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(Some Guy)   It turns out that BP had the wrong diagrams for the BOP they were using. Well, trying to use   (mcclatchydc.com ) divider line
    More: Fail, Henry Waxman, Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, National Laboratory, oversight, Bart Stupak, Deepwater Horizon, Bobby Jindal, Transocean  
•       •       •

18424 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 May 2010 at 4:13 PM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-05-13 06:02:19 PM  

Martian_Astronomer: As an engineer, this does not surprise me in the slightest.


As someone who had them as a client in the engineering field I'm also not surprised... I could tell stories..

Ok.. just one:

Above ground pipeline had rust along the bottom of it (a result of rain/condensation). When the rust started to get so bad that pin-sized holes started to form, they cut the section of pipe, rotated it 180 degrees, and re-welded it in place. Holes in the top = no leaks, and no costly replacement.
 
2010-05-13 06:06:35 PM  
"Sound and fury signifying nothing"
There'll be some fines, someone will be fired, some poor clown will be vilified. BP will whine about the cost and then go bankrupt leaving the mess for the Fed.
There'll be some posturing by both business and the Fed.
Business will complain about the implementation of meaningless regulations, the price of fuel will rise.
Louisiana will be declared a disaster area - again. The governor will rail about the massive inefficiency of the fed to implement the necessary efforts to clean up the shoreline and wildlife.
Shrimpers will go out of business and blame the Fed.
BP will continue to make money as will Transocean and Halliburton will also continue to make cash. Share holders will be told there is no money for dividends because of the cost of the clean up and new federal regulations.
Yeah I'm old and seen this before - IOW's nothin new here move along.
No, I'm not anti business. I'm just tired of limp-wristed regulations and corporate lawyers. I'm tired of business willing to take the cash but not the responsibility.

Not in favor of capital punishment but, it's fun to think about. I mean, the Chinese executed the company owner that was putting Melamine in milk . . . How many people died on this rig? Something to ponder.
 
2010-05-13 06:06:44 PM  

J_Marshall: Martian_Astronomer: As an engineer, this does not surprise me in the slightest.

As someone who had them as a client in the engineering field I'm also not surprised... I could tell stories..

Ok.. just one:

Above ground pipeline had rust along the bottom of it (a result of rain/condensation). When the rust started to get so bad that pin-sized holes started to form, they cut the section of pipe, rotated it 180 degrees, and re-welded it in place. Holes in the top = no leaks, and no costly replacement.


as someone in Houston, why does this not surprise me
 
2010-05-13 06:08:07 PM  

my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: What if they lowered a giant metal spike that gradually tapers wider into the blown pipe, as long as it is heavy enough to overcome the flow upward, wouldn't that seal the pipe? You could probably even do a small controlled explosion to drive it further into the hole once it goes as far as gravity will take it. Like driving a pile.

Give the round hole the round peg, or something...


Don't think they can do that due to the pressure involved. But the article talks about a pipe version of that which wouldn't face as much pressure.
 
2010-05-13 06:10:23 PM  
There are two types of mechanical problems:

1) Something won't move and it should.
2) Something moves and it shouldn't.

In case 1, you apply WD-40. Obviously, this is not a case 1 situation. If it were, the problem would be self-correcting.

No, what we have here is case 2. Oil is flowing and it should not flow. For all problems involving unwanted motion, duct tape is the solution.

Therefore, if the problem is not solved yet, it is only because no one has tried duct tape yet.

QED
 
2010-05-13 06:14:40 PM  

thurstonxhowell: There are two types of mechanical problems:

1) Something won't move and it should.
2) Something moves and it shouldn't.

In case 1, you apply WD-40. Obviously, this is not a case 1 situation. If it were, the problem would be self-correcting.

No, what we have here is case 2. Oil is flowing and it should not flow. For all problems involving unwanted motion, duct tape is the solution.

Therefore, if the problem is not solved yet, it is only because no one has tried duct tape yet.

QED


except duct tape won't adhere underwater
 
2010-05-13 06:18:41 PM  

loonatic112358: thurstonxhowell: There are two types of mechanical problems:

1) Something won't move and it should.
2) Something moves and it shouldn't.

