on my neck who doesn't know the law or the panicking soccer mom that is calling 911 about a "man with a gun".

I can dig that reason, but I don't see how you can say that it's irresponsible to put up with that (if that is in fact what you were saying)


I personally believe that those of us on the anti-disarmament side of the equation do more damage by flaunting or openly displaying our sidearms than the deterrent factor warrants. But that's just like my opinion man.

I find it irresponsible to provoke a reaction from local LEOs and I certainly don't want to provoke a negative reaction "for the children" since Ohio still has limited preemption on firearm regulation.
 
2010-06-14 01:58:25 PM  
albo: 8Draw: They're rare, but there are still mountain lions in PA.

no. i think the last one was shot a century ago.

people report them, but they're probably bobcats


I knew it was one of them. You're probably right.
 
2010-06-14 02:00:21 PM  
JesseL: Some states aren't bad at all for open carry. I've been doing it in AZ for 11 years now and have never had so much as a raised eyebrow from law enforcement. If anyone calls 911 and squawks about a man with a gun, the operator's first question is to ask whether he's actually doing anything with it, or just going about his business with a holstered pistol. If it's the latter, they explain to the caller that it's perfectly legal to do that. They may send a police car by to take a look, but if the open carrier is obeying the law they don't bother to stop them.

I recall my sister-in-law's confusion when she moved out to Scottsdale. She didn't understand why there were clean-cut men wandering around with pistols on their hips. Ohio isn't very progressive, at least inside the major metro areas, regarding open carry. I just find it better to conceal, again that's just my opinion.

I didn't realize you were left handed JesseL or do you cross draw? Being a lefty would be annoying with some of your more bolt actiony firearms.
 
2010-06-14 02:02:29 PM  
knightofargh: I personally believe that those of us on the anti-disarmament side of the equation do more damage by flaunting or openly displaying our sidearms than the deterrent factor warrants. But that's just like my opinion man.

The other side of that coin is that never letting anyone see a responsible firearm carrier plays into the supposition that they don't exist.

I can sympathize with your situation, but it's not universal. In my situation, I consider it important to maintain the high level of acceptance we already have.
 
2010-06-14 02:03:14 PM  
Noticeably F.A.T.: knightofargh: IMHO responsible firearm owners that choose to carry will always carry concealed

Why?

While I can open carry in Ohio I don't feel like explaining that I can to the uniformed gentleman gently stepping on my neck who doesn't know the law or the panicking soccer mom that is calling 911 about a "man with a gun".

I can dig that reason, but I don't see how you can say that it's irresponsible to put up with that (if that is in fact what you were saying)


He's saying that it's more pragmatic to avoid the biatching/moaning/complaining/false arresting. I agree it's easier but I disagree that easier is better in this case.

The more societal pressure keeps people from expressing the rights they were born with (some of which are codified in the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights) the easier it gets for governments to legislate them away.

Yes, that's the 'slippery slope' argument but it's valid in this case because the concept of a slippery slope is EXACTLY what the framers had in mind when they wrote the stuff.

/I'm not a republican, a tea-partier, religious, or a member of any sort of militia. The closest label I think fits my politics is 'compassionate libertarian'.
 
2010-06-14 02:03:49 PM  
knightofargh: I personally believe that those of us on the anti-disarmament side of the equation do more damage by flaunting or openly displaying our sidearms than the deterrent factor warrants. But that's just like my opinion man.

I find it irresponsible to provoke a reaction from local LEOs and I certainly don't want to provoke a negative reaction "for the children" since Ohio still has limited preemption on firearm regulation.


Yeah, I still see where you're coming from, but I'm not going to agree with you. I'm not going to stop doing something that is completely legal (especially something as basic as bearing arms) just because someone gets their panties wadded about it. If you don't want to deal with the crap that's cool with me, I've had days myself where I covered up just because I just knew someone was going to talk to me, and talking to people kinda sucks sometimes. But to say it's irresponsible I think is a bit over the line. And while there's bound to be at least a few people out there that truly are flaunting the fact that they are armed, most people who open carry are doing it just because that's what they prefer.
 
2010-06-14 02:04:25 PM  
knightofargh: I didn't realize you were left handed JesseL or do you cross draw? Being a lefty would be annoying with some of your more bolt actiony firearms.

I'm cross dominant. Left handed & right eyed. I shoot handguns left handed (though I still sight with my right eye) and I shoot long guns right handed.
 
