Man, not sure what kind of doctors you complainers are going to. 2 weeks for an appointment? I live in Dallas, ranked #8 most populated city in the country, and I can make same-day or next-day appointments 100% of the time. Only exceptions are dentists and other non-general physicians, which usually get me in within the week.

Unless Dallas just has one of the best healthcare systems in the country, I think you or your choice of doctor are doing something wrong. Get with someone else?

What exactly does the insurance company do for us that we couldn't do for ourselves?

Dwight_Yeast: Bigdogdaddy: I have had insurance on different jobs for the past 30 years and I have been to the ER one time...and that was when I woke up with a red streak running down my arm from an injury that caused blood poisioning.

You've been lucky and had "good" insurance for your working life.

Younger people like myself aren't so lucky. I've never had insurance that I wasn't paying for and a number of my friends are keeping jobs just for their insurance.

/and as I laid out before: you get sick in the city and you need treatment NOW, your doctor is going to send you to the ER and wash his/her hands.

Well, I don't know about "lucky" as I worked my ass off to get a trade and was able to command a decent job. I think most of have wanted to leave our jobs at one time but the thought of not having insurance kept us from it. But yeah, it does definately suck to be without insurance. I know because I've been there and done that, survived and never had to take from the government.

Dano33: What exactly does the insurance company do for us that we couldn't do for ourselves?

Medical bills, particularly for emergencies, can get exceptionally high. Very few have enough cash on hand to pay for an emergency that leads to a couple of days in the hospital. The only other options for paying for it are going into debt, or health insurance. It's not that insurance companies do something we can't do - but (in theory) they make it easier to pay expensive medical bills.

Exactly! The insurance companies do not do anything we couldn't do ourselves. The only thing we're doing is letting someone in the room who has an incentive for denying treatment. What an unbelievable stupid system.

Giant Clown Shoe: with all of the wealth in this country and personal enrichment that occurs at every level of government why do the tea party cocks want to deny the poor access to health care?

aren't all of the conservative farks supposed to be christians?

No, they are not all Christians...and even some "liberals" are Christians.

In other news Reuters is bad at interpreting statistics.

Paragraph one:
One in five people in the United States visit an emergency room every year

Paragraph two:
In 2007, approximately one in five persons in the U.S. population had one or more emergency department visits in a 12-month period

is it 20% visited once, or 20% visited at least once?

Also- I thought everyone has insurance now, so of course there's no uninsured flooding the ER. It's 30 million on social insurance that are flooding the ER.

SophT: Also- I thought everyone has insurance now

No, not by a long shot.

Dano33: Exactly! The insurance companies do not do anything we couldn't do ourselves. The only thing we're doing is letting someone in the room who has an incentive for denying treatment. What an unbelievable stupid system.

Farmers also do something we could do ourselves. We could write our own software, repair our own cars, and wash our clothes manually with soap we made ourselves from the fat of goats we raised in our backyard.

I agree that insurance companies are a convenience, not a necessity of life - but they have the potential to make our lives easier. Obviously there is risk - you're right that they have an incentive to deny payment - but that doesn't mean the system is irretrievably broken, it means the system is imperfect and needs to be fixed.

Perhaps we could pass a law to make it illegal to deny payment for important medical procedures.

TFerWannaBe: Perhaps we could pass a law to make it illegal to deny payment for important medical procedures.

Thankfully, we did.

Sum Dum Gai: TFerWannaBe: Perhaps we could pass a law to make it illegal to deny payment for important medical procedures.

Thankfully, we did.

Imagine that!

I'm out - time to go to work.

I'm sorry, but were going to have to put little Timmy down.

From the study, its all based on mail in surveys. Great data set source. Like illegals are going to mail in a survey.

scooter1369: From the study, its all based on mail in surveys. Great data set source. Like illegals are going to mail in a survey.

Or anyone who mails in a survey giving a truthful response.

davidphogan: What's preventative care?



Apparently the left wing's solution to cure everything.


In reality it is taking care of your self so you have the best chance not to become ill, but the left does not believe in personal responsibility , so they concoct terms lie this to make their followers think the BS legislation they passed will fix everything.

Apparently the left wing's solution to cure everything.


In reality it is taking care of your self so you have the best chance not to become ill, but the left does not believe in personal responsibility , so they concoct terms lie this to make their followers think the BS legislation they passed will fix everything.


There's a lot of people who are gonna get cancer or other diseases based on heredity etc. At the end of the day, we're all gonna get sick and die figuratively speaking.

Not for nothing but aren't the fattest must unhealthy states the Red ones?

I've been under a bunch of different insurance plans over the years. Doctors and hospitals seem to vary the treatment, depending on your plan. I think it's all a racket between the insurance and medical companies, (the drug companies are a value added thing, like french frys).

On a trip to Canada my wife had to go to the emergency room for something minor. No insurance up there, so we had to pay up front; $160 total.

