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(Lexington Herald Leader)   "This current brand of aggressive atheism is just another form of fundamentalism. These particular atheists are zealots on the subject of faith who see no shadings of gray, only black and white"   (kentucky.com) divider line 1884
    More: Interesting, history of atheism, grey, Herald-Leader, circumstantial evidence, Christopher Hitchens, Trinity, other Christians, The God Delusion  
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14631 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Jun 2010 at 6:41 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-06-12 02:02:25 PM
FTA: If you weigh the circumstantial evidence for and against the existence of God, there's about as much evidence on one side as the other.

Umm...No.
 
2010-06-12 02:27:06 PM
i105.photobucket.com
 
2010-06-12 02:34:01 PM
I wouldn't go so far as to call them zealots. I doubt they are willing to commit mass suicide rather than surrender to the Romans.
 
2010-06-12 02:35:03 PM
I feel sorry for people like this. They are so dependent upon faith as a support system and a fall guy for the bad stuff that happens, that they cannot even allow that someone else has no faith. They refuse to even acknowledge someone is even capable of having no faith. They then say that atheism is a religion/faith and it soothes them that they now have made it possible to see only what they want to see and not see what really is. Reality can be scary.

Religious faith is a belief in a supernatural source of creation... god/allah/whatever.

I do not believe in god or any supernatural source of creation. I have no faith. I have no religion. Nor do I want any.

I do believe that our US constitution is correct in guaranteeing a religious freedom and I will grant anyone the right to believe in things I don't, though I lose respect for them in direct proportion to how fundamentalist they are. It's when they start hurting people or trying to force people to believe THEIR way that I get biatchy.

I always liked what Stephen King wrote

The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance... or change. Once such incantatory phrases like "we see now through a glass darkly" and "mysterious are the ways He chooses His wonders to perform" are mastered, logic can be happily tossed out the window. Religious mania is one of the few infallible ways of responding to the world's vageries, because it totally eliminates pure accident. To the true religious maniac, it's ALL on purpose. - Stephen King
 
2010-06-12 02:35:09 PM
That's because the only atheists you hear from are the loud obnoxious assholes. Much like the religious. The normal, sane people are shaking their heads and keeping their mouths shut.

/atheist
//don't care what you believe so long as you keep it to yourself
 
2010-06-12 02:45:43 PM
Kasira: That's because the only atheists you hear from are the loud obnoxious assholes. Much like the religious. The normal, sane people are shaking their heads and keeping their mouths shut.

/atheist


Word.
 
2010-06-12 02:51:22 PM
I'm not sure what grey area there can be in, "there is no god".
 
2010-06-12 02:55:44 PM
Barfmaker: I'm not sure what grey area there can be in, "there is no god".


Exactly! "Belief in God" is really a binary thing, it's either present or it's not present. I can't even figure out what a "gray area" would mean in this context.

Maybe belief in God from the waist down, but not the top half? Believe on even numbered days but not on odd days? What?
 
2010-06-12 02:58:19 PM
so long as you pay your taxes, I don't care what you say about religion.
 
2010-06-12 03:02:58 PM
Weaver95: so long as you pay your taxes, I don't care what you say about religion.

Well, see, there's this hitch ...
 
2010-06-12 03:07:12 PM
kmmontandon: Weaver95: so long as you pay your taxes, I don't care what you say about religion.

Well, see, there's this hitch ...


so you're saying that members of a church don't have to pay taxes? because i'm pretty sure that they do. same for atheists. i'm pretty positive they pay taxes as well.
 
2010-06-12 03:26:41 PM
If you weigh the circumstantial evidence for and against the existence of God, there's about as much evidence on one side as the other.

WTF does that even mean?

Your evidence "for" God: show me it.
 
2010-06-12 03:28:15 PM
Relatively Obscure: If you weigh the circumstantial evidence for and against the existence of God, there's about as much evidence on one side as the other.

WTF does that even mean?

Your evidence "for" God: show me it.


ok, but you have to show your evidence 'against' God as well.
 
2010-06-12 03:28:40 PM
To add, his roundabout way of saying "nobody likes an asshole" I can respect.
 