2010-06-14 02:07:53 PM  
albo: 8Draw: They're rare, but there are still mountain lions in PA.

no. i think the last one was shot a century ago.

people report them, but they're probably bobcats


Michigan swore up and down that the lower peninsula didn't have wolves, wolverines, or mountain lions. Up until they had to admit that after years of sightings and spoor, that yes, they had wolves, wolverines, and mountain lions.
 
2010-06-14 02:09:07 PM  
JesseL: The other side of that coin is that never letting anyone see a responsible firearm carrier plays into the supposition that they don't exist.

Unfortunately the largest retailer and public range in my area is full of the scary and irresponsible types that make FARK headlines. Most of them happen to be behind the counter. I stopped frequenting that range when I had a customer sweep the range with a loaded rental gun and proceed to discharge it into the wall about five feet in front of the firing line. The idiot wasn't cautioned or ejected since the range safety officer was off sneaking a quick smoke on the clock.

Unfortunately that kind of stupidity governs how the locals see firearm owners. I've taught a few folks that were nearly soured on the shooting sports by the staff at that range. They never got to see the well run private ranges or the smaller shops. If only I could find a decent private range that allows rifle and pistol without requiring NRA membership...
 
2010-06-14 02:11:32 PM  
JesseL: knightofargh: I didn't realize you were left handed JesseL or do you cross draw? Being a lefty would be annoying with some of your more bolt actiony firearms.

I'm cross dominant.


I can't even picture how that would work. Do you have to tilt your head to one side or do you use a weaver stance and blade your body the "opposite" way?

/"cross dominant" sounds like a position from the catholic priest's kama sutra
 
2010-06-14 02:13:33 PM  
I've lived and grown up in my area for over 30 years. Never once have I been in a situation where I felt a gun was needed. All of my friends that do not carry guns, not once has any of them ever said to me "man, I wish I had a gun last night." Yet, my friends that DO own guns, traveling in the same places and social circles me and my non-gun toting friends travel, have ALL found a reason to pull their gun out at some point in time. And of all those situations, ALL could have been avoided if they had just minded their own business. One friend ended up pulling his out on some dude because he had been having a yelling match with his girl. My friend felt it his duty to play Mr. Hero, and it ended up with him pointing a gun at someone who had done him no harm. Granted, I don't hang out with him anymore.

Don't know anyone else, but the people I know that carry a gun do it because they love the thought of being able to kill someone someday.
 
2010-06-14 02:18:01 PM  
JesseL: I'm cross dominant. Left handed & right eyed. I shoot handguns left handed (though I still sight with my right eye) and I shoot long guns right handed.

Clarification appreciated. I just noticed today that you holster for a left hand draw in your profile.

Noticeably F.A.T.: But to say it's irresponsible I think is a bit over the line. And while there's bound to be at least a few people out there that truly are flaunting the fact that they are armed, most people who open carry are doing it just because that's what they prefer.

Agreed. Irresponsible is probably a touch harsh. Would you agree that in some sections of the country "inadvisable" sums it up better? If only I could retract that quickly typed statement.

In my instance the jack boot of the law would step lightly upon me at my old residence 15 miles from where I now reside, anywhere within 5 miles of my work would be a tazering and false arrest and LEOs would ignore me within a couple miles of my current residence since they know me. It really gets down to a YMMV status. I still need to buy a smaller carry gun for summer, it's hard to conceal a full frame without wearing a baggy vest or sweater.
 
2010-06-14 02:18:13 PM  
/delurk

3.bp.blogspot.com

//relurk
 
2010-06-14 02:24:12 PM  
stonicus: Don't know anyone else, but the people I know that carry a gun do it because they love the thought of being able to kill someone someday.

Half the idiots I grew up around would pick up a case of beer just because they loved driving around drunk. So, turn in your car.

/First half of that is actually true, unfortunately.

knightofargh: Would you agree that in some sections of the country "inadvisable" sums it up better?

Alright, I'm not gonna biatch about that. If the cops really are that bad, and you have other responsibilities and can't afford to get your ass kicked, by all means get other forms of carry working first.

I still need to buy a smaller carry gun for summer, it's hard to conceal a full frame without wearing a baggy vest or sweater.

I like Colorado. My winter carry guns are my summer carry guns. It's a biatch and a half to conceal my GP100, fortunately I never have to.
 
