Am I the only one who's given up pirating music? Most of the music I want is available through iTunes or Amazon and if it isn't I just don't buy it.

I think they'd be able to virtually eliminate movie piracy if they just made an online store that sold movies for a low price, without trailers or copyright notices or other shiat, that worked in a myriad of devices.

In other news, Mick Jagger is an idiot who doesn't realize that the record companies loaned him hundreds of thousands of dollars to record and promote those records, then were paid back as the records sold (if they did.)

Remember those contracts you signed, Mick? No, I didn't think you would.

SphericalTime: Kyosuke: In other news, Mick Jagger is an idiot who doesn't realize that the record companies loaned him hundreds of thousands of dollars to record and promote those records, then were paid back as the records sold (if they did.)

Remember those contracts you signed, Mick? No, I didn't think you would.

Weirdly, authors are also "loaned" money by publishing companies to produce books and yet the authors still usually get paid for the books that they sell.

Very strange how music producers can't do the same.

Books aren't created in $2k/hr recording studios by people with nothing but time on their hands.

thomps: SphericalTime: thomps: Kyosuke: SphericalTime: Kyosuke: In other news, Mick Jagger is an idiot who doesn't realize that the record companies loaned him hundreds of thousands of dollars to record and promote those records, then were paid back as the records sold (if they did.)

Remember those contracts you signed, Mick? No, I didn't think you would.

Weirdly, authors are also "loaned" money by publishing companies to produce books and yet the authors still usually get paid for the books that they sell.

Very strange how music producers can't do the same.

Books aren't created in $2k/hr recording studios by people with nothing but time on their hands.

believe it or not, most books are heavily edited and proofread by professionals at publishing houses before being released for public consumption.

And you'd be surprised how many of those professionals copyedit in $2,000/hr recording studios. Just saying.

i assumed your point was that the label pays upfront costs in order to produce the album. but you're right, i bet the publishing houses also don't hire sound engineers.

Or producers, or rental instruments, or caterers, etc, etc...

SphericalTime: thomps: SphericalTime: thomps: Kyosuke: SphericalTime: Kyosuke: In other news, Mick Jagger is an idiot who doesn't realize that the record companies loaned him hundreds of thousands of dollars to record and promote those records, then were paid back as the records sold (if they did.)

Remember those contracts you signed, Mick? No, I didn't think you would.

Weirdly, authors are also "loaned" money by publishing companies to produce books and yet the authors still usually get paid for the books that they sell.

Very strange how music producers can't do the same.

Books aren't created in $2k/hr recording studios by people with nothing but time on their hands.

believe it or not, most books are heavily edited and proofread by professionals at publishing houses before being released for public consumption.

And you'd be surprised how many of those professionals copyedit in $2,000/hr recording studios. Just saying.

i assumed your point was that the label pays upfront costs in order to produce the album. but you're right, i bet the publishing houses also don't hire sound engineers.

Sorry, I was just trying to be funny. I was making the point that both publishers and labels pay the upfront costs of producing the product and yet publishers seem to have a much better rate of paying the authors back.

And, I'm currently temping for a publisher that does indeed hire sound engineers/pay for recording studios: they produce books on tape and book & CD kids book combos.

The difference in costs between making books on tape and between recording and mixing music are HUGE. Like more than a 100:1 difference.

The Icelander: I think they'd be able to virtually eliminate movie piracy if they just made an online store that sold movies for a low price, without trailers or copyright notices or other shiat, that worked in a myriad of devices.

I actually enjoy trailers. I don't like the damn Coke commercials before a movie, but the actual movie trailers are always fun and you get to gauge your tastes against whomever you are with by simply saying at the end "Maybe", "Yup", or "fark No".

And really copy-write notices are only up for what, 5-10 seconds?

The Icelander: Am I the only one who's given up pirating music? Most of the music I want is available through iTunes or Amazon and if it isn't I just don't buy it.

I think they'd be able to virtually eliminate movie piracy if they just made an online store that sold movies for a low price, without trailers or copyright notices or other shiat, that worked in a myriad of devices. already on my hard drive.
FTFY.

Take 'em all, put 'em up against a wall and shoot 'em.

/not obscure
//but completely farking awesome

You know who really didn't make any money off of Stones albums? Mick Taylor, who played on their BEST albums. Unfortunately, the two members of the Stones who received most of the writing credits didn't want to complicate things with a second Mick getting songwriting credits.

Eat a hot bowl of dick, Mick (Jagger, not Taylor).

Records make artists very little money... it's touring that brings in the big bucks.

Charge $30-$80 (depending on local, popularity of the artist, and how good the seat is) per seat multiply times a couple thousand per show times up to 200 shows a year and it's a TON of money.

I've heard this complaint before. Do recording artists make most of their money from touring or something? Anyone know what the split is between money they make from record sales and money they make from live performances?

jake3988: Records make artists very little money... it's touring that brings in the big bucks.

Charge $30-$80 (depending on local, popularity of the artist, and how good the seat is) per seat multiply times a couple thousand per show times up to 200 shows a year and it's a TON of money.

