mdking09: Magorn: mdking09: S10Calade: You all forget about this little guy:

I bought one a few months back. IT'S AWESOME!!!!

There is a guy in WI who makes hand-loads that will go straight through a 350 engine block.
YAY!!!!

What a .458 SOCOM round may look like... HOLY FRAK THAT AWESOME


Holy hell, that looks like the bastard stepchild of one of these


600 nitro express?

I think it's one of these (new window).

The Belgians have already solved the left-side ejection problem with bullpup rifles. The FN 2000 has an ejection tube and forward ejection.

FN2000 with 40mm grenade launcher.

X_Raraavis: The Belgians have already solved the left-side ejection problem with bullpup rifles. The FN 2000 has an ejection tube and forward ejection.

FN2000 with 40mm grenade launcher.

forward ejection through a tube? Good lord, how often does it jam?

Animatronik: I think it's one of these (new window).

AHH GUN HaXoRs!! that is seriously ridiculous, the 2 bore is even more impressive, a 3500 grain slug? call in the howitzers after that.

mdking09: Animatronik: I think it's one of these (new window).

AHH GUN HaXoRs!! that is seriously ridiculous, the 2 bore is even more impressive, a 3500 grain slug? call in the howitzers after that.

Also known as half a pound of lead. And the 4-bore was 1/4 lb., and so on. Given that it was black powder, it probably created its own little fog bank when you fired it too.

The Russians found this was the most effective way to deal with this tactic when they were in Afghanistan.

AGS-17 30mm Automatic Grenade Launcher

S10Calade: You all forget about this little guy:

I bought one a few months back. IT'S AWESOME!!!!

There is a guy in WI who makes hand-loads that will go straight through a 350 engine block.
YAY!!!!

For long range, that's definitely the wrong choice... It's a decent round for what it's made for, but has a rainbow trajectory outside of 100 meters.

OregonVet: mdking09: I would actually respectfully disagree. While a lever action rifle is an awesomely fun gun to shoot and makes a good saddle gun, varmint gun, brush hunting gun, or plinker, I would not not recommend one as a 'first gun' or an all around deer rifle due to their propensity to jam, and the more complex workings of chambering the mechanism if you ever need to take it apart.

A bolt action is the most simple, easy, accurate, and forgiving gun to shoot and take apart if you are inexperienced with using and maintaining firearms. I would recommend a Remington .270 or .243 or 7mm as a great all around gun that you can hunt deer with. (.243 is the smallest caliber you can legally hunt deer with in my home state of Wa, I don't know about elsewhere)Browning also makes great deer rifles.

My 44 Remington Mag has never jammed, ever. It's 18 years old too. While I won't really disagree with pretty much anything in your statement, I'll point out that anyone really should look hard at a levergun because it is everything you pointed out and it's a great deer rifle. There isn't a mammal in North America my 44 can't put down. Granted I do have to bolt actions for deer hunting, but if I could only own one gun, it'd be my Marlin 44. Less experienced gun owners should have a mentor anyway.

I can agree with that. I have a lever 1932 Winchester 30-30 that is one of my favorite guns, never jams either (I just threw the jamming thing in there because its a common complaint), but I wouldn't deer hunt with it if there was a possibility of having to make a shot over 100 yards, but under that distance, and especially in thick forest or brush you really can't beat it in terms of power and a quick follow up shot if needed.

My first gun was a bolt-action .243, and it will be my kids' first gun when I have them. Its just a better learning gun in my opinion.

I have had my eye on the new Browning Lever Action series though, they are pretty machines. First things first, got to get a handgun for the lady, she's really petite, I think im going to push for the Walther ppk, even if it is a little heavy. I carry a full sized Springfield XD .45 myself

Ontos: S10Calade: You all forget about this little guy:

I bought one a few months back. IT'S AWESOME!!!!

There is a guy in WI who makes hand-loads that will go straight through a 350 engine block.
YAY!!!!

