05-23-03 01:21:43 PM BILERISE

it WILL stimulate the economy you dumb5h1t! the point of everyone getting equal percentage is so that no one gets ticked off bc someone is getting a larger portion of what they pay back. but still, greedy poor liberals want more money back because they feel it is our job to support their lives... BS

yes it is your job to support their lives you blind selfish fool. The money you make is all because of the system working in harmony. The system relies on them as much as it relies on you. America has turned into a complete selfish nation, and people like this are the big reason why.

05-23-03 01:50:43 PM Fenster2

Also, hopefully we won't get another pussy liberal in the Whitehouse to screw things up again.

I just can't believe morons are calling "clinton" a LIBERAL!! LOL!!!

http://www.prospect.org/print/V14/6/meyerson-h.html
Here's an interesting article. Among the observations in it:
"The $1.6 trillion tax cut of 2001 was so advertised, though it didn't really kick in for the better part of the decade, and most of it was targeted to the wealthythe class of Americans least likely to spend it. Since it was enacted, it has stimulated the economy to the tune of 1.7 million jobs lost."
"And jobs are lost: The private sector has shrunk by more than 2.6 million jobs since George W. Bush became president. That is, by any standard, quite a record: No American president has presided over a net loss of jobs during his term in office since Herbert Hoover grappled so disastrously with the real 1929."
I'd like to know where he got the "rich are the least likely to spend it" idea, but I'd like to see anyone prove otherwise. Anyway, the results of this policy are there in the jobs lost...

Sector_9Why is it that everyone with a good job assumes they have it and keep it because they work their ass off and are smarter than everyone else. It's simply not true in every case.

I know more than my share of people that are extremely "fortunate" to have jobs because they are lazy, self-imprortant fark-sticks who feel a college degree in engineering, comp sci, or business entitles them to a good job.

Nor is it true that everyone on the skids is just going through a stretch of bad luck.

hey here is an idea. it is the middle of a work day in the US. why don't all you whiney liberals get off fark and go back to work. work hard get promotions, invest in more education, and then maybe you can be one of the top 1% so you can quit biatching about them. or you could just stay on fark whichever.

back to work now.

Sector_9

What I meant by either way is investing or spending.

a) What about saving it instead? That's a third option you haven't considered. Maybe it would make more sense to hold on to it as cash, and invest once the economy turns around? Why get in now, if the stock market hasn't even bottomed out yet?

b) If they invest, why would they choose to build a factory here, when they can run it more profitably overseas (and hence get a better return)?

c) If they spend, why wouldn't they go out and buy the Lexus or BMW they've always wanted, but never had in the right color? Some of those dollars would end up at the local dealership, but most of those dollars end up overseas as well.

Basically, it's not guaranteed that the extra money will increase economic activity at all. Even if it does, there's a good chance it won't end up in the pockets of Americans anyway.

"You right wingers just refuse to put any blame on your lovable Presidents. Its quite hilarious."

If they consistant in the argument, then they will have to credit Carter for the economic recovery under Reagan...

I wonder if THAT would happen...

"Back to political correctness reeducation camp for you!"

Ohhhhh.....so this is about political correctness. I see. Nuff said. No need to argue with you any longer.

You should know by now, there's no such thing as people who are poor because they are too dumb and/or lazy to work, or people who are rich because they worked their asses off for years and years.

I feel deeply sorry for you and for the leftist that imbedded that philosophy in your tiny little mind.

-this "tax cut", in no way is going to help people find work.

bush is the village idiot of all time.

-followed closely in second by cheney.

this country is going to implode in less than a year.

CruJones -

I find it ironic that your screenname and bio are nothing but references to "RAD," a movie about a self-made BMX biker who busts his ass to get to Helltrack only to be constantly blocked by corporate sponsors who refuse to let him compete. His story IS the story of liberals, trying to stand up for the little guy who hasn't had what John Rawls would call a "fair shot" in life. Your entire existence on this site is based on the principles of smaller business with less power, and fairness and equality across the board, yet YOU say STFU to all of us "whiny liberals" (you misspelled "whiney," by the way).

I say to you, good sir, that you are a hypocrite, and the worst kind, for you are completely ignorant of your hypocrisy. YOU FARKING SUCK, especially for using the word of "Rad" in vain. May Lori Laughlin shiat on your grave.

Only leftists get irritated about how much a person is paid by their customers, a proper redistribution of wealth, just because the sum is so high, yet have no problem with the government raping the taxpayers as a redistribution of wealth scheme in exchange for votes.

I choose what I pay for a product, and if the person at the top of the heap gets payed a heap of money, then that's fine. I don't need the Marxist flavor of the day griping about it. They don't have to buy from the rich if they don't want to.

Big Al - yes it is your job to support their lives you blind selfish fool. The money you make is all because of the system working in harmony. The system relies on them as much as it relies on you.

Please explain. Yeah I know that the reason I have food on my table is because of the farm laborers, cashiers, etc. who make less money than me. BUT THEY MAKE MONEY. Why do they deserve the money that *I* earn on top of that?

