BlippityBleep: loonatic112358: BlippityBleep: loonatic112358:
do you have a car? then convert the damn thing

Ya on my student budget. Maybe I can switch to just ramen instead of getting crazy with the easy mac every once in awhile.

your major then?

Damnit, I troll sometimes and try to keep it anon.

However, since you asked I'm an architecture student. Imma work on all of that sustainable development someday. Scary thought, I know.

ssshhhh!!!

you should study the mods that steve007 has done to his business and house

and i'd take good suggestions for a 60's ranch house

i've got to stop remodeling in my head, i'm making it too expensive

also, you'll be an architect, i now know you'll walk or bus before you shart out money to pay for a damn thing :P

Lt. Cheese Weasel: BGates: The relief wells will be completed around the same time and are a 100% guaranteed solution.

Um, no. Slants into the same resevoir will offer an alternative path for the pressure, it does not guarantee the flow will stop at the broken wellhead.

Um, yes. They drill just above the pay zone so not to have to deal with production issues. Then they pump a heavy mud that will kill the well. They then pump cement. They can then go back to the current well that's leaking and cap it permanently.

looks like its hit oil. Bye Bye visibility

SVenus: Lt. Cheese Weasel: SVenus: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Um, no. Slants into the same resevoir will offer an alternative path for the pressure, it does not guarantee the flow will stop at the broken wellhead.

If you're close enough to the borehole, you flood the reservoir with heavy mud, and that will kill the flowing well. In the case of these relief wells, this first one is scheduled to not even get close to the reservoir, and hit the wellbore far above the problem reservoir(s)

(if I read BPs graphics right)

Forgive the skepticism, it is warranted however.

Completely forgiven. These are the idiots who farked the entire offshore US drilling industry.

i'm pissed at them, the farks may have made my lafe damn hard depending on the fallout of this, being in an engineering support business (cad) in houston, this shiat could be bad for me

Doink_Boink: Tennozan: Ok, so I read the article (seemed mostly full of crap but sure to sell a few copies), but have a question I haven't seen addressed:

Why not suck up the goddamn oil and, you know, refine it & sell it?
You'd think there would be a company that would specialize in extracting oil, refining the impurities from it, and then selling it at an obscene profit? C'mon, it can't be as difficult as winning a land war in Asia?


I have been wondering the same thing, why can't they get some huge vacuums down in front of the plumes that suck out the oil and separate it on the surface? Yes, it would be expensive and require some effort, but if they can attach hoses to it then surely they can place vacuum hoses to suck it up at the source. My guess is they don't want to deal with separating it once it's on the surface.

That's effectively what they're doing now. It's not a vacuum, but it will be a long hose that will collect the oil in a big tanker. As to whether they are going to refine that oil, you'd have to ask BP.

Mista Sparkle: looks like its hit oil. Bye Bye visibility

Wonder how they're going to track their own progress cutting through the pipe.

loonatic112358: also, you'll be an architect, i now know you'll walk or bus before you shart out money to pay for a damn thing :P

Nice!

Whatever happened to the infamous butt plug? We just need to make a really big one and drop it in.

/oblig slashie
//oblig 2nd slashie
///slashie?

loonatic112358: i'm pissed at them, the farks may have made my lafe damn hard depending on the fallout of this, being in an engineering support business (cad) in houston, this shiat could be bad for me

It's not good for any living thing on the planet. But this whole thing now is damage control, and no matter how much hope we have, there's precious little we can do. I'm in the business as well. I've sat on a relief well in the Gulf of Mexico where the initial blowout killed good men. It's a sick feeling.

I dont get it.

as I understand it the blowout preventer had rams that would pinch off the riser if it detected an uncontrolled release (eg the rig detached unexpectedly from the pipe). it failed because somebody let a control panel battery run down, and "test" parts were left in the ram preventing it from working. (based on multiple reports pieced together since the event)



SOOOO.... can anyone tell me why they didnt just send an ROV down and pinch off the pipe ahead of the hole to at least slow down this hot mess?

or am I thinking too simply?

/anyone?
//anyone?
///Beuller... Beuller?

Doink_Boink: Tennozan: Ok, so I read the article (seemed mostly full of crap but sure to sell a few copies), but have a question I haven't seen addressed:

Why not suck up the goddamn oil and, you know, refine it & sell it?
You'd think there would be a company that would specialize in extracting oil, refining the impurities from it, and then selling it at an obscene profit? C'mon, it can't be as difficult as winning a land war in Asia?