For long range, that's definitely the wrong choice... It's a decent round for what it's made for, but has a rainbow trajectory outside of 100 meters.

That's why it's blunt. You tell just by looking at the shape of the projectile.
It's made for stopping cars that try to run checkpoints among other things. Like a lot of early big game guns, made for puncturing big things at short distances.

How in the world do you conceal a full size .45 unless you have on a winter jacket? Even the glock 36s have a little bulk.

I would not be surprised if Colt didn't change over to a gas piston system much like on the Ruger SR 556. Colt has already taken a step in the right direction with their "Monolithic" LE 6940 with it's one piece upper receiver/rails combined. If the Ruger were capable of Full Auto or Burst mode and had a lighter weight barrel, it would be the perfect replacement for the M-4. There's a lot of new stuff coming from Colt which will make for a better M-4. There's the new H & H2 (heavy) buffers, 52 degree feed ramps, as opposed to 40 degree, one piece gas rings for the bolt,...so you don't have to space the ring gaps 120 degrees apart,...a rubber O-ring on the extractor spring to stop extractor bounce and fold down front sights as on the Model 6940. The 6940's bottom rail can be removed to attach a grenade launcher.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Invictus56: How in the world do you conceal a full size .45 unless you have on a winter jacket? Even the glock 36s have a little bulk.

I'm a pretty big guy (6'3" 240lbs) so that helps, I am right handed, but I usually carry in a left handed El Cheapo neoprene Uncle Mikes inside the waistband holster in the small of my back, so that it clips nicely onto my waistband and the grip sticks out to the right for a quick draw (not good if I will be sitting down for long periods).

I also have a leather slimfit law enforcement highride hip holster that a loose-ish t-shirt will hide easily.

ideally I would like to get an inverted small of the back holster (gun upside down, barrel pointing left, grip sticking up)
like so http://www.fist-inc.com/holsters/holster/40.htm

As someone that was issued five different M16's over his Marine Corps career, I can honestly tell you it doesn't matter what variant you pick, the AR platform that the M4 is based on IS the problem - specifically it's a target rifle being used as a battle rifle and they wonder why they have problems.

THE M16 SAGA; STILL TRYING TO MAKE A SILK PURSE OUT OF A SOW'S EAR
http://benandbawbsblog.blogspot.com/2008/01/m16-saga-still-trying-to-make-silk. h tml

U.S. Army's M4, M16, AR: A National Disgrace?
http://randywakeman.com/USArmyM4NationalDisgrace.htm

I cite this even though I disagree completely with the conclusion that US .30 caliber(.30-06 Springfield) ever needed to be replaced at all. That's coming from a Marine grunt that would have had to lug around the extra weight. At the very least 7.62 NATO should never have been dropped as the standard service rifle round. The 7mm that the Brits wanted would have grouped smaller, but still would have sacrificed hitting power.

I'll take hitting power over BC's for distances under 500 yards any day. For over that the snipers use heavier bullets with higher BC's anyways. For Lake City m118lr they use a 175gr. SMK instead of the usual 150gr. FMJ that the belt fed guys currently use. In .30-06, the belt fed guys and line grunts could STILL be using 150 gr. FMJ while the snipers could be using 208gr. AMAXes and have no problem with 1200 yard hits. Hell, they could chamber the bolt rifles in .30-06 Ackley which approaches .300 Win Mag power and STILL be able to break apart an ammo belt if the absolute worst case scenario came to pass.

When I had the chance to vote with my wallet I went this route, though voting today, it would be a Garand with a magazine conversion. See LOSOK Arms for more details.:


It's heavy, it's all steel and as reliable as an FAL or maybe even an AK, and oh yeah, the frickin cartridge it shoots packs three times the energy as the NATO squirrel round the M4 uses. And the reason it's coming back, to the much consternation of Stoner devotee's, is because unlike his POS it can be counted on. It's "flawed", it has "problems", and yet the SEALs never stopped using it, and the Marines were the first to field it again when it became blatantly obvious that what the grunts had been saying about the M16 since Vietnam still applies. Even now the corps is looking for more excuses to replace more M16s with M-14s/DMRs and it's about farking time.

