GhostWing: baka-san: Lenryer: Wait, so first the republicans add an amendment that close to kills the bill, but the democrats agree to go with it... and the republicans still vote against it? What? Did I get this right?

Pretty much.

Yup.

TotallyHeadless: bigsteve3OOO: We are broke. We borrow money to pay our bills and there is no plan to stop. We should not support this or any other non-defense spending item until we can pay for it.

Why can't we slash defense spending as well? Why is everyone so afraid of touching it?

Defense spending is our national penis, or, more accurately, our national penis pump.

VictorOfBorge: Knucklepopper: VictorOfBorge: Knucklepopper: T.rex: There is separation of Church and State, so i see no problem with separation of Science and State, as well.

It's only fair. And balanced.

Actually, it's not such a bad idea. Only I would say the separation Science and Politics. For example, the whole Climate Change/Global Warming thing has become so politicized that it's hard to tell what is good science from what is "politically correct science."

We do need to fund research, but with the current budget mess combined with inevitable wasting of federal grant money, I'm not sure this isn't such a bad idea. Are there better ways of funding research than begging for tax dollars?

I was amusing myself by agreeing with him; but I see that you're insane.

Pray tell why am I insane? Is it because I prefer my scientific research to be free from the overt politics which inevitably follows "Government Funding?" We already have enough trouble with politics from within the scientific community, and you think it's a good idea to introduce a whole magnitude greater corruption of politics from Washington? I think I know whose little red choo-choo has chugged around the bend, and it's not mine.

Ayn Rand is fiction, dude. Fiction.

Even following your bizarre argument, how is corporate dominance better than government dominance?

Merkin For The Weekend: PJ_the_Barbarian: GAT_00: The media plays by the GOP's dance card.

Wow. The Chomsky-conservative-media theory I can at least understand the basics of, even if I don't necessarily buy it. Namely:

"The media has a conservative bias because it supports the status quo and never seriously considers a radical shift towards socialism or the end of capitalism"

But that same theory would call the democrats a center-right party.

I've never heard anyone try to say that the media is in the GOP's pocket. Because that's ridiculous.

Compared to the rest of the first world, the democrats ARE a center right party.

I prefer to consider the status quo the baseline. A party that wants to move the country slowly to the left is a center-left party in the context of that country.

When Bob Wilson was testifying before congress in the late '60s, defending the appropriation to build Fermilab, some dipshiat senator kept asking him whether or not the accelerator would have any applications to national defense. Wilson's immortal reply was, "It has nothing to do directly with defending our country except to make it worth defending."

That's something these pus-sucking, knuckle-dragging, Jebus-fellating Republicans need to understand. We fund science because it helps make this country worth defending. Fark you science-hating shiatbags. Why don't you pray to your invisible Sky Daddy for disease cures and alternative energy solutions and see how far that gets you. Farking assholes.

Wololo: jasnotron: HAHA. Only the government pushes technology forward ? I guess you're half right on that since war brings about huge leaps in technology and only our government can declare war. Nice !

That's what I'm saying. The free market drives technology development far harder than a government grant or subsidy ever will. Maybe the GOP will use that in their defense?

The free market brings products that happen to come from scientific research. It then turns around and hands the profits to businessmen who have too much to begin with. Science needs pure research without the end goal of profit to move forward as fast and unhindered as possible.

The model you propose results in this:



and running from zombies because the research looked profitable.

\you went to college as a business major, didn't you?

PJ_the_Barbarian: Merkin For The Weekend: PJ_the_Barbarian: GAT_00: The media plays by the GOP's dance card.

Wow. The Chomsky-conservative-media theory I can at least understand the basics of, even if I don't necessarily buy it. Namely:

"The media has a conservative bias because it supports the status quo and never seriously considers a radical shift towards socialism or the end of capitalism"

But that same theory would call the democrats a center-right party.

I've never heard anyone try to say that the media is in the GOP's pocket. Because that's ridiculous.