2010-06-14 02:25:20 PM  
Pfactor: I can't even picture how that would work. Do you have to tilt your head to one side or do you use a weaver stance and blade your body the "opposite" way?

/"cross dominant" sounds like a position from the catholic priest's kama sutra


With an isometric stance you would tilt the pistol about 45 degrees toward the dominant eye, same with normal dominance and weak hand shooting. If I were to shoot left handed I'd tilt my pistol 45 degrees right and sight normally. Note that it's a 45 degree tilt and not "gangsta" tilt.

At least that's how I was taught to shoot with my weak hand assuming my right hand was disabled. I'm sure there's other schools of thought as well as other techniques.
 
2010-06-14 02:27:45 PM  
Pfactor: I can't even picture how that would work. Do you have to tilt your head to one side or do you use a weaver stance and blade your body the "opposite" way?

It's not hard at all with Isosceles. Both hands and the gun are centered out in front of me, so it's just a matter of turning my head to the left to get my right eye behind the sights.

I just realized that when I shoot Weaver, I use the same stance and head position as a righty but put my right hand on top of my left. Funny that no instructor has ever commented on that.

If I ever did much one handed bullseye style shooting it could be a problem, but I don't.
 
2010-06-14 02:27:51 PM  
Polly Ester: Good. Law enforcement should have to abide by the same gun laws as other citizens.

I can heartily agree on this. If you deny citizens the ability to own fully automatic firearms, then the police should have to follow those very same rules. It's wrong for the government to have a significant advantage in firepower.
 
2010-06-14 02:28:03 PM  
Witchydiva: /delurk

Holy crap it's a Wichydiva!

Noticeably F.A.T.: I like Colorado. My winter carry guns are my summer carry guns. It's a biatch and a half to conceal my GP100, fortunately I never have to.

I currently carry the full frame IWB in 80+ degree heat and 97% humidity. It's not bad, but I'd rather be able to wear a lighter cover garment than a heavy knit cotton polo.
 
2010-06-14 02:30:08 PM  
stonicus: I've lived and grown up in my area for over 30 years. Never once have I been in a situation where I felt a gun was needed. All of my friends that do not carry guns, not once has any of them ever said to me "man, I wish I had a gun last night."

Yeah, nobody ever does, because when they would have said "I wish I had a gun last night" it probably means they're dead today.

stonicus: One friend ended up pulling his out on some dude because he had been having a yelling match with his girl. My friend felt it his duty to play Mr. Hero, and it ended up with him pointing a gun at someone who had done him no harm.

Anyone who thinks it's ok to draw on someone for yelling shouldn't be armed, and they probably shouldn't have a driver's license either.

stonicus: Don't know anyone else, but the people I know that carry a gun do it because they love the thought of being able to kill someone someday.

I've known many gun owners, and exactly zero want to kill anyone. However, given the choice of their own lives, and the life of someone threatening them with deadly force, they'll choose their own.
 
2010-06-14 02:31:18 PM  
Squiggly_Person: Collectors will have guns scattered about the house as though they were knick-knacks.

I laugh because it's true. It takes effort on my part to collect them all up and put them back in the safe.

Not so worried about the long guns though.

freidog: So until now it was perfectly legal to carry an unlicensed firearm in the parks?

The state doesn't require licenses for firearms to the point that you can't license one if you want to; they have no system.

In most parts of the USA, the firearm is unlicensed/unregistered(with the state, you might want to register it with the company for warranty service), it's the person carrying it who is licensed if they want to legally carry concealed. In two states even that is legal as long as you can legally own/possess firearms. IE not a felon or been legally declared insane.

Dirtybird971: I don't care if I can't carry a weapon into a PA park, but FARK YOU!!!! if you think you can stop me from smoking in a OPEN AIR PARK..I have every right to be there too. Keep up wind and it'll be ok...oh and don't breathe/eat/drink because everything will give you cancer just as assuredly.

Personally, I'm all for allowing you to smoke as long as you follow two rules:
1. Before you discard, PUT IT OUT. I've had to respond to THREE fires this year(volunteer fire department) due to this.
2. Matter of fact; DON'T DISCARD IT!!! Keep a baggy or something and discard your butts in the trash. I hate litter, period.
 
2010-06-14 02:32:44 PM  
Squiggly_Person: pippi longstocking: WTF is wrong with American's that they feel they need to be armed at all times?

Really? Seriously? The extent of most people's violent encounters involve bar fights and playgrounds when they were kids....AH...OIC...

