radioman_: My thesis: any one who believes in a sky god is delusional.

From that starting point all farked-up religionist behavior is derived. It does not have to be tolerated.

Ahhh, the kind of stuff people say to justify their bigotry and hatred.

well done, you've certainly shown those intolerant religiousphiles a thing or two

WrestlerManager: GilRuiz1:
Not offensive: "I'm an atheist because I don't see any evidence of God. I also don't believe in the Bible."

Offensive: "I'm an atheist because I'm not a drooling retard like you. I also don't believe in a fairytale book written by goat-farking, stone-age, illiterate nomads."

See? It's possible to say it without being offensive. When people refer to smug douchebag stereotype," they are referring to atheists that take the second approach.

Seriously Gil, many religious people don't see any difference between those two statements. You do, which is nice, but they don't. Explaining to them that you are a non-believer is like explaining that you're a child molester. No matter what words or attitude you use, you're still an abomination to them.

I've lost many people I considered friends simply because they found out I was an atheist. I guess it's nice to know the remaining friends I do have that know are actually tolerant (or, more likely, simply indifferent), as opposed to just saying they are. Interestingly enough, though, it's always been Christians who've stopped being my friends. My friends that are Jewish just ask me tons of questions about it, get me to ask them questions, and we have serious conversations about it all the while being respectful and polite.

strathmeyer: russsssman: They are just attacking you atheists because Charles Manson was an athiest.. And you are all just like him. Right?.. Oh grouping people together doesn't mean everyone is the same? Oh!

I'm confused about what you think the fact that Christians label criminally insane people as "atheists" says to the rest of us.

That went over your head... Point was, just because someone calls themselves a follower of Christ and doesn't take away from the fact they are also a stupid infallible human. Get it yet?

TheRaven7: There are atheists, and then there are atheists who feel the need to let everyone know how atheist they are just like the religious who need to let everyone know how religious they are. "United Atheists"? Really?

Hey, even these guys have a club now.

eeeleeet

I'm Christian, but I DO believe in the problems that organized religion creates. Recently, I was praying at a Cathedral when someone came up to me and asked; "why don't you attend service? There is one going on right now downstairs."

This is my belief: Once you place the direction of the church in the hands of people, you open a can of worms. People are not God. Therefore, they are open to misinterpretations, bad decisions, and worst of all, acts of violence and in this case, vandalism.

Soooo... I pray by myself. After all, one of Jesus' most famous quotes was: "Go to your room and shut the door. Let no one know what you are doing. Then pray this prayer: *Lord's Prayer* your father in heaven will be gracious for what you have done."


Church is anywhere people are gathered to further their relationship with god. It can be anywhere, including right here, right now.

The man himself said so:

For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Matthew 18:20

wyltoknow: 20 bucks says the yokels vandalizing this sign (and therefore wasting tax dollars to repair it) are the sort of morons who spend the rest of their time biatching about how much the government wastes money.

Screw you, I'm not taking that bet.

/A fool and his money, etc.

eeeleeet: This is my belief: Once you place the direction of the church in the hands of people, you open a can of worms. People are not God. Therefore, they are open to misinterpretations, bad decisions, and worst of all, acts of violence and in this case, vandalism.

Soooo... I pray by myself.

Yes, better to come to your own conclusions than to have someone give them to you, along with all their other prejudices. I can certainly respect that outlook. It is, after all, exactly how many of us arrived at atheism.

Right_Drumstick_Wacko: "The guy". You sound overwhelming informed.

You're right. I remember all the churches coming out to support what he did. No Christians condemned what he did. You have obviously thought this through at length.


Are you trolling, willfully ignorant, or just in the mood to argue with somebody?

Scott Roeder said at his sentencing, "I did kill him. It was not a murder," Roeder said. "If you were to obey the higher power of God himself, you would acquit me."


He doesn't believe that he sinned, which is what I stated. If English is your second language, then I'll cut you some slack. Otherwise you're just another apologists for the lunatics...

I'm an atheist, but I try to not mention it, because the American theocracy is not only looming, but almost certain. Please don't log my IP.

Add me to the list of those having their Darwin fish ripped off their car.

One of these days I'm just going to walk through the mall parking lot and rip off every cross and Jesus fish that I see stuck on a bumper. Of course, then again I would probably be charged with a hate crime if I was caught.

Lots and lots of people are very afraid of death. So they do stupid things, going so far as to deny it's inevitability.

FarkinHostile: Kome

An atheist is one who doesn't believe in any sort of divinity or supernatural element. This includes souls, spirits, devils, demons, angels, etc.