Compared to the rest of the first world, the democrats ARE a center right party.

I prefer to consider the status quo the baseline. A party that wants to move the country slowly to the left is a center-left party in the context of that country.

I agree that in the context of our country, the dems are center left. Compared to Europe, however, they are solidly center right.

RockIsDead: If you Libs love logic so much whyTF don't you start USING IT!

BURN~! And if they like apples so much, whyTF don't they start EATING THEM?

Lenryer: GhostWing: baka-san: Lenryer: Wait, so first the republicans add an amendment that close to kills the bill, but the democrats agree to go with it... and the republicans still vote against it? What? Did I get this right?

Pretty much.

Yup.

(incredulous-man pic)



heheheh ... (he chuckled as he right-clicked and saved the pic).

Thanks!

Came for the Shaggy 2 Dope, leaving happy.

/F*ckin' Republicans how they work?

Tourney3p0: RockIsDead: If you Libs love logic so much whyTF don't you start USING IT!

BURN~! And if they like apples so much, whyTF don't they start EATING THEM?

YEAH!

Tourney3p0: RockIsDead: If you Libs love logic so much whyTF don't you start USING IT!

BURN~! And if they like apples so much, whyTF don't they start EATING THEM?

Good logical answer!

Typical deluded Leftie!

Americans are the most ignorant people in the developed world, it's no wonder why.

bigsteve3OOO: "We are broke. We borrow money to pay our bills and there is no plan to stop. We should not support this or any other non-defense spending item until we can pay for it."

Hmmm, how do we make the money to pay off those debts? Hey, I know! Let's invest in electric vehicle, solar heliostat and thorium based nuclear and other technologies relevant to a post oil world so that as oil becomes more scarce other nations who did not have the foresight to prepare will be buying that technology from American corporations.

Hey, that was easy to figure out. I wonder certain types struggle with it.

Callous: 3StratMan: Dinki: boost funding for the National Science Foundation and other federal agencies involved in basic and applied science, provided loan guarantees to small businesses developing new technologies and promoted science and math education.

And that is somehow a waste of money. The GOP is really unfarkin believable.

No, the waste of money isn't the ORIGINAL bill; the waste of money is all the additional, non-related BS that gets tacked on to the bill.

FTA:Republicans support science research, said Rep. Ralph Hall of Texas, top Republican on the Science and Technology Committee. But the Democratic bill "continues to take us in a much more costly direction and authorizes a number of new programs which have little to do with prioritizing investments" in science and technology.

We all know how it works- Start a bill funding something like exploration of alternative energy that costs $75 billion. Every other Senator and Representative adds their own little goodie to the bill, like funding for all new rest areas along the Interstate highways in their own state. Next thing you know...BOOM- $250 billion.

I know, I know, "That's how the system works". Well screw that- bring on the line item veto!

That would make too much sense.

The problem is that they cannot agree on a bill without all the pork added in.

Everyone wants the funding for research that the original bill provides but there are too many that will oppose it unless they get the money for their pet projects. So you get left with two options.

1. Oppose the whole thing
or
2. Let more money THAT WE DON'T HAVE get pissed down the rat hole.

Unfortunately it shall remain this way until we get some real integrity in DC or the line item veto. I won't be holding my breath for either.

I'd run, but I'd never win on the "Pay now for what we want and demand from our government with our own money instead of borrowing it" platform.

We get all these services without paying up front for them because of borrow and spend. At least with tax and spend you get a little more voter scrutiny because those are "my dollars", rather than our grandchildren's dollars.

Fiscal responsibility doesn't just mean cutting spending, it can mean raising revenue as well. Preferably both.

pippi longstocking: Americans are the most ignorant people in the developed world, it's no wonder why.

pippi longstocking: Americans are the most ignorant people in the developed world, it's no wonder why.

To give us a small wee bit of credit, we are less likely to ban minarets and burkas.

Spend, spend, spend, spend. Exactly what is the dollar amount that the national debt has to get to before all you liberal clodhoppers finally say enough is enough? Apparently $12,989,515,566,793.20* is just not enough.