I live in Alabama, and I only know a few people who own guns. I do know one guy who owns a pistol he bought on the street from some random guy, and he gave that gun to a friend to keep for him. When asked why he bought the gun if he doesn't need it, never uses it and doesn't even have possession of it (he was afraid his mom would find it...) he just shrugged his shoulders and said "cause you gotta have one to survive out there", whatever the fark that means.

People who own guns here are generally
1) collectors
2) crazy militia people
3) gang members
4) hunters
5) cops
6) people who listen to rap
7) people concerned for their safety

List is organized based on how many guns these people are more likely to have. A concerned citizen might have a pistol in their closet or drawer or something. Collectors will have guns scattered about the house as though they were knick-knacks.

The really funny thing is that most of the guns floating around out there killing people on the street are guns that people stole by breaking into someone else's house while they weren't there. People will leave their guns in plain sight instead of locking them up.


I have found that the people that own the widest variety and largest number of guns are shooters. People that just like to go to the range and target shoot. They tend to like variety.

As far as banning guns from any particular place you only stop those that obey the law and aren't part of the problem anyway. Those that are going into somewhere to commit a more serious crime(robbery, murder, rape, etc) certainly aren't going to be deterred by the potential penalty of a lesser crime(unlicensed possession).
 
2010-06-14 02:34:18 PM  
knightofargh: Pfactor: I can't even picture how that would work. Do you have to tilt your head to one side or do you use a weaver stance and blade your body the "opposite" way?

/"cross dominant" sounds like a position from the catholic priest's kama sutra

With an isometric stance you would tilt the pistol about 45 degrees toward the dominant eye, same with normal dominance and weak hand shooting. If I were to shoot left handed I'd tilt my pistol 45 degrees right and sight normally. Note that it's a 45 degree tilt and not "gangsta" tilt.

At least that's how I was taught to shoot with my weak hand assuming my right hand was disabled. I'm sure there's other schools of thought as well as other techniques.


Now I get it - that makes sense.
 
2010-06-14 02:34:20 PM  
knightofargh: Agreed. Irresponsible is probably a touch harsh. Would you agree that in some sections of the country "inadvisable" sums it up better? If only I could retract that quickly typed statement.

In my instance the jack boot of the law would step lightly upon me at my old residence 15 miles from where I now reside, anywhere within 5 miles of my work would be a tazering and false arrest and LEOs would ignore me within a couple miles of my current residence since they know me. It really gets down to a YMMV status. I still need to buy a smaller carry gun for summer, it's hard to conceal a full frame without wearing a baggy vest or sweater.


Since you're in Cincy, I can see how that might happen. Imagine how much fun I'd have in Columbus, especially near campus, were I to open carry?

I agree with Jesse's point that carrying openly isn't a bad thing. In fact, it's likely a good thing. I'd like to think that some sort of outreach to the police would be advisable first, though. Not so much of a "I'm asking your permission" but more of a "here's the law, what I'm allowed to do, and I will be doing it". If done properly, politely, etc., you should be fine.

Of course you still may end up being a bit of an activist if you do get unduly hassled. I'd have to read up first to see if one is allowed to have a CCW license and still openly carry. If that doesn't break any laws that might be the best overall option - that way when they start searching your wallet they can find the license and will (hopefully) realize that they're making a mistake.
 
2010-06-14 02:43:59 PM  
ronaprhys: Since you're in Cincy, I can see how that might happen. Imagine how much fun I'd have in Columbus, especially near campus, were I to open carry?

You'd get a polite curb stomping from the Columbus PD, but probably no tazer. Maybe a bit of mace though. If the LEO was actually on his game he'd strike up a conversation with you and not try to arrest you. I don't give the LEOs in Cincinnati that much credit though.

Noticeably F.A.T.: Damn, and you were doing so good up to that point. The little dick line is played out.

It is? I guess I'll have to clean and maintain my firearms after I drive home in my WRX before I drive 26 minutes to the gym. I'm not compensating.
 
2010-06-14 02:44:23 PM  
ronaprhys: knightofargh: Agreed. Irresponsible is probably a touch harsh. Would you agree that in some sections of the country "inadvisable" sums it up better? If only I could retract that quickly typed statement.

I'd have to read up first to see if one is allowed to have a CCW license and still openly carry. If that doesn't break any laws that might be the best overall option - that way when they start searching your wallet they can find the license and will (hopefully) realize that they're making a mistake.