Um, must disagree. Atheism is the absence of god-belief. Consequently, a person could be an atheist and still believe in ghosts and other paranormal phenomena. In fact, it appears many do believe in seemingly irrational, "Supernatural" phenomena:

atheists more likely to be superstitious

Just because one doesn't believe in god doesn't mean they are more rational than the average bear.

Can't be a Christian and believe in astrology, but somehow some do. About 25% of the US believes in astrology and over 80% of this country is some denomination of Christian. It doesn't surprise me that many people who call themselves atheists are superstitious. Lot of prisoners call themselves good people, but that doesn't make it true. Most people consider themselves above average, but that's statistically impossible. In all honesty, I think it just shows that people define the labels they use for themselves (or for others) differently then how the label itself is traditionally defined.

And I never claimed anything about atheists being more rational. Sure, I think that as a philosophical position, atheism is more rational than any variant of theism, but how I feel about a pure philosophical position versus another is wholly (holy?) different than how I feel about a particular individual who happens to claim to accept said position.

russsssman: stupid infallible human.

"infallible"?

radioman_: My thesis: any one who believes in a sky god is delusional.

From that starting point all farked-up religionist behavior is derived. It does not have to be tolerated.

Your logic quickly falls apart when you realize that, after controlling for socioeconomic factors, there is no statistically significant difference between the farked-up behavior of religious, areligious, or even irreligious people. As such, the hypothesis of religion (or delusion, if you will) as a prime cause of intolerable behavior is not supported.

Or, in layman's terms, people will always do atrocious things for their beliefs, even if God, god, or gods have nothing to do with it.

Right_Drumstick_Wacko: trancemission: FTFA: Atheists simply believe there is no God, or no evidence to support the existence of God.

FAIL

I have heard self proclaimed atheists state this almost verbatim. Were they not true unbelievers?

Atheism is nothing more than an absence of belief. An atheist lacks belief in god in the same way you (probably) lack a belief in unicorns. The author's definition attempts to ascribe motives which may or may not apply to individual atheists. Some may affirmatively believe there is no god ("gnostic atheists"), while others may hold no belief due to a lack of evidence. Others may simply not care about the question one way or the other.

The people you are talking about were telling you why they were atheists, not defining the term for all atheists.

Kome: I've lost many people I considered friends simply because they found out I was an atheist. I guess it's nice to know the remaining friends I do have that know are actually tolerant (or, more likely, simply indifferent), as opposed to just saying they are. Interestingly enough, though, it's always been Christians who've stopped being my friends. My friends that are Jewish just ask me tons of questions about it, get me to ask them questions, and we have serious conversations about it all the while being respectful and polite.

Want to try a fun experiment? Tell people that you're a Pagan. Watch how folks you never even had a clue believed in anything react.

What's the problem? This is merely civil disobedience, like that stolen cross in the desert. Vandalism is always hilarious, you'll recall.

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Lots and lots of people are very afraid of death. So they do stupid things, going so far as to deny it's inevitability.

This

TheRaven7: There are atheists, and then there are atheists who feel the need to let everyone know how atheist they are just like the religious who need to let everyone know how religious they are. "United Atheists"? Really?

Yep, atheists should not be allowed to benefit from having a community. Only religious people can get together.

/fark you in the ear

tototototo: KK

Missouri knows how to handle situations like that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Parks_Highway

Kome: Most people consider themselves above average, but that's statistically impossible.

No it's not. Suppose you have a neighborhood with 3 houses: 2 are worth $100k and one is worth $1 million. The average is $400k, so two of the houses are below average.

In principle, if you have N items, N-1 can be above average or below average -- if the remaining 1 item is extremely high or extremely low.

God does not believe in atheists therefore, atheists do not exist.

pwhp_67: Right_Drumstick_Wacko: "The guy". You sound overwhelming informed.

You're right. I remember all the churches coming out to support what he did. No Christians condemned what he did. You have obviously thought this through at length.


Are you trolling, willfully ignorant, or just in the mood to argue with somebody?

Scott Roeder said at his sentencing, "I did kill him. It was not a murder," Roeder said. "If you were to obey the higher power of God himself, you would acquit me."


He doesn't believe that he sinned, which is what I stated. If English is your second language, then I'll cut you some slack. Otherwise you're just another apologists for the lunatics...

You brought up the mental patient Roeder in defense of Lanny Budd's argument that "I'm pretty sure that in the Christian heart, they know that Jesus will forgive them for killing an atheist."

You do not know how narrow and little minded this makes you sound, do you? I fear it is beyond my powers to rectify that.

Sky21Dancer: God does not believe in atheists therefore, atheists do not exist.

You know what God thinks?! Clearly we should worship you as his prophet!

Christians do this kind of crap to keep atheists and agnostics marginalized.