2010-06-12 03:29:04 PM
When I turn on my TV, I can watch my choice of at least 12 full time, 24 hour religious networks. When I can peruse 12 networks promoting atheism then we can talk about "aggressive atheism". I get flyers on my door or in the mail from a church at least once a week. So again, when I get atheistic mailers and door flyers once a week, we can discuss overly aggressive atheism.

FFS, the dude can only pinpoint 2 books and 1 movie in his little rant. And of course, he's writing it in the Faith and Values section of the paper. I'm pretty sure there's no companion section of the paper written for non-believers to promote their beliefs.
 
2010-06-12 03:29:21 PM
Weaver95: ok, but you have to show your evidence 'against' God as well.

Actually, I meant to put that up there, too.
 
2010-06-12 03:31:34 PM
Relatively Obscure: Weaver95: ok, but you have to show your evidence 'against' God as well.

Actually, I meant to put that up there, too.


God, I can't think straight today. I meant to put that up there in that there's no reason to provide evidence 'against' God. WTF sense does that make?
 
2010-06-12 03:33:43 PM
Weaver95: Relatively Obscure: If you weigh the circumstantial evidence for and against the existence of God, there's about as much evidence on one side as the other.

WTF does that even mean?

Your evidence "for" God: show me it.

ok, but you have to show your evidence 'against' God as well.


Jersey Shore. Any of the Real Housewives television series. Clowns. Jon and Kate Gosselin. The 6th season of Lost. Televangelists. Bell Peppers. Nickelback
 
2010-06-12 03:36:22 PM
Peter von Nostrand: Jersey Shore. Any of the Real Housewives television series. Clowns. Jon and Kate Gosselin. The 6th season of Lost. Televangelists. Bell Peppers. Nickelback

that explains lucifer.
 
2010-06-12 03:37:25 PM
Weaver95: Relatively Obscure: If you weigh the circumstantial evidence for and against the existence of God, there's about as much evidence on one side as the other.

WTF does that even mean?

Your evidence "for" God: show me it.

ok, but you have to show your evidence 'against' God as well.


I am by no means someone who is skilled in religious or philosophical dogma, but isn't there that whole quadfectra of powers thing that makes no sense? Like, it's impossible to be all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good, etc etc?
 
2010-06-12 03:39:16 PM
MissFeasance: Weaver95: Relatively Obscure: If you weigh the circumstantial evidence for and against the existence of God, there's about as much evidence on one side as the other.

WTF does that even mean?

Your evidence "for" God: show me it.

ok, but you have to show your evidence 'against' God as well.

I am by no means someone who is skilled in religious or philosophical dogma, but isn't there that whole quadfectra of powers thing that makes no sense? Like, it's impossible to be all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good, etc etc?


there's also the point of view that it is impossible for limited, mortal beings to really understand the infinite and divine.
 
2010-06-12 03:44:13 PM
Weaver95: MissFeasance: Weaver95: Relatively Obscure: If you weigh the circumstantial evidence for and against the existence of God, there's about as much evidence on one side as the other.

WTF does that even mean?

Your evidence "for" God: show me it.

ok, but you have to show your evidence 'against' God as well.

I am by no means someone who is skilled in religious or philosophical dogma, but isn't there that whole quadfectra of powers thing that makes no sense? Like, it's impossible to be all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good, etc etc?

there's also the point of view that it is impossible for limited, mortal beings to really understand the infinite and divine.


But in that case, wouldn't it be totally pointless to have an etymology/philosophy that points out the failings of said infinite being?
 
2010-06-12 03:44:55 PM
Peter von Nostrand: When I turn on my TV, I can watch my choice of at least 12 full time, 24 hour religious networks. When I can peruse 12 networks promoting atheism then we can talk about "aggressive atheism". I get flyers on my door or in the mail from a church at least once a week. So again, when I get atheistic mailers and door flyers once a week, we can discuss overly aggressive atheism.


I must be one of those aggressive atheists after all.