Yup, albums are just advertisements for the live shows. Last big concert I went to was Muse and Silversum Pickups. Probably about 10k people there, my cheap tickets were about 45 bucks.

Next one I'm going to should be smaller since it's She and Him at the Atlanta Botanical Gardens, but that will still be $32.50 a ticket.

I have a long list of record companies that owe our company money and don't pay. They have really become more-so in the recent year serious scumbags.

The Icelander: Am I the only one who's given up pirating music? Most of the music I want is available through iTunes or Amazon and if it isn't I just don't buy it.

I think they'd be able to virtually eliminate movie piracy if they just made an online store that sold movies for a low price, without trailers or copyright notices or other shiat, that worked in a myriad of devices.

That would most certainly work. People will often avoid committing a crime as long as there is a low priced legal option. The problem is that the movie companies want to restrict their products to $20 DVD discs and $30 blu- ray discs. This works as long as there is no alternative. They aren't interested in getting into a price war with piracy. They want to eliminate it or make it so costly that you are willing to pay 20-30 dollars for a plastic disc. Selling low cost digital copies of music would cut into their disc sales. They don't want to change their business model since it's so successful. It just doesn't occur to them that people are going to spend a specific amount of money on entertainment regardless of the format or that distribution cost of digital movies is dirt cheap.

Was he yelling this at a cloud?

David Lee Roth lays all of this out in his autobiography, Crazy from the Heat. There is a chapter called Business 101 where he explains how all these bands were totally ripped off, and why these famous bands that seemingly everyone bought records of are broke.

What it amounts to is people taking their percentages out of up-front money. The record company will front you $500,000, knowing full well you won't make it back, but your manager doesn't care, because he gets 10% off the top. The lawyer gets his 5%, and eventually, it turns out to be a 33% loan. The artist has to pay the record company back, but none of the lawyers or managers do.

If you look at bands that did NOT get taken by the record labels, for example Iron Maiden, it's because they had a manager (Ron Smallwood) that was completely dedicated to the band and looked out for their interests. How often do you think that really happens?

aside from a brief 25-year period -- "we didn't make any money
I thinks you did ok Mr Jagger

Kyosuke: Books aren't created in $2k/hr recording studios by people with nothing but time on their hands.

Neither are hit albums. A large number of recent hit albums have been recorded on Protools. Meanwhile the "big" recording studios that charged $2k/hour are shutting their doors.

Yet artists are still being told by their labels that their albums aren't recouping.

Kyosuke: Books aren't created in $2k/hr recording studios by people with nothing but time on their hands.

No, they're created by people who get up in the morning and write for several hours, then do the same thing, over and over, day-in, day-out. A lot of books have years of labor tied up in them.

On the other hand, the days of bands spending 3 months in a $2K/hr studio are waning. A decent home setup can be had for the cost of just a few of those hours.

To be fair, though, writers get screwed just as badly, and they don't have touring to fall back on.

Is this where I post that Steve Albini rant that I post in every "why the music industry sucks" thread? I think so.

Clickity (new window)

I work in the venue live music side of the industry, and pretty much every musician I've ever talked to thinks Albini is spot on. Unless, they got some crazy sweetheart deal because of nepotism.

spidermann: CowboyNinjaD: I've heard this complaint before. Do recording artists make most of their money from touring or something? Anyone know what the split is between money they make from record sales and money they make from live performances?

Touring brings in the most income. Alice Cooper makes his money from touring because, unfortunately, his album sales pretty much suck outside the diehard fans.

Yet each year he does a tour of the US, Europe, Oz, and a few other places. Then every two years like clockwork he puts out another album.

His net worth is amazing.

Really people? So many have already posted "The artists don't make money from record sales." While it's true they may not get DIRECT money from sales, how did they get the following to fill up the huge arenas and thus actually make their mega-millions? Selling albums and promoting their songs. And...traditionally, I bet you can guess who puts up the money for that...

That being said, today's world doesn't require quite the financial backing to promote music any more, as we have so many cheap venues of getting music out there. That's what has the record industry worried, and why the bands are distancing themselves from them more and more. Just 5 or 10 years ago, they were absolutely crucial to a bands success...now...notsomuch...

And, who is the biggest promoter to selling records?

/Didn't think it was that hard of a problem to work out....

FarkGrudge: Really people? So many have already posted "The artists don't make money from record sales." While it's true they may not get DIRECT money from sales, how did they get the following to fill up the huge arenas and thus actually make their mega-millions? Selling albums and promoting their songs. And...traditionally, I bet you can guess who puts up the money for that...

That being said, today's world doesn't require quite the financial backing to promote music any more, as we have so many cheap venues of getting music out there. That's what has the record industry worried, and why the bands are distancing themselves from them more and more. Just 5 or 10 years ago, they were absolutely crucial to a bands success...now...notsomuch...

And, who is the biggest promoter to selling records?

/Didn't think it was that hard of a problem to work out....


FTF myself...

The other thing, in Mick Jagger's case, is what he said only applies to everything the Stones did before 1971. From Sticky Finger on, their albums have been put out on their own label, and they've made huge deals with record labels (I think the last one was $150 million from Virgin) to distribute the Stones catalog.