I have been wondering the same thing, why can't they get some huge vacuums down in front of the plumes that suck out the oil and separate it on the surface? Yes, it would be expensive and require some effort, but if they can attach hoses to it then surely they can place vacuum hoses to suck it up at the source. My guess is they don't want to deal with separating it once it's on the surface.

The engineering required to do this is extreme under 5000 ft of seawater. Plus vacuums can only draw so much negative pressure. With the ambient pressure at 5000 ft, and the wellhead flowing at 8000 psi, a vacuum might not work so well. Plus you would need a pump to pump the vacuumed oil to the surface.

BlippityBleep: loonatic112358: also, you'll be an architect, i now know you'll walk or bus before you shart out money to pay for a damn thing :P

Nice!

as a draftsperson/cad guy, i've never met an architect who didn't blow his wad on his office, but wasn't cheap everywhere else

of course that was before BIM became a popular word, but I prefer making 3d mechanical models. like right now i've been working on a Al can that holds subsea positioning equipment, no not for this, other stuff

CameraMonkey: I dont get it.

as I understand it the blowout preventer had rams that would pinch off the riser if it detected an uncontrolled release (eg the rig detached unexpectedly from the pipe). it failed because somebody let a control panel battery run down, and "test" parts were left in the ram preventing it from working. (based on multiple reports pieced together since the event)



SOOOO.... can anyone tell me why they didnt just send an ROV down and pinch off the pipe ahead of the hole to at least slow down this hot mess?

or am I thinking too simply?

/anyone?
//anyone?
///Beuller... Beuller?

if i recall, and i've not been following it rabidly, part of the problem was the controls were farked up, and not operating as documented, plus the shear rams only partially deployed and are now stuck

loonatic112358: SVenus: Lt. Cheese Weasel: SVenus: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Um, no. Slants into the same resevoir will offer an alternative path for the pressure, it does not guarantee the flow will stop at the broken wellhead.

If you're close enough to the borehole, you flood the reservoir with heavy mud, and that will kill the flowing well. In the case of these relief wells, this first one is scheduled to not even get close to the reservoir, and hit the wellbore far above the problem reservoir(s)

(if I read BPs graphics right)

Forgive the skepticism, it is warranted however.

Completely forgiven. These are the idiots who farked the entire offshore US drilling industry.

i'm pissed at them, the farks may have made my lafe damn hard depending on the fallout of this, being in an engineering support business (cad) in houston, this shiat could be bad for me

I was even more pissed when I got to work this morning. (I've been off work for the past 2 weeks cause the wife popped out a kid) I walked into the office and saw a company memo posted about this situation. I don't want to say to much at this point, but needless to say, BP could have stopped this before anything happened if they had listened to the test results my company gave them.

CameraMonkey: SOOOO.... can anyone tell me why they didnt just send an ROV down and pinch off the pipe ahead of the hole to at least slow down this hot mess?

or am I thinking too simply?

I've been wondering the same for the past month. I guess those oil fumes are really getting to their brains at this point.

loonatic112358: BlippityBleep: loonatic112358: also, you'll be an architect, i now know you'll walk or bus before you shart out money to pay for a damn thing :P

Nice!

as a draftsperson/cad guy, i've never met an architect who didn't blow his wad on his office, but wasn't cheap everywhere else

of course that was before BIM became a popular word, but I prefer making 3d mechanical models. like right now i've been working on a Al can that holds subsea positioning equipment, no not for this, other stuff

Right on. I love buildings but I love techie stuff, too.

Lt. Cheese Weasel: BGates: Lt. Cheese Weasel: BGates: The relief wells will be completed around the same time and are a 100% guaranteed solution.

Um, no. Slants into the same resevoir will offer an alternative path for the pressure, it does not guarantee the flow will stop at the broken wellhead.

Um, yes. They drill just above the pay zone so not to have to deal with production issues. Then they pump a heavy mud that will kill the well. They then pump cement. They can then go back to the current well that's leaking and cap it permanently.

Proof/pudding, or mud as the case may be. Simple physics tells me the path of least resistance is always best. What if they slant to a fissure that is connected but constricted? Just asking.