Just this morning, I didn't walk around the neighborhood ringing doorbells, passing out blank sheets of paper and asking if I could come inside and be silent. And next week, I'm going to not hang out in front of the university with a blank sandwich board, holding up a megaphone and shutting up whenever people walk past.
 
2010-06-12 03:45:25 PM
MissFeasance: But in that case, wouldn't it be totally pointless to have an etymology/philosophy that points out the failings of said infinite being?

Got me. whenever someone starts talking about infinity and quantum mechanics, I reach for the nearest bottle of rum.
 
2010-06-12 03:46:06 PM
FloydA: I'm going to not hang out in front of the university with a blank sandwich board

Man. I really need to do that somewhere.
 
2010-06-12 03:50:41 PM
Weaver95: Peter von Nostrand: Jersey Shore. Any of the Real Housewives television series. Clowns. Jon and Kate Gosselin. The 6th season of Lost. Televangelists. Bell Peppers. Nickelback

that explains lucifer.


No, that's the New York Yankees.
 
2010-06-12 03:51:05 PM
Relatively Obscure: FloydA: I'm going to not hang out in front of the university with a blank sandwich board

Man. I really need to do that somewhere.


It would be fun, wouldn't it?

i105.photobucket.com
 
2010-06-12 03:54:14 PM
FloydA: Peter von Nostrand: When I turn on my TV, I can watch my choice of at least 12 full time, 24 hour religious networks. When I can peruse 12 networks promoting atheism then we can talk about "aggressive atheism". I get flyers on my door or in the mail from a church at least once a week. So again, when I get atheistic mailers and door flyers once a week, we can discuss overly aggressive atheism.


I must be one of those aggressive atheists after all.

Just this morning, I didn't walk around the neighborhood ringing doorbells, passing out blank sheets of paper and asking if I could come inside and be silent. And next week, I'm going to not hang out in front of the university with a blank sandwich board, holding up a megaphone and shutting up whenever people walk past.


I like to go downtown on Friday and Saturday nights and tell them to live it up now because one day they'll be married and miserable. Oh wait, different thread.
 
2010-06-12 03:54:46 PM
Weaver95: ok, but you have to show your evidence 'against' God as well.

i595.photobucket.com
 
2010-06-12 04:01:29 PM
pics.livejournal.com
 
2010-06-12 04:01:59 PM
This thread went green.

There is no God. QED.
 
2010-06-12 04:03:16 PM
What a new thought.
 
2010-06-12 04:10:22 PM
He can't stand the fact that it is now, if not acceptable to push back against religion, allowable. He wants to go back to stoning atheists as heretics thinking somehow that will quiet the small persistent voice of doubt in his heart.
 
2010-06-12 04:11:03 PM
Relatively Obscure: This thread went green.

There is no God. QED.


Oh, this should be entertaining.

/popcorn
 
2010-06-12 04:15:23 PM
EvilEgg: He can't stand the fact that it is now, if not acceptable to push back against religion, allowable. He wants to go back to stoning atheists as heretics thinking somehow that will quiet the small persistent voice of doubt in his heart.

actually, the impulse towards conformity isn't limited to religion. Even a cursory glance at human history shows that a lot of our socities tend to be very intolerant of new ideas. Communist russia, for example. the south during Reconstruction and the segregation era(s). Germany after WWI.
 
2010-06-12 04:19:31 PM
MissFeasance: wouldn't it be totally pointless to have an etymology/philosophy that points out the failings of said infinite being?

I was skimming TFF, and I read that as "sad infinite being." Makes for a whole different perspective.

I like the idea of a melancholy deity.
 
2010-06-12 04:24:09 PM
Weaver95: Got me. whenever someone starts talking about infinity and quantum mechanics, I reach for the nearest bottle of rum.

Me too. Problem is I'm a physicist.
 
2010-06-12 04:30:35 PM
oldebayer: MissFeasance: wouldn't it be totally pointless to have an etymology/philosophy that points out the failings of said infinite being?

I was skimming TFF, and I read that as "sad infinite being." Makes for a whole different perspective.

I like the idea of a melancholy deity.


Emohim?
 