In case 1, you apply WD-40. Obviously, this is not a case 1 situation. If it were, the problem would be self-correcting.

No, what we have here is case 2. Oil is flowing and it should not flow. For all problems involving unwanted motion, duct tape is the solution.

Therefore, if the problem is not solved yet, it is only because no one has tried duct tape yet.

QED

except duct tape won't adhere underwater


Try harder. Maybe if you wrap it around so it's sticking to itself. That's a good trick.
 
2010-05-13 06:24:33 PM  

JH3675: But, I still say that unless specific laws or regulations have been broken no one should go to jail.


The regulations are likely so lax that there aren't laws to punish those responsible. If you or I used tangerine ducked taped to our bumper to replace a trailer hitch and our boat or whatever goes careening into a school full of children you can be SURE we would be held accountable for our outright criminal negligence. In my mind this is far worse but yeah, because it's big oil it's doubtful any one will be punished appropriately. The government should seize all profits from the oil industry and start funding ACTUAL sustainable energy solutions. This bullsh*t has gone on long enough.
 
2010-05-13 06:26:41 PM  

MorePeasPlease: Oh, good. You guys found each other again.


CygnusDarius: It's the fight that keeps on giving.


i21.photobucket.com

 
2010-05-13 06:28:23 PM  

Big Sis' Secret Unit: I thought this level of competence only existed in government. Well, I guess you do learn something new every day.


The government would have had multiple levels of safety controls and standardized procedures to follow. They would have had a traceable maintenance plan and service records, along with training requirements for any piece of heavy equipment. OSHA would have overseen the whole thing.

This would have been derided by you as a perfect example of government bureaucracy and inefficiency.

The truth is, this level of incompetence is far more likely to arise in a marketplace than it is in a regulated environment.
 
2010-05-13 06:33:52 PM  
www.theforce.net

An analysis of the schematics provided by BP has uncovered a WEAKNESS in the blowout preventer...

/just need a small, one man submarine
//and Schwartz
 
2010-05-13 06:34:10 PM  
1.bp.blogspot.com

All right now, for all you boppers out there in the big city, all you street people with an ear for the action, I've been asked to relay a request from the Grammercy Riffs. It's a special for the Warriors, that real live bunch from Coney, and I do mean the Warriors. Here's a hit with them in mind.

/Can you dig it?
 
2010-05-13 06:34:22 PM  

loonatic112358: thurstonxhowell: There are two types of mechanical problems:

1) Something won't move and it should.
2) Something moves and it shouldn't.

In case 1, you apply WD-40. Obviously, this is not a case 1 situation. If it were, the problem would be self-correcting.

No, what we have here is case 2. Oil is flowing and it should not flow. For all problems involving unwanted motion, duct tape is the solution.

Therefore, if the problem is not solved yet, it is only because no one has tried duct tape yet.

QED

except duct tape won't adhere underwater



Gaffers tape might do it.
(pops)

I know a 65 Impala convertible that had its top made out of canvas and brown gaffers tape. Was driven for years like that, and it actually kept the rain out pretty well.


/it got replaced eventually
 
2010-05-13 06:34:36 PM  

Rent Party: Big Sis' Secret Unit: I thought this level of competence only existed in government. Well, I guess you do learn something new every day.

The government would have had multiple levels of safety controls and standardized procedures to follow. They would have had a traceable maintenance plan and service records, along with training requirements for any piece of heavy equipment. OSHA would have overseen the whole thing.

This would have been derided by you as a perfect example of government bureaucracy and inefficiency.

The truth is, this level of incompetence is far more likely to arise in a marketplace than it is in a regulated environment.


Ummmm......most offshore facilities have this.
 
2010-05-13 06:36:19 PM  

Contrabulous Flabtraption: WASHINGTON - In the days after an oil well spun out of control in the Gulf of Mexico...

Journalism fail


AND DRILLED TO THE CENTER OF THE EARTH!!!!
 