I'm not a drilling consultant so I don't know. I can guess that this wouldn't make a difference. If they are logging while drilling (which they usually do when drilling horizontal), they can measure the resistivity of the formation and drill away from connected fissures.

They will case and cement the relief well before pumping also. If they get a good cement job, that shouldn't be a problem. The leaking well had a terrible cement job, which is part of the reason why this happened.

Mr Rusty Shackleford: CameraMonkey: SOOOO.... can anyone tell me why they didnt just send an ROV down and pinch off the pipe ahead of the hole to at least slow down this hot mess?

or am I thinking too simply?

I've been wondering the same for the past month. I guess those oil fumes are really getting to their brains at this point.

The alloys used to make drilling pipe lean toward rigidity over ductility. So, it doesn't pinch very well, it cracks.

BGates: I was even more pissed when I got to work this morning. (I've been off work for the past 2 weeks cause the wife popped out a kid) I walked into the office and saw a company memo posted about this situation. I don't want to say to much at this point, but needless to say, BP could have stopped this before anything happened if they had listened to the test results my company gave them

why does this not surprise me

they didn't give out any reports regarding bp plants in tx city did they?

Lt. Cheese Weasel: BGates: loonatic112358: SVenus: Lt. Cheese Weasel: SVenus: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Um, no. Slants into the same resevoir will offer an alternative path for the pressure, it does not guarantee the flow will stop at the broken wellhead.

If you're close enough to the borehole, you flood the reservoir with heavy mud, and that will kill the flowing well. In the case of these relief wells, this first one is scheduled to not even get close to the reservoir, and hit the wellbore far above the problem reservoir(s)

(if I read BPs graphics right)

Forgive the skepticism, it is warranted however.

Completely forgiven. These are the idiots who farked the entire offshore US drilling industry.

i'm pissed at them, the farks may have made my lafe damn hard depending on the fallout of this, being in an engineering support business (cad) in houston, this shiat could be bad for me

I was even more pissed when I got to work this morning. (I've been off work for the past 2 weeks cause the wife popped out a kid) I walked into the office and saw a company memo posted about this situation. I don't want to say to much at this point, but needless to say, BP could have stopped this before anything happened if they had listened to the test results my company gave them.

Take cover. Whistle blowers get shot first when the crap hits the fan.

My company is bigger than Halliburton so I don't think the CEO is worried. Apparently we had guys out on the rig to run the CBL. The well was kicking pretty good so our guys told them to kill it. BP refused. We called a helo out and went home. Four to six hours later the rig blew up.

loonatic112358: BGates: I was even more pissed when I got to work this morning. (I've been off work for the past 2 weeks cause the wife popped out a kid) I walked into the office and saw a company memo posted about this situation. I don't want to say to much at this point, but needless to say, BP could have stopped this before anything happened if they had listened to the test results my company gave them

why does this not surprise me

they didn't give out any reports regarding bp plants in tx city did they?

No idea on that one.

BGates:
I was even more pissed when I got to work this morning. (I've been off work for the past 2 weeks cause the wife popped out a kid) I walked into the office and saw a company memo posted about this situation. I don't want to say to much at this point, but needless to say, BP could have stopped this before anything happened if they had listened to the test results my company gave them.

whos gonna leak it?

BGates: Lt. Cheese Weasel: BGates: loonatic112358: SVenus: Lt. Cheese Weasel: SVenus: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Um, no. Slants into the same resevoir will offer an alternative path for the pressure, it does not guarantee the flow will stop at the broken wellhead.

If you're close enough to the borehole, you flood the reservoir with heavy mud, and that will kill the flowing well. In the case of these relief wells, this first one is scheduled to not even get close to the reservoir, and hit the wellbore far above the problem reservoir(s)

(if I read BPs graphics right)

Forgive the skepticism, it is warranted however.

Completely forgiven. These are the idiots who farked the entire offshore US drilling industry.

i'm pissed at them, the farks may have made my lafe damn hard depending on the fallout of this, being in an engineering support business (cad) in houston, this shiat could be bad for me

I was even more pissed when I got to work this morning. (I've been off work for the past 2 weeks cause the wife popped out a kid) I walked into the office and saw a company memo posted about this situation. I don't want to say to much at this point, but needless to say, BP could have stopped this before anything happened if they had listened to the test results my company gave them.

Take cover. Whistle blowers get shot first when the crap hits the fan.