Those without faith are still the most hated minority in the nation. Actions like this (and prying Darwinfish off cars) just go to reinforce the general belief that our society is intollerant of nonbelievers.

Why?

Because if atheists/agnostics were not treated this way there would be so many more of them out in the open. Next time you go to church look around you. I would guess that up to a quarter of the people there, especially the irregular attendees, don't really believe in all that stuff. They are just there because it is an expectation. Going to church is important to their parents. And their kids started going, so you have to take them or grandpa will say something. And you don't want to miss a chance to network with the other business leaders in church. Oh, and you have to say that you go somewhere when people ask you because you don't want to tell new acquantenances that you, gasp, don't go to church. So the pews are chokful of people that really aren't there because they love Jesus.

I still go to church, mostly because it is important to my father. It is also really important to my wife (who also DOESN'T believe). This all comes from the fundamental belief that you are 'supposed' to go to church and that it is necessary for others in the community to think that you believe.

If the church wants to keep the butts in the seats and checks in the plate they have to maintain that pressure. Otherwise, a lot of people would 'come out of the closet' about their lack of faith.

Let's play a game, identify the mindless demagogues in this thread!

Caradoc: How very "Christian" of them.
joshiz: Totally not what Jesus would do.
GAT_00: Ah, the tolerant Christian that we all know and loathe.
tnpir: Christians being hypocites?

Say it ain't SO.
Poowaddins: Christians around here are some of the most hateful people I know.

Ding ding ding! Good job following your blind practice of Christian hate! MINOR insignificant little detail you might have missed: TFA doesn't mention Christ, Christians or Jesus.

Ouch you guys must feel like idiots.

/only idiots make baseless assumptions
//i've come to expect no less from fark.

Kome

In all honesty, I think it just shows that people define the labels they use for themselves (or for others) differently then how the label itself is traditionally defined.


I have a problem with labels in general. I do not fix in a box very well. Well, some boxes I fit in very well in, but that is another story. ;)

I do get that in order to understand something, you must define it first. Still, I can't even explain what (I believe) god is very well. (shrugs) Really hard to understand something I can't even define. Thus, to me the label Agnostic (weak)Deist seems to fit my beliefs the best.

I would bet that many people label themselves incorrectly.

Right_Drumstick_Wacko: I have brought this point up several times and not one of the loud and proud atheists in here has even TRIED to respond to this question.

Only a hyper-religious wacko would deface an atheist sign. Let's do a little math, whaddya say?

77% of the entire population of Canada are Xtian. 83% of the entire population is religious (16.2% are atheist.) That means 92.7% of the religious population is Xtian.

Yeah, I'd put my money on the culprits being Xtian. It's a safe bet.

jshine: Kome: Most people consider themselves above average, but that's statistically impossible.

No it's not. Suppose you have a neighborhood with 3 houses: 2 are worth $100k and one is worth $1 million. The average is $400k, so two of the houses are below average.

In principle, if you have N items, N-1 can be above average or below average -- if the remaining 1 item is extremely high or extremely low.

As a mathematical abstraction, sure that's possible. Unfortunately for math, reality doesn't follow the rules that math describes.

Right_Drumstick_Wacko: You do not know how narrow and little minded this makes you sound, do you?


Why would it? Is it not a Christian belief that if you are truly repentant in your heart that all sins will be forgiven?

I didn't make the rules...

Comrade438 Quote 2010-05-20 04:23:19 PM
What's the problem? This is merely civil disobedience, like that stolen cross in the desert. Vandalism is always hilarious, you'll recall.


" b-b-b-but that was different " hoop jumping in 3-2-1.

nevirus: Right_Drumstick_Wacko: I have brought this point up several times and not one of the loud and proud atheists in here has even TRIED to respond to this question.

Only a hyper-religious wacko would deface an atheist sign. Let's do a little math, whaddya say?

77% of the entire population of Canada are Xtian. 83% of the entire population is religious (16.2% are atheist.) That means 92.7% of the religious population is Xtian.

Yeah, I'd put my money on the culprits being Xtian. It's a safe bet.

There's the response I expected long ago. At least you're fair and objective and an obvious supporter in "innocent until proven guilty".
And thank God (sorry) you're a whiz at math, so you could figure it out. Should they send the Sheriff out to nearby churches and round up some suspects, now that you've cracked the case?

eeeleeet: Hey Jim! Haven't seen you around here for awhile!

Wait...what? I'm pretty sure I was around yesterday.

DAMN you people are demanding... :D

Kome: jshine: Kome: Most people consider themselves above average, but that's statistically impossible.

No it's not. Suppose you have a neighborhood with 3 houses: 2 are worth $100k and one is worth $1 million. The average is $400k, so two of the houses are below average.

In principle, if you have N items, N-1 can be above average or below average -- if the remaining 1 item is extremely high or extremely low.