IANAL and all that...

You can find a lot of good info at http://ohioccwforums.org. I think that exact question was tossed around quite a bit but the end result is that, in Ohio, one does not affect the other except for the places where open carry is disallowed by law (e.g. in a vehicle).

In other words I can have a concealed handgun IWB (given that I have a license to do so) while open carrying another handgun and as long as I don't get in a vehicle or other "prohibited zone" I'm perfectly legal. I can (and do) open carry sometimes even though I have a permit for concealment. I usually carry concealed but no law forces me to do so (until I get in my car, anyway).

As an aside, Ohio law gives us a responsibility to notify LEO ASAP during a law enforcement stop. If you wait until they dig through your wallet they will arrest you for failing to notify. Note that the notification is only required if you are actually armed at the time of the law enforcement stop.

/Again, IANAL
//Only valid for Ohio, YMMV
 
2010-06-14 02:46:54 PM  
knightofargh: Witchydiva: /delurk

Holy crap it's a Wichydiva!


I've been hiding under a rock for a while. I do have a new 1911 to show for it, though:

sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net

(please excuse the fuzzy pic, will take a better one soon)
 
2010-06-14 02:47:02 PM  
Pfactor: Now I get it - that makes sense.

Meh, JesseL explained it better in less words. Plus I typoed, I meant Isosceles stance...

ronaprhys: I'd have to read up first to see if one is allowed to have a CCW license and still openly carry.

Forgot to address that. To my knowledge it is legal even with a CCW permit. IANAL so ask a lawyer, preferably one that specializes in Castle law and self-defense shootings.
 
2010-06-14 02:47:23 PM  
idesofmarch: I saw the headline and knew, KNEW, it had to be Lackawanna. There might as well be a Lackawanna tag...

Really? My guesses would have been Philadelphia, Bucks, Montgomery, Delaware, etc. Not somewhere in the Poconos.
 
2010-06-14 02:51:01 PM  
Witchydiva: I do have a new 1911 to show for it, though:

Nice! I need to get some decent pics of my newest toys.
 
2010-06-14 02:52:03 PM  
Pfactor: //Only valid for Ohio, YMMV

You forgot to mention the old school "buckeye tuck" that only got fixed after three or so years. It was illegal to have your legally carried firearm concealed in a car, you had to have it openly displayed in a holster on your person while in the car, even though you were only allowed to carry it in the car by virtue of your CCW since any firearm in a car is defacto concealed.

Witchydiva: I've been hiding under a rock for a while. I do have a new 1911 to show for it, though:

I'm jealous. I'm joining the real world and sourcing an AR-15 pattern with my spring bonus this year. I'm not going to be just a pistol and shotgun guy any more.
 
2010-06-14 02:54:01 PM  
is that a CBOB, or the new VBOB, cant really tell the size from the pic. I think i see a rail so I'm guessing VBOB, or a bobbed gun from another maker
 
2010-06-14 02:57:07 PM  
pippi longstocking: WTF is wrong with American's that they feel they need to be armed at all times?

Really? Seriously? The extent of most people's violent encounters involve bar fights and playgrounds when they were kids....AH...OIC...


Look at the profile. This person is from El Paso Texas. Not only is TX a gun happy state like no other, El Paso is across the river from one of the most violent Mexican cities. I bet this troll is packing just in case the computer gets a little uppity.

/gun owner planning a hunt in a national forest this fall.
//does not believe there is any animal, in the lower 48, scary enough to carry a loaded firearm around "just in case."
 
2010-06-14 02:58:49 PM  
adamscr: is that a CBOB, or the new VBOB, cant really tell the size from the pic. I think i see a rail so I'm guessing VBOB, or a bobbed gun from another maker

Neither. Built from the white, hand-ground bobtail on a Caspian frame.
 
2010-06-14 03:00:18 PM  
davidab:
//does not believe there is any animal, in the lower 48, scary enough to carry a loaded firearm around "just in case."


Not one? Not one single animal in the lower 48? You can't think of a single one?
 
2010-06-14 03:02:20 PM  
davidab: //does not believe there is any animal, in the lower 48, scary enough to carry a loaded firearm around "just in case."

That's nice for you.

For myself, I don't particularly relish having to deal with so much as a rabid raccoon with a stick or a rock. Of course I'll survive either way, but I think I'll come out a little better if I use the right tool.
 