My company is bigger than Halliburton so I don't think the CEO is worried. Apparently we had guys out on the rig to run the CBL. The well was kicking pretty good so our guys told them to kill it. BP refused. We called a helo out and went home. Four to six hours later the rig blew up.

Baker Hughes?

BGates: Apparently we had guys out on the rig to run the CBL.

Big blue!

MrSteve007: BlippityBleep: MrSteve007: My household should be largely fossil fuel independent by December - other than used for shipping of the products we buy - and in plastics. Electrified rail would go a long way in minimizing that.

Also, was it the cost-so-much-you-wanted-to-cry scenario that most people think about to go alternative or was it manageable to get there?

We have a fairly small house (960 sq ft + attached garage + 500 sq/ft detached shop), so it wasn't too costly to greatly improve it's performance - on the order of 65% reduction in energy use, while adding A/C, a 2nd freezer, and a home server.

-Vastly increased insulation (R40 attic, R30 crawlspace) = $1,050 (5 year ROI)
-Ductless minisplit heat pump = $3,500 (4 year ROI)

To make up for the remaining electrical use a 3.5 KW PV array should do it (we're in Seattle). I've installed several before, so I can do much of the work myself. My current costs, including mounting and inverter is about $5 a watt, so about $17,500 before 30% back from the feds. So first year cost ~$12,000 for PV.

With the current WA State production incentive (taken from up to 0.5% of utility net profits), I'll get $0.56 a kWh back for using all in-state made panels/equipment. That pegs annual incentive at ~2,100, guaranteed until 2020. That puts my PV ROI at about 5-6 years, with a year 10 profit of about 10k.

As for the car, we're confirmed for an all electric Nissan LEAF, which should arrive in about December. That works out to be ~25,000 (sales tax free in this state), or a $350 lease.

So in all, not cheap, but not crazy expensive either. It's nice to hedge our bets on energy rates today and be largely protected from future rate/gas prices increases.

To add another datapoint, and a slightly different approach in a different state-- we put up 7kW of PV on a 3000sq ft house in Arizona with a massive air conditioning system. Extra insulation was about the same with about the same payoff as MrSteve007 points out. Shade screens on the windows were about $1200, with a payoff in about three years. The PV array was about $40k sticker, but about $9k after incentives. (our power company paid $3 per watt of capacity up front, rather than at a higher monthly credit rate like MrSteve007's power company) Ignoring resale value, our payback period will be about six years at the current price of power in AZ. We're generating more than we use, which leaves a nice surplus for the Nissan LEAF that's on order, at about $25k after incentives.

So again-- it isn't free, but you can run your house and a car on solar for about $35k, including the cost of the car. The PV system will pay for itself in short order, and the car will save you about $1200/year in gas.

btw, the discussion has gotten terribly interesting the last few pages.

i approve.

ncsu_wolfpack: BGates:
I was even more pissed when I got to work this morning. (I've been off work for the past 2 weeks cause the wife popped out a kid) I walked into the office and saw a company memo posted about this situation. I don't want to say to much at this point, but needless to say, BP could have stopped this before anything happened if they had listened to the test results my company gave them.

whos gonna leak it?

I think it might be somewhere on the tubes already. I don't have the memo sitting in front of me so I don't want to misquote something, but I remember there being a link to somewhere.

SVenus: BGates: Apparently we had guys out on the rig to run the CBL.

Big blue!

This.

You can't quit your job... how else will you pay for oil so you can drive to your job?

BGates: SVenus: BGates: Apparently we had guys out on the rig to run the CBL.

Big blue!

This.

isn't that the guys being bought out by the guys i mentioned?

globalwarmingpraiser: BGates: Lt. Cheese Weasel: BGates: Lt. Cheese Weasel: BGates: The relief wells will be completed around the same time and are a 100% guaranteed solution.

Um, no. Slants into the same resevoir will offer an alternative path for the pressure, it does not guarantee the flow will stop at the broken wellhead.

Um, yes. They drill just above the pay zone so not to have to deal with production issues. Then they pump a heavy mud that will kill the well. They then pump cement. They can then go back to the current well that's leaking and cap it permanently.

Proof/pudding, or mud as the case may be. Simple physics tells me the path of least resistance is always best. What if they slant to a fissure that is connected but constricted? Just asking.

I'm not a drilling consultant so I don't know. I can guess that this wouldn't make a difference. If they are logging while drilling (which they usually do when drilling horizontal), they can measure the resistivity of the formation and drill away from connected fissures.