*US national debt clock as of 20 May 2010 at 02:10:44 AM GMT.

jjorsett:
Needed two thirds to pass and they didn't get it. So instead of it being their fault that they couldn't get more than 15 Republicans to cross the aisle, they go wailing to the media about how mean the GOP is. Pathetic.

And there's 15 Republicans that will soon be targeted for elimination by the TeaBaggers and other "powers that be" in the party.

Bipartisanship isn't something that is tolerated by the Republican Party.

DistendedPendulusFrenulum: RobertBruce: Why would funding this have been a proper function of the federal government?

... I am guessing the GOP wants to see India and China pull ahead of us in that respect

.

Actually, unions would prefer to see Eastern nations pull ahead, since their utter refusal to take pay cuts in any way, shape, or form will continue to force labor out of the U.S. where it is cheaper so you can still buy your toaster for $12.99, and not $129.99

pippi longstocking: Americans are the most ignorant people in the developed world, it's no wonder why.

At this rate, we won't be part of the developed world much longer.

GAT_00: You can always expect the GOP to figure out what is best for America and do the exact opposite.

No, they just can't have the Dems getting away with any good ideas. They want them to be THEIR ideas, otherwise, the answer is NO.

Dr Jack Badofsky: DistendedPendulusFrenulum: RobertBruce: Why would funding this have been a proper function of the federal government?

... I am guessing the GOP wants to see India and China pull ahead of us in that respect

.

Actually, unions would prefer to see Eastern nations pull ahead, since their utter refusal to take pay cuts in any way, shape, or form will continue to force labor out of the U.S. where it is cheaper so you can still buy your toaster for $12.99, and not $129.99

Union membership is too low for them to really be good scapegoats for the economy at large.

Callous: The problem is that they cannot agree on a bill without all the pork added in.

Everyone wants the funding for research that the original bill provides but there are too many that will oppose it unless they get the money for their pet projects. So you get left with two options.

1. Oppose the whole thing
or
2. Let more money THAT WE DON'T HAVE get pissed down the rat hole.

Unfortunately it shall remain this way until we get some real integrity in DC or the line item veto. I won't be holding my breath for either.

This bears repeating. This bears repeating.

/Did I mention this bears...?

Meh, just means they'll be left behind in the future, and liberals will control new media and technology.

/left behind.. sounds familiar..

Goddamnit Congressman Brady (R) TX

You'd think with a district containing research farking forest, you'd vote for this

Zamboro: bigsteve3OOO: "We are broke. We borrow money to pay our bills and there is no plan to stop. We should not support this or any other non-defense spending item until we can pay for it."

Hmmm, how do we make the money to pay off those debts? Hey, I know! Let's invest in electric vehicle, solar heliostat and thorium based nuclear and other technologies relevant to a post oil world so that as oil becomes more scarce other nations who did not have the foresight to prepare will be buying that technology from American corporations.

Hey, that was easy to figure out. I wonder certain types struggle with it.

You, smarty pants liberal, do not know the real 11th commandment of the Republican Party: anything that's wrong with our country that can't be fixed to the immediate financial profit of the private sector, has to stay broken.

Did you ever go shopping with a kid and have to tell them "No, we don't have enough money to buy everything you want." And then they get to the candy at the checkout and throw a fit? Well, that's the way the government's been going lately. It's like the parent decided to go into prostitution so her kid could have the latest tennis shoes and a pocket full of blister packed gum, except that it's Congress, and they have to blow China.

ifarkthereforiam: loonatic112358: WTF guys, i mean i looked at the bill, and it seemed good, now i didn't comb through the amendmnets, but wtf was the problem?