2010-06-14 03:04:18 PM  
Witchydiva: knightofargh: Witchydiva: /delurk

Holy crap it's a Wichydiva!

I've been hiding under a rock for a while. I do have a new 1911 to show for it, though:

(please excuse the fuzzy pic, will take a better one soon)


We will now have a reading from the Holy Gospel according to John.

" 1 In the beginning was the 1911, and the 1911 was THE pistol, and it was good. And behold the Lord said, "Thou shalt not muck with my disciple John's design for it is good and it workith. For John made the 1911, and lo all of his weapons, from the designs which I, the Lord, gave him upon the mountain."

2 "And shouldst thou muck with it, and hang all manner of foul implements upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely have malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to harm."

3 And as the ages passed men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911. The tribe of the gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide releases upon the 1911 and their metal smiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clearness of mind being clouded by lust.

4 Their artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911 and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo, the artisans didst charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911 so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it.

5 And lo, they didst install adjustable sights, which are an abomination unto the Lord. For they doth break and lose their zero when thou dost need true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle. "

Amen.
 
2010-06-14 03:10:55 PM  
davidab: does not believe there is any animal, in the lower 48, scary enough to carry a loaded firearm around "just in case

angry naked apes
 
2010-06-14 03:10:56 PM  
 
2010-06-14 03:26:38 PM  
Polly Ester: Good. Law enforcement should have to abide by the same gun laws as other citizens.

While I agree with your statement, I want to take it to the next level. Its not just gun laws the cops should have to follow like the rest of us. While I understand they may need to speed for instance, it should be mandatory thatthey have lights a flashing at a minimum. Off the top of my head, other then that they need to follow the same damn laws I have to follow.
 
2010-06-14 03:32:31 PM  
davidab: pippi longstocking: WTF is wrong with American's that they feel they need to be armed at all times?

Really? Seriously? The extent of most people's violent encounters involve bar fights and playgrounds when they were kids....AH...OIC...

Look at the profile. This person is from El Paso Texas. Not only is TX a gun happy state like no other, El Paso is across the river from one of the most violent Mexican cities. I bet this troll is packing just in case the computer gets a little uppity.

/gun owner planning a hunt in a national forest this fall.
//does not believe there is any animal, in the lower 48, scary enough to carry a loaded firearm around "just in case."


Are you farking serious? See, this is why I talk shiat like I do here, it's filled with idiots.

Look at this clown. he's actually serious.
 
2010-06-14 03:56:17 PM  
Witchydiva: knightofargh: Witchydiva: /delurk

Holy crap it's a Wichydiva!

I've been hiding under a rock for a while. I do have a new 1911 to show for it, though:



(please excuse the fuzzy pic, will take a better one soon)


Will you marry me?
 
2010-06-14 04:01:48 PM  
Law is invalid on it's face.

From Pennsylvania's Uniform Firearms Act at 18 Pa.C.S.A. § 6120:

(a) General rule.--No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth.
 
2010-06-14 04:06:27 PM  
el wharrrgarblo: davidab: pippi longstocking: WTF is wrong with American's that they feel they need to be armed at all times?

Really? Seriously? The extent of most people's violent encounters involve bar fights and playgrounds when they were kids....AH...OIC...

Look at the profile. This person is from El Paso Texas. Not only is TX a gun happy state like no other, El Paso is across the river from one of the most violent Mexican cities. I bet this troll is packing just in case the computer gets a little uppity.

/gun owner planning a hunt in a national forest this fall.
//does not believe there is any animal, in the lower 48, scary enough to carry a loaded firearm around "just in case."

Are you farking serious? See, this is why I talk shiat like I do here, it's filled with idiots.

Look at this clown. he's actually serious.


We should introduce him to a rabid badger, or perhaps a Mountain Lion or Hungry Wolf and see how he feels after they're done.
 
2010-06-14 04:11:42 PM  
Big Man On Campus: Wait, what? The gun is supposed to apply for the license? And all this time I thought talking to my weapon to teach it english was a bad idea.

Careful, it's a short step from there to the gun loading itself with ammunition and going out and shooting people all on its own.

Do you REALLY want to give the anti-gun nuts something legitimate to garbl their wharr's over? :)
 
2010-06-14 04:20:30 PM  
dittybopper:
5 And lo, they didst install adjustable sights, which are an abomination unto the Lord. For they doth break and lose their zero when thou dost need true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle. "

Amen.