The AR platform is a fragile TARGET RIFLE that has no place on a battlefield.

do they not teach how to skip bullets in anymore? it used to be a standard technique for beaning people from far away.

/course that was the fashion of the day

Harold_of_the_Rocks: Mock26: Harold_of_the_Rocks: Well, the Brits were on the right track in the late 1940s with the .280 British (7mm MK1Z) and the Bullpup EM-2 rifle, but then the good old USA forced the 7.62 x 51 mm as the standard NATO round. Which was too powerful for a light assault weapon, so we then forced NATO to adopt the 5.56 x 45 mm. So now we're inventing things as an improvement on the 5.56 like the 6.8 SPC and the 6.5 Grendel, which are basically....the .280 British.

USA! USA! USA!

We did not force NATO to accept our rounds. We merely pointed out that in a war we would be able to churn out butt loads more ammo than all of NATO combined and that if everyone was using the same standard round we would be more than happy to share it with them.

Yeah, but the .280 British would have made a better standard round that we could have produced butt loads of. As a matter of fact, the .276 Pedersen (a round with similar ballistics in a larger case) almost became US standard in the M1 Garand before WWII.

Personally, I think something like the Springfield SOCOM II (new window)except chambered in .260 Remington would be the ideal weapon.

True enough, but no use crying over spilled shell casings now.

LOSOK Garand EBR:
http://losokcustomarms.com/catalog.php?category=9

LOSOK Valkyr Semi-Automatic Rifle for those of you that think that an M1 can't compete with a AR10/SR25/M110
http://losokcustomarms.com/index.php

There might be a post like this in here (not reading 400+ posts!), but our military needs an adaptable rifle platform a la a 21st century Stoner system. Really a carbine for close in work and a rifle for open country. The 5.56mm is NOT going anywhere anytime soon. Until someone comes up with something amazing (like a rifle full of miniature guided rockets that hit 99% of the time) we are stuck with our little super .223 for a long time.

Jarhead_h: As someone that was issued five different M16's over his Marine Corps Core career, I can honestly tell you it doesn't matter what variant you pick, the AR platform that the M4 is based on IS the problem - specifically it's a target rifle being used as a battle rifle and they wonder why they have problems.

THE M16 SAGA; STILL TRYING TO MAKE A SILK PURSE OUT OF A SOW'S EAR
http://benandbawbsblog.blogspot.com/2008/01/m16-saga-still-trying-to-make-silk. h tml

U.S. Army's M4, M16, AR: A National Disgrace?
http://randywakeman.com/USArmyM4NationalDisgrace.htm

I cite this even though I disagree completely with the conclusion that US .30 caliber(.30-06 Springfield) ever needed to be replaced at all. That's coming from a Marine grunt that would have had to lug around the extra weight. At the very least 7.62 NATO should never have been dropped as the standard service rifle round. The 7mm that the Brits wanted would have grouped smaller, but still would have sacrificed hitting power.

I'll take hitting power over BC's for distances under 500 yards any day. For over that the snipers use heavier bullets with higher BC's anyways. For Lake City m118lr they use a 175gr. SMK instead of the usual 150gr. FMJ that the belt fed guys currently use. In .30-06, the belt fed guys and line grunts could STILL be using 150 gr. FMJ while the snipers could be using 208gr. AMAXes and have no problem with 1200 yard hits. Hell, they could chamber the bolt rifles in .30-06 Ackley which approaches .300 Win Mag power and STILL be able to break apart an ammo belt if the absolute worst case scenario came to pass.