The democrats getting stuff done that is good for the public is bad for the gop, so they will stop any kind of progress any way they can.

which means when the whole things flopped the other way, more of the same friggin bullshiat

Merkin For The Weekend: Wololo: Merkin For The Weekend: I am absolutely not trolling. I live in the real world, where the Constitution is woefully out of date--

Oh god, I can already see where this is going. You do realize it's a lot easier to debate with someone when you're not ranting and spraying foam from your mouth in solid chunks of paragraph, right? I really can't argue with your level of crazy, sorry.

/Not Republican, for the record. Or a teabagger. Just a curious bystander playing devil's advocate.

Not crazy, just pissed off and tired of teabagger nonsense. I apologize for jumping the gun and assuming that you were one of their ilk- the way you struck out and edited my post led me to believe you were, and I tend to answer douchiness with more douchiness. 99.9 percent of the time, the people who go on about constitutionality are the sort of slobbering right wing teabaggers who send my blood pressure flying.

Now that that is out of the way, let me say this. All of those things such as 'general welfare,' 'domestic tranquility,' and 'blessings of liberty' are all direct quotes from the preamble to the constitution, which sets out the goals for our government. I was merely pointing out that funding science helps achieve all of those goals. It is one of the best things that the government can do with our tax dollars. It is, however, true that we left good sized chunks of our constitution behind ages ago, and for the most part, we are better off for it.



Dude....


That was amazing.

Thank you for that though I'm afraid for the most part you are wasting your time. Has you see, people like him will just hold their ears closed and scream their farked up points even louder.

bigsteve3OOO: We are broke. We borrow money to pay our bills and there is no plan to stop.

The plan is to help create high-paying jobs. You know, jobs that involve science.
High paying jobs are, like, good for economies and stuff.


TotallyHeadless: bigsteve3OOO: We should not support this or any other non-defense spending item until we can pay for it.

Why can't we slash defense spending as well? Why is everyone so afraid of touching it?

THIS.
The military budget is MASSIVE. We already spend WAY more money than any other single nation -- hell, we spend as much as the rest of the world combined. Our military is by far the most advanced in the world. I think we can afford to sit on it for a while and cut out a nice chunk so that we can help out the other 300 million people in the country who don't use guns for a living.

PJ_the_Barbarian: Dr Jack Badofsky: DistendedPendulusFrenulum: RobertBruce: Why would funding this have been a proper function of the federal government?

... I am guessing the GOP wants to see India and China pull ahead of us in that respect

.

Actually, unions would prefer to see Eastern nations pull ahead, since their utter refusal to take pay cuts in any way, shape, or form will continue to force labor out of the U.S. where it is cheaper so you can still buy your toaster for $12.99, and not $129.99

Union membership is too low for them to really be good scapegoats for the economy at large.

Unions and the Labor Movement are the best things that ever happened to this country. They are the reason we have (had) a strong middle class, they are the reasons that none of us had to go to work in factories at nine years old, they are the reasons that our workplaces have to be safe, they are the reasons that we have protections in case we do get injured at work, etc, etc.

John Paul Jones: bigsteve3OOO: We are broke. We borrow money to pay our bills and there is no plan to stop. We should not support this or any other non-defense spending item until we can pay for it.

You're basically saying that since we're short on cash, we have to stop buying gas for the car even though that's the only way we get to work every day.

An apt analogy.

Bunnyhat: Merkin For The Weekend: Wololo: Merkin For The Weekend: I am absolutely not trolling. I live in the real world, where the Constitution is woefully out of date--

Oh god, I can already see where this is going. You do realize it's a lot easier to debate with someone when you're not ranting and spraying foam from your mouth in solid chunks of paragraph, right? I really can't argue with your level of crazy, sorry.

/Not Republican, for the record. Or a teabagger. Just a curious bystander playing devil's advocate.

Not crazy, just pissed off and tired of teabagger nonsense. I apologize for jumping the gun and assuming that you were one of their ilk- the way you struck out and edited my post led me to believe you were, and I tend to answer douchiness with more douchiness. 99.9 percent of the time, the people who go on about constitutionality are the sort of slobbering right wing teabaggers who send my blood pressure flying.

