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(Some Guy)   An Evangelical delegation visits Morocco regarding explusion of 40+ Christians. Do they a) urge data gathering and rational discourse, b) protest outside the Moroccan capitol, or c) tell Morocco to copy Uganda's homosexual death penalty law?   (christiantoday.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Morocco, religious tolerance, child abandonment, foreign national, evangelical churches, police caution, Muslim world, missions  
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5517 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 May 2010 at 6:27 PM (6 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-05-22 08:06:23 PM  
+ 1 Internets to you, Subby.

/fustanella? fustanella? Are you there?
 
2010-05-22 08:26:23 PM  
Always with the death to teh gheys.
 
2010-05-22 09:06:43 PM  
Morocco is one of the few awesome African or "Arab" nations.
 
2010-05-22 09:21:19 PM  
It's fun to see Evangelicals get a taste of their own medicine. As a group, these people really have no redeeming value.
 
2010-05-22 09:27:24 PM  
Golly. Thanks everyone, I'm just tickled pink over here.

For those of you missing the Evangelical/Uganda connection, read this.

The Invisible Sky Wizard:
or c) eventually tell Morocco to copy Uganda's homosexual death penalty law?

FTFY, subby.


Awful. Destroys the epigram utterly. You don't come to Fark for accurate headlines, do you?

For future reference, it looks like they're probably not going to pass the bill, fortunately.

glassa:
Meanwhile, no mention of option C as noted above in subby/douche's headline.


...

Anyone have a facepalm pic I can borrow? I don't post much so I haven't collected folders full of lolcats and whatnot.

Sibling Infantry Mortar of Skeptical Inquiry:

Christian =/= homophobic.

Not all Evangelicals are those noisy gay-baiting freaks that the media decide are good for ratings topical and newsworthy. Many, yes. Most, probably not.


Never said they were, dear boy.

Or girl.
 
2010-05-22 09:34:26 PM  
"The time of reasoned discourse is at hand!"

Meh, doesn't have the same ring to it.

/Joins the +1 subby chorus.
 
2010-05-22 09:43:06 PM  
FTA:
Among those ordered to leave the country were 16 Christians from the Village of Hope who were taking care of 33 orphaned and abandoned children. The workers had been serving as foster parents for some 10 years with the full knowledge of the government and were shocked by the sudden expulsion in March. They refuted proselytism claims and maintained that they have abided by the law.

Kome: +1 to subby

I'd like to give a +1 to Morocco for having laws against proselytizing, but restricting freedom of speech is never good.


Farkers, through personal ties I have known of this situation for quite a while, and am very saddened that the kids of the Village of Hope were separated from the only caregivers they know, and that the (both Muslim and Christian workers) of the place are separated from, quite possibly, the only peaceful life they have ever known. Moreover, that my own personal ties (and all those involved) may not return to their loved ones in Morocco at present as they promised.

The issue in Morocco (as with just about every Muslim-majority nation) is not that proselytizing is illegal, just that no other religion except Islam may be freely taught. So, for example, Christian parents in Morocco may not teach their own children in their own home about the Bible, but those same children go off to school (and there is no such thing as a non-Muslim school) and are taught from the Qur'an. If a Christian man wants to talk about Christ to a Muslim man, it is only after the first is asked about it by the second. I do not know if it is the case in Morocco, but in Egypt no one may even carry a Bible in public unless it is concealed to not look like one, but the same rules do not apply to the Qur'an. I know of no current mostly Christian populated nation with similar (enforced) laws. I strongly suggest reading the related and more recent article on the issue.

But in the end, it boils down to this: we Christians know that without Christ, we (and every human) are totally without hope of redemption from the death that comes from our imperfection, and we have been very explicitly commanded by Christ to share that information. To not share it with those who we know have never even heard it to make up their own minds about it is just about the most selfish and hateful thing we could ever do, like refusing to call in a bomb expert friend after seeing a ticking bomb with lots of people around. Penn Jillette, an Atheist, agrees.
 