I know, I know. But I found out how hard it is to aim when it is dark, and wanted night sights. It looks more adjustable than it is (thanks, Loctite).
 
2010-06-14 04:22:11 PM  
davidab: does not believe there is any animal, in the lower 48, scary enough to carry a loaded firearm around "just in case."

What? I don't bring a gun camping, but if it were convenient I'd probably prefer to, depending on the area. I'm not too worried about running into a bear/mountain lion/wolf/etc, but I acknowledge these are things that are around and that would probably be able to seriously harm me if they decided to.
 
2010-06-14 04:27:40 PM  
you have pee hands: idesofmarch: I saw the headline and knew, KNEW, it had to be Lackawanna. There might as well be a Lackawanna tag...

Really? My guesses would have been Philadelphia, Bucks, Montgomery, Delaware, etc. Not somewhere in the Poconos.


Part of my job involves working in the Scranton and Wilkes-Barre communities, and this just smacked of Lackawanna.
 
2010-06-14 04:28:06 PM  
dittybopper: Witchydiva: knightofargh: Witchydiva: /delurk

Holy crap it's a Wichydiva!

I've been hiding under a rock for a while. I do have a new 1911 to show for it, though:

(please excuse the fuzzy pic, will take a better one soon)

We will now have a reading from the Holy Gospel according to John.

" 1 In the beginning was the 1911, and the 1911 was THE pistol, and it was good. And behold the Lord said, "Thou shalt not muck with my disciple John's design for it is good and it workith. For John made the 1911, and lo all of his weapons, from the designs which I, the Lord, gave him upon the mountain."

2 "And shouldst thou muck with it, and hang all manner of foul implements upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely have malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to harm."

3 And as the ages passed men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911. The tribe of the gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide releases upon the 1911 and their metal smiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clearness of mind being clouded by lust.

4 Their artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911 and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo, the artisans didst charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911 so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it.

5 And lo, they didst install adjustable sights, which are an abomination unto the Lord. For they doth break and lose their zero when thou dost need true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle. "

Amen.


Sandpaper the palm of your hand just to toughen it up, etc.

That still makes me laugh.
 
2010-06-14 04:38:40 PM  
davidab: //does not believe there is any animal, in the lower 48, scary enough to carry a loaded firearm around "just in case."

I ran into a pissed-off bighorn sheep when hiking one time, with nothing more than a CO2 powered airsoft pistol at my disposal, so I'm getting a kick out of this reply.

/know how I know you're dumb?
 
2010-06-14 04:56:09 PM  
8Draw: Lost Thought 00: PA hasn't seen any mountain lions for fifty someodd years

They're rare, but there are still mountain lions in PA.

That said, I think the odds of running into one here are so low you'd have to be retarded to arm yourself specifically for that purpose.


I almost ran into one and the gun didn't make me feel a whole lot safer. If you do run into one the gun may help but make sure you bring a change of underwear. We do still have them and they are rare. I don't think I'd be too worried about them though.
 
2010-06-14 06:32:38 PM  
Lost Thought 00: BHShaman:

PA hasn't seen any mountain lions for fifty someodd years


There are still plenty of bears, bobcats, and raccoons in Pennsylvania.

slykens1: Law is invalid on it's face.

From Pennsylvania's Uniform Firearms Act at 18 Pa.C.S.A. § 6120:

(a) General rule.--No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth.


As I'm sure Kim Stolfer, who forced Westmoreland County to dump their anti-gun laws in parks is well aware. And if he isn't, he should be embarrassed to be the chairman of any state wide gun rights group. He doesn't need a federal civil rights suit. This law is completely and totally unenforceable as you have so correctly noted.
 
2010-06-14 06:36:12 PM  
DantesDiscoInferno: He doesn't need a federal civil rights suit. This law is completely and totally unenforceable as you have so correctly noted.

The law isn't unenforceable. It's just invalid. An unenforceable law would be one that conflicts with physical reality.

I kind of assumed the suit would be the result of any attempt to enforce the law.
 
2010-06-14 06:40:06 PM  
JesseL:
The law isn't unenforceable. It's just invalid. An unenforceable law would be one that conflicts with physical reality.

I kind of assumed the suit would be the result of any attempt to enforce the law.


It's unenforceable in the sense that no district attorney who wants his ass to remain intact is going to try to bring up anyone on charges under that law.