When I had the chance to vote with my wallet I went this route, though voting today, it would be a Garand with a magazine conversion. See LOSOK Arms for more details.:


It's heavy, it's all steel and as reliable as an FAL or maybe even an AK, and oh yeah, the frickin cartridge it shoots packs three times the energy as the NATO squirrel round the M4 uses. And the reason it's coming back, to the much consternation of Stoner devotee's, is because unlike his POS it can be counted on. It's "flawed", it has "problems", and yet the SEALs never stopped using it, and the Marines were the first to field it again when it became blatantly obvious that what the grunts had been saying about the M16 since Vietnam still applies. Even now the corps is looking for more excuses to replace more M16s with M-14s/DMRs and it's about farking time.

The AR platform is a fragile TARGET RIFLE that has no place on a battlefield.

Fixed that for you.

Kaka: I am sorry but when you really want to put the hurt on...

The AA-12 is a one man squad.



Can't get at them with slugs or shot? Why not poke 'em with 32 fin guided frags in 11 seconds? Range - 175 meters.

And when your enemy is pinging away at you from 800 meters out? Not very useful in those situations.

Glass Joe: Here's your old reliable Chauchat. You're welcome.

One of the worst pieces of crap ever produced.

Mock26: Marine Corps/ Core...Fixed that for you.

I sincerely hope you are not serious

OregonVet: My son's first trip to the range will be with a bolt action, but his first gun that's "his" is going to be the Henry leveraction .22. I want the function of a repeater for him but not the automatic kind.... I carry a 45 too. A lot of ladies I know are going for the 380's. Which is demonstrated by the fact the ammo is scarce around here.

*cheers*

I spent a number of years as a shooting instructor with the Boy Scouts and they only use .22 rifles, and at least once a summer I would get a kid who knew nothing about guns except the word recoil and would be afraid to fire a .22 because of the recoil. To prove to them that they were wrong I used to fire one of the rifles with the butt against my nose! That always got the point across better than any talking to would have.

mdking09: Mock26: Marine Corps/ Core...Fixed that for you.

I sincerely hope you are not serious

Some blow hard braggart/internet tough guy once bragged about his service in the Marine Core. And since then it has become a bit of an inside joke here on Fark.

But, I must confess that I forgot to add in the big grin smiley face at the end of my post to indicate a joke.

:-D

/Meant no disrespect to marines or the core
//Still look back fondly upon my time in Parris.

Mock26: And since then it has become a bit of an inside joke here on Fark.

Ah, I am relatively new to Fark, so that explains why this made no sense to me.

mdking09: Mock26: And since then it has become a bit of an inside joke here on Fark.

Ah, I am relatively new to Fark, so that explains why this made no sense to me.

There have been a handful of obvious frauds on Fark posing as military members. One was FLYNAVY who claimed to be a Navy pilot for a long time and was caught up in his lie by one astute Farker in a thread for a link he (FLYNAVY) submitted about himself that was green lighted. The Farker bit his tongue until he knew absolutely for sure his case was solid, then just out of no where amid a thread full of adoring Farkers the bomb was dropped and FLYNAVY was seldom heard from again.

The other, the one being referenced here, was The Convincing Savant who claimed to be a "Marine Core soldier" or something, then instead of just letting it roll off his back when he was called out on it he insisted that his wife had typed it for him, leading to the now dead meme "Wife-like typing detected", meaning that someone is full of shiat or posing.

If you Google around enough you'll find the threads. They're amusing reads, certainly historical landmarks of ITG smackdowns on Fark.

//We're aloud to name names and talk about these incidents, right? Does that violate something?

Yeah, here is the original thread where TheConvincingSavant is pwned.

//Anyone remember when Fark had "cliches" long before "memes" were cool?

ZipSplat: mdking09: Mock26: And since then it has become a bit of an inside joke here on Fark.

Ah, I am relatively new to Fark, so that explains why this made no sense to me.

There have been a handful of obvious frauds on Fark posing as military members. One was FLYNAVY who claimed to be a Navy pilot for a long time and was caught up in his lie by one astute Farker in a thread for a link he (FLYNAVY) submitted about himself that was green lighted. The Farker bit his tongue until he knew absolutely for sure his case was solid, then just out of no where amid a thread full of adoring Farkers the bomb was dropped and FLYNAVY was seldom heard from again.