2010-05-22 09:54:23 PM  
You magnificent bastard, subby, you faked me out.
 
2010-05-22 10:07:22 PM  
Headline is misleading. The part about urging them to copy Uganda's law is in a different article, it's not even mentioned in the linked one. Probably because Christianity Today wants to cover it up.
 
2010-05-22 10:13:32 PM  

Encarnacion:

The issue in Morocco (as with just about every Muslim-majority nation) is not that proselytizing is illegal, just that no other religion except Islam may be freely taught. So, for example, Christian parents in Morocco may not teach their own children in their own home about the Bible, but those same children go off to school (and there is no such thing as a non-Muslim school) and are taught from the Qur'an.


Based on this state department report, although there are many disagreeable restrictions on non-Muslim faiths, these claims in particular don't appear to be true. There are Jewish and Christian schools, and there is no mention of laws against teaching one's own children one's religion.

If a Christian man wants to talk about Christ to a Muslim man, it is only after the first is asked about it by the second.

That sounds like proselytizing to me, which is indeed illegal.

I do not know if it is the case in Morocco, but in Egypt no one may even carry a Bible in public unless it is concealed to not look like one, but the same rules do not apply to the Qur'an.

According to the report previously linked, bibles may be displayed and sold publicly, although they may not be freely distributed.
 
2010-05-22 10:15:50 PM  

the_red_spectacle: Why must I listen to something I don't personally believe, and while working.


Because you didn't politely tell her you didn't have the time or interest to listen to her. I've hard remarkable success with religious folk of all types simply by telling them in a polite way that I'm not interested. I don't meekly listen and let them think I care, and I don't tell them they're dumbasses who believe in magical beings.

To me they're no different than anyone else trying to talk to/at me about things I don't care about or agree with. And I grew up in the so-called "Bible belt".
 
2010-05-22 10:18:29 PM  
glassa: Meanwhile, no mention of option C as noted above in subby/douche's headline. However, good to know how easily fooled you are & how irrational your hatered toward Christians is.

*sigh*

that is some weapons-grade stupid right there, I tell ya.
 
2010-05-22 10:35:27 PM  
What's this? The press isn't doing what it does best and misrepresenting something whilst saying there's something wrong with it? Then why is it news?
 
2010-05-22 10:37:48 PM  
brilliant meme subversion
 
2010-05-22 10:49:19 PM  

Encarnacion:
I do not know if it is the case in Morocco, but in Egypt no one may even carry a Bible in public unless it is concealed to not look like one, but the same rules do not apply to the Qur'an.


I've been unable to find any corroboration for this claim either, and this state department report doesn't mention it. There are many, many oppressive laws and practices in both countries listed in both reports, to be sure - there's no need to seemingly fabricate oppressive practices when there's such a smorgasbord to choose from.

If I'm incorrect and any of these laws do exist as shown by an impartial source I'll happily retract my statements.
 
2010-05-22 10:50:04 PM  

Christian Bale: Headline is misleading. The part about urging them to copy Uganda's law is in a different article, it's not even mentioned in the linked one. Probably because Christianity Today wants to cover it up.


? link for that article?
 
2010-05-22 10:51:09 PM  
Now now, real Christian "witness" they don't proselytize.

/Sarcasm off
 
2010-05-22 11:21:55 PM  

tjfly: What's this? The press isn't doing what it does best and misrepresenting something whilst saying there's something wrong with it? Then why is it news?


That's why it's HERE.
 
2010-05-22 11:36:42 PM  

Bonzo_1116: Killer Cars:
I would become a fan of Carrot Top if he produced his own TV show where he follows all kinds of door-to-door proselytizers, and interrupts them by running up and performing his props comedy routine right alongside.

No! I want Gallagher to do his thing with the watermelons.

We don't get many God-botherers going door to door here. Just a few Jehovah's Witnesses and a pair of Mormon dudes in ties in the last 6 years.

/I usually say "no thanks" and offer the door-knockers a beer for their troubles. It's neighborly and they go away.


I once had a member of the JW posse come to my door.