2010-05-13 06:36:36 PM  

jmadisonbiii: "'This catastrophe appears to have been caused by a calamitous series of equipment and operational failures' said Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif."

Is there anything he can't do?


I dunno... maybe stop making piggy faces on the front window of the 7-11?
 
2010-05-13 06:37:12 PM  
"The only way to reduce our countrys dependance on foriegn oil is to drill and produce more of our own in our own waters."

Could you explain to me exactly how having a foreign corporation (British Petroleum) extract oil in American waters reduces "our countrys dependance on foreign oil"?

The oil, once extracted, would be owned by a foreign corporation, sold on the world market, and require sending American dollars overseas to purchase it. How is this not foreign oil?



EPIC WIN from the news story comments
 
2010-05-13 06:37:28 PM  
Also...

www.fashionbubbles.com

And, did someone say Hale-Bopp?

www.unexplainedstuff.com

No? Ok, nevermind.
 
2010-05-13 06:37:58 PM  

thurstonxhowell: loonatic112358: thurstonxhowell: There are two types of mechanical problems:

1) Something won't move and it should.
2) Something moves and it shouldn't.

In case 1, you apply WD-40. Obviously, this is not a case 1 situation. If it were, the problem would be self-correcting.

No, what we have here is case 2. Oil is flowing and it should not flow. For all problems involving unwanted motion, duct tape is the solution.

Therefore, if the problem is not solved yet, it is only because no one has tried duct tape yet.

QED

except duct tape won't adhere underwater

Try harder. Maybe if you wrap it around so it's sticking to itself. That's a good trick.


The really sad part is that this idea is actually BETTER than their golf ball and garbage stuffing approach.
 
2010-05-13 06:40:03 PM  

Rent Party: The government would have had multiple levels of safety controls and standardized procedures to follow. They would have had a traceable maintenance plan and service records, along with training requirements for any piece of heavy equipment. OSHA would have overseen the whole thing.

This would have been derided by you as a perfect example of government bureaucracy and inefficiency.

The truth is, this level of incompetence is far more likely to arise in a marketplace than it is in a regulated environment.


BP's safety requirements make OSHA look like it belongs in Somalia.
 
2010-05-13 06:41:40 PM  

globalwarmingpraiser: Rent Party: Big Sis' Secret Unit: I thought this level of competence only existed in government. Well, I guess you do learn something new every day.

The government would have had multiple levels of safety controls and standardized procedures to follow. They would have had a traceable maintenance plan and service records, along with training requirements for any piece of heavy equipment. OSHA would have overseen the whole thing.

This would have been derided by you as a perfect example of government bureaucracy and inefficiency.

The truth is, this level of incompetence is far more likely to arise in a marketplace than it is in a regulated environment.

Ummmm......most offshore facilities have this.


Any work environment is supposed to have them, but only because THE GOVERNMENT MAKES THEM. Most work environments don't follow them. They are a cost center. This is why you see this kind of crap in the marketplace far more than you see it in government run facilities. The government would have actually followed those procedures, rather than having them ignored in a binder on a shelf in the HR office.

See: Coal mining disaster for further reference on this topic.
If you do not follow them, they effectively don't exist.
 
2010-05-13 06:42:40 PM  

mynameist: Rent Party: The government would have had multiple levels of safety controls and standardized procedures to follow. They would have had a traceable maintenance plan and service records, along with training requirements for any piece of heavy equipment. OSHA would have overseen the whole thing.

This would have been derided by you as a perfect example of government bureaucracy and inefficiency.

The truth is, this level of incompetence is far more likely to arise in a marketplace than it is in a regulated environment.

BP's safety requirements make OSHA look like it belongs in Somalia.


BPs safety record disagrees with you.
 
2010-05-13 06:42:50 PM  

globalwarmingpraiser:

Ummmm......most offshore facilities have this.


Actually, they don't. This latest spill is a prime example. They regularly lie about documentation, process and procedure, and just hope for the best outcome. When a farkup like this spill happens, everyone scrambles to HIDE any paperwork they DO have, knowing full well that it would prove just how lackadaisical they really are. They cut corners on every shift, with an eye towards a substantial cash bonus for finishing early or even on schedule.