Now that that is out of the way, let me say this. All of those things such as 'general welfare,' 'domestic tranquility,' and 'blessings of liberty' are all direct quotes from the preamble to the constitution, which sets out the goals for our government. I was merely pointing out that funding science helps achieve all of those goals. It is one of the best things that the government can do with our tax dollars. It is, however, true that we left good sized chunks of our constitution behind ages ago, and for the most part, we are better off for it.



Dude....


That was amazing.

Thank you for that though I'm afraid for the most part you are wasting your time. Has you see, people like him will just hold their ears closed and scream their farked up points even louder.

Thanks, although in fairness, I did fly off the handle a little bit earlier in the thread. I'm Buddy Rich.

Here's the 22 congressthings that abstained (14 R, 8 D):

Republicans Voting 'Abstain'
Rep. Spencer Bachus [R, AL-6]
Rep. James Barrett [R, SC-3]
Rep. Brian Bilbray [R, CA-50]
Rep. John Boozman [R, AR-3]
Rep. Mario Diaz-Balart [R, FL-25]
Rep. Kay Granger [R, TX-12]
Rep. Samuel Graves [R, MO-6]
Rep. Mark Kirk [R, IL-10]
Rep. Connie Mack [R, FL-14]
Rep. Ronald Paul [R, TX-14]
Rep. Mike Pence [R, IN-6]
Rep. Adam Putnam [R, FL-12]
Rep. Mark Souder [R, IN-3]
Rep. Zach Wamp [R, TN-3]


Democrats Voting 'Abstain'
Rep. Jim Costa [D, CA-20]
Rep. Artur Davis [D, AL-7]
Rep. Sam Farr [D, CA-17]
Rep. John Garamendi [D, CA-10]
Rep. John Hall [D, NY-19]
Rep. Maurice Hinchey [D, NY-22]
Rep. Tim Holden [D, PA-17]
Rep. Stephen Lynch [D, MA-9]


I'd just LOVE to know the reasoning for these abstentions. Some of them must be "not present" votes, like Souder, but which ones?

Merkin For The Weekend: PJ_the_Barbarian: Dr Jack Badofsky: DistendedPendulusFrenulum: RobertBruce: Why would funding this have been a proper function of the federal government?

... I am guessing the GOP wants to see India and China pull ahead of us in that respect

.

Actually, unions would prefer to see Eastern nations pull ahead, since their utter refusal to take pay cuts in any way, shape, or form will continue to force labor out of the U.S. where it is cheaper so you can still buy your toaster for $12.99, and not $129.99

Union membership is too low for them to really be good scapegoats for the economy at large.

Unions and the Labor Movement are the best things that ever happened to this country. They are the reason we have (had) a strong middle class, they are the reasons that none of us had to go to work in factories at nine years old, they are the reasons that our workplaces have to be safe, they are the reasons that we have protections in case we do get injured at work, etc, etc.

Ahahahabullshiat.

Unions are a monopoly seller of labor, as prone to abusing market power as any other monopoly, and are justified in any scenario when buyers of labor have market power, but not outside of that case.

NannyStatePark: "Did you ever go shopping with a kid and have to tell them "No, we don't have enough money to buy everything you want."

It's a bit more like deciding not to attend college because you're poor, and you're wary of taking on loans. Or a would-be small business owner, upon discovering that you'll have to spend a great deal out of pocket to lease a site for the shop you had planned, deciding that you're better off working retail/food service/call centers for the rest of your life.

Good. It is not like science has ever done anything for anyone!

:-D

PJ_the_Barbarian: Merkin For The Weekend: PJ_the_Barbarian: Dr Jack Badofsky: DistendedPendulusFrenulum: RobertBruce: Why would funding this have been a proper function of the federal government?

... I am guessing the GOP wants to see India and China pull ahead of us in that respect

.