COOL STORY BRO TIME
I was working 3rd shift at the time, explaining why, at 10 am on a saturday morning, I was a shambling, grunting, hairy beast in boxers when the doorbell rang.

Well I, having just gotten to bed an hour or so prior, shamble to the door and throw it open without looking through the peephole first. In spite of the apartment complex I lived in at the time having a No Solicitation/Proselytizing/etc policy, there is a little Korean lady of indeterminate late middle age standing there with a copy of the Watchtower.

Woken up at 10am on my day off by a soul solicitor is enough to make Fuelie angry, so I grab the Watchtower, shout "BUNDALO UNGAWA!" and proceed to EAT the tract right in front of her. She was stunned, dare I say horrified. When I took a step toward her, arms raised, half of a drool covered Watchtower hanging from my mouth, she screamed and ran off, never to be seen by me again.

Have never been approached by the JW Posse after that, even after 2 moves.
 
2010-05-22 11:38:13 PM  
Okay, she may have been some other flavor of Asian. I couldn't tell, she ran away before I could get a bite.
 
2010-05-22 11:48:25 PM  

Braindeath: How is it a human abuse to tell people not that they can't be Christians but just that they can't farking harass other people.


Because human rights include freedom of speech and freedom of all parts of your religion that don't hurt others and even though they may piss you off it's not a real reason to take away their rights?
 
2010-05-22 11:53:54 PM  

FueledByEthanol: Bonzo_1116: Killer Cars:
I would become a fan of Carrot Top if he produced his own TV show where he follows all kinds of door-to-door proselytizers, and interrupts them by running up and performing his props comedy routine right alongside.

No! I want Gallagher to do his thing with the watermelons.

We don't get many God-botherers going door to door here. Just a few Jehovah's Witnesses and a pair of Mormon dudes in ties in the last 6 years.

/I usually say "no thanks" and offer the door-knockers a beer for their troubles. It's neighborly and they go away.

I once had a member of the JW posse come to my door.

COOL STORY BRO TIME
I was working 3rd shift at the time, explaining why, at 10 am on a saturday morning, I was a shambling, grunting, hairy beast in boxers when the doorbell rang.

Well I, having just gotten to bed an hour or so prior, shamble to the door and throw it open without looking through the peephole first. In spite of the apartment complex I lived in at the time having a No Solicitation/Proselytizing/etc policy, there is a little Korean lady of indeterminate late middle age standing there with a copy of the Watchtower.

Woken up at 10am on my day off by a soul solicitor is enough to make Fuelie angry, so I grab the Watchtower, shout "BUNDALO UNGAWA!" and proceed to EAT the tract right in front of her. She was stunned, dare I say horrified. When I took a step toward her, arms raised, half of a drool covered Watchtower hanging from my mouth, she screamed and ran off, never to be seen by me again.

Have never been approached by the JW Posse after that, even after 2 moves.


WAY COOL STORY, BRO

Also, you now owe me a new keyboard. And my nose hurts.
 
2010-05-23 01:26:32 AM  

FueledByEthanol: Bonzo_1116: Killer Cars:
I would become a fan of Carrot Top if he produced his own TV show where he follows all kinds of door-to-door proselytizers, and interrupts them by running up and performing his props comedy routine right alongside.

No! I want Gallagher to do his thing with the watermelons.

We don't get many God-botherers going door to door here. Just a few Jehovah's Witnesses and a pair of Mormon dudes in ties in the last 6 years.

/I usually say "no thanks" and offer the door-knockers a beer for their troubles. It's neighborly and they go away.

I once had a member of the JW posse come to my door.

COOL STORY BRO TIME
I was working 3rd shift at the time, explaining why, at 10 am on a saturday morning, I was a shambling, grunting, hairy beast in boxers when the doorbell rang.

Well I, having just gotten to bed an hour or so prior, shamble to the door and throw it open without looking through the peephole first. In spite of the apartment complex I lived in at the time having a No Solicitation/Proselytizing/etc policy, there is a little Korean lady of indeterminate late middle age standing there with a copy of the Watchtower.