The Allegheny County commissioners and the mayor of Pittsburgh tried to do something similar here, and the DA flat out told them that he wasn't going to even attempt to charge anyone under such a law because he'd be in violation of state law.
 
2010-06-14 07:04:46 PM  
BHShaman: PA is rumored to have Mt. Lions. Would you want to be walking through a park unarmed when you could be attacked by a lion?

...though no one's sen one in the wild since 1962.

Hell even the one at the Philly Zoo is usually hiding at the back of its enclosure.

/mountain lions don't like people
 
2010-06-14 07:46:12 PM  
If there's no licensing system in place, then banning all unlicensed guns is a violation of the right to bear arms, since it effectively means you can't.
 
2010-06-14 08:19:53 PM  
freidog: So until now it was perfectly legal to carry an unlicensed firearm in the parks?

There is no mechanism to register a gun in Pennsylvania. Even if you went to the police and expressly requested to register your guns they wouldn't know what to do because it's not possible.

And that's a good thing, if you ask me.
 
2010-06-14 08:28:20 PM  
Noticeably F.A.T.: freidog: Now see, I would have just assumed in most places you would need some sort of certification before being allowed to roam around crowded public places with a loaded weapon.

An you'd assume wrong.


No, he wouldn't assume wrong. While open carry is legal (established by the now-dead, infamous Meleanie Hain), it is very rare and usually results in all kinds of police involvement. Typically a person carrying a weapon has a concealed carry permit, which must be applied for in person at the county sheriff's office.

While it is exceptionally rare to see someone openly carrying, there are many thousands of people (although precise numbers are elusive) that have permits, and of those a large percentage carries daily. If you live in Pennsylvania and you're out and about the odds are very good that you pass by or interact with someone who at that very moment is carrying a handgun.
 
2010-06-14 08:35:18 PM  
Adolf Oliver Nipples: No, he wouldn't assume wrong. While open carry is legal (established by the now-dead, infamous Meleanie Hain), it is very rare and usually results in all kinds of police involvement. Typically a person carrying a weapon has a concealed carry permit, which must be applied for in person at the county sheriff's office.

While it is exceptionally rare to see someone openly carrying, there are many thousands of people (although precise numbers are elusive) that have permits, and of those a large percentage carries daily. If you live in Pennsylvania and you're out and about the odds are very good that you pass by or interact with someone who at that very moment is carrying a handgun.


So, he would be correct in assuming that you would need some sort of certification before being allowed to roam around crowded public places with a loaded weapon when in fact you don't need any? Because that's what we were talking about, not if open carry is common.
 
2010-06-14 08:56:46 PM  
If answering to police and maybe having to retain a lawyer is your goal, open carry is a perfectly legal and legitimate way to carry a weapon in Pennsylvania. I'll leave that up to you to decide if it's worth it or not.
 
2010-06-14 08:59:29 PM  
Adolf Oliver Nipples: If answering to police and maybe having to retain a lawyer is your goal, open carry is a perfectly legal and legitimate way to carry a weapon in Pennsylvania. I'll leave that up to you to decide if it's worth it or not.

Getting hassled in PA for open carry doesn't change the fact that that in most places you can in fact walk around carrying a gun without any certification, and that you'd be wrong to assume otherwise.
 
2010-06-15 01:18:18 AM  
theBigBigEye: pippi longstocking: WTF is wrong with American's that they feel they need to be armed at all times?

Really? Seriously? The extent of most people's violent encounters involve bar fights and playgrounds when they were kids....AH...OIC...

Yeah, because I can see *all* home invasions going like this:

Burglar: *sneaks into victim's bedroom to steal/kill*

Victim: *wakes up* Huh? Who are you?!

Burglar: I'm gonna steal your stuff, then kill you for teh lulz!

Victim: Nuh-uh-uh! Nuh-uh-uh! *finger wags* That is bad! Very bad, bad, bad!

Burglar: *hangs head* Ohh, shucks! I guess that is bad. Okay, I'm gonna go now. Buh-bye! *leaves quickly*


I'm sure anyone trying to rob you will let you go get their gun without doing a damn thing. Keep living in a movie cowboy.
 
2010-06-15 10:31:04 AM  
pippi longstocking
I'm sure anyone trying to rob you will let you go get their gun without doing a damn thing. Keep living in a movie cowboy.


Well if the gun in up in your closet in a safe, disassembled, with the ammo in a separate safe then yes, thou art farked.

If its in your nightstand or better yet under the pillow, he art farked.
 
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