I don't go around asking rich people for their money simply because they have more of it than I do. Why should I--what right do I have to feel entitled to their cash simply because they have more of it? And on the same token, why should people poorer than myself feel like they have the right to what I earn?

Everything you said has been proven incorrect above. try again.

prove it

Sector_9 -- I was being extremely sarcastic. Reread my post with that in mind.

Shut_UP-

That will not happen. Carter was a good person but an absolute failure as a president, possibly the worst. He was elected because Nixon should have not been pardoned by Ford. Ford was not reelected because he was party to that deal.

05-23-03 02:50:21 PM Captain_America

hey here is an idea. it is the middle of a work day in the US. why don't all you whiney liberals get off fark and go back to work. work hard get promotions, invest in more education, and then maybe you can be one of the top 1% so you can quit biatching about them. or you could just stay on fark whichever.

No comment even necessary.

ESH
Sector_9Why is it that everyone with a good job assumes they have it and keep it because they work their ass off and are smarter than everyone else. It's simply not true in every case.

You are absolutely right. I think the point is more that you can choose which job you want. You can aquire training and skills in any field, to any extent. You can then choose a lowpaying job or a high paying job. That is why I worked 3 min wage jobs to aquire the training for the job I wanted.

BEN

hmm. interesting points. I dont know enough about it so i cant really argue for or against what you're saying, but thats an interesting perspective which is certainly worth a read.

This tax cut will stimulate the economy about as much as Anna Nicole stimulates my weener.

Almost all of the "conservative" arguemnts so far do nothing but inforce the belief that that was a tax cut to benefit the weathly.

Most of the arguments are that the wealthy should get more tax cuts because they pay more, but I thought this this bill was suppose to be used to stimulate the economy?

hehe, typical liberal spew..

the sky is falling! the sky is falling!

Come on now, Fiscal Prudence?!?!! Bush took the biggest surplus ever and blew it on pork! The first round of tax cuts (remember the 300 dollar checks?) didn't spur the economy. I don't even understand how anyone can argue that Bush's economic plan is going to be the everlasting economic savior for all Americans. Oh, that's right, he's also putting together an economic plan for the Iraqi's, hopefully they'll fare better.

Shut........UP

I'd have to agree. Dont want a flame war, but I havent found any data here that gets close to converting my views.

"That will not happen. Carter was a good person but an absolute failure as a president, possibly the worst"

Except that if you credit Reagan and Bush for Clintons economic growth, while blaming clinton for the recession under Bush, then to be consistant you either have to credit Carter for the econiomic growth under Reagan or blame Nixon for the state of the economy under Carter.

Shut........UP
giving back money will help stimulate the economy. the part about the wealthy getting more is that it is hard to give back money to people who didn't pay it in the first place. that is the conservative argument to the "the tax cut only helps the rich" argument.

Checkmate.

Phillip_Drummond: Good for you (not being sarcastic). Most people aren't like that and the American culture of entitlement pisses me off to no end, whether a person is rich or poor.

giving back money will help stimulate the economy.

Once again... How?

You are assuming that the money will be reinvested, correct?

05-23-03 02:50:21 PM Captain_America

hey here is an idea. it is the middle of a work day in the US. why don't all you whiney liberals get off fark and go back to work. work hard get promotions, invest in more education, and then maybe you can be one of the top 1% so you can quit biatching about them. or you could just stay on fark whichever.

back to work now.

good call...

sorry had to join the thread

Is it just me, or would the breasts of those dark haired beauties in today's annoying SbB add be a wonderful platform off of which to snort cocaine*?

SbB..whata dumbass site "hey, im some local sports DJ, read my blog! What you dont wanna? here look at bimbos in tight shirts!


*NOTE: i dont actually snort cocaine. in my circle of friends that idiom is used to express the more widely used expression "nice tits".

BurnDown99
ok i am not trying to be a smartass here, honest. i saw your location as Clemson. are you a student there? if so have you had a macro-economic course? if you have it will make it easier. just let me know and i will do my best to answer your question.

Father_Jack

Amen brother... I think the same thing every time I open up Fark. Anyone have the "attention whore" picture to post?

"the part about the wealthy getting more is that it is hard to give back money to people who didn't pay it in the first place. that is the conservative argument to the "the tax cut only helps the rich" argument."

Except that giving money back to people who can already afford to buy whatever they want and likely already own everything they need, doesn't fill me with confidence that they will be putting the money back into the services or manufacturing sectors, which is what will stimulate the economy.

Captain_America
hey here is an idea. it is the middle of a work day in the US. why don't all you whiney liberals get off fark and go back to work. work hard get promotions, invest in more education, and then maybe you can be one of the top 1% so you can quit biatching about them. or you could just stay on fark whichever.

back to work now.

Thanks, asshole hypocrite. I, for one, got laid off. Know anybody that's hiring?

-mission accomplished-

what a joke of a president we have.

reagan, bush 1 and bush 2 are more responsible for americas economic downfall than any other people in the modern age.

-conservatism, my ass.

NOBODY IS RIGHT AND HERE IS WHY.