Woken up at 10am on my day off by a soul solicitor is enough to make Fuelie angry, so I grab the Watchtower, shout "BUNDALO UNGAWA!" and proceed to EAT the tract right in front of her. She was stunned, dare I say horrified. When I took a step toward her, arms raised, half of a drool covered Watchtower hanging from my mouth, she screamed and ran off, never to be seen by me again.

Have never been approached by the JW Posse after that, even after 2 moves.


I like this many time overs...

;)
 
2010-05-23 01:34:16 AM  

DocPetey: glassa: Meanwhile, no mention of option C as noted above in subby/douche's headline. However, good to know how easily fooled you are & how irrational your hatered toward Christians is.

*sigh*

that is some weapons-grade stupid right there, I tell ya.


"hatered"?

Believe me, Christian, if I hated anyone, you'd be at the top of the list, along with yer Muslim brothers, and any other haters who seem to need to exist in a world of absolutes, black-and-whites, and judgments...

However, I'm not a hater. I talk angry sometimes, but so do you; and you blow shiat up! WTF?

For the record though: I'm not irrational, yo, no, it is you who are irrational. Ya'll deal with irrationalities every day of yer dogmattic existence, no?

Cognitive dissonance much?

;)
 
2010-05-23 01:54:23 AM  
glassa: "Seems pretty loving to me."

Remember that time Christian missionaries got caught abducting Haitian children?

Naw. You only remember the stuff that reflects well on Christianity. Pointing out the rest would be 'irrational hatred'.
 
2010-05-23 02:44:42 AM  
"Proselytism is illegal in the predominantly Muslim country. Though Morocco has been recognised for its religious tolerance and freedom..."

Which is it? Reporter needs to make up their mind.
 
2010-05-23 02:46:21 AM  

Encarnacion: we have been very explicitly commanded by Christ to share that information. To not share it with those who we know have never even heard it to make up their own minds about it is just about the most selfish and hateful thing we could ever do, like refusing to call in a bomb expert...



If you do not open yourself up as equally to the potential convert's own religion as you want the potential convert to open up to yours, you're completely immoral and acting in bad faith. Period. End of story. No one needs phony compassion.
 
2010-05-23 03:53:30 AM  

Somacandra: If you do not open yourself up as equally to the potential convert's own religion as you want the potential convert to open up to yours, you're completely immoral and acting in bad faith. Period. End of story. No one needs phony compassion.


If a person believes that they know the only way to salvation, and they offer it to you, it is real compassion. The fact that you don't believe them doesn't make them immoral. If more people were willing to admit this fact, they'd stop seeing missionaries as "hostile" and realize that they're merely delusional.

Once you allow this alternative to your one-sided reality to take hold, you can show them the compassion that you would show any other mentally ill, victimized person.
 
2010-05-23 10:17:07 AM  

Encarnacion: But in the end, it boils down to this: we Christians know that without Christ, we (and every human) are totally without hope of redemption from the death that comes from our imperfection


Everyone from every other theological position, be it another religion or atheism, also "knows" certain things to be absolutely true (or almost absolutely true) and vital for others to know and are trying to convince everyone else that their own imperfections are blinding them to the truth.
 
2010-05-23 12:57:52 PM  
Without rtfa it's c. They advised Uganda as well. Can't wait for imams from Saudi Arabia to start advising the US congress.
 
2010-05-23 07:19:39 PM  

Indubitably: DocPetey: glassa: Meanwhile, no mention of option C as noted above in subby/douche's headline. However, good to know how easily fooled you are & how irrational your hatered toward Christians is.

*sigh*

that is some weapons-grade stupid right there, I tell ya.

"hatered"?

Believe me, Christian, if I hated anyone, you'd be at the top of the list, along with yer Muslim brothers, and any other haters who seem to need to exist in a world of absolutes, black-and-whites, and judgments...

However, I'm not a hater. I talk angry sometimes, but so do you; and you blow shiat up! WTF?

For the record though: I'm not irrational, yo, no, it is you who are irrational. Ya'll deal with irrationalities every day of yer dogmattic existence, no?