I recently, (Easter Sunday), had to go to the emergency room for something minor. I have good insurance and my deductable ended up being 15% of the total - $150.

Something isn't right about this. It's like the insurance premiums I pay are pure profit for the insurance company, unless I have to go to the doctor; then my premiums are pure profit for the medical company. The deductable ends up being the true cost of care.

It's like I throw money away on insurance, unless I need to see the doctor at a 85% markup.

I have to give a plug here for Urgent Care. My snowflake ended up with a spit-in-a-rag-because-she-could-no-longer-swallow sore throat at 10pm on Friday night, prime overcrowded ER time. I was dreading going, but didn't think she could wait. I found an Urgent Care, and we were seen right away. We were in and out in just over an hour, had a doc take his time with my kid, and everything including a scrip cost less than $120. (uninsured at the time).

A+, would be sick there again.

insano: This statement is the closest thing I could find to something supporting the headline, which it really doesn't do.

Yeah, it does.

Effectively -- if the uninsured make up about 15% of the general population, they also make up about 15% of the people who go to the ER. That is, they don't disproportionally use the ER.

Current US gov study, using 4+ year old data, as interpreted by Tamyra Carroll Garcia of the NCHS.
Check.

Cherry-picked stats from Nation-wide numbers, without interpreting how they apply to areas heavily effected by illegals?
Check.

Proving yet again that studies/polls and numbers can be made to say whatever you want?
Check.

It also rejects some claims that people are using the emergency department for routine care -- just 10 percent of visits were for non-urgent causes.

"In 2007, approximately one in five persons in the U.S. population had one or more emergency department visits in a 12-month period," the report from the National Center for Health Statistics reads.

Numbers extracted: Nationwide: (1 July 2007, US Population estimate) 301,621,157
Average ER visit cost(2007)= $1038
1/5=20%= 60,324,231 ER Visits { $62,616,551,778 }
10% Non urgent(uninsured)= 6,032,423 { $6,261,655,074 }

No time before work to dig up how these costs apply State by State, City by City, but I'm willing to make a wild guess that there is a skew of increased costs in areas rife with illegals vs. small illegal populations.

/Numbers can be fun!

I know someone who's uninsured; she simply doesn't go for any treatment unless she's critically ill, and then just goes to a walkin clinic to get some antibiotics or something. Otherwise she just puts up with whatever's making her feel bad.

My doctor stopped accepting medical insurance coverage; we have to file ourselves to my insurance company. When I asked her why, she said because the companies dictate to doctors how long they can see a patient, and discourage them from treating more than one symptom/illness in any one visit. That way a patient has to return multiple times for everything that may be wrong with them, meaning more insurance fees for the company. By not accepting insurance, she was able to discuss and propose treatment for several issues I had in just one visit.

/of course, now we get to file all the paperwork to get reimbursed
//dealing with BCBS is a PITA

So where does the uninsured go when they need medical attention if its not the ERs?

insano: Where is this 15% coming from? Certainly not the article.

That's roughly the percentage of people in America without health insurance.

Dano33: So where does the uninsured go when they need medical attention if its not the ERs?

In an emergency, they go to the ER just like everyone else. For non-emergency stuff, they simply don't get treatment and let it go away on its own.

As it's been summarized, though, the study doesn't cover multiple visits to the ER. So insured folks who use the ER could be going 1x/year and uninsured folks who use the ER could be going monthly, or vice versa -- that may be discussed in the full study, but that's certainly going to affect the actual use of the ER.

No, I'm not reading the full study at the moment.

Dano33: So where does the uninsured go when they need want medical attention if its not the ERs?

FTFY

unyon: So it sounds like the uninsured aren't getting any preventative care then. That's comforting.

The ER isn't for preventative care, idiot.

stucka: As it's been summarized, though, the study doesn't cover multiple visits to the ER. So insured folks who use the ER could be going 1x/year and uninsured folks who use the ER could be going monthly, or vice versa -- that may be discussed in the full study, but that's certainly going to affect the actual use of the ER.

No, I'm not reading the full study at the moment.

Frequency was similar for noninsured though a bit higher, about 5% of the insured population had 2 or more visits compared to 7% of the uninsured population. Medicaid had the most, but again that's probably because it selectively covers certain higher-risk groups.

yeah well, those figures are not the average for the border states.

TheMega: ER's are overcrowded because the doctors can not run their damned businesses worth a shiat! They overbook worse than any hotel or airline, make you wait 2 hrs to get in, then want to only spend 2 minutes in the room with you.
Had a fever of 104 and bad scoots, call doctor and earliest appt was one month and one day away.
Thought I'd broken finger (different doctor like 10 years later) and same deal, 3 weeks to get in.

Right now I have no doctor because NONE are taking new patients... and, I'm a diabetic.