Conservatives, or Republicans (typically), want less money taken from them, less government interference in their daily lives. Understandable. Where that logic fails is that Republicans aren't conservative in that respect. There is just as much Government involvement, if not MORE, under this administration than before. (Uh, hello? Patriot Act anyone?)

Liberals, or Democrats (typically, again) don't mind the money being taken because they think it's going to government programs to help others less fortunate. Not wrong, just misguided, because the programs that are set up are usually so beurocratic that they take 10 months to get any farking thing done for real. So, there's that.

The key: Less taxes, but more subsidies to non-profits that actually make a difference and actually work because you have people working at them that actually give a shiat. That, and direct action philanthropy (remember Upski: Philanthropy is going to be the great art form of the 21st Century!!!!!).

THAT IS ALL.

THANK YOU, please tip your waitress, the 9:30 show is completely different than the 7:30 show.

Why does everybody think the president is the supreme master of the economy, anyway?

Yes, taxation and the political environment has a big effect on the economy, but I'd say the boom during the 90s and subsequent downturn was influenced FAR MORE by the Internet becoming popular and turning people into overnight millionaires followed by tech companies disappearing and the situation coming back to reality than anything done by Clinton or Bush.

Sector_9

I think it's a matter of semantics.

Take the root word if you will,

"FORTUNE"ate -- One having an abundant fortune.

Less-"FORTUNE"ate -- One who has jack squat.

05-23-03 03:09:24 PM Pontechango Captain_America Thanks, asshole hypocrite. I, for one, got laid off. Know anybody that's hiring?

Well, that explains your dislike for a system where jobs are not promoted by government...

LESTERFRESH
The key: Less taxes, but more subsidies to non-profits that actually make a difference and actually work because you have people working at them that actually give a shiat. That, and direct action philanthropy (remember Upski: Philanthropy is going to be the great art form of the 21st Century!!!!!).---


Sounds good to me!

great post.

Hmmm... lets see.

Weak dollar, lower tax burden for the top 1% of the population, increased tax burden on the lower 99% of the population, abyssmal unemployment, peetering out jobless benefits, decreasing government revenue, increasing government spending, decreased production, decreased consumption.

Oh yeah, this has all the makings of an economic recovery... in bizzaro world maybe.

Shut........UP
still you have to understand not everyone is bill gates. people in the 100k (family income) per year range are considered wealthy but they can not afford anything they want. put extra money in their pocket and they will spend it. i think a lot of the misunderstanding is that when people say rich they automaticly think of bill gates. if you look at what the top 10% of tax payers is it is not that high.

LesterFresh:
The exact reason I don't leave my affiliation to any party. I usually will vote by the issue's. It sucks not being able to vote in the primary's but I can still sleep at night.

Reasons the economy is in the toilet correct me if any are inaccurate. Do not bother with the spelling if you had half a brain you can figure out what I mean.

1 Corprate Scandals reducing investor confidence

2 9-11 Terror attacks laying waste to the travel industry

3 Overvalued IT sector gettin its nuts handed to it on a plate

If you wish to add any feel free but which one of these is Bush, Clinton's regans fault... looks to me like none. If you wish to enlighten cite a fuggin source not a party line please, spouting rhetoric is about as informative as a mute vegetable, go play with your other sheep and stop wasteing our time

BurnDown99
Anyone know what this is? Anyone? this is a Laffer Curve.

OK, let's see:
Clinton raised the marginal rate in early 90s, economy soared.
Bush passed the largest tax cut in history two years ago, economy is still in the tank.

Obviously, taxes need to go up to reach the optimum revenue/rate. Elementary to anyone who can figure a derivative.

Kpar90 : 05-23-03 03:09:24 PM Pontechango Captain_America Thanks, asshole hypocrite. I, for one, got laid off. Know anybody that's hiring?

Well, that explains your dislike for a system where jobs are not promoted by government...



Ouch! There's a zinger!

Captain_America

You implying something friend?

I was going to post my reply but

05-23-03 03:08:38 PM Shut........UP

Pretty much sums up how i feel. Now do you want to play the smartass card still, or answer my question like an adult?

Bauer Debate is easy when you do not have to worry about things like facts or sources or even credible information, I ask you WHY. Back up your shiat or go the fark home as you have nothing of value to say when you put it like that

BurnDown99
Anyone know what this is? Anyone? this is a Laffer Curve.

OK, let's see:
Clinton raised the marginal rate in early 90s, economy soared.
Bush passed the largest tax cut in history two years ago, economy is still in the tank.

Obviously, taxes need to go up to reach the optimum revenue/rate. Elementary to anyone who can figure a derivative.


Obivously a Ferris Buller reference went over _someone's_ head.

I even had a picture of Ben Stien to go with it, you ass.

Captain_America

people in the 100k (family income) per year range are considered wealthy but they can not afford anything they want. put extra money in their pocket and they will spend it.

Once again, you are _assuming_ there will be massive spending. I want more than assumption.

Illuminix: Not trying to zing, he's just come out pretty hard on this issue. I think his unemployment is telling.

Reg=dford: Join one party or the other and you can still vote in general elections as you want, but also get to vote in primaries for that party. Just saying you're part of a party does not mean that you have to vote straight ticket every time all the time.