Cognitive dissonance much?

;)


Newsflash...the people blowing shiat up are the Muslims. Muslims are still living in the age of the caveman and are nowhere near my "brothers"
 
2010-05-23 08:10:56 PM  

glassa: Newsflash...the people blowing shiat up are the Muslims. Muslims are still living in the age of the caveman and are nowhere near my "brothers"


You know that the coalition dropped 88,500 TONS of bombs on Muslims in the first wave of Desert Storm, right?
 
2010-05-23 11:57:35 PM  

Somacandra: Encarnacion: we have been very explicitly commanded by Christ to share that information. To not share it with those who we know have never even heard it to make up their own minds about it is just about the most selfish and hateful thing we could ever do, like refusing to call in a bomb expert...

If you do not open yourself up as equally to the potential convert's own religion as you want the potential convert to open up to yours, you're completely immoral and acting in bad faith. Period. End of story. No one needs phony compassion.


Ah, but I have. I just don't have enough faith to follow anyone or anything but Christ, what with the whole dying-and-coming-back-to-life thing he did.

TheyCallThisWork: Somacandra: If you do not open yourself up as equally to the potential convert's own religion as you want the potential convert to open up to yours, you're completely immoral and acting in bad faith. Period. End of story. No one needs phony compassion.

If a person believes that they know the only way to salvation, and they offer it to you, it is real compassion. The fact that you don't believe them doesn't make them immoral. If more people were willing to admit this fact, they'd stop seeing missionaries as "hostile" and realize that they're merely delusional.

Once you allow this alternative to your one-sided reality to take hold, you can show them the compassion that you would show any other mentally ill, victimized person.


{Said with a shrug} Thanks, and I'll take that. (Do click, read, and feel free to use the drop menu to change the version.)

Kome: Encarnacion: But in the end, it boils down to this: we Christians know that without Christ, we (and every human) are totally without hope of redemption from the death that comes from our imperfection

Everyone from every other theological position, be it another religion or atheism, also "knows" certain things to be absolutely true (or almost absolutely true) and vital for others to know and are trying to convince everyone else that their own imperfections are blinding them to the truth.


The way I figure, if in THE END one of those theological positions are right and I'm wrong, yeah, I'm screwed, but I did live a life of trying to the best of my ability to love God with my everything and to love everyone else better than I loved myself. But if, in THE END, what I and others like me can best understand to be what God says on the matter is true, then I have the severe responsibility to share what I know on the matter to everyone else so they have a chance to make up their own minds about it while they still can.
 
2010-05-25 06:52:59 PM  

glassa: Indubitably: DocPetey: glassa: Meanwhile, no mention of option C as noted above in subby/douche's headline. However, good to know how easily fooled you are & how irrational your hatered toward Christians is.

*sigh*

that is some weapons-grade stupid right there, I tell ya.

"hatered"?

Believe me, Christian, if I hated anyone, you'd be at the top of the list, along with yer Muslim brothers, and any other haters who seem to need to exist in a world of absolutes, black-and-whites, and judgments...

However, I'm not a hater. I talk angry sometimes, but so do you; and you blow shiat up! WTF?

For the record though: I'm not irrational, yo, no, it is you who are irrational. Ya'll deal with irrationalities every day of yer dogmattic existence, no?

Cognitive dissonance much?

;)

Newsflash...the people blowing shiat up are the Muslims. Muslims are still living in the age of the caveman and are nowhere near my "brothers"


Nice.

So is being retarded a necessary condition fo0r being a Christian spokesperson?

;)

Um, please check yer delusion at the door, douchie.

No, Christians have never blown shiat up...

Um squared: two wars currently, at least one crusade, laser-guided bombs, and a whole cadre of idiots who think the U.S. was founded by Christians, for Christians, and should be Christian in its entirety...???

No, you don't throw yer dogma around with explosions, yo.

Grow the fark up, douchebag, and please take off yer fishbowl-helmet. The world will thank you later.

;)
 
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