2010-06-12 04:52:50 PM
revrendjim: Weaver95: Got me. whenever someone starts talking about infinity and quantum mechanics, I reach for the nearest bottle of rum.

Me too. Problem is I'm a physicist.


In chemistry, we call rum a solution.
 
2010-06-12 04:53:15 PM
Makh: revrendjim: Weaver95: Got me. whenever someone starts talking about infinity and quantum mechanics, I reach for the nearest bottle of rum.

Me too. Problem is I'm a physicist.

In chemistry, we call rum a solution.


ba dum pssh
 
2010-06-12 04:58:29 PM
SilentStrider: Makh: revrendjim: Weaver95: Got me. whenever someone starts talking about infinity and quantum mechanics, I reach for the nearest bottle of rum.

Me too. Problem is I'm a physicist.

In chemistry, we call rum a solution.

ba dum pssh


I also helped out you mathematicians out there. Once they see rum as a solution, they don't have to work on the problem any further.
 
2010-06-12 05:00:35 PM
And, of course, this guy does every single thing he accuses the atheists of, tarring them with a broad brush the same way he biatches about them doing with Christians.

Didn't Jesus say something about that? I seem to recall something about motes and eyes...
 
2010-06-12 05:02:00 PM
Weaver95: Relatively Obscure: If you weigh the circumstantial evidence for and against the existence of God, there's about as much evidence on one side as the other.

WTF does that even mean?

Your evidence "for" God: show me it.

ok, but you have to show your evidence 'against' God as well.


Just as soon as you show me your evidence against the Flying Spaghetti Monster, my friend.
 
2010-06-12 05:05:12 PM
anything militant sucks man.
 
2010-06-12 05:25:34 PM
Kirk's_Toupee: anything militant sucks man.

My apathy is pretty militant.


MEH!
 
2010-06-12 05:33:24 PM
Whatever reasons he may have behind this article, as an atheist, I do agree 100% that there are far too many people that can be described exactly as the headline quote states.

"The irony is that this current brand of aggressive atheism is just another form of fundamentalism. These particular atheists are zealots on the subject of faith who see no shadings of gray, only black and white. They're dead-set against religion but weirdly obsessed with it."

But that is certainly not the majority. As with most things, there is a vocal minority which makes the rest of us look like assholes.
 
2010-06-12 05:41:37 PM
My objection to the new atheists isn't that they're atheists.

It's that they strike me as hypocrites, which is the charge they unfailingly level, with mixed justification, against the religious. In opposing religion in the manner they do, they betray themselves as possessing the traits they profess to loathe.

They're smug, dogmatic and mean-spirited. They trot out tired, half-truthful stereotypes, and they cherry-pick historical examples of religious wrongdoing while ignoring the innumerable instances in which the faithful have performed great acts of decency and charity.

They pretend that all Christians are bigots prone to violence. They claim that Christians are by definition illogical bumpkins who mindlessly accept fairy tales.


Perhaps Mr Prather will read this thread and see how wrong he was.
 
2010-06-12 05:46:03 PM
FTA: "It reminds me of Hazel Motes' Church Without Christ in Flannery O'Connor's novel Wise Blood."

No man with a good car needs to be justified.

Where you come from is gone; where you're going, you ain't never been, and where you are ain't no good unless you can get away from it.

Amen
 
2010-06-12 05:47:45 PM
Bevets: Perhaps Mr Prather will read this thread and see how wrong he was.

Yeah, he'll see your post and start typing his sympathetic apology.
 
2010-06-12 05:56:21 PM
HeartBurnKid: Didn't Jesus say something about that? I seem to recall something about motes and eyes...

I prefer the camels and gnats thing, but then, I'm a "foodie."



demanton: FTA: "It reminds me of Hazel Motes' Church Without Christ in Flannery O'Connor's novel Wise Blood."

No man with a good car needs to be justified.

Where you come from is gone; where you're going, you ain't never been, and where you are ain't no good unless you can get away from it.

Amen


There was a wonderful adaptation of that, which I highly recommend, directed by John Huston, with Brad Dourif as Motes. Terrific stuff.
 
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