They will case and cement the relief well before pumping also. If they get a good cement job, that shouldn't be a problem. The leaking well had a terrible cement job, which is part of the reason why this happened.

Noone has said this, but because of the lay off in 2009 there are a lot of inexperienced hands in the Gulf. People that weren't ready to be in their position yet are there. This is why I was saying 30 dollar a barrel oil was bad.

I'd almost say it's a guarantee. They had bad circulation and were pumping a really light concrete because of it. There were reports that they had cement blowing out and covering support boats while they were pumping. I'd imagine nat. gas was stringing the light cement out due to not having enough weight in the hole. So it probably strung out up the backside as well.

loonatic112358: BGates: SVenus: BGates: Apparently we had guys out on the rig to run the CBL.

Big blue!

This.

isn't that the guys being bought out by the guys i mentioned?

Baker is buying BJ Services. They were blue also.

loonatic112358: BGates: SVenus: BGates: Apparently we had guys out on the rig to run the CBL.

Big blue!

This.

isn't that the guys being bought out by the guys i mentioned?

If SLB gets bought out by anybody, that would surprise the crap out of me. I don't think anyone can afford them.

Dangit, this thread starts kicking ass and I need to gbtw... I'll have to check later.

did it just get stuck?

loonatic112358: and i'd take good suggestions for a 60's ranch house

Solar shade screens. You're in Texas. It's hot there, and AC is most likely one of your heaviest loads. Something like 40% of the heat energy in a typical house gets in as plain old sunlight just shining right through the windows. The screens aren't bad for visibility-- ours don't seem much different than normal screens. They'll block 80% (or more, depending on type) of the incoming light before it even hits the glass.

This place appears to install them in the Houston area. If you've got unshaded windows that get direct sunlight, this is by far one of the easiest big energy savers in a hot, sunny climate.

globalwarmingpraiser: BGates: Lt. Cheese Weasel: BGates: Lt. Cheese Weasel: BGates: The relief wells will be completed around the same time and are a 100% guaranteed solution.

Um, no. Slants into the same resevoir will offer an alternative path for the pressure, it does not guarantee the flow will stop at the broken wellhead.

Um, yes. They drill just above the pay zone so not to have to deal with production issues. Then they pump a heavy mud that will kill the well. They then pump cement. They can then go back to the current well that's leaking and cap it permanently.

Proof/pudding, or mud as the case may be. Simple physics tells me the path of least resistance is always best. What if they slant to a fissure that is connected but constricted? Just asking.

I'm not a drilling consultant so I don't know. I can guess that this wouldn't make a difference. If they are logging while drilling (which they usually do when drilling horizontal), they can measure the resistivity of the formation and drill away from connected fissures.

They will case and cement the relief well before pumping also. If they get a good cement job, that shouldn't be a problem. The leaking well had a terrible cement job, which is part of the reason why this happened.

Noone has said this, but because of the lay off in 2009 there are a lot of inexperienced hands in the Gulf. People that weren't ready to be in their position yet are there. This is why I was saying 30 dollar a barrel oil was bad.

One more thing I forgot to add. I logged a well recently where they lost circulation and had to do a squeeze job. They pumped 600 sacks of cement. The CBL showed no cement in the well what so ever.

BGates: Baker is buying BJ Services. They were blue also.

fark, i actually don't know which one that is

there's schlumberger, which would be my next guess
as far as i know jacobs doesn't do that sort of thing, stewart and stevenson just makes trucks and coiled tubing equip and just started getting back into rigs(for oilfield), koomey is now part of a larger company, varco and hydril are both part of GE (freaked me out when i noticed that sign change on the way home)

BGates: One more thing I forgot to add. I logged a well recently where they lost circulation and had to do a squeeze job. They pumped 600 sacks of cement. The CBL showed no cement in the well what so ever.

That's what I call lost circulation. Holy moly.

/In other news, this undersea feed probably getting better ratings than Howie Mandel and America's Got Talent.

SVenus: loonatic112358: BGates: SVenus: BGates: Apparently we had guys out on the rig to run the CBL.

Big blue!

This.

isn't that the guys being bought out by the guys i mentioned?

If SLB gets bought out by anybody, that would surprise the crap out of me. I don't think anyone can afford them.

GE, they gobbled up varco and hydril