The other, the one being referenced here, was The Convincing Savant who claimed to be a "Marine Core soldier" or something, then instead of just letting it roll off his back when he was called out on it he insisted that his wife had typed it for him, leading to the now dead meme "Wife-like typing detected", meaning that someone is full of shiat or posing.

If you Google around enough you'll find the threads. They're amusing reads, certainly historical landmarks of ITG smackdowns on Fark.

//We're aloud to name names and talk about these incidents, right? Does that violate something?

I saw TCS post a one line reply in some random Politics thread, so he's actually still around. I have him (and FLYNAVY) favorited in bright yellow, it seemed appropriate at the time.

Guysmiley: I have him (and FLYNAVY) favorited in bright yellow, it seemed appropriate at the time.

nice.

With all the military frauds out and about lately I've really got no mercy for these vain douchenozzles. I know no fewer than THREE people in the town I live in that claim to have been in Special Forces. One was a 24 year old engineering student who told everyone at the pet door factory where I briefly worked that he was in Delta Force... as in currently in Delta Force, they apparently call him away on secret missions. Seriously. And people believe him.

Another is a 31 year old bisexual with a nervous tick that went WILD when an SF friend of mine asked him what MOS he was and which ODAs he's served on. He claimed he was an 18A (SF officer), didn't know when he was commissioned or how that was possible without a degree, didn't know what "ODA" stood for and after having it explained to him he said he was with "Ranger Team" or something. All these questions were being asked in front of a room of about four or five curious people. This guy wears jump boots and BDU pants everywhere he goes and when people ask about them he tells them about his time in Special Forces. He was pretty heavily invested in this notion that he used to be SF.

It was rough to watch. The guy was an acquaintance of my girlfriend's and I was always just content to let it be, but my friend took him to town. Good lord I thought he was going to tick himself to death right there in front of everyone.

vossiewulf: This just in- carbines and full assault rifles are different things and aren't equally capable in all environments.

This just in: semantics are more important than the survival of our troops.

mdking09 2010-05-22 01:02:31 AM
Invictus56: How in the world do you conceal a full size .45 unless you have on a winter jacket? Even the glock 36s have a little bulk.

I'm a pretty big guy (6'3" 240lbs) so that helps, I am right handed, but I usually carry in a left handed El Cheapo neoprene Uncle Mikes inside the waistband holster in the small of my back, so that it clips nicely onto my waistband and the grip sticks out to the right for a quick draw (not good if I will be sitting down for long periods).

I also have a leather slimfit law enforcement highride hip holster that a loose-ish t-shirt will hide easily.

ideally I would like to get an inverted small of the back holster (gun upside down, barrel pointing left, grip sticking up)
like so http://www.fist-inc.com/holsters/holster/40.htm

Im about the same size but I prefer the Glock 27 or a tiny little P232. Usually carry it SoB or in a nylon pancake. Whatever works for you bro I just cant stand a full size jammin in my side or sticking out a tshirt looking obvious. More power to ya.

mdking09 2010-05-22 01:02:31 AM
Invictus56: How in the world do you conceal a full size .45 unless you have on a winter jacket? Even the glock 36s have a little bulk.

I'm a pretty big guy (6'3" 240lbs) so that helps, I am right handed, but I usually carry in a left handed El Cheapo neoprene Uncle Mikes inside the waistband holster in the small of my back, so that it clips nicely onto my waistband and the grip sticks out to the right for a quick draw (not good if I will be sitting down for long periods).