Money corrupts everything. And this well would have been very lucrative.

If you really believe these operations work to the letter of the law, and comply with all inspections and engineering requirements, you are a seriously deluded individual.
 
2010-05-13 06:45:41 PM  
I'm still wondering, from the previous thread, what happens a month from now when the first hurricane plows through that area and starts dumping contaminated water all over the southeast US. They're still saying it'll be about two months, right? That puts us right into hurricane season.

Thanks for scaring the bejesus out of me. I already hate/fear hurricane season. Now, I really want to spend the summer in a fallout shelter. (But not a vault. Those places make you crazy.)

/lives in Florida
 
kab
2010-05-13 06:47:40 PM  
Wrong BoP? They should have rolled greed instead of d/e, IMO.

/can't believe no one went here yet
 
2010-05-13 06:49:17 PM  

Deathfrogg: globalwarmingpraiser:

Ummmm......most offshore facilities have this.

Actually, they don't. This latest spill is a prime example. They regularly lie about documentation, process and procedure, and just hope for the best outcome. When a farkup like this spill happens, everyone scrambles to HIDE any paperwork they DO have, knowing full well that it would prove just how lackadaisical they really are. They cut corners on every shift, with an eye towards a substantial cash bonus for finishing early or even on schedule.

Money corrupts everything. And this well would have been very lucrative.

If you really believe these operations work to the letter of the law, and comply with all inspections and engineering requirements, you are a seriously deluded individual.


And just because you're going to get a [citation needed]

For BP, a History of Spills and Safety Lapses (new window)

You got your free market in my Gulf of Mexico!
 
2010-05-13 06:51:07 PM  
They should just DE roll if no one wants it. Otherwise, greed roll.

/wait, what?
 
2010-05-13 06:52:33 PM  

Rent Party: mynameist: Rent Party: The government would have had multiple levels of safety controls and standardized procedures to follow. They would have had a traceable maintenance plan and service records, along with training requirements for any piece of heavy equipment. OSHA would have overseen the whole thing.

This would have been derided by you as a perfect example of government bureaucracy and inefficiency.

The truth is, this level of incompetence is far more likely to arise in a marketplace than it is in a regulated environment.

BP's safety requirements make OSHA look like it belongs in Somalia.

BPs safety record disagrees with you.


I never said their policies guarantee results. In fact, I'm sure a few open the doors for unforeseen risks by taking contractors away form their standard practices (OSHA minimums). It is incorrect to say that BP doesn't put in far more effort than what is required by law to protect its workers and contractors.
 
2010-05-13 06:55:43 PM  

Deathfrogg: They cut corners on every shift, with an eye towards a substantial cash bonus for finishing early or even on schedule.


I have never felt any pressure to cut corners or speed up anything at all while working under BP. In fact, the only place I have ever felt anything like that is under small operators in West Texas.
 
2010-05-13 06:55:44 PM  
TFA says that Transocean, the company that built the DEEP SEA UNDERWATER oil well is from a landlocked mountain-filled country.

/yeah yeah, I know about the America's cup.
 
2010-05-13 06:56:10 PM  

Deathfrogg: globalwarmingpraiser:

Ummmm......most offshore facilities have this.

Actually, they don't. This latest spill is a prime example. They regularly lie about documentation, process and procedure, and just hope for the best outcome. When a farkup like this spill happens, everyone scrambles to HIDE any paperwork they DO have, knowing full well that it would prove just how lackadaisical they really are. They cut corners on every shift, with an eye towards a substantial cash bonus for finishing early or even on schedule.

Money corrupts everything. And this well would have been very lucrative.

If you really believe these operations work to the letter of the law, and comply with all inspections and engineering requirements, you are a seriously deluded individual.


You should go through an MMS inspection.
 
2010-05-13 06:57:17 PM  

mynameist: Rent Party: mynameist: Rent Party: The government would have had multiple levels of safety controls and standardized procedures to follow. They would have had a traceable maintenance plan and service records, along with training requirements for any piece of heavy equipment. OSHA would have overseen the whole thing.