Actually, unions would prefer to see Eastern nations pull ahead, since their utter refusal to take pay cuts in any way, shape, or form will continue to force labor out of the U.S. where it is cheaper so you can still buy your toaster for $12.99, and not $129.99

Union membership is too low for them to really be good scapegoats for the economy at large.

Unions and the Labor Movement are the best things that ever happened to this country. They are the reason we have (had) a strong middle class, they are the reasons that none of us had to go to work in factories at nine years old, they are the reasons that our workplaces have to be safe, they are the reasons that we have protections in case we do get injured at work, etc, etc.

Ahahahabullshiat.

Unions are a monopoly seller of labor, as prone to abusing market power as any other monopoly, and are justified in any scenario when buyers of labor have market power, but not outside of that case.

I agree that the AFL-CIO is too big and too corrupt, and could stand to be split up. However, I don't think that the baby should be thrown out with the bath water. Just because labor unions are far from perfect doesn't mean that the alternative (no labor unions) is better.

meat0918: RobertBruce: Why would funding this have been a proper function of the federal government?

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

Powers of Congress (new window)

You shut up with your stupid "facts!"

/take back the Merika I love!

loonatic112358: which means when the whole things flopped the other way, more of the same friggin bullshiat

Actually, no. When this bill's predecessor went through Congress in 2007, the Senate vote was unanimous in it's favor, and it had a huge majority with both parties in the House.

You can't keep borrowing money to pay for stuff forever.

/our debt-ridden government is spending enough on science already
//want more? Donate to a foundation.
///scientist.

Fark It: The Bush administration is responsible for around 80% of that debt. You can't ignore one guy racking up huge bills on expensive vacations to exotic countries, buying lavish presents for his country club buddies, and giving money away to pharmaceutical companies only to criticize the next guy for buying groceries.

Well there ya go, the party of "personal responsibility" refusing to acknowledge responsibility for anything they've done.

Tourney3p0: RockIsDead: If you Libs love logic so much whyTF don't you start USING IT!

BURN~! And if they like apples so much, whyTF don't they start EATING THEM?

No more apples in the vending machine please.

Knee jerk reaction is knee jerky.

Merkin For The Weekend: PJ_the_Barbarian: Merkin For The Weekend: PJ_the_Barbarian: Dr Jack Badofsky: DistendedPendulusFrenulum: RobertBruce: Why would funding this have been a proper function of the federal government?

... I am guessing the GOP wants to see India and China pull ahead of us in that respect

.

Actually, unions would prefer to see Eastern nations pull ahead, since their utter refusal to take pay cuts in any way, shape, or form will continue to force labor out of the U.S. where it is cheaper so you can still buy your toaster for $12.99, and not $129.99

Union membership is too low for them to really be good scapegoats for the economy at large.

Unions and the Labor Movement are the best things that ever happened to this country. They are the reason we have (had) a strong middle class, they are the reasons that none of us had to go to work in factories at nine years old, they are the reasons that our workplaces have to be safe, they are the reasons that we have protections in case we do get injured at work, etc, etc.

Ahahahabullshiat.

Unions are a monopoly seller of labor, as prone to abusing market power as any other monopoly, and are justified in any scenario when buyers of labor have market power, but not outside of that case.

I agree that the AFL-CIO is too big and too corrupt, and could stand to be split up. However, I don't think that the baby should be thrown out with the bath water. Just because labor unions are far from perfect doesn't mean that the alternative (no labor unions) is better.

Certainly and I apologize for the expletive. Company towns needed unions. Government employees probably need a union. Etc.

But I can imagine a world where auto workers still have it pretty good, and the big 3 are still world class. And I think it's fair to say that the creation of a serious us vs. them, blues vs. whites, stick it to 'em because they're all thieves sitting on piles of money attitude helped to prevent that.

Wololo:

You can't stay in power if 90% of the population sees you do something stupid right before they walk into a voting booth.

You're seriously overestimating the intelligence of the Republican voter base.

John Paul Jones: I swear to God, the GOP won't stop until we're back to this

You're strangely clairvoyant.

Maybe you're a WITCH!