I also have a leather slimfit law enforcement highride hip holster that a loose-ish t-shirt will hide easily.

ideally I would like to get an inverted small of the back holster (gun upside down, barrel pointing left, grip sticking up)
like so http://www.fist-inc.com/holsters/holster/40.htm

Im about the same size but I prefer the Glock 27 or a tiny little P232. Usually carry it SoB or in a nylon pancake. Whatever works for you bro I just cant stand a full size .40 jammin in my side or sticking out a tshirt looking obvious. More power to ya.

mdking09: Mock26: And since then it has become a bit of an inside joke here on Fark.

Ah, I am relatively new to Fark, so that explains why this made no sense to me.

It was a head scratcher to me, too, the first time I say the 'marine core soldier' tag dropped.


dc0012c: FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL FAL

The tubby former Delta Force guy on Tactical Impact was really working his point on a recent episode about how great a combat arm the FN FAL is, he thought it was a better battlefield weapon than the M-14 and claimed our current services would be much better off with a FAL than the M-4. In the mountains and wide open spaces, I'd agree. I don't know how fun lugging one of those buggers and the .308 ammo around the mountains would be, though. Those big-hard hitting-mid 20th century-full on-battle rifles like the FAL, the German G-3, M-14 or Israli Galil were tremendous weapons. But I wonder if more modern, probably lighter systems like the HK 417 or SCAR-H would be better choices today.

ZipSplat: Yeah, here is the original thread where TheConvincingSavant is pwned.

//Anyone remember when Fark had "cliches" long before "memes" were cool?

That's good stuff.

I also chuckled at the "Marines are the public relations arm of the Navy that occasionaly fights wars" crack from the Army guy.

soooo ... not only do I have to come up with a production design for my new form of body armor(invention in progress), I have to figure out a new rifle design? Great, more work...

doglover: I've always wondered how we could kill thousands of enemies over most of a decade and only lose 1000 of our own guys and somehow WE are at a disadvantage.

I mean, has no journalist ever played a strategy game?

THIS IS WHAT MORONS LIKE YOU AND MORONS IN OUR GOVERMENT DON'T UNDERSTAND. THIS IS NOT CONVENTIANL WARFARE IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW MANY WE KILL. WE ARE FORIEGN INVADERS OCCUPYING THEIR LAND. FOR EVERY 1 WE KILL WE RECRUIT 10 FOR THEIR SIDE. THEY WILL FIGHT TIL THE LAST MAN.

USA = WAR MONGERS

Invictus56: Whatever works for you bro I just cant stand a full size .40 jammin in my side or sticking out a tshirt looking obvious. More power to ya.

I also don't particularly care if it is obvious, so that may be another reason I don't mind the .45. I open-carry on occasion also. I live in Wa state, so open-carrying is discouraged by law enforcement because it tends to make people's nervous buttons twitch, but completely legal, and I have never even been stopped for it.

Invictus56: How in the world do you conceal a full size .45 unless you have on a winter jacket? Even the glock 36s have a little bulk.

For the Army, concealing a weapon isn't exactly a priority....

fta:

Martin Fackler, a ballistics expert, also defended the 5.56 mm round, blaming the M-4s inadequate performance on its short barrel, which makes it easier for soldiers to scramble out of modern armored vehicles.

"Unfortunately weapon engineers shortened the M-16's barrel to irrational lengths," Fackler said. "It was meant for a 20-inch barrel. What they've done by cutting the barrel to 14.5 inches is that they've lost a lot of velocity."

I have been saying this for years now.

5.56 is utterly useless in a barrel under 16" in length.
I would rather have a pistol cartridge firing SMG than an M4 with the 14.5" barrel.

When fired from the older 20" barrel of an M16A2 the 62 grain 5.56 is actually pretty "OK" in a kinda "semi-glorified carbine" sorta way.

20" -- 3100 fps
16" -- 2900 fps
14.5" -- 2700 fps

FLYNAVY gets shot down here (new window)

Your_Huckleberry:
I also chuckled at the "Marines are the public relations arm of the Navy that occasionaly fights wars" crack from the Army guy.

I have had a few chuckles with former Marines who were willing to swear on their lives that they were not part of the Navy!