This would have been derided by you as a perfect example of government bureaucracy and inefficiency.

The truth is, this level of incompetence is far more likely to arise in a marketplace than it is in a regulated environment.

BP's safety requirements make OSHA look like it belongs in Somalia.

BPs safety record disagrees with you.

I never said their policies guarantee results. In fact, I'm sure a few open the doors for unforeseen risks by taking contractors away form their standard practices (OSHA minimums). It is incorrect to say that BP doesn't put in far more effort than what is required by law to protect its workers and contractors.


BP has the worst safety record of all the oil companies. 700 infractions at one refinery in Texas a few years ago. That refinery eventually exploded and killed 15 people.

Here, read this. Educate yourself. Then come and tell me how safety conscious BP is. They hired their own review board to "investigate" the issue, and even their conclusion is the put profit over safety.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/09/business/09bp.html?hp
 
2010-05-13 06:57:55 PM  
Show me all the blueprints, show me all the blueprints, show me all the blueprints

images.movieplayer.it

/the blueprints
//show me
///and come in with the milk
 
2010-05-13 07:03:15 PM  
Rent Party:

And just because you're going to get a [citation needed]

For BP, a History of Spills and Safety Lapses (new window)

You got your free market in my Gulf of Mexico!



Thank you. I did neglect that didn't I.

Why are there people defending the moneymen on this? Every corporate lawyer in the world needs to be fed into one of these. (pops)

BP, Halliburton and Transocean need to be completely dismantled over this. fark them.
 
2010-05-13 07:08:30 PM  
Catastrophes like this are rarely the result of a single farkup. It's a lot of smaller farkups that fall like dominoes.
 
2010-05-13 07:08:56 PM  
wasn't this rig built by Hyundai? Don't those come with a 10 year warranty?
 
2010-05-13 07:10:39 PM  
Couldn't we have piled a bunch of crap on top of this thing by now? Is BP trying to single handedly ruin my vacation in NW florida next month?!!?!?!
 
2010-05-13 07:17:22 PM  

globalwarmingpraiser:
Trust me, if you are familiar with the of shore industry you are talking about this.


Hell, every engineer in the Mississippi Valley is talking about this

.
 
2010-05-13 07:17:54 PM  
/Still waiting on the ''On Deadly Ground'' preventer screenshots.....
 
2010-05-13 07:19:24 PM  

Rent Party: mynameist: Rent Party: The government would have had multiple levels of safety controls and standardized procedures to follow. They would have had a traceable maintenance plan and service records, along with training requirements for any piece of heavy equipment. OSHA would have overseen the whole thing.

This would have been derided by you as a perfect example of government bureaucracy and inefficiency.

The truth is, this level of incompetence is far more likely to arise in a marketplace than it is in a regulated environment.

BP's safety requirements make OSHA look like it belongs in Somalia.

BPs safety record disagrees with you.


Requirements only work if you follow them.
 
2010-05-13 07:22:05 PM  

ka1axy:
BPs safety record disagrees with you.

Requirements only work if you follow them.


Exactly. Requirements means that only the people who follow the requirements will be inconvenienced, therefore we need fewer requirements. I mean, the people who won't follow requirements won't listen anyway so they don't do any good. Also, government bad, corporations a-okay. Thank you.
 
2010-05-13 07:29:40 PM  

Rent Party: Big Sis' Secret Unit: I thought this level of competence only existed in government. Well, I guess you do learn something new every day.

The government would have had multiple levels of safety controls and standardized procedures to follow. They would have had a traceable maintenance plan and service records, along with training requirements for any piece of heavy equipment. OSHA would have overseen the whole thing.

This would have been derided by you as a perfect example of government bureaucracy and inefficiency.

The truth is, this level of incompetence is far more likely to arise in a marketplace than it is in a regulated environment.