Trying to get into a new doctor is impossible. I've had to go to urgent care with a sinus infection because no doctor could see me for 2 weeks.
Now I have Crohn's, which leads to occasional bowel obstructions and waiting 4 hours in the ER is downright dangerous, but they don't give a shiat because everyone there acts like they're dying because they have the sniffles and my stomach pain is not considered an 'emergency' because they won't actually listen to what I'm saying. It's a mess.

Medical offices love to overbook. I should try billing a medical office for time off work past the appointment.

I prefer to be the first patient scheduled after the office opens. WTF with waiting an hour past a previously scheduled appointment?

Dr Google sometimes has limitations.

namegoeshere: I have to give a plug here for Urgent Care. My snowflake ended up with a spit-in-a-rag-because-she-could-no-longer-swallow sore throat at 10pm on Friday night, prime overcrowded ER time. I was dreading going, but didn't think she could wait. I found an Urgent Care, and we were seen right away. We were in and out in just over an hour, had a doc take his time with my kid, and everything including a scrip cost less than $120. (uninsured at the time).

A+, would be sick there again.

Your post speaks volumes about the state of health care in this country. You are happy that it took over an hour and $120 of your cash for a child to be treated for pharyngitis. Now I will be attacked because people are going to agree with you that that is a bargain, because they are used to seeing that at $400-500 on their itemized medical bill that the insurance company pays or negotiates away the bulk of, leaving them delighted to only pay $60 (including a prescription for a worthless antibiotic).

dittybopper: I'd think that billing for any time over an hour waiting would be reasonable.



Go ahead and do it.

Bacontastesgood: including a prescription for a worthless antibiotic



How do you know it is worthless?

Baryogenesis: TheMega: ER's are overcrowded because the doctors can not run their damned businesses worth a shiat! They overbook worse than any hotel or airline, make you wait 2 hrs to get in, then want to only spend 2 minutes in the room with you.
Had a fever of 104 and bad scoots, call doctor and earliest appt was one month and one day away.
Thought I'd broken finger (different doctor like 10 years later) and same deal, 3 weeks to get in.

Right now I have no doctor because NONE are taking new patients... and, I'm a diabetic.

Holy shait, THIS.

It's next to impossible to go to a PCP with an acute condition.

Mostly this.
Before they opened up acute care clinics where I live you ended up taking sort of emergency things to the ER. Minor stitches, fever of 103 etc. Those things could have been handled by acute care if we had one back then. Both hospital groups have opened up acute care clinics that run until 9pm. Only one of them has an on call doctors to do same day appointments. This seems to help having all these options. I have not seen the inside of the ER for over a decade. One thing that would help would be for the hospitals to run an acute care clinic across the street from 5pm until 8am. Run the ones that are not true emergencies through there with the option to take them across the street if they are really that bad. Leave the ER for car accident victims and heart attacks.

Another tactic that would lower the ER usage is to put a penalty on using it on Medicaid. Our insurance has a $200 deductible for using the ER unless it is for an accident of some sort. Put that on Medicaid.

SuperCatBarf: Let's say you get sick. Here's what you do:

Call your doctor, tell the receptionist what's up, and make an appointment...for two weeks later. Get better in less than a week, cancel appointment

or,

call your doctor, tell the receptionist what's up, and make an appointment...for two weeks later. Feel really, really sick, and go to the walk-in clinic

or,

know specifically what is wrong with you and what the treatment is, get treated like an idiot for six or eight hours, and leave with a 50/50 chance your illness has been taken care of.

OR, you wake up sick, call the doctor's office as soon as it opens, and see the the doctor that day. That's how mine works. And mine is a family practice that serves both insured folks and those with low incomes (on a sliding fee scale).

amaranthe: OR, you wake up sick, call the doctor's office as soon as it opens, and see the the doctor that day. That's how mine works. And mine is a family practice that serves both insured folks and those with low incomes (on a sliding fee scale).

And I live out in middle of nowhere Michigan.

This is news? Who really thought that a lot of uninsured people went to the ER?

I can only speak for pediatrics, but it tends to be a ton of Medicaid folks. They bring in multiple kids at a time (2,3 usually..seen up to 6!) and come in multiple times a month. Some are on a first name basis with staff just like some of the homeless folks are on a first name basis with the adult ER.

The system is farked. The reform will do nothing. People have been conditioned to think this is their PCP and will freak out if wait exceeds more than 1-2 hours.

Dano33: Not for nothing but aren't the fattest must unhealthy states the Red ones?

...or the brown ones:

Link (new window)

bighasbeen: Is this bad news for anyone? Are conservatives outraged? Is this Obama's something?

Stay tuned...

No, it's not bad news, unless you consider being lied to by the government to get a monstrous health bill passed bad news.

I call it business as usual and am not surprised, seeing as how the government's main job is to mislead the people.