Kyosuke: Books aren't created in $2k/hr recording studios by people with nothing but time on their hands.

The problem comes about when the $2k/hr recording studio is owned by the record label. And the band is required to use that studio in their contract. Even if another studio charges $1k/hr.

owning music is like so 2008

The Icelander: I think they'd be able to virtually eliminate movie piracy if they just made an online store that sold movies for a low price, without trailers or copyright notices or other shiat, that worked in a myriad of devices.

This would work, except that the companies in question just won't acccept lower price points. They still think a bare-bones DVD with no special features should be worth $19.99.

The Icelander: I think they'd be able to virtually eliminate movie piracy if they just made an online store that sold movies for a low price, without trailers or copyright notices or other shiat, that worked in a myriad of devices.

THIS

I was watching Die Hard the other night on TV and I'd missed the first 20 minutes or so. I don't have the DVD and if I could have bought something that I could have played straight through my TV, something that I owned with similar rights to what Amazon MP3 sells me, then I'd have slapped down £4-5 right there (about $5-6).

My rules for a movie store are as follows:-

1. It must play without needing a server to hook up to.
2. It must play on anything. When all my hardware goes to the grave, I want it to play on the new shiny stuff. It doesn't have to play any better than it did before, I'll pay for extra resolution, 3d refinements or whatever.
3. No non-skippable ads or copyright notices. Stop it. We've paid for this shiat. Why do we get the copyright notices and piracy warnings that the pirates don't?
4. You will not charge more than it costs for me to buy a DVD of the movie. Despite the utility value of having a movie downloaded straight away, you're just making me feel ripped off.
5. I don't have to install a big, ugly-ass app like iTunes just to search and download farking movies.

I seem to remember the Dixie Chicks making no money from cd sales, then they sued sony for the screw job record contract. They got millions in return.

Kyosuke: Or producers, or rental instruments, or caterers, etc, etc...


http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/recording-contract2.htm


So the label keeps 80-90% of the wholesale price, withholds 25% for a packaging charge, and recoups expenses for producing, promoting, and touring from the royalties owed the artist. They also do lovely things like give away free product and vary prices by sales channels all of which reduce the royalty rate.

All the while the retailer is marking up prices by 80% or more.

Want to try justifying the cost structure of the music industry again?

JK47: Want to try justifying the cost structure of the music industry again?

How about this: If it didn't work for ALL involved in some way, it wouldn't exist.

If I really like an artist, I will buy their CDs. I will even try my best to buy them new. But I wish the artists that I like would sell them from their own websites so they can get a bigger piece of the cash I am laying down. I HATE the RIAA and don't want to put any money in their greasy, greedy, music lover sueing paws.

ZeroCorpse: (You might also find out that she's a lot smarter than you believed her to be.)

That doesn't really surprise me. Plenty of smart people do too many drugs and let their lives come off the rails. That said, Courtney Love is still a disgusting person.

felixecho: If I really like an artist, I will buy their CDs. I will even try my best to buy them new. But I wish the artists that I like would sell them from their own websites so they can get a bigger piece of the cash I am laying down. I HATE the RIAA and don't want to put any money in their greasy, greedy, music lover sueing paws.

If you want them to get some money see them live or flat out paypal them the cash.

Buying the CD will net them less than 50 cents if they get anything at all. The record companies need to die.

farkeruk: 3. No non-skippable ads or copyright notices. Stop it. We've paid for this shiat. Why do we get the copyright notices and piracy warnings that the pirates don't?

That's what kills me. Blu-Ray is especially bad for this. You get unskippable content on the front end. Heaven forbid you accidentally hit the stop button and most Blu-Ray discs make you sit through all of that again. Oddly enough the one company that consistently lets you skip that crap is Disney.

Kyosuke: How about this: If it didn't work for ALL involved in some way, it wouldn't exist.

Just like slavery, right?

Brew the coffee in the bucket
double straight man and banjo
if you don't got the snake oil
Buster, you don't got a show
who puts the do-re-me in our pockets
keeps the party going on?
it's the man who sells the potion
I'm just the one that sings the song

Kyosuke: JK47: Want to try justifying the cost structure of the music industry again?

How about this: If it didn't work for ALL involved in some way, it wouldn't exist.

What wouldn't exist?

thomps: The Icelander: Am I the only one who's given up pirating music? Most of the music I want is available through iTunes or Amazon and if it isn't I just don't buy it.

I think they'd be able to virtually eliminate movie piracy if they just made an online store that sold movies for a low price, without trailers or copyright notices or other shiat, that worked in a myriad of devices.

i'm in the same boat; sometimes co-workers will kick an album over to me, but for the most part, it's just so much more convenient to hit itunes rather than search around for a high-quality torrent.

I've found that with Pandora and similar, I don't feel a need to own much anymore. Although, every so often, I'll BT some new stuff. Paying for albums just doesn't work for me anymore. My entertainment budget is spent elsewhere, and I don't think I'll ever budget for albums again. I would pay for a music service if it were good, but it would need to be better than the free pandora, last.fm, or slacker.

Record companies steal from their Artists?

why i just can't believe something like that. record companies have Principles, you know.