Ahhh...I understand. You mean like past and present Government controls, procedures, and plans regarding levees, flood controls, etc. I stand corrected. Oh, and I almost forgot - the Interior Department's controls, procedures, and plans that were developed specifically to deal with a massive oil spill. These plans DO exist - I'm sure they'll implement them any day now.

/too easy
 
2010-05-13 07:29:43 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: I've been pitching my Really Awesome Petroleum Extractor to them for years. What am I doing wrong?


You only mentioned RAPE once.

/It must be that you don't like rape?
//Said it twice, right here
 
2010-05-13 07:38:32 PM  

Big Sis' Secret Unit: Rent Party: Big Sis' Secret Unit: I thought this level of competence only existed in government. Well, I guess you do learn something new every day.

The government would have had multiple levels of safety controls and standardized procedures to follow. They would have had a traceable maintenance plan and service records, along with training requirements for any piece of heavy equipment. OSHA would have overseen the whole thing.

This would have been derided by you as a perfect example of government bureaucracy and inefficiency.

The truth is, this level of incompetence is far more likely to arise in a marketplace than it is in a regulated environment.


Ahhh...I understand. You mean like past and present Government controls, procedures, and plans regarding levees, flood controls, etc. I stand corrected. Oh, and I almost forgot - the Interior Department's controls, procedures, and plans that were developed specifically to deal with a massive oil spill. These plans DO exist - I'm sure they'll implement them any day now.

/too easy


Exactly. When the Republicans are in charge and wreck government it proves that government doesn't work.
 
2010-05-13 07:42:38 PM  

jmadisonbiii: Is there anything he can't do?


Sneeze perpendicular to the floor?
 
2010-05-13 07:47:10 PM  
NPR is now reporting that scientific analysis of video of the undersea gusher (what little video has been released by BP, who are keeping as much to themselves as possible) shows that the 1000 bbl/day estimate BP initially mumbled, and then revised to 5000 bbl/day, is likely at least 20,000 bbl/day with one estimate showing 70,000 bbl/day.

/bbl
 
2010-05-13 07:47:43 PM  

globalwarmingpraiser: DistendedPendulusFrenulum: globalwarmingpraiser: And now BP can now sue Transocean. At any point someone could have used Stop Work Authority and shut down the entire job.

You know what was odd--the other night I was reading something at Rigzone, in which oilfield people were posting what they would have as a "to do" list for a cap and abandon. The consensus seemed to be that twenty hours after cementing (now discovered to be 16 1/2) was not enough time to carefully prepare the well.

People were posting their versions of a to-do list, including a very detailed one by some guy in Kuwait, when the refresh failed to load--the article was taken down.
.

Trust me, if you are familiar with the of shore industry you are talking about this. A little secret, several of your majors will have no problems as they already exceed what is required by MMS. Since I wasn't online earlier, there had been an increase in MMS visits in the Gulf prior to the Deepwater Horizon's incident. My bet it Transocean might be selling off a lt of equipment soon. Watch Hercules Offshore as well. They might decide to make the jump to deepwater.


I work on a drilling rig for Hercules Offshore so I got a real kick out of that reply.
 
2010-05-13 07:50:01 PM  

Big Sis' Secret Unit: Ahhh...I understand. You mean like past and present Government controls, procedures, and plans regarding levees, flood controls, etc. I stand corrected. Oh, and I almost forgot - the Interior Department's controls, procedures, and plans that were developed specifically to deal with a massive oil spill provide erotic massages to the oil industry.


FTFY.
 
2010-05-13 07:51:12 PM  

BuckTurgidson: Big Sis' Secret Unit: Ahhh...I understand. You mean like past and present Government controls, procedures, and plans regarding levees, flood controls, etc. I stand corrected. Oh, and I almost forgot - the Interior Department's controls, procedures, and plans that were developed specifically to deal with a massive oil spill provide erotic massages to the oil industry.

FTFY.


It's a happy ending all over the beaches!
 
2010-05-13 07:59:59 PM  
Taken from an article I read this morning: "In reality, oil companies and the government lack the technology to prevent the damage from a well gushing masses of oil"

I'm sure glad they gave 'em the go ahead in the first place, then!
 
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