As a mathematical abstraction, sure that's possible. Unfortunately for math, reality doesn't follow the rules that math describes.

That is some spectacularly hard FAIL.

pwhp_67: Right_Drumstick_Wacko: You do not know how narrow and little minded this makes you sound, do you?


Why would it? Is it not a Christian belief that if you are truly repentant in your heart that all sins will be forgiven?

I didn't make the rules...

The root word in ignorant is ignore. And you are quite adept at ignoring what Christians actually believe. And that works for you.

Abstruse: xanadian: FishyFred: happy without God

It goes deeper than that. They don't want to face the distinct possibility that this is all there is. Period.

It seriously scares the shiat out of them and I've never understood why. I was on a date once and it ended in a HUGE argument when it came up I was an atheist ("What church do you go to?" "I don't go to church." "Why not?"...not like I was "Hi, I'm Abstruse and I don't believe in your silly sky-fairy you cross-humper!"). She said that she would rather date a devil worshiper than an atheist because at least a devil worshiper believed in something.

I guess at that point a BJ was out of the question.

StrangeQ: Add me to the list of those having their Darwin fish ripped off their car.

One of these days I'm just going to walk through the mall parking lot and rip off every cross and Jesus fish that I see stuck on a bumper. Of course, then again I would probably be charged with a hate crime if I was caught.

I've always wanted to make a Darwin fish with a sign under it that says "An intolerant asshole just attacked my car. Are you happier now that we all know what you are?"

Never been able to work out the logistics of making it, though.

Trivia Jockey: Raiden333: Well, aren't you supposed to forgive us, turn the other cheek, and love us?


This is what one very staunch Christian said on Yahoo Answers in a thread about this very story:


The fool has said in his heart there is no God

I do not suffer fools gladly.

The signs are meant as a slap in the face...and I know we're SUPPOSED to turn the other cheek, but occassionally, just occasionally I might deck the other guy.....I am not perfect

My only hope is that the athiest would retaliate by shooting the asshole in the face.

Right_Drumstick_Wacko: And you are quite adept at ignoring what Christians actually believe.


So you're saying that Christians don't believe their sins can be forgiven?

Allllllllllrighty then...

Trivia Jockey

OK, I admit that this is true...however, what religion do you honestly think the person who did this is a member of? Be honest here.


Couldn't it be some kids out vandalizing stuff for the fun of it?

Without further evidence you really can't say who or why. Perhaps make a logical assumption, but that can be dead wrong.

Number 216: How logical is it to eat off wood when they have perfectly good tummies?!?!?

Came for this ↑, stayed for the flamewar!

Kome: I've lost many people I considered friends simply because they found out I was an atheist. I guess it's nice to know the remaining friends I do have that know are actually tolerant (or, more likely, simply indifferent), as opposed to just saying they are. Interestingly enough, though, it's always been Christians who've stopped being my friends. My friends that are Jewish just ask me tons of questions about it, get me to ask them questions, and we have serious conversations about it all the while being respectful and polite.

Funny, I've also noted that Jewish people I meet tend to be more intelligent and more well-adjusted than their theological descendants. It's as if the bell curve keeps leaning left as the religions evolve.

Trivia Jockey: wolfpaq777: TFA doesn't mention Christ, Christians or Jesus.


OK, I admit that this is true...however, what religion do you honestly think the person who did this is a member of? Be honest here.

It doesn't really matter though, does it? All people who believe in the gods have made the same fundamental mistake in how they perceive the world. From where I sit, I can't see any difference whatsoever between a buddhist, a priest and an islamic suicide bomber. They all teach themselves fairytales and wish that everyone else believed the same rubbish.

This is also why I find it so fascinating when religious people attack islam. In for a penny, in for a pound, right? If you believe in the gods how can you possibly mock someone else who also has chosen to believe in the gods- regardless of which ones they believe in and which ones they don't?

Only athiests have the moral high ground here...

MIU: Kome: jshine: Kome: Most people consider themselves above average, but that's statistically impossible.

No it's not. Suppose you have a neighborhood with 3 houses: 2 are worth $100k and one is worth $1 million. The average is $400k, so two of the houses are below average.

In principle, if you have N items, N-1 can be above average or below average -- if the remaining 1 item is extremely high or extremely low.

As a mathematical abstraction, sure that's possible. Unfortunately for math, reality doesn't follow the rules that math describes.

That is some spectacularly hard FAIL.

How so? There is a significant difference between a "rule following" system and a "rule described" system. Reality is a "rule described" system. We attempt to understand it by describing patterns we see. Gravity doesn't follow the theory of relativity, rather those formulas describe the effects of gravity in a way that helps us understand the concept.